>"just go back and fight, you call yourself men?"
"just go back and fight, you call yourself men?"
The Russians fought in worse.
>"if I was a Syrian I'd be in Syria fighting, refugees are cowards!"
the fact that it came to fighting was their fault in the first place, T B H Achmed.
>all Syrians are one collective mind in terms of politics, religion, and intersectionality and they should all die because the government decided to destroy the country after some protestors didn't like the government
Great thinking.
pffffrrt, Germany looked alot worse after ww2 and we are doing ok now
this is true. russians don't quit, no matter how hopeless the situation.
but goddamn... that's insane. looks like warsaw post-wwII. nothing left at all. i shudder at the thought of this happening to where i live. who said that wars were more civilized nowadays?
great Straw-manning. They had ciontrol of where their country went and they led it down this path do they deserve to die for it? no. but is is anyone else's fault? No. Do they deserve entry and benefits everywhere because they demand it? Absolutely not.
you brought this upon yourselves Achmed Ibn-Talib
You just said its their fault that the fighting started. How the hell did the average Syrian help start this war?
Dumbfuck, go be edgy somewhere else.
And it's funny you complain about straw manning while calling me Ahmed. True blue retard
ahmed... stop shilling
>How the hell did the average Syrian help start this war?
By aiding and abetting violent opposition forces to their government with little regard for how things could turn for the worse. lookup "Responsibility" and get back to me, Achmed Ibn-Talib Al-Mansour.
They think our food is shit, our country is shit, our people are shit, our asylum centers are shit, that they have to be processed there and are not just given a contraband of cash and an apartment is shit, also the other refugees are shit and even shit is shit.
Either Finland is a worse hellhole than that, or they're not from a real hellhole at all. The fact that they are booking flights back to wherever in numbers says a lot of their quest.
syrian people never had control of their country
welcome to dictatorships
but they did. Had they done something to prevent their fellow citizens from starting a violent civil war, Syria would not be where it is today.
not trying to be a dick, but the syrian civil war started in 2011 as protests against assads regime. the instability caused by this did play a part in what has happened in the recent years.
though i doubt any of them would've thought that it would get so blown out of proportion and turn into international crises like it did. so i can't blame them. it's just a shame, syria was one of the better off countries in the mid-east. they probably won't see peace or stability for decades
They left their women back in that mess while coming here.
They're lower than scum.
Are you underage ? Did you drop out of high school
sounds more like you, Pierre. Had they aided the government and stopped the guys with the guns from starting a war, they would not be in the shit that they are in today.
>spot the sandnigger
Why do you get into a discussion when you have clearly no idea about the situation syria was in at the time ? You don't sound smart, you clueless westerner ass who read 3 threads about the civil war in Sup Forums is showing, it's not that subtle
425
Found Trudeau.
You know there are cities in Syria that aren't shitzones
you are not presenting any arguments to the contrary and are instead flinging insults, to indulge the Sup Forums: this is why people think you are subhuman. The fact remains that had the Syrian people not started a civil war in a hotspot for Jihad, Syria would not be a mess. I can't believe I have to connect those dots for you.
Yes go fight, form army and if you dont have enough men just go full partisan like we did to fucking nazis
trudeau pls go
You are truly the west's greatest ally, Pinochet.
He's right tho, most of us won't have balls to fight in civil war. I personally value myself more than my country
Some of them HAVE aided the government idiot. There are still people on Assad's side. It all started going to shit when Assad decided to bring in Iran and Hezbollah to the mix. Yeah the terrorists were funneled money by the Gulf countries but it's not as if Assad is some lone hero standing tall against Western oppression.
It's a retarded argument, one that relies on the implicit assumption that the lives of men are worth less than the lives of women.
BUT that is no excuse to take in Syrian ECONOMIC MIGRANTS. A real refugee stops running the moment he reaches safety. Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and Cyprus are all safe options. Germany is a LITTLE further away.
yeah I can agree on that but Turkey can't do it alone. They've asked the EU for infrastructure money
ft.com
If Merkel and Brussels can force the rest of Europe to fork over hundreds of billions of euro to greece then they've surely got 3 billion lying around for turkey
Just wanted to add that Jordan and Lebanon are full. If anybody should handle more of the burden it should be the Gulf Arab countries, not Jordan who've been taking in Palestinians and Iraqis for decades or Lebanon, a country whose stability rests on equal demographics.
>Some of them HAVE aided the government idiot
too little, too late and not enough in Damascus did anything.
>it's not as if Assad is some lone hero standing tall against Western oppression.
not implying this, only stating that ist was the Syrian people who rose in armed revolt and thus started this war. It's their responsibility to end it. no one else's.
That gif is depressing. Assad is a monster and a threat to world peace.
Add to that the fact that 90% of them are men between 18-35 so that means they either cowardly left heir families behind, and/or are not from an actual war zone and just got "sent" here to mooch Hartz IV (dole money) to send back to their families
Your countrymen brought this upon yourselves when you took Saudi and Qatari money and American arms to start a "civil war" against your oppressive government. At least back then you had a country, look what you're left with once you've sold yourselves to the highest foreign bidder.
Closest I've ever seen to that where I live was after a tornado.
I can't imagine anybody being able to live through that shit.
I'll give the contrary argument.
Assad wasn't allowing free peaceful demonstrations. Assad's men were the first to fire on crowds.
Now if Obama were to order the national guard to fire on you during a peaceful protest, would you simply sit down and take it? I sure as fuck wouldn't.
Unfortunately we armed people because it's what we do, and some of the people armed became religious extremists, because that's what happens in that neck of the woods.
This. Places like Wesel were almost removed from the map by bombing.
>FUCKING COWARDLY SYRIANS, GO BACK AND FIGHT!
>IF THE FUCKING SYRIANS HAD JUST NOT STOOD UP TO THEIR GOVERNMENT, THEY WOULD BE FINE!
take ur pick lad
You're welcome for that.
>Now if Obama were to order the national guard to fire on you during a peaceful protest, would you simply sit down and take it? I sure as fuck wouldn't.
If i were in a region where one just has to look around and say hey, there's a group of even worse people just waiting for us to start shit so they can get in on it and cause even worse shit, yeah, actually I would. I am not saying the gov't is in the clear here. I'm just saying that the civil war started because people made that jump to armed conflict without thinking of the repercussions and are now dealing with said repercussions, thus I feel no sympathy for them.
neither,
I pick, think out the political consequences of a civil war before you start one or be prepared to deal with the repercussions of doing so on your own.
t. American who watches American news
Russia is still the enemy
Iran are terrorists
Your government loves you
Don't question them
>great grandfather fought at passchendaele
>grandfather fought at arnhem
>father fought in the falklands
Hopefully I won't have to, unlike Ahmeds male relatives which going back 4000 years fought for the right to fuck goats.
the same Damascus where Syrian civilians got sarin gas'd in Ghouta? Why would people fight for a leader who does that kind of shit to them?
>It's their responsibility to end it. no one else's.
Assad started the war by ordering troops to fire in the first place. Some of them did, and some refused and defected, which how the war started. Assad is directly responsible for that. Regular people lost faith when they were being shot at.
post more please
They're given free everything and allowed to stay in hotels for free on a government allowence for extras here too, and they're also still bitching because the hotels aren't "nice" enough.
Some who were settled into apartments are crying that their mean neighbours are complaining to landlords because their children spend all day screaming and jumping around in the building. These people have no redeeming qualities.
>Some of them did, and some refused and defected, which how the war started
because they had armed groups that rose up to defect to. I am not deflecting responsibility from assad. but this is their country, and those were their armed groups that were formed and the actions of those groups, made up of Syrians, with no regard for the political consequences, started this.
They end it, or they end up a colony.
You talk like a Muslim.
>Implying the collapse of society doesn't breed those types by the thousands.
If Syria was still stable, and Assad stepped down ISIS could have easily said goodbye to most of their members.
And if something happened in the US, we would have the same problem with radicals. It might not be religious, but there would still be militant radicals.
>people ignoring it's a civil war and not a war against a clear enemy
Oh yes please tell me how enjoyable it is to kill your own country men for Assad or the FSA.
Holy fucking shit you deserve to be killed
>they shouldn't start a civil war
They should just let themselves be gassed?
This is entirely the west's fault, you can't just destroy a country and not expect the people to leave
Like I know conservatives have lower intelligence but this is just shocking
...
Daily reminder that if you don't support Assad you don't know enough about the conflict.
Wow OP you really made me think...
W-wait what do you mean Akmed? You are telling me that you left your wife in that shithole? You say you will bring money back to her you swear? But Akmed you can have free housing here and who is that 5 year old you are holding hands with she does not look related to you!
Not him, but would you ask a female refugee the same thing about the husband she left to die? Of course not.
It sort of helps when your neighbour is still reeling from the loss of the best source of political stability it had (Saddam). this should have been a factor that was thought of before launching a war against the Syrian military.
no, they should have aided and abetted in preventing the formation of armed groups. going for a political assassination/coup while not attacking your military force which is keeping the Jihadists in check would have been a more responsible option, but instead they started a civil war, attacked the main force keeping political stability andessentially invited the founders of ISIS to do their thing. You can delude yourself that the West somehow did all these things, but i think that would really illustrate who is of a lower intelligence here.
Some nations are simply better off with dictatorships and can't simply adopt Western style democracy from one day to the other, it's naive to think it will "just work"
In such places where education level is low and poverty rampant, things will eventually lead to civil war if a strong figurehead who keeps things together isn't present. The uneducated, poor mobs are too prone to fall for Salafist propaganda and promises and will elect them, see Egypt
In the whole 40+ years Assad and his dad reigned the place, there was less bloodshed than in the last 5 years
There's not a been a single positive outcome of the so-called "Arab Spring" this far, mayyybe Tunisia, but things are still very fragile there, lots of terrorism and shit keeping away tourists, which in turn will re-increase poverty and therefore play into the hands of the snackbars
Best example I came across is some of them declining an apartment on a top floor of a commieblock because it could get "too hot there" (sic!)
Fucking Ayyrabs that are used to 50°C and more complaining about our rare and mild summer heat? Ridiculous
apparently, in the case of syrians especially, the whole "free everything" is a big source of their frustration. very many of them just want to work and try to start living again, but most european countries have very inefficient processes in place that prevent this and would rather force "free everything" on them.
And honestly, the free everything is rather shit.
...
Nobody cares about women and children. It's predominantly men who will commit crimes.
>It's the government's fault
Yeah because they shot their own police members with snipers during protests just so they could fire back into the crowd.
>it's a shitskin diaspora in Canada thread
Looks like Chánov
>preventing the formation of armed groups.
>going for a political assassination/coup
>without armed groups
>while not attacking your military force
>but also killing leaders and "performing a coup"
what the fuck? You want the results of violence without violence.
You want unarmed citizens to fight a powerful government backed by Russia, and a terror group backed by Turkey led by a man released from US custody as "not a threat", but to do so non-violently as if "starting a civil war" is a conscious thing like pushing a button in a video game
fucking poltards
>with no regard for the political consequences
>hey let's stop and think about the consequences of resisting being shot during our protest
It's fucking cruel to say that the army shouldn't have defected. What would you have done in their spot? Seriously, military culture is ingrained in parts of the Arab world and ordinary people rely on them to keep the government in check because they live under dictatorships.
It's easy for you to say "talk shit get hit" but we have comfortable lives here. There wasn't any sort of high council that planned anything. The government fired and people fired back. The whole preventing tyranny bit in our constitution was carried out in Syria but somehow they've done something wrong. Like I keep saying, the armed groups at the beginning weren't sophisticated forces like they are now.
>I am not deflecting responsibility from assad.
You're doing exactly that by saying that the people who fired back in the first place had something to lose other than their lives
...
Yeah I'm not going to respond to that guy anymore. He's hiding his support of Assad by saying that ordinary people started it. Fucking idiot that.
>be Sup Forumstard
>come to Sup Forums expecting agreement
>what the fuck? You want the results of violence without violence.
wrong. I want the political results of minimal, targeted violence, using minimal targeted violence. I have specifically and repeatedly stated I do not want the civilians fighting the gov't at all, I want them using politically responsible methods that don't invite Jihadists to run rampant. If you can't understand that, don't bother continuing to try, you're just making yourself look worse.
Horrible conditions are not conditions in which you are entitled to make other people's lives horrible. Social justice is cancer and it is Syrian's duty to claim Syria for whatever form it may take, bar none.
>The Irish shouldn't have fled the potato famine they should have starved
>The Scots shouldn't have fled the highland clearances they should have just let themselves be genocided
>Germans shouldn't have fled to the midwest US they should've just starved
>Russians shouldn't have fled the USSR they should've just let themselves be gulag'd
>Jews shouldn't have fled the holocaust they should've just let themselves be holocaust'd
>Syrians shouldn't flee Syria they should just let themselves be bombed
Fuck off teenagers you wouldn't fight for shit, if anything went down in the west you would run. Just because you play shooter games and go on pol doesn't make you a fucking cowboy.
>You're doing exactly that by saying that the people who fired back in the first place had something to lose other than their lives
they did. they had their country to lose to radical jihadist forces. they did not consider that, they were unprepared for it and started a wart anyway. I don't give a shit if it is cruel, it is true.
I am trying, this whole thread to say
do NOT start a civil war without considering the consequences specific to your situation
If you DO start said war the consequences are on your head and your head alone (lookup responsibility sometime, huh?)
If you think it is stupid or cruel to expect people to consider the consequences of what they do before they do it, you are an idiot. plain and simple.
ITT: Heartless motherfuckers that don't deserve to be called human
>I do not want the civilians fighting the gov't at all
>using minimal targeted violence
Can we all at least agree that at this point in time, if the rebels defeated the government it would be a disaster for everyone? The regime held areas are the only ones in the country with any semblance of of structure and security. Ethnic minorities are protected by the government while the most powerful rebel groups (al nusra aka ISIS-lite and the Islamic Army of Conquest) are calling for the outright genocide of ALL alawite and other ethnic minorities in the country?
Western media outlets would lead us to believe that rebels are still fighting for democracy. The sad truth is that dream died long ago with most of the ACTUAL moderate rebels. The only moderates left (Southern Front) haven't even fought the government in months.
Assad is a piece of shit, but he's the best piece of shit there is right now. Any other group coming into power will lead to genocide and even more immigrants.
assassination =/= open fighting.
>MINIMAL
>TARGETED
>VIOLENCE
the only "good" way this ends is a truce between Syrian gov't forces and rebel forces to stamp out ISIS. and then Syria balkanizes.
You seem to think people got together and said "let's start a civil war" instead of just firing back to save their own lives
You also seem to think that ISIS was already a threat before the rebellion started and that people ignored it
Fighting started in '11, ISIS didn't take territory until '14
You really think people were like "hey guys let's civil war and ignore isis" that is why this is the only website in the world where people think like you, because you're fucking retarded
That truce probably won't happen though considering the most powerful rebel groups with the most support are no better than ISIS themselves.
Russian land invasion when.
no, I think people organized armed groups and started a war. and now they are dealing with the consequences of that war. I think they made the choice to begin openly fighting in organized groups and are now paying the price of the consequences they were clearly not prepared to face.
>(al nusra aka ISIS-lite and the Islamic Army of Conquest) are calling for the outright genocide of ALL alawite and other ethnic minorities in the country?
And ISIS has razed Kurdish villages. Why do jihadi groups attack Muslim non-Arabs? I thought they wanted everyone to be Muslim.
Says the guy from the country supporting IS.
definitely not hypocritical.
>says the t*rkroach who probably frequents refugee forced-prostitution refugee camp brothels
>You also seem to think that ISIS was already a threat before the rebellion started and that people ignored it
I think that they were already a nascent group in the region to whom the Syrian Civil war was a gift.
Lack of education and brainwashing of young adult males who are emotionally vulnerable after the loss of family from conflict would be my guess.
>Western media outlets would lead us to believe that rebels are still fighting for democracy
We barely see enough of Syria for the media to even have us "believe" something. Sure there's a certain narrative but it's not like we're being bombarded with information like it's Iraq or something.
>Any other group coming into power will lead to genocide and even more immigrants.
Genocide is already happening. ISIS and the others are bad but time and time again Assad can match all of their levels of brutality combined. Between bombing the shit out of Doma, sarin gassing Ghouta, the Ceaser Reports, targeted genocide would probably kill a lot more people than what Assad's doing.
>Ethnic minorities are protected by the government
and what about the majority of people who aren't?
And you expect people to have the foresight to say "wait, let's not attack the government that's killing us because amidst the chaos a third party might swoop in"
You actually expect people to know what's going to happen
You can sit here with your 20/20 hindsight and act like you're better but in their situation you would do the same thing
the Russians are on the verge of doing that.
this will likely end with Syria becoming even more of a Russian satellite state.
>And you expect people to have the foresight to say "wait, let's not attack the government that's killing us because amidst the chaos a third party might swoop in"
When said third party is right next door and has a hitory of violence in the region there is no excuse for ignoring them.
>You actually expect people to know what's going to happen
wrong, I expect people to think
I expect people to take responsibility and control of what is happening around them
on both fronts I am always disappointed. just look at this latest election
i can't see this war coming to an end soon. Even if Russia rolls in with their invincible tanks it won't be enough for a total victory. They can't even contain Chechnya so how are they expecting to contain a whole fucking country?
And of course there's some teenage Sup Forums shithead shitting up the thread.
>They can't even contain Chechnya so how are they expecting to contain a whole fucking country?
this is the Russians we are talking about, with a general lack of regard for Human rights and enough apathy I think that unfortunately they go for the throat on the issue and kill anyone they deem a "threat"
that article is precisely the western narrative I was talking about. They got their figures from the SOHR, a blatantly pro-rebel organization run by a single man in london. They didn't report a single civilian killed by rebels for the first two years of the war. The reality is that the government AND the rebels have both killed more people than ISIS. Govt has an air force and bombs rebel held areas and rebels indiscriminately shell government help neighborhoods with civilians as revenge. This has been documented numerous times. The govt has still probably killed more people but the numbers are a lot closer than the SOHR would lear you to believe.
Oh and the sarin attacks were also confirmed by the US gov to be faked and done by the rebels themselves.
And you can say that the majority of the population (sunnis) don't get support from the government but that wouldn't rightly explain why the SAA is almost 70% sunni.
Back to the goct bombs before I'm done: The government is doing nothing wrong by killing civilians who are living near rebel frontlines 5 years into the war. They are either actively fighting the regime or actively supporting it. The government has no responsibility to keep any of them alive. They should all be flattened.
Yeah, maybe they should go back to fight
>expecting responsibility and evaluation of the consequences of your actions is Sup Forums shithead-esque
lol.
Please don't post unbiased and logical statements about current events here ever again.
you answered your own question by accident
All it is is racism, white refugee = ok brown refugee = not ok
That's all there is too it with these kids
AQI wasn't considered a threat Bush elected not to attack them and Obama felt it safe to withdraw
what was your granddad doing? Putting on an American uniform so he could be on the winning side again?