If one should be proud of one's individual achievements only and shun collectivism, why are people patriotic?

if one should be proud of one's individual achievements only and shun collectivism, why are people patriotic?

"should" and "are" are two completely different things

yet to be patriotic is widely encouraged by the culture itself

are we to discard culture?

you can do whatever you want but should usually is opposite of what is currently being done or otherwise the idea of should would be totally pointless

>if one should be proud of one's individual achievements only and shun collectivism

Who says that? Certainly isn't the case here

but it is

you're taught from adolescence to compete with others, you constantly strive for more, some form of completion and self-realisation

truly collectivist cultures don't care much about such concepts, eg. Confucian China

confucian china was not ideologically pure

>why are people patriotic
people are idiots

Is this lulu anime any good?

neither is capitalist west, but the general idea prevailed

ever since the Spring of Nations we're in an ideological limbo, I believe

yes it's fun and cute

patriotism is not collectivism, it is the opposite

truly? you're told to be proud of someone else's achievements, to somehow transposition yourself and experience what the original agent experienced, or at least cherish it

it's collectivism in essentia

collectivism isn't about pride of other people's accomplishments

it is about doing for a greater good

but you're a part of a greater body, a nation, and you work for the nation's greatness - that's patriotism

hardly anything individualist about it

>you work for the nation's greatness - that's patriotism
nein

go on then explain patriotism to me

>patriotism
it's a feeling, you don't have to do crap
patriotism means to feel good about your country
unless being emotional means contributing

patriotism is not innate for all human beings, therefore cannot be called a feeling

it's a learnt trait, imposed on you culturally

>it's a feeling, you don't have to do crap
Yeah except be born on a certain piece of land
>your country
>your

Give him a chance mate after all he is American, he was probably talking about pride.

but with zero contribution
compared to collectivism it's vastly different, they are not compatible

why should people shun collectivism? unity is strength.

zero? you're to recognise a certain area as your "homeland", seems like a mental effort to me

collectism forces some kind of equality between all members being collected, patriots or no

If are a product of your nation, whether you like it or not. Its pointless to 'shun' collectivism, collective brought you up, collective educated you, collective shaped your political ideas, and cultural sensibilities

and so members of a nation are all equal in their membership, you cannot be "more American" than anyone else unless you put some actual effort in it (thus your contribution is bigger)

I am done

you arent supposed to be proud of others work, but in your contributions to the system.

If you contribute to a great country, then you can be proud of being in the system.

Its a type of individualism.

>supported by culture

Try being a contrarian nonpatriot here and you'll find yourself in the mainstream.

>if one should be proud of one's individual achievements only and shun collectivism
Says who?
Why not be proud of both your own achievements and achievements of the group you belong to? One doesn't exclude the other.