>cowboys didn't wear cowboy hats (not the big ones we see in westerns that is)
>swords were a meme
>vikings were shit fighters
>samurai didn't use katana as their main weapon
>greeks painted statues and it looked like shit
>gladiators usually didn't fight to death
history is disappointing I wanna forget everything and eat the shit Hollywood throws at me again
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>swords were a meme
Why?
>swords were a meme
Wrong tho.
Of course most foot soldiers were issued spears, but swords were very real and present.
Aside from few odd exceptions like Romans they were mostly just sidearms.
I thought they were widely used, but just by knighthood. Regular soldiers used less expensive, and easier to handle weapons, like spears. Same with heavy armours. Because of the price, only actual knights have used them.
Why do you think there were so many swordplay manuals in Medieval Europe?
>swords were a meme
This is bait
Knights used mostly lances and when they fought on foot they liked to uses poleaxes.
Blame mass media for indoctrinating stereotypical views of history and cultures.
Name some armies that used predominantly swords.
Vikings were opportunistic AND good fighters. One doesn't exclude the other. They created Kievan Rus, they served as mercenaries in Byzantine Empire, they created one of the strongest states of the middle ages based on Sicily.
Samurai used the Katana as their main weapon when fighting in villages/cities. You don't take a spear or a bow to a brawl. Spears and bows were used in field battles only. So you'd see a Samurai wearing his katana much more than you would see him using a spear or a bow. Katana is your handgun, spear/bow is your rifle. And the same applies to Europe. Swords are expensive and used mostly by knights and even these used maces too, especially the more you travel to eastern europe. But any one living at the time would probably see their lord walking around with his sword more than he would walk around with any other weapon.
Greeks painted the statues, maybe they looked like shit, maybe they didn't, maybe, like all art, its quality changes from individual work to individual work.
And why do you think that everytime a gladiator loses he should die a bad thing? That's like saying you'd find it cool that anyone practicing a sport today should invariably be forced to abandon it the moment he loses. People like losses, come backs, rises, falls, etc. If we didn't allow any of this to happen, it'd be a shit sport.
>greeks painted statues and it looked like shit
this is the saddest one
>muh Byzantine Empire
there were Saxons and even turkroaches serving them as well so it's not vikings being special snowflakes
en.wikipedia.org
pathetic record
So what if Saxons and Turks served the Emperor? What logic are you using here?
>Vikings weren't the only good ones so they are bad
And they still managed to turn two backwater places (sicily and kievan rus) into powerful medieval states.
Except Rurik was finnish.
those painted statues looked like shit indeed.
maybe it looked good to them, and maybe they had a taste for it 3000-2500 years ago
but to our modern tastes, it looks like shit.
Based on what?
COWBOYS ARE ORIGINALLY FROM MÉXICO, NOT THAT SHIT HOLLYWOOD SELLS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>Some Dinosaurs had feathers.
>we wuz cowboyz n sheit
I am a little bit triggered desu
Sword weren't a meme. Yes, spears were more commonly used through history because they are cheaper and and require less training to use, but in Europe they did see a lot of use.
I thought the Argies invented them
>le spear were peasant's weapon meme xD
Hoplites, knights before they switched to lances, early Romans, samurai, persian immortals, and pretty much any military unit regardless of their status disagree.
>not being a horse archer
can infantry even compete?
>swords were a meme
Can confirm, scimmy and any whip will be better, unless we are talking about god swords
Paco is right tho
Samurai's main weapon was a bow.
Spears were more common than swords in ancient history, but sword was the the basic weapon of any military unit in Medieval period.
Spears were still used but not as much as swords, at least in Europe.
Stop shitposting btw.
Samurai can't use his katana, cuz it will be broken to pieces after few hits, they had shitty iron in that times.
Russia still has shitty iron
After 13th century samurai used spears you mongol. Also basic weapons for medieval military was still either a spear or later on other polearms swords were always sidearms you dumb fuck.
Why do people assume that they painted them only once?
The pigments they found on the statues could just have been a base colour on which further layers were applied.
Maybe they had realistically painted statues who looked like waxfigures.
omg, unexpected polish butthurt even here
VAQUEROS ARE SPANISH NOT MEXICAN
>Swords were a meme
More exact is to say they were status symbols.
Swords were expensive as they required a lot more iron than any other weapon. Because they were expensive, only the upper class could afford them and they became a symbol of being a knight etc.
During war, cheaper weapons were much more relevant and efficient, but when you were at home, strolling through the village, you wanted the ladies to see you were carrying a sword, bitches love swords.
Vachers are French, not Spanish
Nah, you are wrong. Not that I expected much from a pole.
Read a history book, go to a museum or even talk to history teacher since you obviously are 15-years old or younger.
Not gonna sit here arguing with complete drooling retard, who disregards historical evidence.
I'll add
>swords were never used!
to my list of most idiotic arguments I have ever heard.
Cheers.
Cowboy hats suck man, unless you standing still they blow off your head all the time, I just use a baseball cap does alright but at least you don't go chasing after it.
Just try wearing/performing any of the acts romanticized by staples of culture, you'll find out the only people that did that horse shit were fedora tier mlady.
KHAN'D
I never said they were never used you imbecile I said they were sidearms. Name some armies that used swords as their main weapon.
most of them
If an army had 400 spearmen, 400 archers and 200 lancers a it would have 400 spears, 400 bows, and 1000 swords
>historical evidence
good thing you didn't post any
>unexpected
>polish butthurt
Choose one, and only one
forgot 200 lances
And your source is?
Vaqueiros were brazilian
why do other cunts even care about cowboys. astronauts > cowboys
u r wrong
and dumb, u have sources bc u r talking shit
kill urself
>main weapon
What the fuck are you talking about?
Name any army that made use of only one kind of weapon?
The only moment you see an army actually having a "main weapon" is the Swiss, and it was fucking horrible and only lasted for a couple of decades because quickly halberds, muskets and swords were added to the composition.
Name any army that made use of any one weapon as their "main weapon" or whatever you mean by this.
You said it yoursel. It was a sidearm
The spearman would have a spear as the main weapon and a sword as the sidearm
The archer would have a bow as the main weapon and a sword as the sidearm etc
Also when not at war you could go about your business while you carries a sword on your belt so it was the main self defense weapon
>main weapon
Name one army before the age of gunpowder that had a "main weapon"
Swords were the best when fighting in close quarters, but were ofcourse useless against archers out of range
they were first called 'butteri' (plural of 'buttero') and came from southern Tuscany
not even memeing, look up
most soldiers couldn't afford a fucking sword sidearm though you dumb shit, also those things are heavy as fuck. Do you think on top of everything else pikeman just carried along swords too.
Give a fucking source or fuck off you dumb armchair historian memer, go to a fucking museum and educate yourself you idiotic braindead moron or at least read a fucking book ffs.
I know you medis are a little not right in the head but that's som new level you hoped on. What part of ''main weapon'' sounds like ''only weapon'' to you? Greek hoplites used spears as their main weapon but that doesn't mean it was their only one as I said three times in this thread swords were sidearms..
>Do you think on top of everything else pikeman just carried along swords too.
yes you fucking retard
phalanx, horse archer
tercios and contemporary armies had two main weapons
you're trying to prove that armies were diverse to claim that swords were relevant?
you're wrong, people used bows and spears often and swords weren't relevant. This is just how it is.
Swords have an important part in culture, because sword duels look cool. That's it.
Swords and morning stars and stuff like that were rarely used weapons for wealthy leaders, commanders, knights, but had little relevance in the actual fight.
from the wiki, you undereducated retard:
>Weapons[edit]
>Landsknechts were trained in the use of the
>famous long pikes and used the pike square
>formations developed by the Swiss. The
>majority of Landsknechts would use pikes, but
>others, meant to provide tactical assistance to
>the pikemen, accordingly used different
>weapons.
>pikes
>pikes
>pikes
>pikes
>firearms
>and yeah some ppl have had special tasks and used weapons accordingly (lol)
you proved my point, now kill yourself
i guess every fifth landsknecht used a flute or a drum in the battle too
dumbass memer
for dueling nobles who could afford to buy the books, the actual battle tactics would get taught by word of mouth
Thats a fact... in Total War
>Do you think on top of everything else pikeman just carried along swords too.
Yes. Any professional soldier could have up to two weapons at least. Some (mostly outside of europe) had up to three.
And what part of "every professional soldier in europe used a sword" sounds like to you? Professional warriors all made use of swords. Cavalrymen in europe went from lance to pistol to lance again but throught all of this they kept using swords.
Swords were used in infatry formations of Tercios, an update to Swiss pike formations because those were shit in comparison to 1/3 pikes, 1/3 muskets, 1/3 swords. In Germany they liked to make use of 1/3 two handed swords instead of the Spanish one handed swords.
Of course if you're an untrained unprofessional peasant you'd be armed with a shitty spear, or a bow if you know how to use one. But the fact is that professional soldiers all made extensive use of swords.
And you're fucking dense, you know that? Hoplites used the spear AND the sword. The spear at front and the swords in the back to quickly manouvre through the locked spears and start slashing.
every pikeman had a sword.
every gunner had a sword
This is what a trecio gunner looked like.
Notice the sword
>those things are heavy as fuck. Do you think on top of everything else pikeman just carried along swords too.
A long sword weighted less than 3kg. That's literally nothing.
I am not dissapointed by any of this, it's nice to know how things work in the practical world. But... almost every fight scene in movies or series seem ridiculous to me for about 2 years.
But I didn't know vikings were bad at fighting?
Only Texas cowboys wore the hats you see in westerns they were also the only cowboys to carry revolvers on them.
Florida cowboys used bullwhips
California cowboys stayed on ranches and wore lots of silver
Rocky mountain cowboys wore those woolly chaps
Saying they made extensive use of swords because they carried them alongside polearms is like saying Americans made an extensive use of Colt M1911A1 in Vietnam.
Agree (but thats not literal bc 3kg arent nothing jeje)
Damn you ARE dense.
Do you think the Spanish would add 1/3 of swordsmen to their infantry formations for shit and giggles?
The cowboys that shoot their guns in the air and get into fights with Indians are American.
Mexican cowboys stayed on family ranches and wore those giant sombreros with those matador like outfits
Tbqh yes
Tbqh yes.
Actually the biggest Zweihänders weighed about 3.2 kg, usually less than 3.
A one handed would weigh more like 1.5 kg
I killed a rabbit with a crossbow
>please let me be a sheep i dont want to think for myself
how about you go read more on the subject and come back after
"Main weapon" isnt "only weapon"
And the fact that the sword was a sidearm doesnt mean that all the fckin army had a sword
>let me single out a very late elite pikeman formation from the era of discoveries, not even the medieval era, where some people had swords as irrelevant sidearms
first of all, you're already deflecting, the question was, did swords have relevance in hand-to hand warfare
and you proved that they didn't, since tercious didn't use fucking swords unless the formations were broken up, they were secondary weapons
and they could carry around swords, because it was not in the medieval era, but already the era of discoveries you sad fucks
more and cheaper metals, standing armies, and yes, SLIMMER FUCKING BLADES
do you think they could carry around a lower quality, heavier medieval sword?
also have a pic too ;^)
WHERE IS THE SWORD??
around the 14th century and after it did
Greek phalanxes used swords too.
Mounted horse arches also used swords and lances, sometimes all of the 3. See how Mongols fought, see how Turks fought, etc.
And if swords weren't relevant, they wouldn't be something that was in use since ancient times up until WWI.
If you think about it, bows and spears were used less than swords and quicker to made obsolete than swords.
that's a modern drawing you absolute retard
WHERE IS THE SWORD???
EVERY PIKEMAN WOULD GET A SWORD, RIGHT? :^)
IT'S VERY ECONOMICAL, WHEN YOU CAN BARELY AFFORD A FUCKING PIKEHEAD
another modern example
it shows a weapon of equal relevance as swords :^)
You seem to be eager to reduce every european army of the middle ages to their pleb infantry.
i hate trying to reason with religious fanatics
hahahahaha
yeah, they totally did sometimes
EXCEPT WHEN THEY DIDN'T AND THEY HAD THE SAME FUCKING JOB AS SPEARMEN AS ALWAYS BECAUSE NO ONE GAVE A SHIT ABOUT FUCKING SWORDS YOU CAN'T USE ANYWAY IN FORMATION AND ONLY MAKE HAND-TO-HAND COMBAT EASIER YOU DUMB FUCKING FAGGOT MEMER
YES, SWORDS HAD THE EXACT RELEVANCE IN THE AGE OF HOWITZERS AND FUCKING MACHINE GUNS AS NICE SIDEARMS FOR __________SOME_________ PEOPLE
FUCKING SWORDFAG AUTISTS KILL YOURSELF KILL YOURSELVES YOU STUPID BASEMENT DWELIING FAT FUCKS Y DO U EVEN LIVE
Ok dude, pretty much no one ever used swords ever.
You're right. Now please take your antiswords religion and go somewhere else
YES, BECAUSE THE ELITE USED HORSES
FUCKING HORSES AND CHARGED THE HORSES INTO BATTLE
SO THE DAMAGE WAS DONE BY THE FUCKING HORSE
OR
OR
OR
HEAR ME OUT
OR WITH SOMETHING THAT CAN REACH THE FUCKING ENEMY FROM HORSEBACK YOU DUMB FAGGOT
NOT A SWORD FOR CHRIST THE LIVING GOD'S SAKE
SO YOU SHOULD BOW DOWN ON THE HORSE AND POKE AROUND WHAT THE FUCK ARE THINGKING??
The bigger ones were likely ceremonial senpai.
not an argument
u haven't presented 1 solid argument instead of anecdotes about firearm era standing armies
you made a huge claim that EVERY ARCHER
EVERY PIKEMAN
ALL OF THEM
went to war with swords
which is absolutely LUDICROUS if you think for one second about the industrial and economic state of Europe and the state of metallurgy at that era.
If they had a spare little money they would have invested into better armor, since most footsoldier didn't have the proper armor, not just because it would make movement harder which was the argument at later eras, but simply because even the one he could wear and enjoy the protection he couldn't afford.
Uprising armies, most common pikeman, archers, commoners commended to take up arms by their lords DIDN'T IN FACT HAD SWORDS, which was my point, which contradicts your "clever" bonmot about how many swords did the army need, you fucking faggot.
fuck off u dumb memer and kys
you seem mad as hell
mad as hell for no reason
You can steal our jobs but you cant steal our cowboys faggot
>swords were a meme
In the Swedish Karoliner armies, who were likely the best armies of the day soldier-for-soldier, every third infantryman would have a pike and the other two thirds would be armed with a musket and a sword. Their muskets would not be reloaded, but fired in devastating volleys at very short range to soften up the enemy line for a sword and pike charge. The cavalry were armed with pistols and swords and would employ similar tactics to the infantry: fire their pistols once and then charge in with swords.
>vikings were shit fighters
Byzantine emperors would not employ shit fighters as royal guards / shock troops.