How the fuck did the first Mexican Empire lose so much territory, were they fucking asleep or what?

How the fuck did the first Mexican Empire lose so much territory, were they fucking asleep or what?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_April_6,_1830
animalpolitico.com/2015/12/guerrero-cierra-2015-a-la-cabeza-en-homicidios-tamaulipas-en-plagios-y-jalisco-en-extorsiones/
nacion.com/sucesos/accidentes/Costa-Rica-cierra-tasa-homicidios_0_1533646691.html
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muh treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo

American migrants on texas, indian wars on californias, after the empire fell the republic was useless to keep the central american states happy
Lack of unity left us poor and with a small army
Really Mexico would have dissolved if it wasnt for the war with the US

your country is the cause

CHICANO

All the lost territry can be attributed to Santana.

Nueva Espana was an artificial territory that broke apart into its natural components.

immigrants my friend, we should have gotten a donaldo trumpo back then

fucking this

Controlling that much territory was difficult.

Please take us back though, shit sucks down here

We did.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_April_6,_1830

They just didn't gave a fuck and became illegal aliens. The irony.

We don't want blue peruANOS here

Mexico didnt like california and viewed it as a wasteland (which it was) and despised the people who lived there as backwards barbaric herdsmen.

This understandibly upset the californios so they decided to tell mexico to fuck off.

It didnt work though, and they got rekt, being backwards barbaric herdsmen.

After a while some american settlers came, and americans just love causing trouble, so the second time the californios tried to rebell, the settlers helped them, and they managed to sieze the capital just long enough to declare themselves a sovereign republic and ask the US, currently at war with mexico, for statehood, which it quickly obliged.

The important thing here, is that the US did not come in and conquer CA, the mexicans living here wanted to break away from mexico, and did. Though they never would have been able to hold it of course, but thats a technicality :^)

Everyone knows the texas story, and i have no idea about new mexico.

Any state without cartels and crime? Spaniards failed in Mexico, I am sorry mexican bros but Spain itself has problems... Someday mexico will be a good place and in my opinion is but the problem is the crime .

...

check

They practically didn't own it in the first place, it was severely underpopulated and ungoverned or just inhabited by Americans already (Texas)

>Everyone knows the texas story, and i have no idea about new mexico.

New Mexico was also hostile to the government in MC. The locals were offered US citizenship at the close of the war and about 90% accepted, the remaining handful who didn't moved south to Mexico.

The vast majority of that de jure territory was not effectively controlled -- similar to how ISIS looks huge on those maps, because they claim a lot of empty desert. There are far more Mexican citizens living in Nuevo Mexico and Californias today than ever were there before 1948.

When the US occupied Veracruz and Mexico City, beating back the Mexican army beyond much recovery, the US assumed control of the largely empty territory to the north. The few hundred Mexican troops still left in the border forts were replaced by American soldiers, and the Mexican settlers (who numbered less than 100,000) became US citizens.

This emptiness was true of the US as well. Remember that American troops were fighting Native forces within our borders even into the 20th century. The West was wild because most of it was part of the United States in name alone.

I always found it sad and ironic that gold was discovered in California and Alaska within a decade of acquiring each territory.

The Mexicans and Russians must have been hanging themselves en masse once they learned how wealthy those territories could have made them.

Actually we were in a race to get California before the British did because they had their eyes set on the place.

>Someday mexico will be a good place
Lmao no, its only getting worse

The touristy parts of the Yucatan are pretty safe.

The commie parts of the Yucatan are a paradise for the poor, but if you aren't a Maya worker you probably won't like it.

It isn't, actuallly, the murder rate dropped from 23 when it peaked in 2011, to 13 last year. Unlike Costa Rica, that is in fact getting worse making 2015 its worst year of violence on record, registering 558 murders for a homicide rate of 11.4 per 100,000, according to the country's Judicial Investigation Department.

shitty leadership. look at brazil, they didnt lose any piece of their empire except uruguay, because of excelent emperors

>we
hmmmmm so this is the white america i heard about

Keep telling yourself that juan

>2012

I know what I'm talking about. Following four years of declining homicides, Mexico ended 2015 with a slight uptick in murders. The Executive Secretary of the National System for Public Security (Secretariado Ejecutivo del Sistema Nacional de Seguridad Pública - SESNSP) recorded 17,055 homicides through the first 11 months of 2015 for a homicide rate of 12.9 per 100,000 residents.
animalpolitico.com/2015/12/guerrero-cierra-2015-a-la-cabeza-en-homicidios-tamaulipas-en-plagios-y-jalisco-en-extorsiones/

Homicides reached historic levels during the past year in Costa Rica
nacion.com/sucesos/accidentes/Costa-Rica-cierra-tasa-homicidios_0_1533646691.html

Actually the US at the time was a in race to beat Britain to California, which they also were eager to grab for themselves. Go all the way back to Thomas Jefferson and he said that it was natural and inevitable that the nation would reach the Pacific coast.

can you please learn the history of your own country?
also they just kept pushing and pushing us until we couldn't take it no more and had to crush them militarily

>Venezuela

Holy fucking shit, I thought things were pretty stable before the current crisis

17,055 its still pretty fucking far from 558 tho

That´s why rate per 100 000 is used, your cunt has 4 800 000 people ours more than 120 million

120 Million people is pretty fucking far from 4 million people.

Nah they love violence

Racial inferiority the Mexican is not destined to have a nation he is destined to be ruled and commanded by his Superiors be they Yankee, Dixie or Iberian.

The Mexican has no fighting spirit and will kill itself to reduce chances of facing a foe. When the US liberated Mexico City during the Mexico war their soldiers jumped to their deaths rather than face our gallant fighting men

>our gallant fighting men
The Saint Patrick's Battalion, formed and led by John Riley, was a unit of 175 to several hundred immigrants (accounts vary) and expatriates of European descent who fought as part of the Mexican Army against the United States in the Mexican–American War of 1846–8. Most of the battalion's members had deserted or defected from the United States Army.

What the fuck does that graph even mean? The value vs. bar length is disproportionate as fuck. Somebody check this again for me to make sure I'm not stupid, I'm pretty high.
>Venezuela 2nd longest
>16,072

>Belize 3rd longest
>145

The hanged company yes we recall. We lynched them up at their capture for the treason

It takes population into account

>lose
they're still there you idiot

Says the MexicANO

el peruANO con hoja

t. Sudaca

t. chicANO

It's not ironic, it was a sign of how little regard Mexico had for its territories.

Sutter discovered traces of the largest gold deposit EVER in LESS THAN A YEAR after the US acquired California. The Hispanic work ethic was abysmal and Mexicans saw California as nothing but a bunch of Indian-infested forests and mountains. Unlike the Americans, Mexicans didn't consider owning a farm to be an honorable profession so they never bothered to settle it thoroughly despite it being some of the most habitable, farmable, and mineral-rich land on the planet.

Manifest destiny, faggot!

There were only a few thousand Hispanics north of the Rio Grande in 1846, all of them in El Paso, Santa Fe, Los Angeles, San Diego, and Yerba Buena (later San Francisco).

Although these territories were unpopulated, you invaded It.

so they ...we dind nuffin...WE DINDU NUFFIN

It's a moot point anyway since if we didn't take California, the Brits would have in a few years. Also...

>the irony of a Spaniard complaining about war and conquest of Mexico

Spaniards didn't conquest Mexico. Mexico didn't exist back then, and we wouldn't exist without them.

>b-but look at the others

It was an invasion, period.

Oh look, it's the Mexico is white troll again.

After getting his behind kicked the other day he's back again to insist that New Spain = Mexico and he's descended from Castilian nobility and his forebearers were advisers to Philip II.

Iturbide a shit. Maximilian wouldn't have lost it.

>Oh look, it's the Mexico is white troll again.
No. I don't even know what you are talking about.

Do you mean Santa Ana?

Dude, you were just whining about losing the Mexican War in a thread 2 days ago. Who are you fooling?

Santa Anna*

Iturbide didn't lose it, he'd probably maintain it a while since regular (not the ruling class) people liked him

He meant Santana, it's his fault

No, again.

So I'll just reiterate what I said the other day when we had this exact same silly thread: Back in the 19th century, you started wars and took land if you won. That was how it worked in those days and I'm sorry if you expect people in the 1840s to have followed 2010s moral standards.

this guy is right

"The determination of our slave holding president, and the probability of his success in wringing from the people, men and money to carry it on, is made evident by the puny opposition arrayed against him. None seem willing to take their stand for peace at all risks."
- Frederick Douglass

"In the murder of Mexicans upon their own soil, or in robbing them of their country, I can take no part either now or hereafter. The guilt of these crimes must rest on others. I will not participate in them."
- Joshua Giddings

"This war is nondescript.... We charge the President with usurping the war-making power ... with seizing a country ... which had been for centuries, and was then in the possession of the Mexicans.... Let us put a check upon this lust of dominion. We had territory enough, Heaven knew."
- Robert Toombs

" Some, if not all the gentlemen on, the other side of the House, who have addressed the committee within the last two days, have spoken rather complainingly, if I have rightly understood them, of the vote given a week or ten days ago, declaring that the war with Mexico was unnecessarily and unconstitutionally commenced by the President James K Polk. "
- Abraham Lincoln

"The presence of United States troops on the edge of the disputed territory farthest from the Mexican settlements, was not sufficient to provoke hostilities. We were sent to provoke a fight, It was very doubtful whether Congress would declare war; but if Mexico should attack our troops, the Executive could announce, "Whereas, war exists by the acts of, etc.," and prosecute the contest with vigor. Once initiated there were but few public men who would have the courage to oppose it...."
- Ulysses S. Grant

Told you this is the same troll from yesterday. ;)

Whatever you say, buddy.

wait, I thought I remember hearing that the main thing was they were afraid of the SW being turned into slave states?

It could have been, but IDR for sure.

>160 years later
>still asshurt at losing clay he claimed for all of 29 years and never settled in or had any actual administrative control over

Given that Spain had California for 300 years and the US for 160 and counting, I think Paco's claim is the weakest of the bunch.

It was, and this was one of the main triggers of your civil war.

I'm Mexican American and shit no I wouldn't want Mexico to have kept CA. their government can't even barely run the territory they have, let alone all that much clay. why does everyone immigrate here but not in the other direction? No, fuck living in that shithole.

el chicANO señores
Please stay there

Enjoy getting your head chainsawed off of you by a cartel.

Sure m8

worth it

I would like to see Southerners get crushed more often, though.

Thread should have ended here.

The real problem is that we didn't annex it all the way down to the Columbian border, and shortly thereafter we should have incorporated Cuba and the rest of the Caribbean.

It would all be much nicer and more hospitable today.

Yeah, but we also don't have as powerful neighbourhoods as we. When Paraguay tried to take a little part of our territory they fucked up so bad that the empire killed, I think, a half of the paraguayan population. The closer one was Argentina, which only possibly could take parts of the South, but the empire rapidly fixed this future issue filling these parts with immigrants.

>sonara safe
>cd obregon 50th most dangerous city in the world
this must be the work of an enemy「stand」

It was largely an issue of cultural/economic geography. Historically New Spain was founded on an axis which connected the ports of Veracruz, via Cuba it's gateway to Spain and Europe, and Acapulco, which connected it to the the Philipines, governed by the Real Audiencia de Mexico, and Asian commerce. Smack in the middle so to speak was Mexico City, the cultural/political capital which comanded the old road/agriculture system of the Aztecs, and which was in turn connected to Veracruz via Puebla, historically the fundamental part of the axis which also went through Tlaxcala, the de facto new seat of power for the Nahuatl elites and to the West it would expand towards the city of Morelia and to the South Oaxaca, both of which were economically important regions in terms of forestry/agriculture. Into the North the route extended through Pachuca, Queretaro, Guanajuato and San Luis Potosí, these are the mining regions upon which Mexico became the World's largest producer of silver, which we remain to this day. This highland region extended through the ports of Mazatlan in the Pacific and Tampico in the Gulf, in between which the Northern cowboy culture developed. Eventually in the West Guadalajara would command this region's breadbasket.

This is it, culturally and economically speaking that was New Spain through most of the Colonial period and the wealthiest nation the world had ever known for 300 years. To the East and South the Captaincies general of Yucatan and Guatemala developed independently as regions with little economic surplus and unconnected to central Mexico because of geographic isolation (at the time unsurmountable amounts of dangerous/dense jungles, although some roads did exist) to the north was dangerous hostile tribes and arid territory which was settled only slowly through a system of forts and misiones. But this was Mexico, Cont

Cont. unlike in the South this part of New Spain never became self sufficient and was reliant on suplies and troops to sustain itself. And not all Indians were hostile, amny of the became Christianized and fell under the protection of the Viceroyalty, they esentially became Mexicans, tending the mixture of European animals and Mesoamerican crops which was New Spanish civilization and it is today known as Mexican. Mazatlan connected to San Francisco and this maritime route was a vital link which even after American annexation remained a necessary economic life line while the West developed.

So the empire first lost Guatemala, except for Ciudad Real aka Chiapas, which was itself so economically difficult to rule from a centralized position it later disntegrated into modern central American states, Yucatan would try to separate from independent Mexico but it could not sustain itself militarily given the Maya uprisings so it eventually sought help from Mexico which at this time was keenly aware of the value of territory and invested in mantaining this peninsula.

to the North American settlers did deceive the Mexicans, given their massive migration and discreet support from the US, as well as Santa Anna's idiocy in handling the insurrection himself, gave the US casus belli to push for the annexation of the territoruies which Mexico mantained, yes barely, but still as the only representative of civilization in a land which had become a raiding ground for the Apache and Comanche. The US basically muscled its way into this lands using innocent settlers first. Given the chaos in central Mexico after a particularly bloody Independence and continuous civil wars the excess resources to mantain these lands were simply not there, while the Americans on the other hand were stable and far outumbered Mexico as a nation.

>California
>Habitable
>Farmable

top no, all of that happened after massive waterworks were completed in the 20th century

ironically enough, it was american immigrants that overwhelmingly colonized parts of mexico until they revolted and became part of the USA.

The First Mexican Empire didn't lose shit, it in fact expanded our territory all the way to Central America.

It was the Mexican Republic that lost the territory. They thwarted the beautiful ideal of a Mexican Empire and gave us a shitty attempt at a Republic, and kept in-fighting throughout all of the XIX century, which the U.S used to steal the territory.

The fall of the Empire, the in-fighting and political turmoil, all of it was due to the manipulations of U.S agents, specifically, Freemasons. See: Joel Poinsett.

population was 5 million with 2 million mi 2

>Yucatan would try to separate from independent Mexico but it could not sustain itself militarily given the Maya uprisings so it eventually sought help from Mexico which at this time was keenly aware of the value of territory and invested in maintaining this peninsula.

The Maya revolted against Mexican rule in the Caste Wars, a conflict that raged for decades and resulted in both sides committing horrible cruelties. The main part of the fighting had ceased during Porifiro Diaz's final years in power, but Mayan resistance was not totally suppressed until the 1930s.

New York City/Population
8.406 million (2013)

it would be as if NYC controlled all of the US and the rest was unpopulated

>The First Mexican Empire didn't lose shit, it in fact expanded our territory all the way to Central America.
This is bunk of course because at independence, Mexico simply inherited all of New Spain's territory which included Central America, however they rebelled and declared independence in three years.

Mexico City/Population
8.851 million (2010)

The entire Mexican empire had a lower population than Mexico city today.

everything north of the established capital was borderland wilderness with raiders.

No, not really. Try reading a book.

Central america declared independence from Spain at the same time as México. Agustín de Iturbide, who achieved Mexican independence, sent Anastasio Bustamante to Central America, both to ensure the peace and to perform a poll on wether C.A would want to join the Mexican Empire. They said yes.

When the empire changed into a republic a few years later, Central America voted out.

This is true. Most of Mexico in 1846 was empty with the bulk of the population in the old Aztec heartland. La Raza fuckers like are butthurt at having lost a desert that almost nobody lived in.

>Jalisco, Zacatecas, fucking GUANAJUATO was wilderness.

You Usenians are determined to solidify your reputation as absolute ignorants, huh?

There simply was no reason for Mexicans to live next to wild raids and very little governance.

I'm not debating, mate. It's a fact that there were cities and settlements all over New Spain. We had colleges a hundred years before you even thought of it.

You also fail to take into account our spanish mission. Yes, there was little incentive to go to arid places with hostile inhabitants, but our mission was to discover and win souls for the true religion. It was the priests that spearheaded much of the exploration and settling up north.

El alamo, for example, was an old religious mission. Settlements far north were abandoned because of the expulsion of the Jesuits from New Spain, ordained by the Spanish Crown in the late XVIII century, a move that was wildly unpopular back then.

>He remembers old threads
>He fights keyboard wars across multiples threads
How fat are you?

"hah hey guys, people didn't live there, it wasn't their land anyway, haha"

Zacatecas always looked like a rooster to me.

Anybody else...?

It's hard to exactly forget a thread that happened about 1-1/2 days ago especially when they feature the exact same taco nigger spamming the same exact arguments which we already picked apart in the last thread.

No sorry, Paco, you cannot into whiteness.