European Federalism

strawpoll.me/10602728/r

VERY IMPORTANT POLL

NON-EUROPEANS NEED NOT APPLY, THANK YOU

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Gas orangefags.

>implying Burger aren't going to swarm this

no i wrote they are not allowed in this thread

Remove EU
Empire or bust.

Long live the EU!
Farewell Britannia!

thread theme:

youtube.com/watch?v=pEE58RRFZkM

If you support EU, you're for the extermination of the European race and its replacement with Negroes and Arabs.

I'm gonna fuck your poll like I fucked your mom's mouth last night.

>muh Sup Forums memes
inb4 you start spamming memegraphs about some figures marginally related to the foundation of the EU and quoting eurocrats out of context

m-mods?

Reported for racism

...so how do we fix EU (inb4 by destroying it)?

Let people vote for a EU government.
Protip: they will vote for one that blocks immigration from sandnigger land.

I wrote a proposal here , but the post seems to be longer than the attention span of the people who come here.
Or it may have been a bad suggestion, I don't know.

I'm not sure about the double euro, but I agree about the other things. I would like to have an EU that supports both nationalisms and Euro-pride, saying something like "our culture is inferior" (see sweden) or "arabs are an enrichment" (see germany) should be considered treason against Europe and the Country.

It was the EU that proposed fining member states with hundreds of thousands of Euros for each rejected refugee.

proposed, but didn't pass, lot's of dumb shit gets proposed in our parliament too
it works as intended - democratically

The double Euro is mainly because it is impossible to objectify for people like the Greeks how much they benefit from the EU.
They have been granted an extreme amount of funds, yet fail to look past their austerity measures.
I think there are substantial differences between Germanics and Romance peoples that prevent us from having the same currency, but I do have a great belief in that we should help and support each other, and that the only way we can impact the world in this century is by working together under a strong EU.

i think the biggest issues for the EU are all more or less connected to immigration. so if we could find some kind of consensus on a common line on immigration, it could work. but that will happen only if a compromise is met in between german and swedish retardation and hungarian brutalism. so it all hinges on people making sacrifices to support the greater goal.

*extra-European immigration, obviously

We are not all like Greece, if you want to see who benefit from funds look to east.

Poland is actually making great progress. Any funds going there seem to be a good investment.
Plus they really seem to appreciate the EU for the most part.

Mmm ok Poland is improving but what do we do with Greece?

we keep trying

Other than "muh power", give me one reason why Europe should federalize. LITERALLY ONE valid reason.

Pro-tip: You cannot.

They are improving too, albeit slowly.
Their crisis was mostly the problem of the US housing crisis in general, which completely killed tourism for a while. Seeing as tourism is one of Greece's main sources of income, it was expected that they'd suffer.

The actual thing that caused their problem is a bit more complicated. Bear with me if you're interested, otherwise skip this paragraph.
The Greek government used to support their socialism and net government spending by devaluating their currency every now and then. When a government devalues its currency, the value of all the government loans decreases of course. This makes devaluating an effective way of decreasing your debt, given that it has been agreed upon in your own currency.
The downside to this is that you lose investor's trust. After a few devaluations, investors will note that their loans aren't actually returning as much as they'd hoped, and will only offer more loans if the government pays them a higher interest.
Now Greece joined the Euro. The Euro had much higher stability and credibility, so suddenly they were able to receive loans with much less interest on them, creating the illusion that they were now able to loan more money for the same price.
Once they hit their old roof however, they found out that they in fact could not devaluate the Euro on their own.

If the southern European countries have their own currency, they could devaluate it all they like. It will still hurt their economies, but in a way less obvious to the general people, and they wouldn't need to receive aid from the north with austerity measures attached. In short, it would decrease discontent with the EU, allowing us to keep everyone on board.

If I haven't lost you by now, congratulations for reading all this. Hope it was interesting, but I think it might be too complicated for some people.

give me one reason why the netherlands should be a country.

>muh power

my friend "muh power" is, like, 90 percent of politics.

>greece
>greece
>greece

>all u southern cunts

yea fuck off we got more industry than france and uk

>individual countries can no longer think for themselves or become empires in their own right

Please remove eu

Kill yourselves.

You hold back your own country and your own people. Everyone fucking laughs at us because only in Europe and in America do we oppress the majority population and their heritages.

Krauts, please. Stop trying to invade Yurop
T. Spain

I don't mean it like that, I think more Southern European countries would like to devaluate their currency.
Don't you have solidarity with Greece and Spain?

>burglar tries to break into a house
>it's impossible
It must be a nice burglar after all.

>If the southern European countries have their own currency, they could devaluate it all they like. It will still hurt their economies, but in a way less obvious to the general people, and they wouldn't need to receive aid from the north with austerity measures attached. In short, it would decrease discontent with the EU, allowing us to keep everyone on board.
I don't think we have so many common interests plus it would damage our trading with the north and our banks. I would put in the second euro zone the east and not the south as Greece is closer to countries like Romania then to Italy, we could wait few years until countries like Poland will be ready for this new currency and create a second euro-zone.

you're swiss, right? so you know where the "parler" in "parliament" stems from? they are supposed to be discussing dumb ideas there. that's how you find out that they are dumb.

>creating more special snowflakes like UK
Sorry mate, but you're either in or out.

>more Southern European countries would like to devaluate their currency.

if we were to get back to lira our country would fall apart from interests, stop memeing you ignorant fuck

That could also be a solution tbqh.
As long as Greece is able to devaluate their currency, yet still somewhat experiences the benefit of a common currency, it's fine with me.
Spain seems not to like the EU too much either, though.
I'm not proposing everyone to go back to their old currencies.

>I'm not proposing everyone to go back to their old currencies.
it would be even worse since OUR central bank would have to handle those shitholes with no economy

I clicked no4 because I like red.

Alright, Italy is significantly different from Spain and Greece in the way that it might not want to devaluate its currency.
It just seemed nice to have a more geographical way to divide the Euro.

>geographical


that's why Sup Forums can't into economics

There isn't much benefit for federalization.
I gain nothing by transferring my government from Riga to Brussels.
I won't even meme about scary eurocrats or anything. Foreigners have proved to be poor governors of my land.
There has to be a mechanism to keep the central government in check and it is absent in a fully federal Europe.

Mate, I ceded my point. The correct way to respond would be to agree, not to rub it in and punish me for taking a reasonable stance.

The british are European traitors. Good riddance to those pompous fucks

i'm aware that i'm kind of pulling a "no true scotsman" here, but you have to admit that noone knows exactly what a federalized EU would look like. it would obviously be quiet different from what it is now. so, honestly, if someone can come up with a functioning system, a sensible constitution etc, i would support it. i think if power was distributed to evrery member more fairly, and not based on economic influence, everyone would gain uiet a lot.

fuck this never happened to me before

>NON-EUROPEANS NEED NOT APPLY, THANK YOU
You just made it so all Amerifarts and Faggy leafs post in the pole.

Great job OP.

I am ready to bet that your poll already made it to Sup Forums and they are going to troll the result.

You are german.
Of course you'll have a voice in a federal europe. You'll probably be at the heart of it.
I can almost guarantee no one caring about interests of estonians or latvians. For example, there are more people living in Berlin, than there are in Latvia and Estonia combined.

I agree with you about the no one knows how it would look part, however, there has to be a reason for it to be established.
The question shouldn't be "How a federal europe would work?", but rather "Why a federal europe is needed?".

:)

Yes, I'm Swiss. It wasn't just a dumb idea, it was a very destructive idea.

that's why it was rejected

a federal europe is no necessity, no more than a federal germany is. we could all focus on our national efforts, we could even be very successfull in doing so. we have a right to do so. but we also have a right to work together, to form a community where we help one another out. why should we do that? because, i, personally, feel very at home throughout all of europe and i would like political reality to reflect that. that's all. i feel like a european, therefore i want to live as a european. i want to be able to hop on my bike and drive all the way from munich to kiev without ever feeling like i am leaving the place where i belong. and everyone who disagrees with me, who doesn't feel at home anywhere other than his country, is just as right as i am.
>I can almost guarantee no one caring about interests of estonians or latvians

that's why i would require a voting system that respects the requirements of smaller nations. i don't know what you could base that on, but im sure it's somehow possible. i feel like the german-franco dominance in the eu right now is not just at all. that would have to be one of the very first things to be rectified.

>no one every proposes dumb shit in the Swiss parliament

You can't always win when bad people with bad ideas are around. It's better to leave as long as you're not damaged.

>i, personally, feel very at home throughout all of europe and i would like political reality to reflect that. that's all. i feel like a european, therefore i want to live as a european. i want to be able to hop on my bike and drive all the way from munich to kiev without ever feeling like i am leaving the place where i belong.
I love you Hans.

Non-Balkanians are foreigners to me. I just don't see the point.

this

i love you too, mario

Great post tbqh.

In that case, spread that message of peace and understanding, brother.
I wish there were more people like you in the world.

happy to hear I'm not the only one who feels that way

Your opinion is based on feelings. When you are in kiev and you arent from Ukraine, you are a foreigner and that is not going to change never. Your home is germany not Europe.

>you are a foreigner
youtube.com/watch?v=H1KWtG66lEQ

You're ruining the peaceful moment of daydreaming the guy brought on with his demagoguery and idealism.
Shoo.

>demagoguery

and in germany my home is nürnberg. and in nürnberg my home is the barrio X. and in my barrio X my home is the street Y. and in the street Y, my home i the house Z. and in the house Z, i have a spot in the kitchen where i am the absolute comfiest. and none of these truths contradict each other. the further i stray from my "home", if you would like to imagine that as a singular point on a map the more of a foreigner i become. but that doesn't mean anything. there is no adequate word in the english language for the german word "heimat". i could explain it better if i could use "heimat" instead of home.

>i want to be able to hop on my bike and drive all the way to the next welfare state
Me too hans.
We're all european after all.

>Rat_Race
Ah shit man, thats one of my favourite movies when I was a kid, I dont watch movies at all these days, but seeing that image makes me want to watch it.

>give me one reason why the netherlands should be a country.
Because all of its inhabitants share a culture, customs and a history.

Now tell me what someone from Amsterdam and someone from a Romanian village in bumfuck nowhere have in common.

>tell me what someone from Amsterdam and someone from a Romanian village in bumfuck nowhere have in common
They can have a child together.

There are some countries that are more amenable to the idea of a federal EU than others, there is nothing stopping some countries going forward in a unifying effort while others watch from the side to see if it works, obvious first guinea pig should be Poland

a fuckload. they have been through the era of enlightenment, through the thirty years war. they have fought against and lived under the romans. they have similar traditions in many ways, many of which stem from the same religious background. they have been part of the renaissance (maybe not as a main factor, but they have been there). they have been at the heart of a world war not once but twice. they write in a similar alphabet. they have contributed to european schools of philosophy, literature, architecture, engineering,... they have their root in classicism.

there are hundreds of things they have in common, but we don't normally see them because they are so highly ubiquitous to us.
i think a businessman from amsterdam has more to do with a businessman from romania than a businessman from amsterdam has to do with a beggar from amsterdam.

god not poland. if it doesn't work, the butthurt will be unimaginable. and if it works we'll get to listen to poles babble about how their fathers were "european pioneers" for hundreds of years to come. and the worst part is that they wouldn't even be wrong.

The Eternal Teutonic strikes again, this time he eyes continental domination!

Beware the Kraut and his Germanic trickery

I could almost see myself getting behind something like your vision. Not having my country join of course, but not loathe it like what I fear the EU is becoming.

I fear that both the french and the german elites don't share your vision, and that they have no interest in letting go of their dominant position.

Please don't spread antipolish propaganda.

This, thank you.

Reconquista 2.0: kick kraut out of Iberia when?

one can dream

And it's a nice dream. I just don't expect it to become real.

When this shitshow of a union starts to collapse and the Germs get more tyrannical to stop more countries from leaving

>European federalism
You mean Germany+France and the rest as vassals? No thank you.

that's what makes it a dream.
also, nice digits

Ok, it seems Germany will start a new world war.

Do you wanna lose another World war?

That's Warmany for you.

it doesn't have to be a world war

And what do you want? Clinging to regional national identity when there are one billion Chinese and one Billion Indians and 300M USians and 150M Russians?

We're only 11 million, senpai.

We will be in the next, Dont worry. You didnt suffer a civil war.

Yes. That's exactly what I want.
The nations of europe can ally themselves without becoming a union.

History says they can't.

History also says they can't be united.

The nations of Europe are lost without a common cause. I mean, I'm OK with Switzerland remaining outside of multi-national organizations, that's your thing, you are in the middle of Europe, you can allow yourselves that.

I am not closing myself the door of Superstates but not with Yurop. We can make a political union with our olds colonies, it is better and is more natural because WE REALLY SHARE CULTURE AND LANGUAGE.

you really think you and i have less in common than you and a mexican or argentinian?

but we are more united at the moment than we have ever been before, senpai.

We are closer to Latin america than Europe. In fact, My region is very close to latin america culturally speaking. Their accent came from my region and our culture is more or less similar.

>they have been through the era of enlightenment
The Netherlands has only been a true democracy since 1917, Romania didn't embrace the "Enlightenment" until after the Cold War. Yeah... nice. We have about 2 decades of history in common in the broadest sense of the word. Considering the American Constitution drew inspiration from the Dutch Republic (among others), we might as well sign up to become the 51st state?

>Thirty Years War
Yeah... nah. First of all there was no Romania back then, second of all Wallachia (the closest thing to Romania) was too busy with the Ottomans to bother with the Thirty Years War. Thirdly, it's A FUCKING WAR. We went to war with Indonesia all the time. Do we need to sign up to become an Indonesian province too?

>Muh world war
Yeah.. the Netherlands was neutral in the first, and the second means we can now sign up to become a Russian Oblast?

>They write in a similar alphabet
You mean like the Vietnamese? Should we sign up to ... you know where I'm going here.

>they have contributed to european schools of philosophy, literature, architecture, engineering
Name one Romanian contribution in every field that affects me in the Netherlands. No googling. Also, I can also name such examples from a shitton of non-European countries.

>They have their root in classicism
Just like Turkey. 100% European!

>there are hundreds of things they have in common
And a thousand things that estrange them from us. Yet only a Europhile retard could claim a Romanian and a Dutchman have as much in common as someone from Rotterdam and someone from Groningen.

have you ever been to latin america? i haven't so I'll ahve to take your word for it.