Can we admit that chipped credit cards were a mistake?

Can we admit that chipped credit cards were a mistake?

>still possible for crooks to skim the magswipe and make fraudulent purchases
>slow as fuck, 7-15 second processing time at most stores
>most gas station pumps and ATMs don't support it, two of the most common places to have your card used fraudulently
>standard is inherently flawed with known vulnerabilities that allow for impersonation of the chip in a way that looks real to the bank
>many stores haven't implemented chip support, leaving you in an awkward situation where half the time you dip the card and you get told to swipe, and the other half you swipe and the machine blares at you that you're an idiot for not inserting chip

Other urls found in this thread:

cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/unattack.pdf
miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article161716318.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

yes let's go back to using magstripe only given that this tech has been compromised since the 70s

>most gas station pumps and ATMs don't support it,
Where the hell do you live? Fucking ALL ATMs and gas station pumps support it.

>>standard is inherently flawed with known vulnerabilities that allow for impersonation of the chip in a way that looks real to the bank
That's wrong though.

>>many stores haven't implemented chip support,
Also wrong, because stores don't implement them, card readers do, and fucking all support them.

You must either be living in the early 2000s or some third-world shithole.

I don't know what you're talking about, when I go to buy something I normally hover the card for jalf a second in front of the machine and that's it. Americans have it different though?

...

Is this 2008 or something?
What kind of shithole do you live in?

>tfw live in Europe
>wireless payment

I visited America last year and although it was great the payment system felt like a huge step backwards.

Wtf Amerifats explain this bullshit

>Where the hell do you live? Fucking ALL ATMs and gas station pumps support it.
The united states.

>That's wrong though.
cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/unattack.pdf

>Also wrong, because stores don't implement them, card readers do, and fucking all support them.
See above.

Most stores don't have NFC payment support and even for those that do, most banks stopped issuing NFC issued debit/credit cards by 2011 in the USA.

The entire banking system in america is backwards.

In China they don't even use credit cards anymore. Too old school (and unsafe)

t.american

What do they use in China?

>>standard is inherently flawed with known vulnerabilities that allow for impersonation of the chip in a way that looks real to the bank
this is the relevant part
all of that effort in "upgrading" to chip was for nothing

Literally everything supports contactless payments here and has supported chip for the past 10 years. Even shit like popup farmer's market stalls take contactless and it takes less than a second to pay, how backwards can America's banking infrastructure be? It's literally the most wealthy country in the world.

>The united states.
LOL, pretending to be from the US is more like it.

>Most stores don't have NFC payment support and even for those that do, most banks stopped issuing NFC issued debit/credit cards by 2011 in the USA.
I've been in San Francisco 4 times since 2015, I was in Clearwater Beach in 2015, I've been to New York in 2016.

They accept NFC fucking everywhere, and everyone use either that or some mobile payment app. What the hell are you talking about?

Okay, so we had the first credit cards in the world, right? And a huge consumer system. Enter the 90s, it's a pain in the ass to have a large credit card charge made to an imprint plate denied later when you mail the slip in. We have a pretty robust phone system, so we start authenticating transactions online.

Whereas Europe does not have as reliable infrastructure for offline authentication, so in order to prove that a charge was real and a card present, they make chips to cryptographically sign the transactions and then submit the offline stored transactions in batch later.

Enter the early 2000s and infrastructure in the US and Europe has improved with more pervasive broadband. Computers and the equipment to clone magswipes have become cheaper. More and more countries enable chip. The US becomes a soft target.

Finally, the banks work with the networks (visa, mastercard, etc.) to set a standard: if a credit/debit card doesn't have chip, or it has a chip and the merchant supports it, the banks pay for fraudulent charges, as before. However, if a bank issues a chip card and a merchant reads a magswipe, the merchant is on the hook for fraud.

As it turns out, buying a new credit/debit card reader doesn't make you chip enabled, your register has to support the back-and-forth communication too. So many merchants bought new Verifone or Ingenico readers that had chip slots, but their registers lacked the upgrades to process the transactions as chip.

Enter the current shitshow where half the merchants have updated their point of sale to accept chip and half haven't.

He's lying, see Even moving food trucks and farmer markets had payment terminals that supports NFC. He's lying out of his ass.

>most banks stopped issuing NFC issued debit/credit cards by 2011 in the USA.
now that's complete bullshit and you know it
or rather, you don't, since you're not from USA

>Visits major city
Ye bruh he's pretending to be from the US ur rite

>I've been in San Francisco 4 times since 2015, I was in Clearwater Beach in 2015, I've been to New York in 2016.
Do you only shop at chain stores or something? Most chains have become chip enabled now, but a lot of smaller franchises are not chip enabled. And even at stores where NFC is in the card readers it doesn't work reliably.

If you go to a smaller store with Square or Clover readers, NFC works pretty reliably, but not otherwise.

I work at a coffee shop in LA
We have only the mag stripe reader and a nfc for phone pay. Only flyovers have nfc cards.

>>>>many stores haven't implemented chip support,
>Also wrong, because stores don't implement them, card readers do, and fucking all support them.

The companies that make point of sale software are the problem.

>I've been to New York in 2016.
I live there
About half of stores accept the chip and less than 5% support NFC. Only the big chains.

Food trucks and farmer's markets tend to support chip as they will use Square, Clover, etc. hardware to process transactions directly. Stores that integrate their readers to a traditional register often have not. A small grocery chain near me (Stew Leonard's) only chip enabled their registers a couple weeks back (had the readers for chip for years but had to swipe).

A barbeque place near me used to use a reader tied to the register, now he uses a separate PIN pad to process the credit card receipt. You get two receipts, one for the items you buy, and one for the credit/debit card charge.

Not joking. NFC refers to contactless by the way, not the chip you dip into readers (pretty much all cards are now)

Two Amex cards issued by Amex. No NFC contactless chip.
Three cards from Chase. No NFC chips.
Two credit cards from Citi, ONE has NFC contactless.
Two card from Barclays Bank Deleware. No NFC.
Credit and debit card from Wells Fargo. Had NFC chip in the credit card, card replacements from 2012 onwards lack it.
Debit card from Charles Schwab Bank. No NFC.
Credit card from US Bank. No NFC.

I could go on but having twelve credit cards and ONE has contactless, most americans do not have a credit card with the contactless NFC tech anymore.

mobile wallets for everything

Bank of America discontinued NFC cards ~5 years ago, it's definitely a thing; I got a letter in the mail saying mine would stop working. It didn't matter because no one took NFC payments then. I live in a 'major' US city (not SF or NYC) and basically no where takes contactless and only chains take chip and it takes 15-30 seconds to process. Chip is a fucking nightmare, I legitimately get excited when I can just swipe my card or use my phone.

>Credit cards
It's like a small Jew in ur pocket

Meanwhile in Europe...
>no magstripe anymore
>okay speeds
>support everywhere because no magstripe
>unsure
>support everywhere because NO FUCKING MAGSTRIPE

Why does chip payment take so much longer in the US? Isn't it all the same technology? After I type my PIN it processes instantly.

how can a nation that owns half of worldwide wealth have network infrastructure a hundred times worse than post-soviet european shitholes in which people survive on 4 potatoes per week

I have a magstripe but it's blank.
Literally every store that accepts credit cards, accepts chipped cards and I live in a third world country.

When u swipe it still takes time for the network to contact your bank for authorization

In the US we have really great cashback and benefits on credit card purchases that you don't get on debit, almost every card is $0 annual fee, and you don't pay any interest or fees on your purchases if you pay the bill in full every month, so it's worthwhile if you have impulse control and can be financially responsible to use credit over debit.

Basically you can just dump the magswipe context, look up the issuer and send the track data and purchase info over, and get a quick approval on chip, while the chip transaction has more steps for the bank to challenge the chip, chip to calculate response, chip sends response to terminal, terminal sends response to issuer, etc.

tl;dr chip transactions have more back-and-forth communication

Got me, user. It's a fucking shitshow every single time I pay for anything. I've actually started taking out cash because the card infrastructure is so bad.

>The companies that make point of sale software are the problem.
That image is almost as old as the internet.

Bruh just carry a lawyers clip full of notes.

>Clearwater Beach
>major city

It's not about network infrastructure as much as transaciton flow.

miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article161716318.html
>Unfortunately, there are no easy fixes. To connect to card networks, retailers use a countless array of software providers and payment processors. Payments can also be linked to more than a dozen other applications controlling store operations, from coupons to inventory. If not configured perfectly, this tangle of systems and vendors can slow chip transactions to a crawl.
>[...]
>So much complexity means that installing a chip system, or even adding a simple software upgrade – swapping out an audio prompt, for example – can take months. Verifone has come up with new sounds and visual options for its terminals, but Lakshmanan doesn’t expect consumers to begin to see them until the fall.
>[...]
Minor software upgrades might not be enough to speed up transactions in a noticeable way. Visa and MasterCard have come up with faster systems for merchants, such as grocery stores and fast-food restaurants, who want their lines to move more quickly. Visa’s Quick Chip and Mastercard’s M/Chip Fast allow shoppers to insert and remove their chip cards quickly before a transaction is complete. Customers can do other things (such as bag their groceries) while the purchase is processed.The faster systems, unveiled in April 2016 by both companies, are still hard to find in the U.S. About 40,000 U.S. merchant locations were using Visa’s Quick Chip at the end of May. MasterCard declined to say how many retailers are using M/Chip Fast.

Quick chip and Chip Fast basically prompt the consumer to remove the card as the last communication to the chip finishes and the terminal is settling up the final transaction, allowing the person to return the card to their wallet as the authorization settles.

Change that to

>Can we admit that getting the US to use technology in the current year was a mistake?

Over here in Australia nearly all places that accept EFTPOS have tap.

Inb4 lolnointernet. Enjoy your neutrali...oh wait

>walking around with large wads of cash
Enjoy being robbed

I have a wallet I carry regardless, so it's not a big deal to have a couple 20s in it. When I end up with $3-4 in change by the end of the day I want to kill myself though.

here
>get a quick approval on chip
Meant traditional swipe...chip is more complex thus takes longer.

Third world countries set up their processing infrastructure and all the pieces around it for chip. The biggest problem for chip acceptance in the US right now is the number of card networks we have to process transactions (impacts speed) and point of sale software not supporting chip (not something retailers tread lightly on upgrading as it costs a lot of money and carries risk).

That's one thing about Canada that I dislike, loonies and toonies jangling around in your pocket and the smallest bill being a $5. I get that the coins last a lot longer (durability) but having them clang around your pocket sucks.

Maximum comfi

>not using cash
enjoy your botnet

What? Every single store support it. Are you from Africa?

see

My nigga

Having grown up about 40 minutes from the Canadian border, I know that feel as well, Canada-user.

>He can't use chip and pin

Americans are literally retarded.

Is that a rape keyboard? Because there doesn't appear to be any Break on it

A lot of it is chip and sign in the US, for one. And it's not about 'not being able to use it', it's that it fucking sucks to use. It slows down check-out lines about 2-fold, and has not been widely adopted.

>Over here in Australia nearly all places that accept EFTPOS have tap.

Same here in Canada

>Can we admit that getting the US to use technology in the current year was a mistake?

This

Actually, even when a store does offer chip support, we usually can't use chip and pin.

Our debit cards are PIN enabled with chip, but almost all of our credit cards lack PINs for the chip, or have PINs but express preference for signature (e.g. if a signature transaction is possible, the card will tell the terminal to ask for signature, not PIN). Banks thought Americans would find PINs on credit cards inconvenient and switch to a credit card that didn't require PIN entry.

One noteable exception is Target's credit cards, which prefer PIN. Understandable after how hard they got bit during their hack.

>ayo bitch boy gimme dat wad or i shoot yo ass

PayPass/Wave made everything else obsolete, who fucking cares?

Shieet naw nigga das myne

>still possible for crooks to skim the magswipe and make fraudulent purchases
no; mainly because there are almost no places that only use magswipe here
>slow as fuck, 7-15 second processing time at most stores
at most 1 second for me; contactless is almost instant
>most gas station pumps and ATMs don't support it, two of the most common places to have your card used fraudulently
most of those support it
>standard is inherently flawed with known vulnerabilities that allow for impersonation of the chip in a way that looks real to the bank
???
>many stores haven't implemented chip support, leaving you in an awkward situation where half the time you dip the card and you get told to swipe, and the other half you swipe and the machine blares at you that you're an idiot for not inserting chip
literally any store has chip support

Even in brazilian favelas chip and wireless payment works fast
Stay old burgers

America's roll out was stupid. Chip and Pin is actually secure. Chip and sign is barely any better than swiping. Credit card companies fought against it because credit card reward churning is heavily prevented by requiring certain transactions to require a pin.

feels good when you can walk into any store and assume it has paywave

feels good not to live in a backwater shithole

Chip & pin cards are easy af to crack in American stores. Literally all you need to do is put some nail polish over the chip to disable it and dip three times. After 3 attempts the POS will instruct you to swipe. Not every store allows this, but there are enough that do to make it profitable.

Source: I'm a professional credt card thief. Been doing it for years.

Americans are fucking niggers.

that is why there is a leap in contactless cards

i only use apple pay to pay for shit now and its more secure than the conventional contactless tap

if only android have something similar so people would complain less about it. i feel bad for the droidfags unable to use something this simple and powerful

i also dont patronize stores that doesnt have wireless tap, i'm voting with my money

>slow as fuck, 7-15 second processing time at most stores
That's the fault of the store, it's just as fast if not faster than swiping if you go to some place that has something other than retrofitted bullshit with outdated software.

The sad thing is you can put tape over that slot, and have a giant fucking sign that says the chip reader doesn't work, and idiots will still try to shove their card in there.

T. Former retail worker

Our credit companies and banks control the country.

This tbqh.

I just use my Apple Watch to pay for most of my stuff. If it's supported, I use it. So far, that leaves restaurants and most gas stations left to use my physical card. But I'm not worried about fraud--if I ever notice something off I can just call up my bank and everything'll be fine.

My parents got their shit stolen and literally watched as the fraudster was widthdrawing money from their bank accounts each time they refreshed the page. Turns out theres a flaw in Capital One's system that if you call from your registered phone number, there's no extra verification required. So all you gotta do is spoof a phone number and viola, access to a person's bank account. Capital One rectified everything, and my parents got their 50-60K back within the week. We switched to Chase after that; Capital One said there was nothing they could do to prevent that from happening again.

I wiped the magstripe on my credit card so it only works with chip.

If a place doesn't take chip I just have the cashier enter the number manually.

do you ameriniggers not use contactless?

USA problems thread is a better fucking title. The first world adopted chip tech a while ago, moved onto interac flash/tap soon after that. Do some fucking research before you complain with a shitty ass thread

>idiots will try to use technology as they're supposed to
Your retail employer who can't get its systems working properly is the idiot, not your customers

america is 3rd world

>be able to pay without having to enter any code
No thanks. It's as secure as carrying cash.
I prefer chip+pin, its more secure.

Thanks, I was wondering about how this came to be. I was shocked when I moved from Hungary to Germany to study, and there was almost no shops supporting NFC cards.
Also, instead of having a limit on how much you can pay via PayPass without having to enter your PIN, they have this system where you have to manually pre-allocate funds to a bucket (with a maximum of 200 EUR) in your account, from which the PIN-less payments get subtracted from, effectively nullifying the convenience of having PIN-less payments.
Which is more likely to protect your money if you lost your card? The malevolent finder having to go to 10 shops to buy shit valued up to 17$ each time, or having the ability to buy something for 200$ and be done with it in one go? Which one are you more likely to catch onto in time? Such a retarded measure.
I thought westwards universally meant better infrastructure...

itt ameritards can't into 90's technology

>most gas station pumps and ATMs don't support it, two of the most common places to have your card used fraudulently
stop living in buttfuck nowhere

China uses UnionPay, which is a state owned Credit card. They prevented Visa/MC from getting in to the market by making their own credit cards.

Canada there's unionpay terminals everywhere, it's essentially VIsa 2.0 and they've always had Chip + Pin unlike Visa/MC/Amex ect who still let you swipe instead of using the chip because they dont' give a fuck about fraud losses

Well over here people don't get robbed 'on the reg', as you would say. Also usually there's an upper limit to how much you can pay without having to enter a PIN (I'm ). Also, if you get robbed, or lose it, it's like carrying cash that you can invalidate in a minute and then retrieve for your own use.

BRAVO!!

>7-15 second processing time
>many stores haven't implemented chip support
wat? do you live in Africa or something?

>i have chip now
I remember using chip a few years ago before NFC cards became the standard.

I have never had anything but chip. I don't think we have swipe here in Belgium.

A card that gets stolen can be rendered useless within 5 minutes with a call to your bank, and you can only spend like £30 at once with contactless. If they do manage to use it before you can get it canceled, the bank will give you your money back. So no, it's not like cash at all.

I live in Canada, we only have swipe for when our American overlords come and visit the land they're lending us. We commoners only use chip.

>In america they still pay with checks
>with checks
>CHECKS

comfy but pot is degenerate

i remember ameritards were using pagers till like 2006

lol

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>americans

you're right we shouldn't mix them up with canadians and mexicans

itt: eurotards proud of being chipped and tracked like the mindless cattle they are

I just sent you a five dollar tip for your excellent post. You take check, right?

very few people pay with checks unless we're going to make a very large purchase or certain governmental organizations

>4444
>4444

i bet you think those bumper stickers contradict each other dont you idiot eurofag

All cards were a mistake.

Source: I work for a large payment service provider.

I just think it's really funny that amerilards voted to lose their healthcare because they felt the orange TV-man who puts his name on buildings would make coal jobs come back.

>corporate welfare to insurance is great healthcare system

ACA is a fucking joke designed to fail and democrats didn't even like it. We don't want socialized healthcare because you lose freedom of your own body and belong to the state, like you, cattle

...

If you don't like the house you're living in then burning it down doesn't really help, it just means you'll get to live on the streets.

We have wireless payment but only foreigners use it. Most people don't know it exists because we would rather not give our bank information to a third party and put it on our cellphones