Chicago vs Chongqing
Battle of Skylines Round 1 Battle 8
/urban/ + /architecture/
Levi Wright
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Brody Gray
Bracket
David Brooks
Chicago
Benjamin Turner
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Nathaniel Thomas
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Joshua Roberts
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Hunter Hernandez
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Thomas Hall
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Easton Lewis
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Anthony Jenkins
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Thomas Green
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Adrian Jenkins
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Jacob Clark
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Jordan Price
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Lucas Stewart
Should've mentioned that I took this a few days ago
Was a pretty crazy storm
Benjamin Robinson
are yuo from Chicago?
Christian Cooper
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Kayden Diaz
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Luis Howard
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Michael Gutierrez
Wish we built more stuff like this, modern in style yet classical in proportion, size and outline.
So much better than the featureless towers popping up everywhere in London.
Jordan Lopez
Thinking 'Go might win this one.
Gavin Smith
DESTRUCTION
Jack Myers
Is this Chongqing like subburbs?
City looks pretty hellish
Ethan Brown
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Liam Murphy
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Levi Baker
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Joseph Bell
Chongqing is the one city I truly think of as pure to the core cyberpunk, which makes this kind of hard, but Chicago still overall has the nicer skyline. And it's undeniably a timeless classic, even if I personally find it a tad overrated.
Benjamin Davis
Chongqing is pretty average for Chinese cities. So that means it's still poor.
Wyatt Davis
Yeah
Logan Bailey
I just heard about a new development project going on where I live in Portland, OR. Some of the buildings are going to be the tallest built in the city since the 80s. Pretty excited to see that we might be getting a mildly interesting skyline soon.
Aiden Moore
Chicago is my favourite american skyline, gotta vote it.
Carson Hughes
Chongqing
Jason Garcia
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Landon Harris
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Aiden Sullivan
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Lucas Scott
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Adam Anderson
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Nathaniel Long
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Anthony Flores
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Adrian Hughes
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Benjamin Hernandez
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Matthew Bailey
Looks a lot better than a lot of Chinese cities.
Jaxon Robinson
That is a stunning picture.
Someone needs to remove those giant letters/characters on that skyscraper though.
Blake Allen
Chongqing.
This city of 18.5 million is considered the Chicago of China.
Located on the Yangtze, it has extensive transportation connections with all parts of China.
It is a multicultural city and has an immense diversity of languages.
Chongqing was once known more ominously as perfect example of Chinese Communist Party corruption killing a booming city. Only through immense debt buildup and real estate growth did Chongqing continue improving. In 2012 the former ruler, Bo, was removed by Xi's and Hu Jintao's allies.
Since then the city has witnessed a bounceback. Although growth is not as high as it used to be, and the city remains poor, it is in a far healthier position economically and socially than it was in 2009-2012.
For more reading
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Essentially, Chongqing is a pet project of the reforming liberals in the CCP. It has recieved endorsement from Xi and Li.
Depending on its successes and failures, it may prove to be the method China's government handles its economic and social reforms in the future.
Andrew Ortiz
By the way, I am the user who "knows" China (East Asia actually). I post here a lot since cities are important and their development is easier to discuss with facts.
All things held equal, Chicago has more skyscrapers/buildings per capita relative to Chongqing.
Chicago has about 10 million people in its metro area.
Chongqing has 18.5 million in its metro area.
Chongqing's GDP per capita is only $8500 though. Chicago's is about $60,000.
Samuel Brown
If you want to read about China's likely future economic and social development...
economist.com
Wenzhou is like China 5-6 years down the road.
They also stopped a lot of new construction. The same will likely happen to China's planned skyscrapers.
In general, there's just too many buildings in Chinese cities.
But specifically in dying Western and Northern cities. On the coast and in the south (like Chongqing, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Beijing) there is a housing shortage.
Therefore, the cities we see and hear about most often (first-tier) will continue expanding rapidly. The cities we don't see or hear about are soon going to look like America's rustbelt.
Liam Sanders
It seems like they've made a lot of the same mistakes as the Japanese and other rapidly growing economies.
Just a few days ago I was reading an article arguing that China tried to move off infrastructure/heavy industry development too soon. The essential thesis was that the middle income trap occurres because countries try to shift to consumption based before they are really ready. Interesting read
Isaac Green
Cyberpunk is fucking shit.
Angel Gutierrez
>economist
Jack Lopez
An interesting note is that Chicago is considered the birthplace of the Skyscraper and if I'm not mistaken has the earliest skyscraper still standing, the nice-looking Rookery Building finished in 1888.
>Daily reminder that if your city doesn't have a World Trade Center knockoff, it's literally a non-city.
Eli Rivera
Chicago 1945.
Henry Sanders
I knew this 10 years ago, it's literally the same shit as Japan. I doubt anyone here remembers but during the early 80s virtually everyone thought that Japan will soon overtake the US as the #1 economy and look what happened.
James Kelly
Same view today. Really makes you think.
Robert Richardson
Yep
There was some Hollywood movie in the 80s about one of the last American car factories being bought up by the japs. All the workers decided to try as hard as they can to improve production and keep the plant from being closed. In the end they show that Americans can be just as productive as japs.
Its really funny to watch today. Same hysterical shit people say about China now.
Kayden Clark
Could I have the link?
There's a lot of uncertainty as to what China should do. Not even economists are certain.
As someone who visits China a lot, I know that if one thing isn't repressed in China, it's economic discussions.
First of all, China and Japan are not similar and they will not follow the same paths of development.
This doesn't necessarily mean China is any better though. It probably will always be poorer than Japan because of demographic problems, one party rule, opposition to America/West, and disunity.
China's development is an immense and complex issue.
Even China's finest economists/strategists are not sure what to do.
Some, like your article, argue that China's government shouldn't interfere in the market and try to structurally change the economy away from heavy industry.
Some, like Michael Petis, argue that China has to move towards a consumption based economy and allow economic growth to fall to 3% to protect long-term economic/political stability.
China government is currently taking a middle route. A lot of people dislike Xi's current program for being politically repressive and also not reforming SOE's enough. They want quicker change towards an economy/government like South Korea/Japan/RoC.
Others, generally the military, entrenched interests, and SOE's, want stability. Therefore they want to slow down any reform. They aren't happy with Xi's program, but they still support him over the liberals.
Xi is the middleman. Li is a liberal. The military is conservative/maoist.
The economy is slowing. There were too many debts from Hu's time. There are a lot of nationalists who want war. Corruption was (and is) killing China. The environment is horrible.
Xi and Li got handed a sinking ship. But Li doesn't have to keep everyone from killing each other.
Imagine how hard it is the be Xi.
Isaac Martin
Their real estate bubble was also enormous, I remember reading that the Japanese imperial palace was worth more money than whole California.
Lucas Richardson
Also speaking of China
Chicago is getting a Chinese financed skyscraper. Although they've pushed back the groundbreaking by a bit. I hope it gets built though, I have a great view of the site from my apartment
Leo Flores
No.
m.scmp.com
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bloomberg.com
economist.com
There's a diversity of views, but almost all agree that Japan and China are not similar and will not follow a similar growth path.
I'm of the view that China has worse problems than Japan; but has a higher chance of fixing them.
Andrew Wright
The bundles remind me of the Sears Tower.
Jackson Davis
For example
>Japan's stockmarket and land-price bubbles in the early 1960s offer a better (and more cheerful) analogy to China than the 1980s bubble era does. Japan's economy was poorer then, although relative to America its GDP per person was more than double China's today, and its trend rate of growth was around 9%. According to HSBC, after the bubble burst in 1962-65, Japan's annual growth rate dipped to just under 6%, but then quickly rebounded to 10% for much of the next decade.
>South Korea and Taiwan, which experienced big stockmarket bubbles in the 1980s, are also worth examining. In the five years to 1990, Taipei's stockmarket surged by 1,600% (in dollar terms) and Seoul's by 700%, easily beating Tokyo's 450% gain in the same period. After share prices slumped, annual growth in both South Korea and Taiwan slowed to around 6%, but soon regained its previous pace of 7-8%.
Logan Anderson
Carter Brown
keeping the thread alive
Aaron Reyes
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Isaiah Price
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Tyler Walker
One of the best skylines on the West Coast, 3bh
Pretty decent
Great, very Blade Runner like.
Nolan Hill
Don't even know what city this is
>that cluster looming in the background
Eli Baker
Wait wrong image
Juan Wood
Pyongyang is pretty
Zachary Sullivan
Seoul?
Eli Wilson
Best Korea indeed.
Kevin Lopez
Commieblocks can be bretty comfy, but I really don't see how you can call them "pretty"
Jack Gonzalez
Best Korea
Nathan Hall
I think it's one of those Chinese cities that are right next to each other
Cameron Stewart
Hello /urban/ c:
Im gonna vote for chongqing here because there's something really cool about asian cities and chongqing looks cyberpunk af.
Nooo what are you saying, chinese characters(especially in neon) make everything better.
Easton Miller
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Asher Clark
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Jace Bailey
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Matthew Hill
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Jace Young
Vote Chicago
But Chongqing has a really nice skyline
Adam Sullivan
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Oliver Ramirez
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Cameron Bailey
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Joseph Campbell
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Xavier Jackson
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Dominic Cruz
>tfw the thunder shook my house
Jaxson Price
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Xavier Clark
The storm was moving south. Eventually hit me and the temp probably dropped 10 degrees in less than a minute
Kevin White
jesus christ
where's the green
John Cooper
Chongqing is more exotic and beautiful and full of longing. Vote.
Parker Parker
The fast temperature drop felt nice. Can't wait for winter though.
Jayden Thomas
>where's the green
Josiah Wood
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Jace Kelly
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Sebastian Martinez
Is chicago really that flat?
Are there any distinct characteristics of chicago architecture that makes it different from chongqing?
Oliver Powell
Woops, accidental sage
Jaxson Collins
>cant wait for winter
Yeah i love that lake front wind cutting through my jacket like it was a hot knife in butter
Daniel Ortiz
Feels good and energizing desu. It really wakes you up.
Oliver Butler
Arlington has a pretty cute skyline
John Reed
Chicago was built on what was essentially a marshy mouth of a slow moving river.
It wasn't totally flat, there were places of higher ground and ridges. However the low level of the ground, often less than a meter above the river and lake meant that the streets were almost always muddy. It also made installing sewers impossible.
So they raised the street heigh enough to install sewers and prevent plumbing. All of the buildings downtown were raised a story, some being fairly large stone/brick hotels 5+ stories tall.
Many of the streets today are still raised, and most of the rest of Chicago was level out, at least near downtown.
Some place were never raised though, and in certain neighborhoods there are lots of houses still at original grade, with the street above the first floor.
Ryan Smith
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