Ironically, systemd wouldn't exist today if we had been using systemd's design philosophy on GNU/Linux from the beginning. In other words, we'd be stuck with outdated technology and only able to replace it if we created another monolithic init system that interacted with everything in exactly the same way systemd does.
Systemd is exploiting the flexibility of its predecessors in order to kill the flexibility we have in the area of init systems. People might like it now, but we're walking into a walled garden. If systemd becomes the standard and everything depends on it, there likely won't be any competition ever again. It would be an extremely monumental task to try and create a systemd alternative.
Newbies here support systemd because they think "it just werks". What they fail to consider -- because init systems probably aren't on their radar to begin with -- is that the reason we all use GNU/Linux in the first place is for the flexibility to do things _ OUR _ way rather than in a way dictated by someone who wants to control us to benefit their own interests.
systemd is inherently against the linux philosophy by forcibly bundling things and allowing other developers to rely exclusively on having it installed. It is literally cancer on the ecosystem.
Liam Rogers
Nobody cares anymore kys
Levi Fisher
You're preaching to the choir
Jordan Clark
I don't care about Linux and it's future though, it's a monolithic kernel with a monolithic init system.
I care more about redox's future desu
Hudson Torres
>walled garden this
William Kelly
Why do the members of the choir attend their church?
Hunter Campbell
>tfw using FreeBSD and don't have to deal with systemd or PulseAudio Feels good, man.
When will Poetering realize that everyone hates his shit?
Ryan Collins
doesn't matter, Hurd is the future anyway
Samuel Sanders
Right Wrong
Lucas Brown
Let me rephrase then: nobody cares enough to do anything about it. At this point, stubbornly using a non-systemd system is just silly. Get with the times, gramps.
Nolan Robinson
What's wrong with PA? Since it has become standard for most distros I haven't had to mess around getting audio to work out of the box. It just works tee em.
Nicholas Powell
Some people enjoy writing a number to a file in order to change their audio output device.
Joshua Davis
>being docile and accepting injustices
Jace Powell
...
Lucas Myers
Can I shill Void linux now?
INSTALL VOID
Charles Flores
Like systemD, when Pulse Audio and other parts of Linux literally just work, the autistbeards get all flustered. They're not used to their Linux "just working," they're used to spending hours editing text config files manually to get basic functionality so these changes scare and confuse them.
Josiah Cox
systemd is what you get when you make hotswapping a priority and think it should apply to every possible element of a system.
I isn't and it shouldn't.
Aaron Cruz
...
Brayden Barnes
>What's wrong with PA? For a decade or so: Would hog the audio device just by having some app open that didn't even play audio which prevented you from using it as a passthrough device.
This was first fixed in Pulseaudio 10.0 with the module-allow-passthrough module (which you still have to enable yourself).
Also, pulseaudio is a freaking CPU-hog. Right now it's showing 25% CPU usage flat - and this is, again, without actually playing any audio, just by having chromium which opens the audio device so Pulseaudio sees it as an audio source.
but it's also fair to ask > so what is good about pulseaudio
I have a NAS/firewall/home server box that's always on and I've connected it to the surround receiver with SPDIF and I'm using the AC3 alsa plugin. I can play audio on my laptop and get 5.1 out and since it's mixed it doesn't prevent my desktop from playing some alarm or anything at the same time. Networked audio is something Pulseaudio does quite well.
Jaxon Evans
You're right, it's time for Lennart to scrap systemd and make systemm.
Caleb Campbell
Maybe Linux is finally becoming an OS and that is why they're integrating all together.
picture not related
Luis Moore
Thank goodness for systemd.
Gavin Nguyen
>Implying we have only one init system to choose from. I don't think you realize what monolithic means.
Aaron Miller
>redox >Rust homosexual
Asher Gutierrez
>FreeBSD >Leftover Top kek
Zachary Turner
You are wrong.
I run Devuan on my desktop because I care.
I ran Debian for 12 years and I could blindly do apt-get dist-upgrade. That is UNTIL systemd came around. It failed to bring up some hardware and added a useless 1,5 minute pause to the shutdown sequence.
These issues were easily fixed by reverting to sysv as init.
If systemd worked flawlessly I probably wouldn't give a flying fuck but after it forced me to learn more about it (because I had to clean up the mess it made of my PC) I learnt it was a forced meme by RH to try and seize control of the GNU/Linux ecosystem.
Luckily free software is about freedom of choice.
Joseph Lee
>2017 >still being autistic about systemd It's been the default in Fedora for, like, 7 years now? 5 years in Arch and 3 years in Debian. And nothing has happened in this time, RH didn't take over Linux, no maintainer exodus, no problems with the software itself. It literally just works and everyone is fine with it except for a couple of old autists who care more about their image as old-school Un*x hackers than about actual usability.
Brody Anderson
>Newbies here support systemd it seems that I've been away for too long since I remember all this systemd drama and noone on Sup Forums would support this jew idea
Brody Foster
>linux philosophy But what you explained was UNIX Philosophy
Lucas Anderson
>systemd is doing something wrong >better uninstall it instead of researching how to fix it >systemd is shit and anybody who says otherwise is wrong >RONG
Henry Diaz
>better uninstall it instead of researching how to fix it
Why should I pick only one? Uninstalling systemd was literally the way to fix things that broke because systemd was installed in the first place.
Joshua Foster
...
Jaxson Morgan
Are you a Windows user? Because you're eating freedom raping updates like a huge black cawk.
Jaxson Howard
He's right, systemd sometimes does not respect legacy configs. For example, /etc/security/limits.conf isn't respected anymore, you'll need to adjust max_open_files for every systemd service.
John Jones
Well that's just stupid, why can't each service just pull the config from limits.conf?
Ryan Watson
Void is unironically good but needs more compatible software.
Henry Clark
Because obfuscating basic config makes RH sell more support contracts.
Isaac Thomas
*points gun fingers* Sell me on Void. *leans back and lights cigar* *puffs obnoxiously*
David Brown
> freedom raping updates What did he mean by this?
He basically said that systemd has pros and cons, nothing about supporting it. >I guess he doesn't care about the linux philosophy. In some interview he said that he doesn't care about systemd
Carson Sanders
Of course Linus supports systemd because the whole point of free and open source software is freedom of choice. Systemd should be choice. This isn't even a discussion.
Benjamin Ortiz
did you even understand what you said?
Connor Jenkins
Fine be like that, white nigger. I won't bother trying it.
Also, no u
Jackson Fisher
>be not retarded >PA peaks at 0.7% during playback
Aiden White
This
Levi Cox
He literally says it's better than the SysV init.
Zachary Gutierrez
>Yeah, it may have a few odd corners here and there, and I'm sure you'll find things to despise. That happens in every project. I'm not a huge fan of the binary logging, for example. bad things about systemd >I much prefer systemd's infrastructure for starting services over traditional init, and I think that's a much bigger design decision. >If people thought that meant that I dislike systemd, I will have to disappoint you guys. good things about systemd
Can you stop being retarded? It's obvious that he doesn't care much. Also who fucking cares about what Linux thinks? This is not apple or microsoft community where users do exactly what their master wants.
>Complain about systemd >Use a monolithic kernel Something I will never understand.
Brandon Rogers
Systemd was adopted virtually overnight. Systemd is complex and difficult to audit. Systemd relies too much on its modules - they can't be replaced easily due to changing interfaces, complexity, and lack of transparency. Systemd is forcing other projects to be dependent on it Systemd's complexity, large attack surface, and rapid adoption could point to TLA involvement
Gabriel Brooks
>adopted virtually overnight So?
Kevin Myers
All of those except the first one can be said about Linux too.
Adrian Martinez
If Linux used a microkernel all this time and it switched to a monolithic one a few years ago, these same autists would be raging over that too. They just don't know how to handle change, I bet most of them build from source all the time.
Sebastian Torres
So, it's NSA approved. Retard.
Colton Walker
Doesn't that just mean that's it's really secure? Is security a bad thing?
Carson Hall
> Systemd was adopted virtually overnight.
This was totally unrelated to gnome suddenly developing hard dependencies on logind. People just realized the glory of Red Hat software at the exact same time.
Kevin Barnes
>makes baseless tinfoil assertion >apparently I'm the retard
Sebastian Diaz
Nope, but moving the goal post is. Shill.
Josiah Gutierrez
Retard shill. Kys
Benjamin Mitchell
Something is amiss here, it seems we have an infestation of mong. If only it could redeem itself but making cogent arguments.
Cameron Watson
Is there a better alternative?
Wyatt Morgan
>(((coincidence)))
Joseph Walker
You obviously care.
Jayden Bell
>you make a Windows binary >it werks on all Windows versions plus minus 5 years at least >you make a Linux binary >it werks on a specific distro only
Juan Smith
Stupid omission of hyphens is stupid. >you're eating freedom raping updates looks like >you're eating freedom, and that freedom is raping updates while (what was probably intended) >you're eating freedom-raping updates clearly means >you're eating updates, which are raping freedom
Unfortunately there has been a trend(?) in all three languages I know to completely stop using a hyphen at all, which leads to similar nonsense as above. Worst thing is nobody seems to care or even to notice that without the hyphen the sentence takes on a completely different meaning most of the time.
Nathaniel Jenkins
>you're eating freedom raping updates can also mean >you're eating freedom, and you're also raping updates while at it
Leo King
Enter the Void
William Brown
>RH didn't take over Linux But they kinda did, and their grip is getting tighter the more systemd is entrenched and its scope is expanded. You just seem not to notice for now.
Btw Poettering openly admitted years ago that the long term goal of systemd is to build a whole OS around it, and it seems like that is what Red Hat is doing - thing is that OS is not being built from scratch and released once it's ready, but rather it its built in a parasitic way where systemd was shoved into Linux like a wedge and now parts of it are replacing the OS piece by piece, like with the Ship of Theseus. Red Hat will eventually say "oh well, apparently systemdOS is what Linux evolved into, tough luck, deal with it".
Juan Ross
It has the full backing of Red Hat so there's nothing you can really do. They will get there way, they always do.
Ryder Butler
$ shutdown now
Liam Mitchell
>linux is about choice, so we must allow the choice of systemd, even if systemd's goal is removing choice of anything but itself >democracy is about choice, so we must allow the choice of islam, even if islam's goal is removing choice of anything but itself
Looks strangely familiar.
Caleb Perry
>all of these perceived deficiencies are not deficiencies, but are actually benefits
Yea right. Kek.
Ryan Howard
>Pulseaudio just works fucking lold. When I start a program like mpv, while another program like chrome is open, it takes like 10 seconds until audio starts. I have no idea what the fuck is going on there. How the fuck can you fuck something as simple as audio up?
Justin Martinez
>audio >simple
Grayson Edwards
You seem to have a false sense of security here (no pun intended). If something is NSA-approved, it does not mean it's "secure" in the general sense. It means that NSA has comfy methods to exploit it, and ways to secure *themselves* from its exploits.
Lucas Sanchez
...
Julian Kelly
Linux is infested by smelly psuedo politics wannabe turbo turd ultimate losers who don't care about linux except that they think it makes them look "interesting". No matter how much you complain and jack off about these non-problems, even if your semen is starting to turn red, you aren't in a place to decide as to who uses what. This reason is one and the same for the very fact that you have the opinion in the first place.
If you spent all of your time of making an alternative instead of whining like a little bitch, you would solve your own problem and stop posting. However you can't do this because you can't program or even facilitate putting one together with people who can. That is because when you fail as anyone getting into computer science you fill up the time with fake politics because it gives you something to do and fill up your schedule. Note how all "alternative" distros are all flashes in the pan because of this very reason, anyone that has anything to do with them will follow the same inability pattern.
It's not like some company is getting money off these choices, they chose it because it is the best. You are welcome to fuck off and kill yourself and let the rest of the legitimate community carry on. Again, no matter how much you jack off in IRC with other hippies, you are not an authority on linux distros.
Nathan Green
Okay, well fortunately the code is available for everyone to look at. So please point out the NSA exploits for me.
Aaron Murphy
Reddit and shills invaded. That's what happens when you make an interface too user-friendly.
Brandon Ross
Have you even tried searching for a solution? That isn't normal for PA. Also:
Logan Jones
>tfw i don't use systemd feelsgood
Anthony Rivera
Never had a problem with systemd or pulseaudio. I think you guys might all be nuts.
Jace Reed
Isn't the difficulty of doing this one of systemd's criticisms?
Jeremiah Nguyen
BROTHER
Brayden Foster
>reading code is difficult My Pajeetdar is going off.
Matthew Miller
Is dbus systemd? Even on gentoo with systemd,udev, and dbus masked but spawned by firefox somehow?
Easton Murphy
pulseaudio is hot garbage but its still the "best' solution right now. If I wasn't retarded I'd try to write my own system.
