Moralfags BTFO

Moralfags BTFO

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gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Piracy
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piracy is like cheating on a exam or copying your classmates homework except it costs billions in lost sales

never seen this thread before

Moralfag here.
It is actually immoral to pay for things.

Fine by me, like I give a fuck about lining some rich asshole's pockets

Since piracy is just theft at sea, piracy isn't technically piracy either.
>gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Piracy

>wew I spent countless hours into making this let me just let anybody copy it without any compensation whatsoever
>I live by eating air after all

>sea is metaphor internet
There you go!

>implying the artists and the ones getting fucked over the hardest by mega corporations right now
>implying they see any of this `compensation'

Fuck you being rich is moral stealing money isn't.

>lost sales

Profit is theft.
Sharing is caring.

Good thing I only pirate to hurt the Jew.

I think it depends. If you pirate an OS like windows to play games, post on Sup Forums or use facebook microsoft couldnt give a shit. Now if an entire company has a pirate version of windows in their offices then its a problem, since they are making a profit. The same could be said for any liscensed software, like downloading autocad to fuck around and practice vs making a mayor proyect with it.

If someone intended to be paid by you for something they produced originally then it is immoral for you to use it without paying. If you do not agree with the person, you should not use something they produced. Its very simple.

lost sale is a shit meme proposed by corporation lawyer

>lost sales
Still waiting for something to actually back this up

The original idea was that the artists should gain an income over several years for their work or with that extended protection (70 years after death) have a leverage to sell to distributors/publishers for a better price.

Trouble is that artists are not good at business or negotiations. Publishers, however, are.

it's not a meme it's real, just very difficult to estimate

>lost sales

It only costs billions in Jewish butthurt as it makes them realize that the cattle aren't all braindead like they were taught.

>attacking a ship and kidnapping the crew merely makes a copy of the ship and crew while leaving the originals untouched

>costs billions in lost sales
At least they can ignore the support of my copy. They usually ignore for the legal one too though.

>lost sales

Theft deprives the owner of the right to use a good. Digital piracy does not.

You can tell someone is retarded or a total corporate shit if they even mention "lost sales".

Sales can't be "lost", sales are sales, if someone steals something from a store that isn't a "lost sale". If someone decides not to buy your software because there is a cheap alternative that isn't a "lost sale". If you get undercut that isn't a "lost sale", these things are all simple non-sales and are an inevitable part of doing business in real life. Not everyone wants what you're selling, calling disinterest "lost sales" or "lost revenue" or any other such shit is just a disingenuous attempt to appear to be some sort of victim of something.

How can you say lost sales aren't real? It costs money to create a product, let's say a game. If no one buys the game, instead they pirate it, the company that made the game will get fucked over it, since they are unable to cover production costs and make a profit. Hence, the company will fail, causing no more future support for the product and even possible new products that the company could have made.

In short, yes, lost sales are real and they do damage sellers. In some cases piracy can be ignored, since revenues from legit purchases are enough. But in other cases, especially with indie stuff, piracy can really be devastating. So, if you like something and can buy it, do it. Otherwise go fuck yourself and use another product.

?

Artist here.
Would rather share my beloved creations freely (both libre and gratis) than extort my fans, friends, and fellow humans, or worse, have some corporate third party fuck me over doing that in my name.

If everyone pirated it, it's because no one thought it was worth supporting and it deserves to die.

Image someone pays you to program something for him, and then when you're finished he just copies everything and says "WTF, why would I pay you for the original when this copy is absolutely identical and it didn't create any addition work for you when I created it, so you're not entitled to being paid for it!"?

Would that be okay for you?

I don't buy it if it costs money

This is my point. But if everyone pirated it, and liked it, then no support will ever come. You do not use something IRL without paying. With piracy you can.

That assumes people even think that far. A big assumption. Concepts like "Tragedy of the Commons" suggests it is the norm to expect others to put in an effort.

The world doesn't owe you shit, faggot.

I was once at a hotel where all the computers literally said, "This copy of Windows is not genuine." No one gave a shit.

>Making false analogies to defend rich people he doesnt know
Sure smells like shill around here.

>it's because no one thought it was worth supporting and it deserves to die.
Wow if that were the case then nobody would fucking pirate it.
You don't want to have a bag of shit so why would you pirate a bag of shit?

Nice reasoning here. You made something that costed time and resources, put it up for sale, people like it and use it, but no one buys it since they don't "owe you shit". You die of starvation and depression.

>You do not use something IRL without paying.
>what is borrowing

I don't give a shit if you pirate movies made in (((hollywood))).

But I've never seen pirates make a difference between jewish media and indie stuff. They just always pirate and they don't care whom they hurt.

What if it's like a mystery bag, where I can see before I buy something if it's good or not? It's better than having lost my money to a shit product.

If the fanbase is so shit that none of them want to support the product they like, then it deserves to die anyway. Seriously, your fanbase has to consist entirely of Russians or South Americans if all of them pirate it.

The lost sales maym is not only retarded, what happens is the opposite of what they claim.
>friends share copies of x
>more people encounter x
>interest in x goes up
>the number of people who might actually pay for x goes up
>many of these people would have never even heard of or cared about x had it not been shared with them in the first place
Piracy actually increases sales.

Selling things is inherently immoral anyway

Yes, but (free) borrowing is not a business model. Banks do not just lend you houses until you die. IRL you pay even to borrow shit, because revenue is needed in return.

The Jews know this but it hurts their pride when goyim find ways around handing over shekels.

Yeah, you should rather starve to death. Everyone should. That's moral AF senpai. And let your kids starve to death as well.

>you either have to perpetuate consume whore slavery or we all die

>What is agriculture
You'd think people would know that fruit begets fruit in the 21st century.

It's immortal to pirate

But does that make piracy justifiable? Think about it. It's kinda like saying: if I throw this empty cola can on the street, who the fuck cares? I'm just a single individual, this little action doesn't imply anything. But if everyone went like this, all streets would be a huge shitload of empty cola cans. Same thing with: "If I pirate this, what does it change?"

Yeah maybe a couple thousand bucks lost

>lost sales
>the people who pirated your shit were gonna pay for it if piracy didn't exist

True to a certain extent. Piracy may have some positive effects, but in the end, it does more harm than good.

>lost sales
the ones who pirate things weren't going to pay money even if pirating wasn't an option anyway

Yeah, my current life where I work for 8 hours 5 out of 7 days so I can purchase all the different kinds of food, entertainment etc. sucks.
I'd so much rather have a life where I work for 18 hours a day, even on weekends just so I can have the same milk, eggs and (at summer) even crops, which rot away before winter because there are neither fridges nor electricity to power them.

Just go to North Korea or whatever communist "paradise" or become an Amish. And stop using electricity and computers, because you won't find those on the field.

Just pirated Gentoo, what are you going to do about it?

Being contracted to create a potentially one off product is completely different to making a product and putting it on the market. If you're contracted, the person who hired you is obliged to pay for the produced. If you're just putting something on the market, nobody owes you shit.

Is all the time someone is not buying movies a crime?
I mean, it is loosing them money, so why isn't it illegal to not buy movies?

I can't even imagine living life viewing sharing as morally reprehensible and corporations as anything but the lowest evil.
How on earth did you people stray so far from your basic humanity?

Problem with selling software isn't piracy. It's a bad business model. The ability to copy is fundamental to a computers design and you are trying to make a piece of software that cannot do whatever the computer itself is dependent on doing. Many businesses have figured this out and have shifted their business model in response.

If this thread is any indication, we'll get there soon enough.

Broken reasoning. If piracy wasn't a thing, people would not pay indeed. But they wouldn't be able to use the product. With piracy you use something that costed money to be made without giving nothing back.

>If the fanbase is so shit that none of them want to support the product they like, then it deserves to die anyway.
Determining the quality of a product by its "fanbase" seems to be a bit desperate, user. News: it is possible to use a product without having to be a fan.


>Seriously, your fanbase has to consist entirely of Russians or South Americans if all of them pirate it.
You really think the non-payers are limited to those two regions??

Just build your own faggot, Fuck I hate nu-Sup Forums so much.

If piracy doesn't hurt then why is Windows better than Linux? Window is paid software and it's not in a beta release candidate like Linux is. Linux keeps experimenting with new things that always breaks or you revert to old versions until x version is fixed. That's because Linux is free and no one pays for the Linux kernel to be more mature. The developers don't have that motivation of "if I do better for this project I can make a better living. I better sure try harder" with Linux it's like "I'll make this because it's needed but since no one is paying me I will take my time and finish it when I feel like it, I don't own the community shit". Can you see who would be more motivated? The one that gets paid.

Just lol, unless you're producing tonnes of produce you're not gonna be working anywhere near those kind of hours. Other than slaves, people today work more hours then any other period of time.

True. I agree DRMs are stupid and useless, this is a moral problem. Applying other business models can help for sure.

But the cost of reproduction is near zero. Imagine you had a food copier machine that could be purchased for 100 bucks and sold food. You could argue that your pizza cost money to develop the recipe from pro chefs but after the recipe is made the cost of producing that pizza is nearly zero after purchasing the copier.
It makes zero sense to try to complain that people are pirating the copyrighted recipe. It's a bad business model.

The car analogy makes no sense, it depicts the problem from the user viewpoint (driver, car owner) and not the content producer (car manifacturer).

If you pirate the game I developed you not only remove all value from what I did, you also provide potential customers with what they want without me getting anything out of it.

Even worse if you upload it to some shitty sharing website where a third party makes money out of my stolen softwer with their cangerous ads.

Fuck you for trying add some sort of ethics to this nonsense.

People do pay for Linux. There are many full time paid developers from ibm, Google, even Microsoft

>With piracy you use something that costed money to be made without giving nothing back.
So?
It's an intangible product, someone 'using' it has no effect on anyone. In fact it as the exact same effect as not using it at all, the product owner certainly can't tell the difference between someone pirating his product or someone not using it at all.

>Just build your own faggot

What do I need? Sugar, spice and everything nice?

And here you are, posting on your computer that you (or maybe mommy) bought for you, probably haven't even worked hard for a day in your life and you're fat and waxing your carrot to japanese drawings of little girls.

Why aren't you living that dream-life? Go ahead. acquire land and work your ass off. I'll be waiting when you come crawling back and beg for entitlements, a 9-5 job, a computer, power, internet access and proper food.

>lost sales
No one has been able to prove any lost sales from piracy. You know this of course.

>Confusing plutocracy for "capitalism"
The early 80's was the last sign of capitalism.

The fact that the product is intangible doesn't change much. Just because a game you pirate is just bytes, it doesn't mean someone didn't spend time/money/resources to put together those bytes. If you use their product actively and don't support, you are benefiting of their time/money/resources for free. If everyone did this, the seller would be affected heavily.

They don't pay for Linux. They donate. There is a difference.

>acquire land
No problem. I'll just work for 20 years of my life to pay off the property. Also nice projection there, son.

I hate HEAVEN so much!

I feel no sympathy towards people who show me ads for a cinema movie
>I FUCKING PAID FOR.
There is no limit, even adopting paywalls across the entire web won't stop ads. That is why I am seeding 24/7 and never pay for any service.

Communists

>The fact that the product is intangible doesn't change much.
It changes everything, and even the law disagrees with you - 'copyright infringement' and 'theft' are two different crimes.
> If you use their product actively and don't support, you are benefiting of their time/money/resources for free.
I see absolutely no ethical or moral problem with this if such a 'use' cannot be distinguished (i.e some kind of measurable loss, be it wear&tear, loss of goods, property, etc) from a 'non-use'.
>If everyone did this, the seller would be affected heavily.
And then he may or may not stop making it.
And I'm perfectly ok with that too.

If you are into THAT, maybe.

>source needed

Friendly reminder that iTunes and Spotify would have never existed without piracy

I'm selling my poop for $100. If nobody buys it, did I lose $100 in sales?

The official term that should be used is Lost Potential. But they don't use that term because that equates a pirate'd copy to literally any other reason for a failed product. like not being the better option, or being an expensive good over an expensive or even cheap necessity.

Lost sales is just a meme so that they make people feel bad for the creators, but the problem is lost potential is better because it's not a joke - it's less sensationalized

What is the difference?

Take a movie for example.
It sells 1million tickets or whatever.
But 10million has seen it for free.

Another movie sells 1million tickets.
But nobody bothered to look at it online.

The first movie have "lost" more money than the other.
In the real world, sales doesn't go down on heavily pirated movies.
People make more money on movies now than they did back when copies were done manually.

As I see it, piracy is the free market responding to a demand.
In this hypothetical scenario, 10 million people found that the best way to get the movie was to download it.

If there was an easy, cheap way to get the movie digitally, people would choose that over piracy, even if there was a price.
A good proof of that is streaming sites like netflix.
The quality is poor, the content is decided by someone else and it is worse than pirating in every movies was 10 years ago.
But it is easy, so everyone has a netflix account now.

But netflix doesn't cover everything, so either you have to sign up for multiple accounts or just take the easy road and pirate it because you can't get the product anywhere else.

But right now, we have a limitless copyright and people who are not willing to sell their product, so a lot of people just go the easy route to get it.

It's weird, i stopped pirating things years ago and .....

I am not implying that piracy is the only cause behind a product failing, but it can be. If you keep using a pirated product, and many people do so, you are harming the seller and the few people that paid for the product (seller failure == no further product support, updates, etc.). So, in short: you like a product, you use it frequently and you tested it fully after pirating it? You should buy it. If the market decides that the product is shit then it should die, but not because of piracy, because no one is effectively buying AND using it.

I didn't think people were seriously defending piracy on a moral level. It's not strictly stealing but if you had intent to buy but ended up getting a free copy illegally you're obviously hurting the profits of a project you enjoy.

OH LOOK THIS THREAD AGAIN.
People dont understand that the product on the shelf (the DVD/CD/DLC) isn't the thing they're stealing. Someone, usually a shitload of people, put shitload of time making a game or amovie, they got paid, and someone got investors or loans to pay for their work. And these investors or banks expect a return with profit. So if you're pirating a game, not buying it, its not literally a thievery, as original copy is preserved - its not paying for someones job. Which is, in legal words, steal/fraud. Its the same as riding a bus without ticket - its not that you stole something, but the service is provided without paying for it, and this can and will (on greater scale) cause problems, even lead to shutting down a certain studio. OR, IF YOU NOTICE YOU FUCKING FAGS, A LOT OF STUDIOS ARE BEING BOUGHT BY EA/BETHESDA(Zenimax), which is major cause of shitty gameslike mass effect 4, dishonored 2 etc. Because they're lead by financial divisions, not game devleopers - ergo, the cheapest they can do something, th ebetter it is. Only real harm is to users and people who work on these titles, big fishes from companies are still getting paid. And thats why i dont bitch when i need to pay 20 - 40 bucks for a dvd.

You're only hurting their profits if you copy their work and sell it for your own benefit. That can actually count as lost sales since the people who bought from you would probably has bought it from the company that made it. It's not a lost sale if you pirate it and play it, there was never a possible sale in the first place.

No, because nobody was interested in said product.
If you pirate something you clearly show interest in said product.

I conditioned it around the fact that you would have bought it. Sure. If you pirate stuff you'd never touch otherwise that's not a lost sale. But if you change where you're sourcing the product you've certainly made someone lose a sale.

Wrong.

Then make it harder to pirate your products.

This desu

>The quality is poor

Dunno about that, the 4k content looks pretty decent. Maybe it was shitty years ago but these days it's not bad.