Be european

>be european
>have the most beautiful churches and cathedrals in the world
>don't attend them

How does one explain this?

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it's hard to prop up a ring of pedophiles on the basis that they have pretty churches

Going to Church is boring.

Beacuse after 1000 or whatever years of Jesus faggotry your cunt matures and stops believing in fairie tales.

*tips*

This. I stopped going after I started falling asleep during mass all the time and waking up to the priest staring at me

>Going to Church is boring.

...

But Sup Forums told me Italians, Poles and Spaniards are still Jesusfags in comparison to the more progressive Muslim Western Europe or did they start tipping fedoras as well?

Depends on the region, in the south they are much more religious, but in Catalonia the fedora tipping is getting overboard.

I try to go atleast every fortnight.

not enough holidays for tourism

Yeap.
Over here people are still jesusfags. However, people just go to church because it's a social obligation.

Maybe the church should reform and try to make mass more interesting

Yeah what he said

Nobody in the West is Christian anymore. Christianity morphed into secular liberalism.

like the dancing and negro clapping thing they did in USA?
no thanks

Makes me cringe, man.

>the ancestors of modern day Europeans used to fight in crusades in the name of God, we're very religious, and built these beautiful buildings.

Can't make this up, holy shit, I'm dying, lol. When Europe is 100 Muslim/atheist hybrid mix, people will look at these buildings like how we look at ruins of the Aztecs. They will wonder how they're unenlightened ancestors built those bitches.

Something like golden priests with wooden chalices to golden chalices with wooden priests. My church is rather small but always has high yield attendances.

youtube.com/watch?v=aah_ITLw3R8

(checked)
Doesn't need to go that far ofc

C of E or Catholic? Also whereabouts?

The church had its time in the sun. Time to grow up now lads.

They tried to in the 60s, and it turned into a quasi-protestant joke.

The RCC will never change the core Mass, as it is sacrosanct and their teaching cannot change. Unfortunately it's up to you to get on board, or not. The Bible doesn't change, so the morals it teaches are timeless and don't stop being right. If the Catholic Church changes core doctrine, which it has never done in 2000 years, does that mean it's been teaching the wrong stuff for the whole time prior?

You mean Protestantism?

they don't need to change what is taught, only the way it is done. Unfortunately this is near impossible to be done without corrupting the message

The old churches are all tourist places. So they are still be visited. Or are you telling me you actually believe in that stuff in the current year?

*tips*

honestly making yourself more "modern" doesn't get more people. The people who say they don't go because le social issue of the day still won't go after it's been resolved.

My dad went to Germany and the cathedral there was packed to the brim.

Most Euros feel isolated from God thanks to WWII. For a long time Europe was doing very well and riding high on top of the world. Then they realized that they were nothing. Same thing happens to USA right now. As countries get weak they start losing their faith. However, eventually it bounces back to a different state, nothing ever stays the same forever.

Churches are packed in the US though.

Catholicism was actually seeing rapid growth in the United States in the 40's and 50's, which levelled out just after the Second Vatican Council in 1962.

I don't think so, not usually. It depends on the Church. Same as in Europe and Australia. Some are very full, many are mostly empty and need to go through mergers etc.

Europeans are too rich and prosperous to need such religions with focus on supernatural beliefs.

What faith and zeal they need they find in progressivism or Marxism.

>As countries get weak they start losing their faith.
I'm not sure you can apply this to the USSR and those countries that were formerly part of it. Communism definitely had a hand in killing religion in Eastern europe.

I still go to church regularly.

For books.

True they murdered a lot of religious people. Communists hate religion because they want people to worship their "glorious leader" instead. But honestly, even though they tried hard to kill all the religious they can't kill them completely either. When Buddhist JApan tried to kill Christian there was the "Hidden Christians" who survived. Ancient pagans in Europe also survived and you can see it in the "great yule goat" in Sweden, representing Thor.

Maastricht looks pretty. Do you attend university?

This desu, it's painful watching the European state churches trying to progressivise themselves to try keep themselves relevant. If anything it will have the opposite effect

No.

they're prettier from the outside desu

>But honestly, even though they tried hard to kill all the religious they can't kill them completely either.
No single body can alone but time definitely does. Celtic paganism is a joke in Britain. Christianity will inevitably become a cultural artefact, for better or worse I don't know.

I think in the post-WW2 era people prefer to turn to religion in dire times. I don't think it has the role of social cohesion (arguably more-so conformity) it once had, certainly not here at least

Catholicism is very much based on self-sacrificial discipline. Protestantism is based on self-governance, and being in charge of your own worship, rather than a central Church body making sure you're on the right track.

It's essentially SJW "we know better than the establishment" thinking. Case in point: practicing Catholics will go to great lengths to attend Mass once a week, as they adhere to such an obligation. Even the most practicing Protestants, like my dad, have no qualms in skipping church because they're "really tired" or "too busy".
Or how Protestants claim they're contrite of sin, because they prayed once. Whereas a Catholic makes a real effort not to sin, because they don't want to face the shame and red-facedness of going into the confessional and saying aloud what they've done. I'm not saying Protestants can't really be sorry, but it's a lot easier to convince yourself you're sorry if you don't even have to do anything.
There's also this , the Nordic state churches bend their message to appease the liberal society. It doesn't attract people, it makes people walk over them and not give a shit about religion.

People bring up the idea of Catholic guilt, which is true, Catholic practices do exist to make people seriously consider their sins and follow the faith properly. But that pressure does work in making people think twice about sin, so it's not pointless.

So while traditional Catholic liturgy looks cold, strict and austere from the outside, it must be kept in that reverent way to prevent a casual spirit among believers.

Pic: St Patrick's, the cathedral in my city, and the largest church building in Australia.

Are you reatarded? You don't have to be religious to be in religion class, people do it because it's easier than ethics and there's no exams.

UK in general is going through some major shifts. That's why I said bounce back in a different form. I doubt Brits 100 years ago had any idea what UK now looks like. And similar we don't know what UK in another 100 years looks like. Its a common theory that Islam will rise up in Europe, however that is mostly exaggerated but I think it will be sizeable. There will always be Christians probably. Who knows maybe there will be neo-druids too, or maybe there will be another new NEW atheism movement. We'll see what the future holds together.

this

Nobody believes this whenever it gets brought up, but it's entirely possible that Christianity will come back. People seem to think that everyone was Christian, and then some time in the 1960s they started to become atheists and that's where we are now.

In reality, Christianity in Europe has gone through many phases and fluctuated. In the 1800s around the time, there was a huge movement of Deism. Then before and during WWI, a lot of families came back to Christianity, which is why the 20th century is associated with neat, Christian, church-going nuclear families. It wasn't always like that, and the current drop in religion, although major, isn't something the world hasn't seen before.

It is not inconceivable that religion will come back. Mark my words, over the next couple of decades there will be a resurgence in Christianity as Europeans identify with the cultural roots. It will start as a political act from agnostics and atheists, but if a lot of people hang around churches long enough, some of them are going to take it seriously and see the merit in it.

>It is not inconceivable that religion will come back.

Problem is, now there's an influx of immigration across the EU, of Muslims from the Levant, NA, and SSA. Can you honestly see them full integrating, becoming part of society, and eventually adopting Christianity?

Let's be honest, no one in the EU has any balls to tell the mudslimes to fuck off, and that's just one major obstacle with Christianity gaining a foothold again. While Deism did have a large following, it didn't entirely rule out the existence of God, which modern atheism along with Marxism, seems to do.

Absolutely this. Young people most of all want authenticity. If they leave the church it's because they think it's fake and has nothing to offer them, not because you put electric guitars in and treat worship like a rock concert.

The cause of church decline is general apathy towards spirituality or even doing anything social, moral relativism that tells us a mosque is just as good as a church and a belief that societal progress is the most important virtue, which the church is considered to be fighting against.

With any luck, the EU is on the way out. The UK is looking evermore likely to leave in ten days, and Denmark, France, and the Netherlands are all increasingly dissatisfied with the EU as well. Europe is seeing a rise in right wing politicians with backbone, but with the relevance of WWII fascism to keep them in line. There is a good case for optimism for Europe.

I think though that even if Christianity becomes embraced as an essential part of western identity in opposition to multiculturalism, people are too lazy and too comfortable to bother attending.

Look at Russia where the church was revived from a near non existent shell in the USSR. Hardly any Russians even attend church nowadays, although it's now considered an important part of their identity.

The church is the people not the building.

...

But would it be enough to get enough followers again? People have become too lazy to attend mass (unfortunately I fall into this category), that even though it may be revived, it'll become a cultural remnant, like said.

Who knows. I used to not attend mass, then I did once and have regularly attended since. Most people find it boring, but if people are led to the church, some will find a certain mystery to it, and enjoy going. If they really want to make a statement about standing with their culture, they might attend to be an example to others. If someone becomes a Catholic and takes it seriously, they will adhere to the obligation to partake in Mass weekly (it's actually a sin to deliberately miss Mass).

I can picture a hipster movement of young people attending really traditional churches, getting involved with all the sacraments, and wearing crosses as a vintage culture sort of thing. It's vain but it could lead some to see the beauty in the faith and take it seriously.

Because God is dead and no one cares. If there is a hell, i'll see you there.

>(it's actually a sin to deliberately miss Mass).
I know, it's a mixture of laziness and classes + family issues interfering.

I could see hipsters trying to do it, but it'll probably happen later on, when there are fewer church goers in the West, but if it does, they'll probably cause a minor reaction of people actually attending church and hopefully blossom from there.

byuutifulu

are you not scared of death?

Nietzche talked about something to replace religion right? What can replace it?

Nothing. The Gates of Hades may never prevail against Christ's Church. Nothing in history has united people like Christian practice, and nothing has divided people like Protestantism and Islam.

Because we muslim now, thanks Obama

No I went once and feel asleep woke up everyone was hymning or something freaked me out 2bh so I just got up and left.

Church never again

>tfw you cannot worship/pray in silence anymore because of the activities for tourists are loud
>middle-ages music

Yes, Catholic churches have been reduced to ornaments for tourists to gawk at. Modern Christians are superficial as japs.

At the old tourist churches where I live, they clear out all the Asians with cameras before Mass starts, so they're not roaming around and being annoying. And even between services, it's still as quiet as a library.
And it's not middle ages music, it's distinctly worship music, and people still write songs in that style today. Even in the middle ages, church hymns were their own genre, and grew separately from the development of other mainstream renaissance music. Besides, it's more substantial than shitty modern clappy alt-rock Protestant trite.

Get the printed out booklet with the hymns and readings in it, listen to what they say, and sing along with the hymns. If you aren't actually paying attention and observing the things they do, then of course it's not going to be interesting. But if you get involved and take notice, it can be more engaging.

There need to be better feasts and public celebrations to draw people in, like they had in medieval times. Or like the semana santa processions in southern spain.

there are, but people are not interested.

Not even religious but Protestants are pure cancer. Especially the evangelical kind you find in the US. They're always the ones trying to be hip and cool while doing the most pants on head retarded cringy shit like speaking in tongues.

I am an atheist, but I yearn that with the fall of religion, so also falls many of our traditions. I wish there were some way of maintaining the holidays and community that religion forms, without actually having dogma or supernatural beings.

The holidays won't go anywhere. They're still all celebrated in Europe I'm sure. Atleast Christmas and shit like church for weddings.

Not right ones. Mostly heathen evangelical and non-Episcopal churches

Definitely, to some extent. Though the community and friendliness of the people that often came with religion is being swept away.

Maybe the solution would be if everyone started being as nice as possible, regardless of whether or not people are of their race or religion.

Superior intellect. Not as easy to manipulate.

>be the catholic church
>tax 10% of the wealth of europe every year for 2 millenia
>kill people and generally be a shitter to force people to go to church with their own money
>build nice churches to flaunt the money they stole
>wonder why nobody goes to church when the state doesn't back you up anymore

There are unironically these places called atheist churches where people basically go to church without all the superstition shit. I think they are getting more popular. May look into it.

Plus, the more traditional Protestants in Europe bend to public belief so much that nobody respects them anymore. Their theological laxity has made people throw it all out, because Protestants believe that peoples' worship should be left to them, rather than the church teaching core doctrine, and guiding them to ensure they're on the right track. Catholicism upholds strict principles for adherence, so when people practice Catholicism, they're actually held to account.

>But if you get involved and take notice, it can be more engaging

The only interesting part of the mass is when the priest is doing pseudo small talk called homily. If I wanted to hear interesting stories and experiences, I would just talk to people. I would hear more besides one sided speech and stories I'm not interested in. At times, you would even get something tangible out of it.

Boy you're so wrong. Everyone above 30 here is religious as fuck.

I don't see how it could possibly work. Mass is boring because the only damn part that ever changes is the sermon. You'd need to ditch an hour's worth of rituals and I'm not sure the church would approve of the new 10 minute mass.

Just the south Italians though right?

>People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
>They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected.

– 2 Timothy 3

We know that people will be attracted to the religion's outward form, but deny the core principles of God. The NT tells us this, so that doesn't surprise me. The idea of attending church appeals to them, but actual adherence and rule-following is too hard, i.e. Protestants.

What would an atheist church even talk about? I can't think of anything more pointless. The point of church is to keep your faith strong and commemorate Christ.
>"Morning everyone. Just a weekly reminder that God's not real, in case you were starting to think otherwise. Go in peace to love and serve yourselves."

The priest draws from scripture and is an educated man of God, so it's different from talking to "just some guy." Think of it like a TED talk, he offers his view on how the Gospel reading from that day can be applied to our lives.

The idea is that people want the community aspect of the church. Why do you think a person devoid of religion automatically only thinks about serving themselves?

>unironically quoting scripture
Is this bait?

Central Italians too. And it's not like northerners are fedoras like the French or Germans, they're still pretty religious as well.

If you want a community, join a book club or sports team. I thought atheists liked having no obligations for their religious views.
If atheist churches exist, then their "OR LACK THEREOF" claim goes out the window, atheism is officially a religion which people identify with, study, adhere to, and even make No True Scotsman claims about other atheists.
Yes, I quoted scripture, and am indeed a practicing Catholic. Does it threaten you knowing people like me exist everywhere, think differently to you, and frequent this site?

>attending because the building looks purdy

Lmao USA-North everyone

I wouldn't know because I've never been to church, but I imagine it would be very different from a club. I was under the impression that people in churches take helping eachother and even outsiders seriously. Can't an atheist wish to preserve the beneficial non-religious things about churches?

I go to a Catholic church which used to be Anglican until the locals stopped going there and it was due to be shut down in the mid-70s. Then we (the Polish) took it over.

I go to Latin mass at 8am every Sunday.

It's happening all over the country.

Because Europeans are the most educated people in that planet hence the least religious along with Japanese and so.

What is the point of going inside? They look best from the outside

I don't really want to attend them, I just want to visit them as historical landmarks, much like going to natural landmarks like the Grand Canyon or Niagara Falls.

But the interpretations of bible are changing. It was used to justify crusades, burning the heretics and apostates, slavery and now people try to close eyes on uncomfortable verses of bible and cherrypick only good ones. It's the same to Qur'an actually. The only reasons why do westerners don't have Christian terrorism is that they are too rich and stable.

>I go to a Catholic church which used to be Anglican
Ironic. At least it is still a Christian church and has not been turned into a mosque, nightclub or other dens of sin.

fix my toilet piotr

My local cathedral is indeed beautiful, but every time I go, I just get incredibly pissed off at seeing the tourist shop inside the church.

That's what charities are for. If you're non-religious, don't waste time making rituals for yourself. If I wasn't religious, the last thing I'd be doing is attending mass.
A lot of people have tried to "take the good parts" out of Christ's message, and forget the supernatural miracle afterlife stuff. C.S. Lewis posed a "Trilemma" argument, whereby if you accept Christ's existence and good message, but not his divinity, you therefore believe he was either mentally ill or evil.
Whereabouts in the UK are you? Are there many TLM churches around?
I live in Melbourne, and there's a TLM church in Caulfield North which I visited on Easter Sunday this year. It was full of traditionalist, serious Catholics, unlike the casual Christmas and Easter Catholics you get at modern post-VII churches in the suburbs here.
>implying christianity isn't still big in switzerland, italy, ireland, and eastern europe
Education has little to do with it. U.S. states with high education rankings, like Massachusetts and New York, are also among the most Catholic. It's about upbringing and lifestyle. If the government normalises anti-religious stuff, then people will grow accustomed to doing them and get pissed off at religion for telling them it's wrong. If they are born into an economically prosperous country where everything they need to live comfortably is at hand, materialism satisfies their every desire and they see no need for religion. Plus, a lot of Europe was affected by the Protestant Reformation, which introduced Pushover Christianity™ to millions, and made religion easy to ignore.

>here the state owns every pre-1905 church
>he can do whatever he wants with these churches
>keeps them for money

sad desu

What would you prefer they do with it?

When did religion stop being banned in France?
Give them to religious organisations so they can use them as places of worship?

Why do they have to adopt Christianity? Muslims matter nothing in a case of restoring the religion in Europe. In Russia we have been living together for the last 500 years not talking about MENA Christians living in MENA for ages or tons of countries in Acrica which have 50/50 muslim/christian population both being religious.