Can we now admit that the Euros trolled the US good with chip cards? I mean seriously, they are so dogshit...

Can we now admit that the Euros trolled the US good with chip cards? I mean seriously, they are so dogshit, I still have to sign for my purchase, except I now have to stick my card in and wait some indeterminate amount of time between 5-30 seconds until the machine starts beeping loudly at me to remove my card. FFS cash is quicker now.

Meanwhile NFC via phones is quick but nobody anywhere takes NFC except a couple big box stores and it's an *if* it happens to be working at that time thing. Half the time you go to pay and the reader doesn't work and you look like a jackass.

Other urls found in this thread:

tsys.com/solutions-services/acquiring-services/resource-center/the-chip-signature-vs-chip-pin-debate-continues
cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/unattack.pdf
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Can we now admit that Sup Forums threads like this should fuck off back to Sup Forums where they belong?

>microprocessors contained in credit/debit cards causing problems because they're shit technology is a topic that is Sup Forums - random and not technology related
uh huh, yeah, okay.

I don't know what you're talking about, I live in Greece and over here we just push our card into the slot, it asks for our pin, and we're done
Recently, they introduced newer machines where you can just lightly tap your card on it and it works without a pin, but that is only for cheap stuff

Earlier in January during the sales I spent like 650 Euros on clothes in a single day without any hiccups

>FFS cash is quicker now.
>implying it ever wasn't

Don't blame euros for your inability to implement 10-year old technology right

In the US we used to swipe cards that we had taken out of our wallets while approaching or waiting in line and then had a receipt spit out 1-2 seconds later. Most stores waived signature or PIN entry for transactions under $25 meaning all you had to do was swipe, grab your shit, and go.

>I don't know what you're talking about, I live in Greece and over here we just push our card into the slot, it asks for our pin, and we're done
>Recently, they introduced newer machines where you can just lightly tap your card on it and it works without a pin, but that is only for cheap stuff

Exactly the same here. I don't understand how Americans can fuck something so simple.

After traveling in Europe for a week and using my card every day. I've determined that the US chips are broken or faulty

In Europe the chip is so fast it's literally less than 5 seconds every time. Just insert approve and pull

When I came back to the states all the chip readers take so much fucking longer for some reason even though I'm doing the same steps. I don't get it

I'm an American living in Switzerland. In Europe I use European cards and in the USA I use my USA cards. They all of chips. In Europe it always just works. Tap card to reader, enter pin if it asks, and no wait for it to dial in. Takes about 5 to 10 seconds overall.

In the USA it's always a clusterfuck. The cards have no pins for some reason. They only use it to confirm it's not a skimmed card. You usually have to sign. There's usual a 30 second or longer delay. About 50% of the time when you enter the card they tell you to swipe it instead, and the rest of the time you swipe it and the machine says to enter the card in the chip reader. It's a confusing mess.

>I don't understand how Americans can fuck something so simple.

The answer is contained somewhere within this very sentence...

nigger, magnetic bands are trash
they should ask you for a pin, that you enter
that is how we do things in Europe

If Americans didn't have chips before does that mean you swiped at the ATM? Instead of inserting you card? How did it work?

no we can't do that, gotta keep Sup Forums pure and clean without any normies, can't have them shitting up our desktop ricing threads and circlejerking about autistic bullshit that no one but us cares about instead of maybe talking about technology like a bunch of adults once in a while. wait, i'm sorry, i'm assuming you're all adults, when i know you're all fucking 12-20 year old idiots.

You dipped the card and either swiped at the ATM + entered pin or the ATM held it for the duration of the transaction anyways.

The problem is POS devices for chips have been in Europe longer. In the US most POS devices designed for chip readers are on a secondary garbage network because they're relatively new and businesses are cheap. Setting up an equal quality connection for a secondary POS device seems arbitrary for them. They'd rather use the main CC/debit site controller/network for standard cards, and push your chip reader to the back of the line in terms of bandwidth importance.

Works in my state™, ya dumb haoles.

Going back to cash here. The chipped card is that fucking annoying.

>I still have to sign
Why do you have to sign? We don't sign in Europe.

Wtf we insert, wait 20 seconds, wait for receipt, sign and then leave in the US. The chips make me want to kill myself.

There is litteraly nothing wrong with fucking 12-20 year old idiots

>we just push our card into the slot, it asks for our pin, and we're done

Portufag here. It's the same here.

>insert card
>dial pin
>done in 5 seconds

What's with americans and their money shenanigans? I hear them complaining about having to insert cards... isn't that the same shit as swiping?

The other day I learned they have to use to credit cards in order to be able to make loans, even though a credit card is already a load in itself. What the fuck is wrong on that side of the Atlantic? No one uses credit cards here, only debit cards.

spoken like a true poor person
everyone with any brains wants to use a high quality credit card for the reward bonuses, the only bonus from cash is germs on your hands

Debit card theft is a huge fucking problem. You can't jsut empty someone's bank account with a CC like you can with a debit because debit is instantaneous.

chip systems are getting better now. at first it was fucking horrible.

>In the USA it's always a clusterfuck. The cards have no pins for some reason. They only use it to confirm it's not a skimmed card. You usually have to sign. There's usual a 30 second or longer delay.
holy shit why are you lying?

>swipe card
>"sir it's chip"
>Insert chip
>Beep beep beep
>20 seconds pass
>please enter pin
>beep beep beep 10 sec pass
>please sign
>Beep beep beep
>Please remove card

Thanks Europe
Now I have 3 times as many steps to use my damn cards.

>chip
lel, get with the times, America

Britbong here

had chip and pin for the past 10 odd years and never had a single complaint with it .

NFC is even better, can get shit paid for quicker than cash. I haven't carried cash in about 5 years.

Can we agree that americucks are just retarded?

Where's the lie? My USA credit cards don't have pins. The ATM cards have pins but it's not smart to use ATM cards in stores in the USA because you have no protections. I almost always have to sign in the USA although usually you sign on an electronic screen. I usually draw a picture quickly instead of sign.

It's not a problem at all because you need a pin for it to work.

You're also not supposed to have more than 1000 or 2000$ in your account at a given time. Just enough for the daily expenses.

So ill admit the US handing of these chips is bad.
It took an executive order just to get us to switch over.

>America fucks up the implementation requiring to sign as well as a pin because muh fraud,
>have shitty banking infrastructure so It takes forever to register
>blame euros
really makes your synapses polarise

>credit card
ohhhhhhhhhhh
my bad.

I live in finland and wireless is standard pretty much everywhere, except atms. You dont even have to take the card out of you wallet, you just hold you wallet within 5 cm of the reader for 2 - 5 seconds and thats it. Only works for purchases under 25€ tho, otherwise you have to use a pin.

w..t..f

>2017
>complaining about chip and pin

Pentium 3's were cutting edge when chip and pin was introduced in the civilised world.

Where do you live? Congo?

I live in Spainstan and I make all my paymentss (Mall, Supermarket, Gas, etc.) contactless.
So yes. Maybe we trolled you a bit.

How the fuck do you ever have to wait for 30 seconds? That error does definitely not lie with chip cards.

t. uses them daily and literally never had an issue of any sort. The entire process takes 5 seconds or so, I'd estimate.
>Insert card
>Enter PIN
>Confirm transaction

How do americans manage to have trouble with this?

donde compras contactless, negro?

>Go to insert chip
>Fucking cardboard insert is sticking in the slot
>Sorry sir we don't have our chip set up yet
>Have to swipe.
ffs every store is different. Half have the chip and half still don't.

owning and paying off a credit cards shows you're not a deadbeat

How do you not get that?

Hopefully you corrected him on his gender assumption by using "sir".

They do it with everything too.

How the fuck do they not have a state sanctioned biometric ID yet? Relying on a fucking easily guessed or stolen SSN is ridiculous.

And that's not even mentioning the social security clusterfuck of idiocy behind that number.

Man, you guys must be in the stone age over there. Pretty much every where here has tap for debit and credit (you set your own purchase limit on your cards, above that you do chip & pin). Even NFC phone payments are starting to become fairly prevalent here.

>Most stores waived signature or PIN entry for transactions under $25
that never happened

contactless is the future

You fucking american plebs are just now moving to chips while we have wireless nfc payment.

Wait, signing? Why would you have to sign anything when using a plastic card? That sounds like a good way to make you queues go glacially slow.
Do you guys not just stick it in, enter the pin and take it out?

you know what also shows that you're not a deadbeat?
not having to take out loans daily.

one more time, to my beloved burgers:

CARD SECURITY 101
EU EDITION
>clerk asks for your card and id
>clerk checks the id corresponds to the card
>clerk asks you to put your credit card in the machine (reading the chip)
>machine asks you for a 4 digit pin
>payment done, you take your card out of the machine and you are out

INTERNET EDITION
>store asks for card info, after showing you the amount you have to pay
>you enter number, expiration date and 3 number code
>press ok
>you are redirected to your banks website, showing your name, and the amount you are going to pay (again, to confirm the store amount asked)
>the website asks for a SMS code you have been sent to your mobile phone (it lasts for only 5 minutes)
>you enter the code from your phone into the banks website
>everything is ok, the bank website redirects you to the store's website
>stores acknowledges your payment and you are good to go back to shitpost here

I AM AMAZED THIS IS NOT HAPPENING IN THE USA, A CARD FRAUD DEN

The US is a trash third world country. Canada has been on tap technology for years now and the US has barely began to implement chip tech.

>owning and paying off a credit cards shows you're not a deadbeat

What the fuck is a deadbeat?
How is taking loans constantly considered something positive in America? If someone around here takes a loan it means he's a poorfag out of cash.

I've literally never seen any store ask for an ID when you pay by card.

>he thinks being on Sup Forums outside of the 12-20 years old range is a good thing

I don't know where you live but Safeway, Homegoods, Bed Bath and Beyond, etc. all waive signatures under $25 on purchases for convenience.

You have to be a retard with no self will in the US to not use credit wisely. Seriously let's examine the benefits:
>Almost all credit cards in the US have no annual fee
>Almost all credit cards in the US charge no interest if you pay the bill in full each month (e.g. if you pay off all the shit you bought in april entirely, you won't pay any interest whatsoever)
>Almost all credit cards in the US offer rewards. I get 2% cashback on any purchase

>good credit cards offer extended warranties (24 months on anything I buy with a year or more warranty) for free on anything I buy
>good credit cards offer extended return windows (90 days) on almost everything you buy, no extra charge
>good credit cards offer 60-90 day price protection and refund up to $500 per purchase if the item goes on sale at any retailer within that period (you get the difference back), free of charge
>good credit cards offer accidental damage/theft coverage on purchases, free of charge
>good credit cards offer travel benefits like rental car damage coverage free of charge
>all of those benefits are available on just one of my credit cards that has no annual fee and I pay no interest on

I make several claims a year to my credit card companies on these benefits and my claims typically exceed $1,000/year in total. Hell, I had Hertz Canada claiming some shenanigans recently and that is worth $500 on its own.
>without credit card
I owe $500
>with credit card
Hertz sends the paperwork to my credit card company and the credit card company pays them. I don't get charged a cent.

>How do americans manage to have trouble with this?
seeing how stupid the average american is i guess they have troubles remembering their pin and thats why it takes so long ?

>in the US
man, good thing we're talking about Europe, not the US.

good that you mention it, time to transfer that shit to my savings account

yeah
someone told me that on Sup Forums the other day
the same with the 2FA on online purchases

I can't help but think the USA system cashes on card fraud

The average american also usually has multiple cards. I'm a bit on the high end but still, here's an example:

>I have two debit cards (internet bank + local bank). I have PINs on both of these.

>I have a total of 13 credit cards from 8 issuers
>most of them don't have PINs, a couple have PIN optional but prefer signature

Banks took the position that if they required PINs and other banks didn't that Americans would be too lazy to enter PINs and would switch credit cards. I wish I were joking.

tsys.com/solutions-services/acquiring-services/resource-center/the-chip-signature-vs-chip-pin-debate-continues
>Conversely, chip-and-signature backers in the U.S. have countered that a PIN-based approach would have been more difficult to implement. Driving this decision was the notion that U.S. consumers, on average, already carry around three credit cards5 in their wallet. Giving them another PIN code to remember, in addition to, say, the one they use for a debit card, would have made the transition tougher. When you combine that with the different actions— inserting a chip card instead of swiping— required to even proceed with a chip card transaction, many felt it better to go with chip-and-signature.

I'm Russian, we have 2FA on Internet purchases but no IDs requested on payment.

Swipe fees (interchange, charged to the merchant for card acceptance) and interest fees (charged to consumers if they don't pay the bill in full each month) are far higher in the US than Europe. This pays for costs from fraud much more than it did in Europe or Canada.

This is also why the US took so long to upgrade to chips in the first place, it just wasn't worth the infrastructure costs for banks to upgrade. Once the fraud started costing banks more than just paying for the fraud, they all switched to chips and told the merchants to follow.

>good credit cards offer extended warranties (24 months on anything I buy with a year or more warranty) for free on anything I buy
seriously ? i find that really really hard to believe
which company does that?

Works like this in Poland as well although I can tap the card to pay for expensive stuff too (still have to enter the pin afterwards).

Get your shit together burgers.

>Greece
>Money

Good one

Most US debit cards can be charged as credit at a POS, without requiring the PIN.

Chip cards are way better than swipe cards. Though smartphone-app based solutions will probably replace both.

Citi. The card for which I describe is the Citi Double Cash (no annual fee, 1% cashback when you buy + 1% cashback when you pay the credit card bill = 2% effective cashback on all purchases). Requires decent credit but good limits and great benefits.

I haven't claimed on the Citi Extended Warranty yet but did an extended return claim and it was smooth + easy. I have a Price Protection claim on a TV I just bought and they said it should be approved tomorrow.

Amex's policy is so easy it's ridiculous. Bear in mind I have a no annual fee card there too.
>get dashcam ($210 total)
>install in car
>test drive for 5 min
>eject memory card to review footage
>get in house and drop MicroSD on tile, step on it, breaks
>ask for $20 to get a new 32gb microsd card under accidental damage coverage (no fee/additional amount on purchase price)
>credit: $210 on statement, don't have to send it back
>call amex to make sure they didn't make a mistake
>it was intentional, keep the $210 and buy a new memory card, keep the difference

Same thing happened when I bought an Xbone and my brother spilled beer on the controller. Asked Amex for $60 to buy a new controller, just credited me the purchase amount ($430) instead, didn't have to send it back or anything.

Credit card benefits in the US are excellent if you get a good card and actually use them.

>get in house and drop MicroSD on tile, step on it, breaks

fucking kek.

Things that literally never fucking happened.

Go to Tumblr your fuck.

how the fuck do these companies survive ? are they all NSA sponsored or something ?
theres a lot of tech hardware with 2 year warranties that's usually to breaks within 1-2 years after the warranty runs out. having 2 year warranty on that shit sounds too awesome to believe it.

amex is useless everywhere in sweden

Chip is literally no faster than swiping anyway

Believe it or not, they did. Amex has no mechanism for a partial refund on their accidental damage coverage. And they've been generally good on extended warranty claims on just refunding the purchase. The exception was an Onkyo A/V Receiver where the HDMI board went and they wanted an estimate before furnishing repair. Onkyo ended up agreeing to service the receiver for free because it was a known defect (bad caps or something).

I honestly don't remember the last time I had to swipe my debit card. Must've been years ago. And it's been like a month since I used traditional money. Almost every business, no matter how small or remote has a terminal.

They say the reason that Poland is so up to date with payment tech is because we used to be so late to the party that there were no infrastructure to upgrade and we just went with the latest stuff.

i thing you missed the part where you sign the check for 30 seconds lol

The extra time this costs Americans is literally worth more than your entire country makes in a year.

>how the fuck do these companies survive ? are they all NSA sponsored or something ?
In the US, credit card companies get 2-4% of each transaction. So if you charge an $1,000 purchase on a card, the credit card company gets $20-$40 from the retailer.

Then you have interest rates that vary, the credit cards with the good benefits have an interest rate typically above 20% APR (annually). If you pay the bill in full each month you pay zero interest. But the people who carry balances... they pay shitloads of interest.

Also, for every large ticket purchase, a very small number of people actually claim. They require you to furnish your receipt for interest and report it to them. If you actually do so and invoke your benefits good for you, but most people never use the benefits on their cards.

We aren't liable for any fraudulent charges and our bank will give us a new card same day if one is cancelled so credit card fraud is a non-issue. The cost is entirely absorbed by the lender.

In Serbia (lol) we have all 3. Only need to sign if it's a swipe-only credit card, and we only have those because a big chunk of muh heritage Americans come here to visit their extended family. Non-plebeians use chips or NFC.

EMV cards are generally more secure and harder to clone that alone makes it worth it. But I can't explain why it takes so long for you guys

We've had it for years, it's fast and secure.

If you fuck up the implementation that's your own shit country's fault.

>chip & pin implemented across Europe
>murricans only implement the chip part
>on top of that they implemented the chip part poorly
kek

Time to move to europe I guess.

>I live in Greece
>I spent like 650 Euros on clothes in a single day
No need to lie, user

>harder to clone
The problem is everyone knew the magswipe was insecure as fuck thus consumers were never liable.

With chip it's broken but the banks + retailers insist it's secure and then you get stuck paying for the fraudster.

It is when it's very slow and poorly implemented.

It's supposed to prevent card present fraud that results from card cloning. In reality, EMV is flawed in a way that allows banks to blame consumers for fraudulent purchases.

cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/unattack.pdf
>EMV, also known as"\Chip and PIN", is the leading system for card payments world-wide
>[...]
>We have discovered that some EMV implementers have merely used counters, timestamps or home-grown algorithms to supply this number. This exposes them to a \pre-play" attack which is indistinguishable from card cloning from the standpoint of the logs available to the card-issuing bank, and can be carried out even if it is impossible to clone a card physically (in the sense of extracting the key material and loading it into another card). Card cloning is the very type of fraud that EMV was supposed to prevent.
>[...]
>We found flaws in widely-used ATMs from the largest manufacturers. We can now explain at least some of the increasing number of frauds in which victims are refused refunds by banks which claim that EMV cards cannot be cloned and that a customer involved in a dispute must therefore be mistaken or complicit. Pre-play attacks may also be carried out by malware in an ATM or POS terminal, or by a man-in-the-middle between the terminal and the acquirer. We explore the design and implementation mistakes that enabled the flaw to evade detection until now: shortcomings of the EMV specification, of the EMV kernel certification process, of implementation testing, formal analysis, or monitoring customer complaints.

>Europeans use chip & PIN for over a decade with no problem
>Americans get it and are instantly confused by a PIN number, start sharting and getting angry

You're fucking subhuman mutts.

here
Sorry, pasted some shit from the last time I posted it. Anyhow:

Chip definitely ups the bar for fraud from buying some shit from Dealextreme or Ebay, the problem is for the end consumer organized fraud can be done in a way that looks entirely legitimate to the bank. This is really fucking bad news.

Holy shit you amerifats are still signing when using cards?

We haven't had to do that shit for decades.

as others have mentioned, they can be used for credit (who knows why) in the US, making the PIN useless.

For every person that pays their credit card statement within the zero-interest grace period, you have some nigger that runs a $3k balance on their credit card with 17.5% annual interest.

Financially-retarded people subsidize the whole scheme. And there's no absence of those kinds of people in America.

This lmao
My country's annual GDP is less than a backwater Alabama Walmart's monthly sales revenue and even we have better tech

Retailers upgraded to EMV terminals, but connected them with the existing 56k links. So every chip+PIN transaction takes 30 seconds to complete over potato internet.

Blame the retard retailers.

>have shit infrastructure
>blame europeans
nice meme my friends

The cost of establishing tech when none is there vs. re-implementation in areas where it exists are two different things.

See also: Why Rome has no real functional subway system (they have to stop every 5 feet when they find Roman ruins somewhere and the importance of the find is assessed). Also why Brits have separate cold/hot taps in sinks. Harder to displace something that's there.

Another example more tech related is Itanium vs. x86_64. Itanium had benefits but emulation penalty was tremendous on Itanium vs. x86_64 which could run x86 code at native speed.

>Americans develop something efficent and effective, no unnecessary bloat as economy is key
>Europeans develop something intentionally retarded and wasteful to posture like they matter and spend all their time begging people to pay attention to them

Don't forget British ring electric distribution.
>can't afford copper
>have to put fuses in the electric socket because point-to-point wiring

reminder that the US is still on 120VAC 60Hz and still uses that clusterfuck of a unit system, in the year of our Lord 2k17

>start sharting and getting angry

Because it's fucking retarded.
The next step in retardation we'll end up with is the no-swipe cards because "they're using them in Europe for years now", without mentioning that they limit them to very small transactions because they are obviously insecure as fuck.
And without mentioning that Europe is a fucking retarded disaster sometimes interrupted by brief periods of peace and prosperity.

>but connected them with the existing 56k links

Looks like you're the retard. All payment terminals are connected to 56k links. The reason for the slow transaction is the processing speed on the end of the retailer, not the internet connection or even latency. You don't need 20 mbps both ways to process a fucking card translation consisting of strings of numbers and shit.

Even 28k would suffice and complete the transaction in under 5 seconds when the processing s quick.