Dude let's just waste something like a third of the die on the iGPU on our enthusiast processors even though everyone...

>dude let's just waste something like a third of the die on the iGPU on our enthusiast processors even though everyone in that market is using a dedicated GPU anyways
Why the fuck does Intel do this? They're getting beat by AMD in price/performance now, and giving people the option of buying a separate SKU without the iGPU for cheaper would allow them to potentially undercut AMD.

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By this logic the E series processors should have markedly higher performance, when they're actually clocked more conservatively.
But delidding this same chip drops temperatures by like 20°c, which lets you push like 5Ghz.
Instead of getting rid of the iGPU they should use a decent thermal interface.

Xeons are used for applications that don't need very high clocks, they're expensive because they use the die for other things. Like more cores, and the ability to control more memory and PCIe lanes.

Removing the iGPU would cut costs significantly because smaller die = better yields. It would do nothing to improve CPU performance, I'm not claiming that. If they really wanted to compete with AMD, they could offer SKUs without the iGPU and use the savings to solder the hest spreader.

Mainstream CPU is for laptops. HEDT is for enthusiasts.

You know what I mean. Their desktop CPUs are not the exact same part as their laptop CPUs. The vast majority of people buying desktop i5s are pairing it with a dedicated GPU.

After a few years of "good tim" you're right back to stock temperatures because the material fractures after repeated thermal cycling.

Laptop is the main use. Desktop mainstream CPU is just overclocked for niche market.

No, not everyone is using dedicated gpus
I know, you retards will not understand, but most PC's are sold for productive working where gaymen gpus aren't needed.

But Intel's enthusiasts CPUs don't have an igpu, user.
Just check their lga2011 processors.

You seem to not understand a thing about CPUs. Making yet another different production line for non-enthusiasts would be expensive as fuck for no reason.
Also, their igpu is used even if you have a dedicated gpu (see Intel's quick sync as an example)

The vast majority of people buying i5s are OEMs to ship in their pre-builts for your grandma

>buy $380 7700k marketed towards gaymers
>toss on a shitty gpu that won't even be used
>use excuse
>I know, you retards will not understand, but most PC's are sold for productive working where gaymen gpus aren't needed.
>using a gaymer cpu for productivity soley
you know, if you don't give two cents about gpu performance you're better off buying an equally shitty dedicated gpu for $70. hell, $40.
>hurrr the cost!
hurr the extra cores would benefit your ""*****productivity*****"" and that cost... if you don't give a shit about gpu performance then you'll keep that shitty $50 dedicated gpu for years to come. it won't cost anything extra in the end but you will gain a more powerful cpu for your ""*****productivity*****"".

that onboard gpu is pure garbage and barely matches $70 dedicated gpus to begin with. $70 dedicated gpus that don't even need a power cable.
>hurrr my $70 motherboard for my $380 gaymer cpu that i'm using for ""*****productivity*****"".
even that craptastic motherboard should be able to run that shitty $70 gpu.

The majority of the hardware market is in OEMs and what you're referring to are mainstream CPUs to begin with. Their enthusiasts line removes the iGPU.

>They're getting beat by AMD

Those people buy laptops. Seriously, check the sales numbers. Nobody is buying desktop anymore except gamers and professionals who need powerful computers for work.

oh yeah all those 7600ks and 7700k marketed towards gaymers sitting in a plethora of OEM units that include dedicated gpus to begin with.

MUH GAYEMZ

If it's so expensive, then how can AMD afford to do it when they're worth a fraction of what Intel is?

They are. Quad core Ryzen 5s are way cheaper than i5s.

i7s are marketed to more than just gamers. Having the iGPU also has very good uses for VM and letting the CPU take advantage of a onchip GPU for computation which has already been pointed out. If you honestly think you custom gaymers are their biggest market share for i7s you are in for a shocker.

>AMD doesn't waste die space on an iGPU for every SKU
>instead they use the space for more cores for productivity applications, or for cost savings for lower core count CPUs
>Sup Forums straw man's all Ryzen's critics as GAYMERS

>someone complains that Intel is wasting die space all SKUs on something people buying certain SKUs don't want
>Sup Forums straw mans them as gamers

AMD uses the same Zen die for everything from 4 core to 32. Very logical design.

ha ha XD Sup Forums BTFO :PP

Because people who don't need iGPUs on the mainstream platform are a minority and its more profitable to develop fewer SKUs rather than more. They don't need to appease the minority on the mainstream not needing iGPUs for the same reason they don't appease the minority of enterprise clients who would have some use for an iGPU on a Xeon.

OP IS A FAGGOT

downloadmirror.intel.com/26669/eng/ReleaseNotes_GFX_154516.4627.pdf

Newer Kaby Lake GPU supports OpenCL 2.1, fixed function HEVC Main10 hardware decoding & VP9 8/10bit hardware decoding

And I'm saying Intel should do the same thing.

They could literally just sell desktop processors with defective iGPUs for cheaper instead of trashing them and making no money off of them. They wouldn't have to add any costs to production to do that.

Intel already does same with 6950X, etc.

>desktop processors with defective iGPUs for cheaper

And then the OEM loses the selling point of having the iGPU which functions for more than just a video displayer see Intel is losing very little money off defective dies with bad iGPUs otherwise they would put them to use like they do i7-i5-i3

Can you be any more obviously an Intel shill? OEMs would not be buying these processors that don't have an iGPU if they don't want to. They can still make Pentium shit boxes with an iGPU for your grandma. The people buying the cheaper CPUs without the iGPU would know what they are getting into. Because they are literate and capable of reading a product page.

you should tell that to intel as intel only markets the 7600k and 7700k to gaymers.
>hurr i'm talking about i7's!
so? the 7600k and 7700k are the biggest sellers for intel in the ""enthusiast"" (really, gaymers) market. they market them TO enthusiast - gaymer. there is zero sense why they have the gpu when the overwhelming majority, super majority, never touch it.

also
>VM
if you where that much of a non gaymer "enthusiast" you would be using x99 or xeon for that. intel isn't marketing their quads for users like you. they sure market x99 and xeons for that though.

7700k is just a normie CPU that shares the same design with Celeron. It's good that Ryzen is available for those hate iGPU at reasonable price.

But doing it this way lets them get away with a lot more potential RMA cases, since people who delid their CPU's basically throw away their warranties in the process, and since all reviewers end up delidding the processors they can paint a way better picture of their own products while still offering a route for performance improvements in future generations without actually doing anything.

They could bring a separate SKU without iGPUs. But they are useful. A good backup or energy saving solution if you are not gaming with it.

The current gen iGPU is on a similar level with a GT 640.

...

My work computer doesn't look like a laptop and I just use it for pdfs

Congratulations on being a minority.

there are uses for an i7 beyond children's games

Intel will be announcing a partnership with AMD soon, they aren't going back to Nvidia.

>>someone complains that Intel is wasting die space all SKUs on something people buying certain SKUs don't want
do you retards think the cores will magically get bigger if they remove the GPU or something? technically it would cost more to produce one without a GPU anyway since you're either maintaining two separate production lines or adding in another stage to cut the GPU out with a laser

my kabylake pentium 4560 with 4 logical cores and a IGP 610 GPU on par with consoles which is more than enough to stream 2K without issue says high

find me a CPU and GPU for $60 that can do that

ill wait

How the fuck does that relate to anything I said? I'm saying Intel should offer two SKUs for each processor, one with an iGPU, one without. If you need a lot of processing power but almost no graphics processing power, you could still buy an i7 with an iGPU. If you're like a video editor and use CUDA anyways, you could save some money and buy an i7 without an iGPU. N O T H I N G I said at all is gaymer trash.

nice defense mechanism there senpai
not the previous poster, but have you considered the fact that even a video editor can use the igpu for additional monitors while also having a dedicated rendering GPU? of course you haven't. stop whining about the iGPU, it has it's uses. If you don't like it, just buy a Xeon without one.

>Intel should offer options for people who want this, and options for people who want that
>OMG, your proposal is so dumb! I'm not in the demographic that would buy this! I'm going to act like catering to both markets is somehow bad for me!


Are you retarded? If I thought that the cores would get bigger if you removed the iGPU, then I wouldn't be saying it would bring the cost down, because the die size would be the same.

I don't give a fuck how much it costs Intel, their margins are too big as it is. AMD can somehow afford to sell quad core CPUs for less than Intel, and 8 core CPUs for way less than Intel, and they can do it while also selling APUs. If AMD can do it, there's no reason Intel shouldn't be able to.

Show me where I said that nobody needs iGPUs. I never did. I said that Intel should offer options for people who don't want an iGPU. If you have a use for the iGPU, thats great, you can buy a processor with one. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying that other people should also be able to buy models without the iGPU, because it would be cheaper and a lot of people don't need it. Xeons cost way too much to be accessible to most of the market. If the people at Intel reason like you do, Intel is going to lose to AMD big time. Ryzen 5s are hugely popular because they can sell them cheaper because the die is smaller because they don't include an iGPU.

this Having an i7 without the iGPU won't make the 4 cores any better. you would just be paying the same price for less bang for your buck.
Also, let's say your GPU shits itself and you have no replacement - Did y'all think of that?

As for a separate SKU without iGPU - there already is one, it's called Xeons retards

>I said that Intel should offer options for people who don't want an iGPU.
what is ark.intel.com/products/88182/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1230-v5-8M-Cache-3_40-GHz

>because it would be cheaper
goodgoy.png
yea, cheaper, sure. You do realise you're talking about Intel here, right?

6600K/6700K =/= enthusiast

Intel is allowed to price gouge because if retards like you who get their panties in a bunch when people criticize Intel. Stop shilling Xeons, nobody can afford them in the consumer market. Why are you opposed to Intel taking notes from AMD and offering cheaper SKUs without the iGPU? Does the thought of a 7600k with no iGPU for $180 make it hard for you to sleep at night?

The on-die iGPU can still be used for compute even if the user puts a dedicated GPU in, so I don't know what your problem is.

Unless you are talking about gamers.

>They could literally just sell desktop processors with defective iGPUs for cheaper instead of trashing them and making no money off of them.
Now you're thinking like Intel.
It's a wonder they don't do this. This is how they make i5s and i3s after all.

Just make another class of iGPUless processors and sell the defects under it. Brilliant.

funny thing. I don't even own an Intel CPU. I keep laughing at tards like you who can't take criticism.
Also, stop deluding yourself, an 7600k is not enthusiast. If you're an enthusiast you'll go for HEDT.

You referred me to my own post while also not reading half of it. Regular people can't afford Xeons. They can afford i5s.

I categorize it as laptops + core i3 and below = consumer, core i5 and cheaper core i7 = enthusiast, core i7 and above = professional and enterprise.

And people who want the iGPU would still be able to buy models that have it. AMD is a fraction of the size of Intel and they can offer both types of processors to consumers. There are plenty of non gaming use case scenarios for a processor without an iGPU taking up half the die. Like people who use CUDA accelerated programs and would be better off from having more cores + a dedicated GPU.

I'm sorry but, how do "regular people" fit into the OP's "enthusiast". Matter of the fact is Intel has too many SKU's and not enough variety in them. They just rebrand the same shit with higher clockspeeds over and over again.

Forget the terminology I used. It's creating pointless side tracking. I'm talking about the market of people who want to build their own PC, and spend $200 or less on the processor. AMD is making huge gains in those markets because they're doing what I'm asking for. Why do you have an AMD processor if you have such a problem with what I'm proposing, when they're doing what I'm proposing?

I am OP. There is no contradiction between regular people and enthusiasts. A lot of normal people build computers either for gaming, or for video editing, or for other more niche applications. These people don't do it for their job, and are therefore normal people and enthusiasts. Let's say someone wants to make tutorial videos for some hobby that they have on YouTube. Their laptop isn't cutting it, so they decide to build a computer for video editing. They've done research and found out that the best set up is a multi core CPU, and a dedicated GPU for GPU accelerated video editing. They have the choice between a $150 quad core CPU, a $200 six core CPU, and a $200 quad core CPU that includes an iGPU. Which processor makes the most sense for them?

Your point only means that Intel should clean up their line up before they offer models without the iGPU. Not that they shouldn't offer models without the iGPU at all.

Alright, sorry I read too much into the words.
Your point is valid, I'm not saying that there isn't a market for Intel to tap into. It's most likely a monetary thing though. The value segment has very little profit to be made compared to what they currently do. Why sell 1 value cpu for 60% manufacturing profit, when they can sell an enthusiast one for 90% profit.

And I have an AMD APU precisely because of what you asked Initially. It's the value and what I use it for - consumer grade stuff. Intel did not offer me anything worthy of my money at the time. But I most likely wouldn't have bought Intel eitherway at the time, due to many factors including the forementioned useless iGPU.

tj;dr - you are right, they could & should do it. But let's be honest, it won't happen, unless they get proper competition in the upper end first.

>Which processor makes the most sense for them?
I wish it was this black and white. Sadly it isn't and in my case, I'd take the iGPU one, not because it's a smart choice monetarily, but because I love having redundancy in case my GPU dies.

regardless, I admit I wen't too ham. you and the other guy make a valid point, just not stated properly. What you want is a cheaper alternative to the aforementioned xeon's.

>IGP 610 GPU on par with consoles
are you retarded? It doesn't get more than 30 fps on any ~5 year old game at 720p lowest

Have you read the "yet another different production line" part? AMD's ryzen is a single product line with no igpu, while Intel's mainstream core line - which means all of the i3, i5 and i7s up to 4c/8t, including the K-series CPUs (like the 7700k) - are produced as a single product and latter split into the different SKUs we see, meaning all of them get the igpu.

Go back to Sup Forums already ffs, those "gaymers" CPUs are made together with your non-gaymer ones

Xeon and core CPUs in the same performance range are similarly priced (within $10 of each other), stop whining about pricing

"People who don't need iGPUs are a minority"
People who DO use iGPUs don't need anything more than an i3. Corporations shill out for workstations that use Quadros. Also, if you make the "workstation" excuse for using an iGPU you are probably some shitty blogger who doesn't do any actual work. Offices shill out for workstations with Quadros.

>doing CAD on a iGPU
>doing 3D modeling on an iGPU
>doing Adobe CS work on an iGPU
>doing literally anything other than text documents on an iGPU

There are no Xeon CPUs under $250.

And the full Ryzen lineup isn't released yet. We so know that Ryzen APUs are coming. And AMD did have cpus with and without iGPUs in the past before Ryzen.

i3 and Pentium are a different die from i7 and i5

pictured is 7700K and 7350K

>doing literally anything other than text documents on an iGPU

I play Supreme Commander on my SandyBridge generation HD 3000 mobile iGPU.

In wine.

they are letting AMD regain market share so they don't monopolize the market if they go out of business
that and they could care less about the consumer market because they make way more from the business market

>then how can AMD afford to do it
Because AMD doesn't have to explain to its shareholders why its gross margins are no longer over 60%.

It's like if the US goes to war with some shithole in the Middle East. They lose tens of thousands and we lose a few hundred. But we're the ones crying because we value our soldiers' lives while sandniggers are happy to martyr themselves.

Even nowadays where the desktop is considered "dead" gamers are still less than 2% of the desktop market share
Because gpus are easy as fuck to produce
cpus on the other hand can only (reasonably) get so big before you run into binning issues.