Why is it that Marxism mostly attracts college-educated people and intellectuals, but not the working class who'd be the main benefactors of socialism. In fact there's very often a snide contempt for the working class from leftist intellectuals. They tend to be ridiculed as illiterate hayseeds who believe in nationalism, religion, and other bourgeois concepts. Even Lenin declared that the Russian peasants were not capable of managing their own affairs and a small, disciplined party vanguard was needed to show them the way.
You are american, you can't understand anything that is to the left of Hitler.
Sup Forums isnt the place to get educated, comparing farmers in russia 100 years ago to modern working class people? Seriously?
Michael Miller
have confidence in academic career + no money = oh shit, I never forgive dumb rich with nothing but money.
partly true though.
Jackson Taylor
because hegelian materialism or the corruption there of
Noah Taylor
>americans talking about marxism hoo boy here we go like watching a puppy try and use powertools
Lucas Walker
>Even Lenin declared that the Russian peasants were not capable of managing their own affairs Lies. peasants did good since early XXth century until the civil war and collectivisation. There were lots of villages that managed their farms very good, they were the base for food production in Russia. After Bolsheviks took their property, a big crisis and famines hit the country because it lost 50% of cattle.
>a small, disciplined party vanguard was needed to show them the way He just wanted authoritarian power like a king. Killing capitalism was a dumb decision for enhancement but they never had this goal. They just wanted money and power for themselves like many kings who committed coups before.
Brayden Nelson
intelligence is not wisdom, often the two are inversely correlated
typically intellectualism makes you prideful and that is the enemy of true wisdom
Jack Turner
this would be a prime example of this
Hudson Watson
>peasants did good since early XXth century until the civil war and collectivisation. Have some education fagget scisne.net/a-647
Zachary Williams
your post in one phrase >ebil bolsheviks
Andrew Thompson
College educated and "intellectual" have no real world experience and expect everything to play out perfectly like it would in their heads.
The working class knows how the world really works and understands Marxism has no foundation in reality and couldn't last more than a few years before corruption ruins it.
It's literally a case of delusion vs disillusion.
Camden Williams
They did better than before WWI + civil war.
Obivously. If you throw money and people away, you become poor and broken.
Kayden Phillips
>hurr-durr ordodoxy or death!111 Пoeздкa нa гoлoд 1912 Read some letters faggot
Brody Ward
because the working class does not want communism, it's not snide contempt but rather communism is not compatible with the current working class in turning them over the old fashioned way
also marxism itself is not as popular as you might think, not for his communistic ideals ofc, that's all gone to the bin since the post-structural french 40 years ago
everything else is just pointless attack on some familiar words
there is a movement in some humanities about some minority representation in the pursuit of the aesthetics something about the old ways was system that perpetuates one type of thinking, this has little to do with communism but a corruption of works of the critical theory about the inablity for any (emphasis) aesthetics to be free of propaganda, ie, the Sup Forums cultural marxists are making the same mistake as they intent to fight
Kevin Sanchez
Who are you quoting? Life before the revolution was far from ideal but it became hell when bolsheviks overcame. It's a well-known fact.
Asher Taylor
I have a theory and it's probably shit but:
Intellectualism = High income High income = Have much better quality of life Higher quality of life = Guilt Guilt = Adopting left wing politics
Look at Hollywood, it's like 100% left wing.
Wouldn't you feel bad if you lived in a six story house with a pool whilst there were people starving to death in the streets? And I don't mean starving African children which you see every day I mean normal American children that can't afford to eat every day. Think that's just normal human empathy desu.
William Jones
All revolutions are lead by disillusioned members of the elites. Hitler is the only exception I can think of.
To learn and understand Marx requires intelligence, time and energy. To even start to learn hi requires independent thinking and questioning the basic assumptions of the society.
The US is pretty meritocratic for adults, the class segregation happens early on in youth and childhood, se the sort of capable sharp minds that can study it are not really from the working people.
Now David Harvey and Michael Parenti do theach this stuff to lower classes, so it's not just the upper classes nowadays.
Yeah. Marxism is the best analytic tool for the economy, but it too is lacking. The failures of communism largely came from the ideologues not being willing to recognize the shortcomings of Marxism.
Henry Cooper
Also it gets them into politics and all sorts of shit they can dump money into for tax breaks.
Logan Gonzalez
This is not true of course, socialism and workers' movements were very widespread among the proletariat for a good deal of the 20th century. What happened after 1965 was a gradual reactionary revival of laisse-faire capitalist exploitation by puppets of the rich like Reagan and Thatcher.
Elijah Gutierrez
Stalin declared Kulaks enemies of the people because they were independent and a little better off the most of the rabble. Millions were murdered and starved and over a million deported to Siberia. Once there they once again got wealthier then the rabble because (surprise, surprise) peasants only got richer in the first place if they are smarter/more hardworking and that didn't change even after all that abuse
Chase Parker
>nonslavs discussing communism
where is my folding chair
James Adams
>Look at Hollywood, it's like 100% left wing. Bullshit, Hollywood are mostly liberals. Warmongers, imperialists and neoliberals.
Lot of the actors and such have experience poverty so they do sometimes have left wing ideas. It is called cmopassion.
Ryder Gray
And what " real world experience " does the working class have? Anyway, if considering that they have this experience, another problem arises - they're poor educated and not able to refute marxism.
Jaxon Long
>became hell when bolsheviks overcame. Yep, living more than 30 years is a fucking hell. >It's a well-known fact Just fuck you tzarist scum.
Justin Jenkins
because its gye ahaha
Joseph Wright
They wish to replace the nobility or Capitalist Leaders with their own and keep the lower classes as their Thralls. They believe everyone else is a child who they should tell what to do despite adhering to a seriously flawed ideology. Also in more modern times the less critical thinkers in college our brainwashed by professors who have little to no real world experience.
what happened was revolutions has failed time and time again and that theorists in the 70s believe that either it was never possible through revolution or that capitalism is inherently anti-revolutionary
>very widespread they were widespread but meaningless according to marx if you are not actively doing anarchy , like the columbian rebels or the commandant, you are not doing marxism, ofc you can have a groupie talk about it all your life but that's what marx exactly pointed out as "socialists" his favorite enemy
Angel Thomas
I'm Romanian
David Cruz
yup, brought one for you
Carter Flores
>>>/berniesanders/
Brandon Adams
>It's a well-known fact. Sure. In minds of right wingers. Use this fallacy somewhere else.
Brody Lee
Group X steals money from Group Y
that is politics for you,eventually it will always come to that,thats why "intellectuals" like politics,lots of money involved
It attracts people who THINK they are smarter than and want to rule over other people. That's why so many exist in academia, yeah they get degrees in something eventually because they never leave school and get a real job (just like Marx). Most of the "educated intellectuals" the lefties are always so proud of have degrees in humanities and bullshit any retard can obtain. They are cranked out of large metropolitan areas with easy access to schools and public transportation that makes fucking around aimlessly in college as long as possible attractive VS "Joe more rural guy" who is isn't going to bother going into debt with some useless degree when he can start making more money welding or something.
Julian Perez
its all the bolsheviks fault ever since they killed alexander II, since then russia is just a miserable beaten up joke far from what it used to be, its like waiting for a joke to end but it never end
Oliver Bennett
>Intellectualism = High income >High income = Have much better quality of life >Higher quality of life = Guilt >Guilt = Adopting left wing politics The guilt thing I've noticed for some. They have good intentions but I think they may blind themselves to harsh realities.
Eli Rodriguez
I didn't insult you. Please, return the favour and be polite.
>tzarist Don't project too.
How do you justify the destruction of our country's economy? Famines? Robbery in villges by the government? Repressions? Abolishment of private business? The reason we are in the ruins lies in that mistake. They managed to maintain it somehow later but very poorly. And it failed as you know.
Josiah Rodriguez
Not in America. At best we had a kind of soft socialism here in the mid-20th century.
Jaxson Torres
Because the working class doesn't give a fuck, they care more about their immediate needs (food, housing, fugging, other trivial things) than some ideal society thought by a gommie more than a hundred years ago.
Isaac Martin
Did you know that the average life expectancy in the USSR in 1962 was higher than the US. But by 1982, it was 5 years below ours.
Dylan Nelson
Oh look, who has appeared. You understand you just proved nothing, famines happened in tsarist Russia, and they were more regular thing back when. Your number of victims is just an estimation since no one knows the real numbers and many western and anti-communist historians and politicians speculate about them.
Mason Martin
Your picture shows the progress of medicine. It doesn't really diaprove the facts like fucking up almost everything.
Something unrelated.
>Use this fallacy How is official history a fallacy?
Jose Cox
It takes a more reflective & introspective mind to take a broader perspective and see a better alternative.
Someone who's had his nose in the dirt all his life isn't likely to see such things. Everything he learned taught him to keep his head down and work until the day he can't work anymore. That's where his usefulness ends.
This is literally the whole reason the west has been so dominant in world history. More people here were able to be philosophers, thinkers, inventors, than in other places in the world. Because with good crops and cattle, and good innovations like mills, successively less people were required to work to keep everyone fed. Thus freeing up more people to do other things to advance society. And it's an exponential effect. Mankind today advances faster than ever before because less people than ever before are required to work with providing food for everyone. Soon, it won't require barely any people at all.
The silent majority needs leadership if there is to be real change. Revolutionaries lead the way. That's why party leaders are so very important in the US. Their leadership is essential to steer the country as a whole.
Jacob Smith
I never understood why people think communism would work Even if it somehow was implemented perfectly (which never happened) it still offers almost no incentives for hard work and innovation.
Grayson Wood
How was killing peasants good? How was robbing them good? How was destroying a working capitalist system good? Records prove that it was a catastrophe. Our current state too.
Dominic Miller
Because intellectuals are more removed from reality and are, ironically, much easier to trick and indoctrinate.
Jacob Robinson
are you saying the soviets were lazy
Adam Cook
Interestingly enough that chair design is one of gommie China's few "inventions".
Ryder Barnes
Check the degrees of college educated Marxists
Luis Cox
>famines happened in tsarist Russia, and they were more regular thing back when This shows that communists were as bad in this field. And worse in others. Also proofs.
James Stewart
>sure, 7kk dead is nothing for brainwashed kacap Of course they actually dieid! Population of Ukraine in 1922 - 26 230 000 Population of Ukraine in 1926 - 29 227 700 Population of Ukraine in 1930 - 29 617 000
Holodomor 1932-33
Population of Ukraine in 1933 - 31 901 400
And again fuck_you.
James Lee
Economy is only one part of life expectancy. Genetics and diet play a big part.
Cooper Lewis
>Because intellectuals are more removed from reality This too. Students have no practical experience. Students were a big force in Marxist movement, they were just dellusional kids that grew into selfish terrorists who knew only anger and were short-sighted.
Ryan Brown
>How is official history a fallacy? Saying "it's a well known fact" has nothing to do with official history. Anyway, I meant this.
Dont reply to this post, not going to keep discussing with you.
Zachary Clark
Famines were not only in Ukraine, they strted on Volga.
>Population of Ukraine in 1926 - 29 227 700 Only this number is legit, it is from the census. Others are doubtful.
Oliver Torres
yes
Noah Morris
>But by 1982, it was 5 years below ours. The answer is alcoholism. (consumption of spirits)
Leo King
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
t. Garl Margs
Justin Turner
>How does that work? Classism and cognitive dissonance.
Liam Flores
Syaing "fallacy" to common facts is the same. Above there was real data that showed how bad Bolshevism hit Russia. You didn't show how it compensated for the assassination of millions of peasants and making the country more poor.
Christian Peterson
sounds great, I have no ability and my needs are enormous
Charles Taylor
because they are PSEUDO intellectuals, not intellectuals. the word has been appropriated
Christopher Ward
>Famines were not only in Ukraine, they strted on Volga. Well, all these millions of "deaths" is a people who have nothing to eat in 1932, but most of them have survived.
Luke Young
marx was okay with voucher as long as it is only tradable for a few things
Ryan Campbell
Because the working class are grounded in reality and want to improve their situation instead of bringing everyone else down
Robert Morgan
>not going to keep discussing Because you can't deliver any arguments moving goalposts instead.
>all these millions of "deaths" is a people who have nothing to eat in 1932 Yes, when people die from hunger, it is called a famine. >most of them have survived Does that justifydeaths? Other destructions? Picrelated?
Luke Lee
Today's factory workers are well paid, have plenty of benefits and are usually satisfied.
The unsatisfied workers of today are the ones working in services, those have no "means of production" and are too diverse.
Ayden Williams
>How was killing peasants good? How was robbing them good? Try improve your knowledge about collectivization. >How was destroying a working capitalist system good? It was barely a good working system, more than half of finincial institutions and industrial capacities in Russia belonged to foreign investors, budget deficit was financed by loans in foreign banks; therefore Russia was slowly turing into a semi-colony of the West. >It was a catastrophe. Due to being involved in WW1, terrible inefficiency of the tsarist regime, the civil war and the foreign intervention, but not bolsheviks. >Our current state too. The result of the collapse of the USSR, but not soviet systme itself.
Wyatt Rogers
Do people even bother reading up about Marx, not just what he wrote? He was a hypocrite who blew huge amount of money trying to pretend he was rich. Said money came from his industrialist friend that was exploiting his workers
James Campbell
>Picrelated? Wars and revolutions causing deaths. What a deal! But you know what was in Russia in 1917 february (when tsarists Russia literally ceased to existt)? I mean, Lenin arrived to Russia only in April 1917.
Julian Sanchez
>It was barely a good working system, more than half of finincial institutions and industrial capacities in Russia belonged to foreign investors, budget deficit was financed by loans in foreign banks; therefore Russia was slowly turing into a semi-colony of the West. Yes, let's kill some hard working peasants. That's gonna fix out problems
Jaxson Turner
I'd prefer to kill some romanins to prevent them from shitposting on Sup Forums.
Kayden Morris
More data from evil capitalism.
>Try improve your knowledge about collectivization. 50% of cattle lost = famines and poverty.
>therefore Russia was slowly turing into a semi-colony of the West No, investments don't work like that. Look at this .
>inefficiency >foreign intervention True.
>civil war >but not bolsheviks Now you just can't hold it together. Bolsheviks destroyed capitalism. Russian businesses were destroyed. That is the reason the country was frozen in time for 70 years and now we start from zero. We are 70 years or more behing other Europe.
>The result of the collapse of the USSR, but not soviet systme itself. It was Soviet system that stopped the progress because there was no competition and no motivation. The system stopped technical progress literally. No business = no modern technologies.
Chase Powell
Typo because I changed the text. Look at the rise in the XIXth century. Capitalism is the only working system we know. It is far from perfect but it is better than socialism where everything is controlled by a small group of people that can not be competent enough in all questions and can not be movivated enough. Also all repressions of the regime.
Eli King
>hurr-durr GDP!!11 Your lie is really finny cuz you only taking small frames from whole picture.
Bentley Turner
You can't implement left-wing ideas if you believe in the utopia of communism or world revolution, like most leftists do. The best way to have left-wing ideas in action without detriment to society is to have a socially cohesive, harmonious state with a high degree of ethnic homogeneity. Examples include much of Western Europe and Scandinavia before those countries started losing their harmony by massively importing migrants.
What about the Bolsheviks, they did bring some results in terms of public goods, but they were highly barbaric and uncivilized on the inside. Just like Putin's oligarchy which may seem capitalist and liberal on the outside.
Cooper Young
>Look at the rise in the XIXth century Have a look
Thomas Green
How can you seriously say shit like this? >Due to being involved in WW1, terrible inefficiency of the tsarist regime, the civil war and the foreign intervention, but not bolsheviks. You can't have a party declare a revolution and then absolve themselves for responsibility over how shitty the revolution was. >The result of the collapse of the USSR, but not soviet systme itself. And now you're saying the USSR isn't responsible for the exposure of its own defectiveness.
Jordan Roberts
This has already been posted.
Jaxon Long
The leaders of socialism have usually been the most educated as they are articulate and have insight, however to say that regular working class people have not been swayed by socialism and communism is just lies.
Unions are 99% working class for example, and unions gave workers control over the means of production, better work conditions, wages and work hours.
Sadly neo-liberals have taken over the labor parties and have killed the unions with their free flow of capital and labor across borders.
Ayden Collins
Your picture proves my point. It shows how we were affected by not only WWI but the civil war too. Answer questions above. How is it good to destroy the only working system and not compensationg? People hated the system not for nothing and they dreamed about the end of communists not for nothing. At least we have chances to improve now even though we are yet ruled by the same people. Authoritarian powers like Absolutism and Soviet Socialism are both anti-prigressive and anti-human. If you want the socialim back it means you want less freedom to just people to make things they want and improve their lives and the country. The thing wee need is more economical freedoms and more democracy, not more monopolies (both government and private). It is literally the only practical way possible to make lives better in our circumstances.
Juan Clark
>The leaders of socialism have usually been the most educated as they are articulate and have insight Yes, but the means by which communism gains power (terrorism, assassination, violence) are a breeding ground for violent schemers and it's usually the schemers that end up on top.
There were lots of intellectual communists in the USSR but Stalin killed all of them
Logan Jones
Vlad, do not reply to me in the future.
Nolan Peterson
Your stories are so naive, I dont really bother to reply to you, but I'll try. >Bolsheviks destroyed capitalism. Russian businesses were destroyed. They destroyed the power of capitalist, but some kind of capitalism existed in 20s. >That is the reason the country was frozen in time for 70 years and now we start from zero Again, if it would be frozen, we had to start from literally nothing, not taking into account the soviet achievments, so as you can see, that's just not true. The main reason of the failures of the 90s was not the soviet legacy, but incompetence of the reformers (seems they werent really intrested in successful economic transition).
Wyatt Gutierrez
Because if it did, you'd already have experience with communism
Alexander Long
>how shitty the revolution was. It wasnt, so I dont really get what you're implying. >And now you're saying the USSR isn't responsible for the exposure of its own defectiveness. The soviet system, of course, wasnt perfect, but it could've been fixed istead of just destroying it; as a result it led to the economical and social collapse of Russia in the 90s.
Nolan Stewart
>Your picture proves my point. My pic proves that USSR was way better than Russian Empire. > but the civil war too Well, the white movement is in charge for a civil war.
>How is it good to destroy the only working system and not compensationg? Yep, destroying communism was a bad idea. And if you about 1917, the just get some education: ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Фeвpaльcкaя_peвoлюция
>they dreamed about the end of communists not for nothing I don't care about these degenerates.
>Authoritarian powers like Absolutism and Soviet Socialism are both anti-prigressive and anti-human. Some crazy magic spells.
>It wasnt, so I dont really get what you're implying. >[It was a catastrophe] due to being involved in WW1, terrible inefficiency of the tsarist regime, the civil war and the foreign intervention, but not bolsheviks. Get your story strait or eat shit, apologist.
Kevin Scott
>>[It was a catastrophe] due to being involved in WW1, terrible inefficiency of the tsarist regime, the civil war and the foreign intervention, but not bolsheviks. Is there anything you dont get in this statement? (you)
Elijah Brown
>My pic proves that USSR was way better than Russian Empire That's just because technology improved greatly during that period. Compared to non-communist counties your growth was pretty slow
Benjamin Young
>technology improved By itself? >your growth was pretty slow After destroyng more than half of economy in 41-45.
Ryan Richardson
are you slow? >By itself? Technology improved world wide. It would have happened regardless of whether Russia was communist or not. After destroyng more than half of economy in >After destroyng more than half of economy in 41-45 That happened to most counties in the would.
Asher Wright
And guys, plz read about February revolution before arguing about 1917 and something connected with bolsheviks.
Landon Cook
> It would have happened regardless of whether Magic!
>That happened to most counties in the would. Only in Germany and USSR, but Germany was rebuilded by Marshall plan.
Ethan Walker
thanks for outing yourself as a retard so i won't have to bother answering anymore
