So let me get this straight
>a black born in Germany who is as culturally German as the next kraut isn't German though he's a German citizen
>a 100% by blood German American who later on learned German to fluency isn't German
Well then what the fuck is this stupidity? I just can't fathom how someone who is ethnically German isn't a German and yet someone who is culturally and legally German is also not German. Where does rationality begin and double think end for you fucking hypocritical euros?
To be German you need to follow 2 criteria:
1.) Be ethnically German
2.) Be raised in German culture (that includes speaking the language ofc)
Its actually pretty simple.
MUH
That doesn't make any sense at all. If a person is culturally German he is German just as someone who is ethnically German. I'd say the one with German citizenship is the one who is German
>>a black born in Germany who is as culturally German as the next kraut isn't German though he's a German citizen
Indeed.
>>a 100% by blood German American who later on learned German to fluency isn't German
Obviously.
>Well then what the fuck is this stupidity?
This is normal. Racial and ethnic policies in the US are the arbitrary retard rollercoaster.
>I just can't fathom how someone who is ethnically German isn't a German
Because he's an American.
>and yet someone who is culturally and legally German is also not German.
Because he's an African or a descendent of Africans.
>Where does rationality begin and double think end for you fucking hypocritical euros?
If you're born in Limburg (province of this country) and then move to Amsterdam, you'll never become an Amsterdammer. Ever. You'll remain a Limburger for life. Same the other way around.. And if your parents were born in Amsterdam, and you were born in Limburg, the vast majority of Limburgers would not consider you a Limburger-proper.
The black German citizen in your example might be a German if his parents were also German or Germaneque, and if he's got a German name and everything. Often though, that's not the case...
Americans don't understand this because 'American' isn't an ethnicity like many European ethnicities are..
the first part doesn't seem that European but I think it's sensible
you can be born and raised within some borders and still not be a part of the ethnicity
>>a black born in Germany who is as culturally German as the next kraut isn't German though he's a German citizen
It's right to me.
>>a 100% by blood German American who later on learned German to fluency isn't German
He can become a german if he learns the culture and the language.
This is how it works to me, I don't give a fuck if it doesn't seem fine to you, I will never change my mind about it.
>If a person is culturally German he is German just as someone who is ethnically German
The culturally German person is more German. Black Germans that were born in Germany and speak German are literally more German than 'German'-Americans that typically don't even know what area of Germany their family originated from..
>muh locale
So you're fucking saying that a German born in Saxon and raised in Pennsylvania is a German? Even if he doesn't speak German at all
>Germans are a Germanic ethnic group native to Central Europe, who share a common German ancestry, culture and history. German is their shared mother tongue. Wikipedia
If you don't satisfy the culture or ethnic criteria, that's nobody else's problem but your own.
>If a person is culturally German he is German just as someone who is ethnically German
This isn't your make believe bullshit ethnicity like "American", European identities were forged over several thousand years.
If you don't satisfy the criteria, tough shit. Go cry somewhere else you fucking faggot.
>So you're fucking saying that a German born in Saxon and raised in Pennsylvania is a German? Even if he doesn't speak German at all
Yes. He'd be a German with retarded parents for not teaching him their language.. You have to understand that Europe, unlike America, has a loooong history. You don't just turn European by setting foot on this soil and butchering a language a little.. Over time you might assimilate, but this typically doesn't happen within a generation or 2.
So if a person who is culturally German by his parents and speaks German was raised in America but doesn't have German citizenship at all is not a German?
>a 100% by blood German American who later on learned German to fluency isn't German
Nigger what are you doing. He would be german ethnically just not culturally.
If the German was raised culturally German with German parents and speaks German, he's entitled to German citizenship, you fuckwit.
A nigger living in Germany doesn't make him German, no more than me moving to Finland and learning Finnish makes me Finnish.
>So if a person who is culturally German by his parents
What does this even mean according to you in the American context? Favoring hamburgers & franks over pizza?
>and speaks German was raised in America but doesn't have German citizenship at all is not a German?
How can you be a German if you don't even have German citizenship? If you were actually a German, you'd automatically be eligible for citizenship.
But he's fucking German, you would never think he isn't German unless he told you he was American
So he's a German yet he doesn't speak German or isn't German culturally? So what makes him German versus the black born and raised in Germany?
Only Americans has this "two degrees of citizenship" thing. In here Nationalism has become mostly civic, so you're ethnically German, with even maybe a German passport at hand, but not a German citizen and certainly not culturally German.
But he doesn't have German citizenship since Germany doesn't have jus sanguinis so he's not German
>What does this even mean according to you in the American context? Favoring hamburgers & franks over pizza?
Drinking beer and eating bratwurst
>How can you be a German if you don't even have German citizenship? If you were actually a German, you'd automatically be eligible for citizenship.
So the black is German then?
>But he's fucking German, you would never think he isn't German unless he told you he was American
If he's German, how come he doesn't have the passport to prove it?
>So he's a German yet he doesn't speak German or isn't German culturally?
Yes. Ethnicity isn't something you put on like a suit, or convert to like a religion.. I know that might be hard to grasp for a country that doesn't really have an ethnicity of it's own, but that's typically how it works in countries that have (or at least HAD) a more or less uniform population.
>So what makes him German versus the black born and raised in Germany?
The fact that he's an actual ethnic German as the result of being born to ethnic Germans in Germany. He could be an American too, because everyone and their mother can be an American if they please.. But that won't change the fact he was born a German.
No
For example Québecois isn't a Frenchman he is a Québecois
And there's nothing wrong with that by the way. But obviously he's not going to pretend he's French either
civic nationalism is cancer btw
That doesn't make any sense at all. If a German-american gets German citizenship and speaks German he's not considered German even though ethnically and legally he is German
>Germany doesn't have jus sanguinis
Yes it does, retard.
>The law is based on a mixture of the principles of jus sanguinis and jus soli. In other words, one usually acquires German citizenship if a parent is a German citizen, irrespective of place of birth, or by birth in Germany to parents with foreign nationality if certain requirements are fulfilled.
Correct. Yuros are small-minded and have a weird tribal mentality. Is this news to you?
>a black born in Germany who is as culturally German as the next kraut
When has this ever actually happened? Moreover, no he isn't, because his kids won't be culturally German. They will be culturally black like every other nigger in a civilized country
Now go back to pleddit you faggot
Americans are basically "21 heartbreaking images that make you say fuck border and laws n shit" tier.
Wishing and wanting doesn't change your ethnicity, fatties.
>passport
So is the black German?
>suit thing (too lazy to copy paste it)
So why is he German even though he doesn't have the passport?
>ethnic German
So a black living in Germany who's a third generation immigrant is less German than said German American though he is more culturally German
He's not considered German because he'll always be considered "that one funny American guy who's convinced he's German, but we'll humor him out of politeness"
I don't see how i can be any clearer
This isn't against you at all but this is literally who you are. How could we view you any different than who you actually are ? Don't call it a "weird tribal mentality" it's literally only the truth ...
>Drinking beer and eating bratwurst
I do that at least weekly, but I'm not a German.
>So the black is German then?
He's German citizen.. If his parents were also German citizens, born in Germany, that named him Fritz and eat Bratwürst, kartoffelsalat and leberkäuse at home, he might be considered German. The reality however is probably that his parents don't speak German at home, don't east German and didn't give him a German name. Thus basically ensuring that their child will not be considered German, mostly because he isn't.
Surinamese people, and Antillians in this country that are statistically Dutch because they were one part of the Kingdom are typically not really considered Dutch either, not by themselves and not by us.. We consider them to be part of our history and culture, but a Surinamer remains a Surinamer, because they talk, eat, act and live like Surinamers typically do.. Ethnicity and culture are not easily shed or adopted.
People are making their groups so exclusive that they will die out.
Same thing will happen with the Freemasons. You can't join unless your grandparents were members.
>So why is he German even though he doesn't have the passport?
Blood. A white man living in Africa doesn't become ethnically Kenyan, you utter fuckwit.
>guy in my school, black, 2m tall, fat and sporting a majestic afro
>talk to him for the first time
>mfw he speaks deep fucking Bavarian
German as fuck
fuck off nigger
Well that was rude of your Poland. I don't go around telling you to fuck off, and calling you names.
But we aren't talking about Quebecois we're talking about Germans
That makes no sense at all. The initial conditions are he is culturally German
It makes no sense at all. What defines the German? Ethnicity or culture. How you can say one is German yet another isn't based on either of these two principles
>civic nationalism is cancer btw
Ethnic is much worse
Americans are so fucking stupid it hurts.
well I don't go around usurping nationalities
your ancestors moved from country X for a reason, stay fucking American
So if a black is named Fritz and does all German things would he still not be considered German?
>German American
clearly not a pure german then, sanchez.
Why not just settle for being a German descended American
>Many german families in the midwest were forced to abandon their language, and customs due to anti-german sentiment during WW2
>They are no longer considered german.
Heartless Euros
Yes, because he is black.
Euros are different from us. We (and Canada) are a nation of immigrants. That's basically our national identity; a melting pot founded by people from thousands of miles away, made up of people from all across the world, united by national identity and allegiance to the Flag and the ideals of the United States. Our whole thing is being trans-ethnic.
You know how countries have mottos, meant to state and symbolize who they are and what they're all about? Do you know what ours is?
"E Pluribus Unum," or "out of many, one." That's basically our whole thing.
Euro countries aren't like that because, though the modern nation-states themselves might not be that old, the people themselves have. Unlike us (unless you're Native American, in which case sorry for my assumptions but there's really not a lot of you left) they literally are the indigenous people of their countries. Their ancestors lived in the same country in which they now live, practicing earlier forms of their culture, speaking earlier forms of their language, and so on. For the most part, they didn't arrive from thousands of miles away and wipe out the locals (except for the English and maybe the French, but they've still been where they are long enough to have a sort-of similar connection to their lands).
You can't really expect Euro countries to be America-style melting pots.
If you're going to claim to be German, you'd have to be subjected to German culture everyday. German parents aren't enough. You'd have to go to a German school in a German town with German friends watching German TV (including German commercials) while talking about events happening or have happened in Germany
So the German American is a German?
In this scenario he is Nigel
To be German he'd have to be ethnically German, born and raised in Germany, with German culture in him.
A black that travels to Germany and stays there to live will NEVER be a German, no matter how well he speask German or likes Oktoberfest.
And even if he was born in Germany and raised in Germany he still wouldn't be German because he's not ethnically German.
The exception is America, because America is a country forged on immigrants with no real "American Ethnicity" to go from, being American is a matter of intention and mindset, unlike being German that goes beyond just wanting and feeling German.
To the Dutch government foreigners will always stay a migrany (allochtoon) even after several generations and cant become a native (autochtoon).
I am Greek
>Americans want to be considered things they're not
Kek. Every time.. Are you mad that the Irish rejected you as one of them or something? You're an American.. Not some hyphen-European. That's just a fact of life, why can't you just accept that and move on? It's not a judgement on value, but just simple fact. Like he says:>So is the black German?
A citizen, yes. Ethinically german? Most likely not, though it's possible.
>So why is he German even though he doesn't have the passport?
If he's German, he has the passport. If he doens't have it, he's eligible for it. If neither, he's not a German.. If he's born in Germany to German parents (or even born elsewhere to German parents), he's basically a German.
>So a black living in Germany who's a third generation immigrant is less German
Depends on how he was raised. Being the third generation means fuck all if each subsequent generation became more segregated and ghettofied. There are 3rd generation immigrants here with more Turkish tendencies than their purely Turkish grandparents.
>than said German American though he is more culturally German
Yes. If I were to start wearing lederhosen and eating bratwurst all day, while speaking German, that wouldn't change shit about me being Dutch.
Ethnically, yes. Just as Irish Americans are ethnically Irish and entitled to Irish citizenship.
ius sanguinis>>>ius soli
>horses born in a garage are cars
You've stumbled on the basic truth OP.
Euros are small-minded, bigoted, tribal people.
*migrant
And yet you wont accept new people into your family if they would be ardent patriots?
It sounds to me like you're the one being pointlessly silly.
>What defines the German? Ethnicity or culture.
Both.
The American has the ethnicity but he lacks the culture. He may speak the language but he wasn't raised in Germany. And he doesn't know what it's like in real life.
His vision of Germany comes from media, tourism and fantasizing. Not by actual 1st hand experience.
That's not to say he can't find a place in Germany, but first he should realize despite his ties he's not *actually* German.
Yes it makes perfect sense, the nationalities were forged over thousands of years, nigger can become german citizen, but never german
>foreigners
>ardent patriots
what is this nonsense
>tfw my country doesn't have this problem because it's composed of several nations which each have thier own indigenous ethnicity whilst the state's identity is non-ethnic
p based
a black guy can't be english because that is an ethnicity (though if england were to become independent then it would change), but can be british becuase that is a nationality.
if england were to be indepnednet like the netherlands or germany, then a black guy could still not be ethnically english but of course could have english nationality and be english in a civic sense
So if he was German American and didn't know anything German he would be German?
So if a German-american was planted in Germany but didn't speak German well at all and kinda understood the culture and had the citizenship would be considered German?
Just let them believe what they want to believe, Janusz.
>So if he was German American and didn't know anything German he would be German?
Only in ethnic terms. He wouldn't be a real German.
It happens.. I've met some Moroccans that were basically ethnic Limburgers. But they're hardly the norm.
Starting to move towards it.. Especially if his parents weren't Mkumbe D'nana and his wife fresh off the boat.
Note that people from the Antilles, Surinam and Indonesia are typically counted as Dutch in statistics though, as many of their families originate from within the historic bounds of the Kingdom.
If he learns the language and the culture he has a chance at becoming something close to a real German, yes. He'd still be just ethnically German.
When is the "nationality is tied to language" meme going to end?
>he should realize despite his ties he's not *actually* German.
Impossible concept to grasp for Americans.
I mean maybe if you treated them like a human being they would embrace your culture.
Unless you don't want people culturally appropriating you, you poor little soul.
>if a German-american was planted in Germany but didn't speak German well at all and kinda understood the culture and had the citizenship
You truly are going to great and ridiculous lengths to try and prove a point, aren't you? That's not a scenario that would happen, you're just being a butthurt faggot.
lmao @ this thread
That's not true.
Indonesians are counted as westeners. But not as Dutch.
Surinamese are not counted as westeners nor as Dutch.
But the population tends to accept them as they mastered the language (and are often native speakers, have close cultural ties and in many cases (especially with Indonesians) blood related.
my culture has nearly 11 (eleven) centuries for fuck's sake
how can some poleaboo american be considered a pole
>its a murritard thread
But according to other anons he isn't fucking German. Where do you people draw the line?
>A citizen, yes. Ethinically german? Most likely not, though it's possible.
Explain this
>If he's German, he has the passport. If he doens't have it, he's eligible for it. If neither, he's not a German.. If he's born in Germany to German parents (or even born elsewhere to German parents), he's basically a German.
And yet he doesn't speak the language why is this one considered more German than the black who's been living in Germany 3 times over?
>Depends on how he was raised. Being the third generation means fuck all if each subsequent generation became more segregated and ghettofied. There are 3rd generation immigrants here with more Turkish tendencies than their purely Turkish grandparents.
In this scenario we'll say his parents are named Fritz and Helen both black, both born and raised in Germany
>Yes. If I were to start wearing lederhosen and eating bratwurst all day, while speaking German, that wouldn't change shit about me being Dutch.
What are you talking about you're a fucking German by that point and you just need the citizenship to prove it
Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam
A country without a language, a country without a soul.
You haven't been living that culture for that long. Stop thinking you're so damn special.
Don't blame Americans. OP is clearly German.
...
>go to a working man's pub
>pool table
>shitty football on the screen
>loads of bald white blokes in wifebeaters and shit
>however...
>guy pulling pints is a Sikh with a massive beard and a big old turban
>go up to him and ask him for a drink
>speaks in the thickest cockney accent
>mfw
I mean it's not like they're even that un-German. Their children would be German.
All they have to do to be accepted is stop pretending to not be American because it's just silly and nobody could take that seriously.
But they can't somehow and they just call people racist when they don't accept this whole nonsense at face value
(btw if we were the kind of people that would accept such nonsense like this you probably wouldn't want to become one of us in the first place)
I've been living it my whole life and so had my ancestors as far as I can trace them
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>muh horses analogy
Get something more realistic
So if you saw this guy walking down the street speaking to you in perfect German (assuming you're a German yourself by your standards) would you tell if he's a German or not?
No it doesn't, if a person is culturally like you he is one of you
>But according to other anons he isn't fucking German.
Nobody has said that. Everyone has agreed he would be ethnically German, he would just not be what would be considered a true German since he was not raised in German culture.
I'm not sure if Americans just have trouble wrapping their head around the entire ethnicity thing because you don't have an ethnic identity there.
No European in this thread has had a problem understanding it, everyone has said the same thing.
You're lecturing me about being realistic while claiming niggers are Europeans? Were you dropped as a baby or something?
>Indonesians are counted as westeners. But not as Dutch.
They're not counted as allochtoon. Not Dutch, but not allochtoon either.
>Surinamese are not counted as westeners nor as Dutch.
If they emigrate today they're not. The ones that came pre 1975 and their children (which are the vast majority of Surinamers in NL) are not considered allochtoon in statistics.
>But the population tends to accept them as they mastered the language
Many of them learnt the langauge as their first language when the colonies were still Dutch.. That's part of what makes them compatible with our society. Somewhat.
If he spoke "perfect German" he could just as easily be a foreginer. It's not that hard to learn a new language. Perhaps if he spoke with a rare dialect. Then I would know he's German
That contradicts everything else in this thread by far. Explain now how the black German isn't German
Move towards it? He's a third generation German at this point, why is he still not considered German?
Where is the logic in this?
>That contradicts everything else in this thread by far. Explain now how the black German isn't German
How can a black be German? Blacks are not from Germany.
>11 centuries
>babies first culture
Irish has been around for 23 there or thereabouts.
because he's not a fucking German
Are you just baiting at this point? I sincerely hope people stop feeding you replies.
This is how the rot starts. Next thing you'll know the only requirement to be ______ is to have a passport of that country.
>Explain this
Hard to explaim to someone who isn't part of a people in the European sense. Best way to put it: If the vast majority of German/Dutch/Irish people don't consider you German/Dutch/Irish, you're probably not. For a whole plethora of reasons, usually..
>And yet he doesn't speak the language why is this one considered more German than the black who's been living in Germany 3 times over?
Because he _IS_ a German. It's got fuck all to do with considering, user.
>In this scenario we'll say his parents are named Fritz and Helen both black, both born and raised in Germany
He might be considered German. Depends on all circumstances, really. That said, if someone were to pass him on the street they'd likely think he were some kind of African based on the fact that he looks like one.
>What are you talking about you're a fucking German by that point and you just need the citizenship to prove it
Do you really not understand what ethnicity means?
>name calling
I'm a Chicano actually
>slavs acting slavish
Will you stop and just act civil please
OP do you enjoy scatological literature and sexual fetish
>Explain now how the black German isn't German
Niggers aren't native to Europe.
Do you think if I moved to fucking Zimbabwe and started wearing Zimbabwe tribal nigger rags I would become a 100% authentic Zimbabwean?
Lad NO
you don't count your language is dead
There's a difference between ethnicity and nationality
No it hasn't. Irish has been entirely destroyed. You're alcoholic Englishmen and nothing more.
Neither are Finns
Not making an argument here. Just want to point that out as much as possible.