How long does a hard drive last when you just put everything on it and keep it in a safe place?
portable hard drive?
what about cds? When will they rot when kept secure?
I want actual storage, not for a few years then move all data to new thing to then do it again.
(((THE CLOUD)))
>How long does a hard drive last when you just put everything on it and keep it in a safe place?
Longer than you'll care about.
Optical storage will generally rot.
In a few years you've bought a new drive.
Portable HD master race, but I don't have an alternative option when my drive dies.
no one really knows
>HDD (both external and internal)
In the best climate conditions and without using them too often, they can last quite a long time. It's the moving parts inside that can fail overtime. Dropping them can be potentially catastrophic. You definitely want to be gentle with these and do research on finding the brands with high-quality parts that will last.
>SSD (both external and internal)
Won't have to be as concerned with climate conditions as much with these. Downsides to these are that they give out also if you use them a lot and they're pretty damn expensive still. I'd assume these last longer than HDD if you kept the usage to a minimum.
>CD-ROMs
terrible for backing up data. they rot and even if you keep them in the ideal climate, they will go faulty/corrupt much earlier than say a HDD or SSD
>Cloud-based
depends on the host and if you're willing to potentially give up things such as privacy. Keep in mind that sites go down, servers can crash, and websites/services and shut-down permanently. If you have capped data, the cloud may not be a recommended method for anything massive in file size.
To summarize, you will not find a storage option that will work forever. all options have a lifecycle pretty much. Surely the more we improve tech, the longer the lifecycles of these storage devices will become.
>Downsides to these are that they give out also if you use them a lot and they're pretty damn expensive still
OLD MEME
Modern ssds last over 2 PETABYTES
Thats right 2,000,000,000,000,000 bytes.You can write 10gb a day every day for 10 years and still not come close to the limit.
can't wait for some jerk off later on on future jewtube or equivalent
kill an "ancient" sdd that could only take 2 petabytes in a few minutes
Always keep in mind that HDDs are working through magnetising discs, and this magnetised state wont last forever.
Same goes for SSDs and other flash based storage - they work through electrical charge, which also wont last forever.
I dont know how long actually, but I would say something about 4-5 years until you're getting problems.
If you dont need to backup terabytes, maybe take a look at M-Discs.
They pretty expensive compared to normal DVDs/Blurays, but they should survive you if you treat them well.
>the cloud
suddenly, internet goes down
>terrible for backing up data. they rot and even if you keep them in the ideal climate, they will go faulty/corrupt much earlier than say a HDD or SSD
CD-RW are iffy, but CD-Rs from a decent brand will survive longer than you will with it's data intact. An unpowered HDD has a fraction of the lifespan.
I have thousands of these fuckers and have never seen one go bad.
If they fail, they fail during the burn and they become coasters. A lot of people who bitch about "expired discs" actually fucked them up burning too fast and simply never tested them after their burn. Their discs didn't decay, they were bad from day 1 and never tested.
Years ago the topic of digital archives was hot and both libraries and government agencies examined optical media for long term storage. NIST and the library of congress had one of the better studies and they came up with a minimum of 30 years for CD-Rs, but when stored properly the manufacturer claims of 100 years are not unreasonable.
>Among the manufacturers that have done testing, there is consensus that, under recommended storage conditions, CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs should have a life expectancy of 100 to 200 years or more; CD-RW, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and DVD-RAM discs should have a life expectancy of 25 years or more. Little information is available for CD-ROM and DVD-ROM discs (including audio and video), resulting in an increased level of uncertainty for their life expectancy. Expectations vary from 20 to 100 years for these discs.
>Few, if any, life expectancy reports for these discs have been published by independent laboratories. An accelerated aging study at NIST estimated the life expectancy of one type of DVD-R for authoring disc to be 30 years if stored at 25°C (77°F) and 50% relative humidity.
Disc rot is rare as fuck, outside of that big batch of Philips CDs that brought "disc bronzing" into the mainstream discussion. It is more often related to manufacturing errors or mishandling.
Redundant tape backups in multiple cool dark locations
For me backing up my whole server to recordable media (Blu-ray/DVD/etc) would be a time consuming and expensive nightmare. I've got like 8TB and growing. It'd take like 400 50gb blu-rays to back it all up. Currently I backup to another drive. A 8TB nas and a 3tb external. Core files I have a 2nd copy stored on several 2TB drives. Those 2TB drives are kept in anti static bags inside a sealed box in a closet. Once the cost of 10TB drives go down I plan to get one and store all sever data on it as a 2nd copy.
>only writing 10GB a day
What's it like to watch movies / TV shows at 720p or less?
so
ITT: No actual viable way to store data just drive switching every 4 or so years
good post
but now im curious why CD-RW die faster
would it be close to CD-R if it was written on once then never again hmm
That is a CD-R retard
Also consider M-discs
only have 4 drives for a NAS
raid 5 or raid 6?
har har har
Probably raid5, as long as you have separate backups or don't care. At 4 disks it has 3 disks worth of capacity as compared to 2 for raid6 or raid10.
There is no 100 % safety.
I currently use a 4 TB drive to store my movies and documentaries, but it will be full soon. I'll need a NAS and a 8 TB drive.
Other, smaller and more personal data is stored on a 1.5 TB external drive. I can take it with me and remove it so my computer could be safe to use for others. Its also good to have my music on the external drive, I can access it on both my PCs until I have a NAS.
I also saved my most valuable files on my old PCs harddrive just in the case all my other drives fail. Music and some of my images / installers are also uploaded on my webspace, but I can't do that often, 60 GB music takes me four days to upload and its growing.
I'm pretty tech retarded
I've almost had my PC I built for two years, should I invest in some new HDD's/SDD?
Right now I have a single 1TB HDD and an SSD with 232 GB
I don't wanna end up losing everything some time down the line
The Cloud is nothing but someone else's computer
If you hoard data (especially 4K and 1080p videos) you should invest in a 4 or 8 TB drive. Otherwise 1-2 TB drives are pretty cheap now.
Do you personally need more space?
regardless, back it up with an external.
For true long term storage? A stone tablet or maybe a tape drive.
SSD+HDD setup is fine.
>I don't wanna end up losing everything some time down the line
Not having backups is a mistake.
I never hoarded data.
The only thing I have is a 500gb external hdd with some videos, isos and vidya
Years ago I thought Google Photos would solve this, but now I have thousand of somewhat relevant pictures of my past between tens of thousands of pictures of random shit
How do I break this habit?
tape drives are the best solution available
I mainly just hoard Shows/documentaries/games that I DL as I know I end up downloading them again some time in the future
Is there any 4TB HDD's you'd recommend?
Yeah, i've always meant to get a backup at least i've just never gotten around to it
And this question will probably sound idiotic but if I was just to use a huge HDD as a backup, would I be better transferring everything then disconnected and keep it that way until I need it?
I've learned the hard way about RW disks.
Part of it is the laser has to be cranked up more to burn onto it. Granted, less rewritings will preserve them longer, but they still require more power to burn and then read.
What's not mentioned much is this will also cause the burner/reader to die out as well.
My experience has been with CD and DVD rw's. Not much experience with blue ray RW, but... my guess is it's along the same lines.
Tape is the best. But you have to store it correctly.
But you have to save it in some format that you will still be able to decode after a long time.
>transferring everything then disconnected and keep it that way until I need it?
Yes. Except do it every once in a while, not just once. I would also recommended backing up the few most important files on a separate flash drive also. Like password database, tax info, whatever.
stop being anxious about the things you have, you're not taking anything with you.
Ah, you mean back it up again every once in a while?
Thanks for the help by the way, appreciate it, trying to familiarise myself with everything at once has been a bit daunting for me, I hate being shit with my PC since I spend so much time on it
mna I just want a collection thats not a pain to maintain
I DONT HAVE THIS PROBLEM WITH BOOKS
Long as you unplug/power off the NAS/External backup drive when your not using it the drives inside should last a long time and you don't gotta worry about power spikes/outages causing data to get fucked up. Combined with a good backup program you can pretty much make doing backups a easy to do thing. For ex the backup program I use I keep 2 predefined templates saved. One is for Full backup, the other is for Incremental. When time comes to run a backup I just select the template I want and let the program do the rest. While it works I go about my day.
...
>An unpowered HDD has a fraction of the lifespan
What? You must have meant SSD rather than HDD. HDDs don't need to refresh what has been written (which requires power), SSDs do.
But 400 50-GB discs is 20TB.
No it's not. The implementation of CD-R and CD-RW discs is quite different.
Are 1.5 TB drives considered "small" these days? What about 500 GB drives - does it make sense to bother with them, or should all data be migrated over to drives at least a terabyte in size?
1.5 TB is still pretty big for a 2.5" drive.
You don't need 1 TB if you don't have that much data. I currently only use 500 GB of my 1.5 TB and 300 GB of these are 4K gameplays. Its better to have space left. I often use it as a temporary storage when I unzip movies and other large files.
500 GB drives are fine for smaller amounts of data, you can also take 128 or 256 GB USB sticks for images and music. Don't forget, its 2017.
So I understand you'd recommend to avoid using RW media at all if possible.
These days 1tb+ has better cost/capacity so don't bother with other stuff. It may still make sense to buy 500-1000gb laptop drives as larger ones are more expensive.
>1.5 TB is still pretty big for a 2.5" drive.
Yeap, it's pretty strange that they somehow basically stopped getting larger years ago. in 2008 there were the first 500 GB 2.5'' drives available, and over 9 years they have only grown to 2 TB which are quite expensive and won't fit in most laptops as they are 15mm thick. Why?
Put all your data in an encrypted archive file and upload it to the Internet Archive. Free, unlimited file storage.
Actually good idea desu. What is max size? Does their ToS prohibit this?
Nice, never rolled hex before.
k y s
SHIT
Is a "kys" taunt the new way to honour a get of such caliber?
>CD-Rs from a decent brand will survive longer than you will with it's data intact.
fucking original discs can fail, let alone CDRs.
The material that optical discs are made of is not stable. For originals, small imperfections in the printing process can form bubbles that oxidize the data and slowly eat it up. CDRs are worse, they just have a chemical dye on them that is inherently unstable.
I've also burned 1000+ discs easy, and a lot of them are not readable by now. Seemingly random shit like the case you store them in, can introduce some element that eats up the dye on burnt discs. My hard drives are way more reliable; at least they can tell you if they have a problem, CDs just go plonk and one day you find that your backups are dead. I've a stack of dead drives ranging back to 1gb scsi drives to 2tb Samsung F4s, and I still lost more data to optical backups than hard drives.
By the way I remember those TDK discs with the buzzsaw marks in the middle, they were great, once of the better brands. I started using them when they were only up to like 16x when I first started using them (the buzzsaw mark came later).
If you were an archive.org admin and encountered a huge file which is either random data or encrypted, wouldn't you just delete it? The Internet Archive is supposed to preserve data which could be of interest to anyone, and not to be anyone's free personal file locker.
SEXTUPLES
>max size
From FAQ:
+Is there a limit to what I can upload?
At this time there is no limit. Due to system architecture we recommend that item pages not exceed either 1000 files or 50GB.
+Do you backup my files?
Yes. We duplicate/backup all files at various locations.
+How long will you store it?
As an archive our intention is to store and make materials in perpetuity.
Couldn't find anything in the TOS against using their service for the reasons above. They seem like chaotic-good guys.
a well-encoded (not uncompressed 50GB raw bluray rip autism) 2 hour 1080p movie is only 2GB maximum. do you watch more than 5 movies per day?
You don't think that bluray is uncompressed, do you? An entirely uncompressed movie in HD would be anywhere from hundreds of gigabytes up to a terabyte in size.
>An accelerated aging study at NIST estimated the life expectancy of one type of DVD-R for authoring disc to be 30 years if stored at 25°C (77°F) and 50% relative humidity.
Horse shit.
Back in the 00s me and a friend were pirating every goddamn thing we could find, and burnt thousands of discs on multiple different drives and different brand discs - gone through everything, Pioneer, LG, Plextor, NEC, and all kinds of media, from no-names, ritek/ridisc, TDK, Maxell, JVC, old verbatims, to high end taiyo yuden and azo+ layer recent verbatims.
In a period of 2-3 years, at least one have failed from practically every combination. I think the only one still working is the JVC, but I only ever burned one of those (the disc came with my old Pioneer burner). I had a full briefcase full of backups that randomly started going dead, fine one day, dead 2 months later, and more and more of them acting like that. They were all stored in a dry, cool place, but the discs my friend has were getting busted too and he had them in his room which is hot as hell. It made no difference both of us had many dead discs.
And if you back up say 1tb of data, you have to verify 200+ DVDs at any time to see if everything is fine. DVDRs are the worst form of backups you can do.
There is some new brand that uses inorganic dye, M-Disc. I haven't used those yet, I heard good stuff about them, but it's honestly not worth grabbing them now because it is cheaper to store large amounts of data on hard drives or even the cloud.
If you are backing up terabytes worth of data, you should use tape. I don't recall the actual numbers but you can do something like 10tb on just one of them.
good thing we have the technology to compress it down to 2GB without any noticeable difference in quality.
Yup. 24 bits per pixel times 1920 pixels per line times 1080 lines per frame times 24 frames per second times 60 seconds per minute times 90 minutes for an average movie is already 834 GB - and that's just "regular" HD in 24 fps, without any audio. For 30fps 4k it would go up in size exactly five times for a total of about 4 TB - just the video.
Many people also believed that DVD was "uncompressed" back in the day, (not realizing it was MPEG-2-compressed), possibly assuming a parallel to BMP images or WAV audio files which are actually uncompressed. People just don't realize how insanely large uncompressed video really is.
how does archive.org afford to do what they do? endless government funding? I hope they never get defunded by retarded politicians or shutdown by copyright kikes. please don't abuse their servers for storing your 20TB encrypted porn collection.
>1.5tb raw storage space
>upwards of 2tb when using compression
>400 megabytes per second transfer rate
Say what you will, but these things are the objectively superior backup media.
Yes. The technology is both extrememely efficient algorithms which have been maturing over the past few decades, as well as hardware which is powerful enough to decode such streams in real-time. Formats intended for stand-alone players (such as DVD or Bluray) are always less efficient (thus the larger media size) as the hardware in a standalone player is always much less powerful than a contemporary PC.
Yes. It implies jealousy, which is an appropriate reaction to such beautiful digits.
i never understood why "compressed storage" is something that is advertised
it´s not like they are offering some kind of revolutionary compression that only works with tape drives
It's the same reason storage is advertised with units of 1000 instead of 1024. People see the larger number and automatically think of it as the true capacity.
>jealousy is an appropriate reaction to good/beautiful things
That'd explain a lot why the world is such a cancerous place.
Yes. If you create something "good" or beautiful, you can be certain of precisely one thing - that there will be those who'll desire to steal or destroy it.
Yes. Negative drives and emotions always prevail and dominate in nature, because they are self-replicating - you can survive being peaceful only if others are too, but if anyone threatens you, you must abandon your peacefulness behind and counter his threat with one of your own. Evil, agression, and chaos are always contagious and come effortless or even naturally, while good, peace, and order always require much effort to create, and too often must betray themselves in an effort to sustain themselves faced with adversaries. It's a doggy dog world out there.
SSDs need to be used in order to retain electrical charge. They lose data after 1 year don't they?
My dad owns his own business and makes weekly backups of quickbooks on 3 separate USB flash drives that he stores at the bank in a safe deposit box. The rest of his computer gets monthly backups using an external HDD that he keeps at his house just in case he has a catastrophic drive failure.
Yes. This table estimates SSD data retention in weeks based on the temperature it was used at and stored at.
Is this for SLC, TLC, or MLC? That makes a difference, doesn't it?
My laptop only has a 128GB SSD so I bought a 128GB SD card to use for extra storage and transferring files to and from my desktop which has 4TB of HDD space. It's an okay solution but even the Sandisk Extreme Pro class 10 SD card is fairly slow when writing 10+ GB at once to it.
check'd
anandtech.com
Didn't notice this is for drives that have been written to more than rated for. So for a typical consumer it would probably last several years.
So they should be used in a hot environment, and stored in a cold one? Kinda counterintuitive, isn't it.
>How long does a hard drive last when you just put everything on it and keep it in a safe place?
Unless it has had a drop or impact it will last 30 years, easily. Computers that old routinely power up and all the data from the 80s is there. It's actually an uncommon scenario for it not to be.
wasted
The drive should heat up as you use it since the chips themselves generate heat along with the rest of the components in a computer. It has to do with conductivity changes at different temperatures.
About to buy
amazon.com
Any other recommendations?
Pretty good deal for a 2.5/portable.
archive.org
+What are your fees?
At this time we have no fees for uploading and preserving materials. We estimate that permanent storage costs us approximately $2.00US per gigabyte. While there are no fees we always appreciate donations to offset these costs.
>$2 per GB
>20TB encrypted porn collection
That hypothetical 20TB porn collection would cost them $40,000?
Another option is a 2.5 7mm internal and a $10 usb3 enclosure.
>Modern ssds last over 2 PETABYTES
Write them. It's only for pro/enterprise SSDs
I wonder how many years those cost estimations are for. 20TB for 100 years might cost $40k. Still seems pretty high though.
Maybe that's just a sneaky way to ask for $2 worth of donations for every GB you upload there.
3 thousand dollar tape drive and 120 dollar tape cartridges.
Yeah, this is pretty much the conclusion you should draw from this thread.
Unless you're a business that wants to buy enterprise grade tape drives.
LTO-7?
These declarations sure are pulled outta the ass just as MTBF figures for HDDs. Just because a manufacturer declares "hurr this drive has a MTBF of umpteen gorillon hours" doesn't mean that the drive is very likely (let alone sure) to actually last that long.
really needs to better choices for this kind of thing
What should be the incentive to switch a HDD, given that it gives no problems, SMART looks ok, and so do performance tests? A drive which has been working well for a few years and shows no problems isn't likely to fail in the near future either, while a brand-new drive is a lottery.
U wot? What's with all the broken English posts lately? Has 4chins been invaded by pajeets?
man I'd really like physical media
I'd love to write series to dvds or cd-r
I'm getting such a variety of numbers though..
cds in number are cheap at least
post dvd-r, cd-r links
There really needs to be better choices for this kind of thing.
>dvd-r, cd-r
TDK or Verbatim? Or some other brand? Which are "Sup Forums-approved"?
Muh electron tunneling