8700k

Can someone fucking explain why Intel isn't using a better way to transfer heat from the cpu to the ihs?
It just seems crazy that you can get 25 degrees lower temps in OC full loads because of a delid.
It doesn't make any sense. Why would they sabotage their own product's performance capabilities?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=Bhe85LLQEfw
youtube.com/watch?v=oCSkyNHXIAE
pugetsystems.com/blog/2017/10/07/Why-Do-Hardware-Reviewers-Get-Different-Benchmark-Results-1058/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

save money on thermal paste? why put in the effort when people who want better performance will buy intel anyway and delid/buy quality paste all on their own.

how much is a blob of thermal paste compared to the price of the cpu? 1% of the value? it doesn't make sense

why would intel, as a company only driven by profit, want to make their CPUs better in detriment to profit? only .00001% of users care about this and all of them are forced to buy intel anyway

If they used solder people would not have to delid. Delidding didn't really start until Ivy-bridge, before then it wasn't needed.

1% less profit
dont underestimate jewtel greed

the thermal paste is fine, retard. They're doing this to increase cpu longevity

Because jewtel knows that

>Average users won't know about delidding, and if they do they won't care or will be too scared to void the warranty or kill their CPU
>Their dedicated fanboys / ultra performance enthusiasts that spend thousands on their builds will just delid and replace the TIM with liquid metal or some other paste
>They get to make extra profit from average sales while still letting the extreme overclockers do what they want (overclocking voids warranty anyway so if you're already doing that why not go the extra mile and delid)

Though I still don't see the point, thermal throttling is a real issue and using TIM does hurt the performance of their CPUs in their factory form, as they get hotter and throttle earlier. And require beefier coolers.
It just seems super jewy to cut corners in this side when they want to offer you a 5Ghz capable CPU. You really can't overclock that high without delidding unless you enjoy housefires.

Jewry just knows no end.

The only people who buy these unlocked CPUs are autistic gaymanchildren who will delid anyways, so why even bother.

>It just seems crazy that you can get 25 degrees lower temps in OC full loads because of a delid.
you dont. if overclockers were this autistic and this actually happened people would be soldering coolers or water blocks to their IHS instead of using paste.

>this is what Intelcucks actually believe

You do. Check out some videos on the 7700k delids.

>please google aimlessly to make my argument for me

youtube.com/watch?v=Bhe85LLQEfw

wow that was hard

Good goy

I've watched 10 seconds of this 8 minute video and already want to stab myself in the ears from listening to this autists horrible voice and speech impediments.

Is this a joke?
Literally every gaming benchmark for CPUs recently shows comparison between TIM and delidded with liquid metal.

youtube.com/watch?v=oCSkyNHXIAE

>Blender
>gaming benchmark

You dont understand what a game is do you?

Furthermore your screenshot is a comparision of using grease based thermal paste and liquid metal, both between the the IHS and coldplate. Not anything to do with OP's post.

And your video is even worse at 29 minutes and is a comparison of a i7 vs ryzen. I'm not going to waste a half hour of my life. Go post a text article somewhere instead of listening to some random spurg like Linus.

he's probably foreign
but the point is I was right

Is it really 25 degrees? F or C?

When I first heard about delidding like 5 years ago, the best temp drops I heard where like 6C.

Should I delid my first gen i7?

No you aren't. Go post some text article.

You have no idea how much a company can save by reducing a tiny step.

Back in like 2004 there was an article how Dell saves 7mill per year by only using 2 screws to hold down their PSU in place instead of 4. Shit adds up when you make millions of products each month.

Celsius.

No.

Skip this housefire and get the 8400 for now

>You dont understand what a game is do you?
This is about CPU temps, Blender is a more strenuous load than a game; what's the point of this pedantic nonsense?

>Furthermore your screenshot is a comparision of using grease based thermal paste and liquid metal, both between the the IHS and coldplate. Not anything to do with OP's post.
TIM between IHS and coldplate in both tests, retard, one of which had TIM between IHS and die and the other with LM. You are beyond stupid.

First gen I7s use solder under the IHS instead of thermal paste. There is nothing you can do under the IHS (you'll kill it if you delid) to make thermals better since it already has the best

No, Prime95 would be a appropriate benchmark for a CPU. Blender is just bullshit.

>TIM between IHS and coldplate in both tests
This is even more retarded. So TIM between the die and IHS is bad, but between the IHS and coldplate is just fine.

It saves them pennies and no one cares anyways.

R5 1600*

>No, Prime95 would be a appropriate benchmark for a CPU. Blender is just bullshit.
If you want to go there IBT is better, faster, and makes your CPU run hotter than Prime95. Who gives a fuck when all are placing 100% load on the CPU. Blender is more realistic than either of those anyway -- wasn't that the underlying point behind your bitching about games?

>This is even more retarded. So TIM between the die and IHS is bad, but between the IHS and coldplate is just fine.
Yes, because the die is extremely small and dense and a small fraction of the size of the IHS, requiring greater thermal conductivity to transfer the same amount of heat with a much smaller area of thermal transfer.

Again, you are beyond stupid.

>No, Prime95 would be a appropriate benchmark for a CPU. Blender is just bullshit.
If you'd actually watch the reivew and knew anything you know that prime power cycles and can cause voltage drops

Lol

Hehe, nice joke!

IHS is a heatspreader it's meant to spread the heat from the CPU core to the heatsink cold plate enough that thermal paste can effectively transfer the heat from the IHS to the heatsink.
The die is a very small surface area and thermal paste cannot effectively transfer heat from the die to the IHS.

>7820X substantially slower than 5960X
>800x600
nice "benchmark" you got there chaim

>8400
>OC

...

In the article they said it was just increasing the base clock up

That was tested using a 1080ti, if you use any other GPU they're much closer

Multi-core enhancement, forces the same turbo on all cores.

So if you actually want the best you need to buy a 7740X?

pugetsystems.com/blog/2017/10/07/Why-Do-Hardware-Reviewers-Get-Different-Benchmark-Results-1058/

>Who gives a fuck when all are placing 100% load on the CPU
Its not, pic related

>Blender is more realistic than either of those anyway
Its not. And if you were going for realistic you'd use something like SPEC benchmarks.

>wasn't that the underlying point behind your bitching about games?
No I'm not a fa/g/got. I was just laughing at you for confusing blender for a video game benchmark.

>Yes, because the die is extremely small and dense and a small fraction of the size of the IHS, requiring greater thermal conductivity to transfer the same amount of heat with a much smaller area of thermal transfer.
The IHS isnt some magical device which evenly distributes heat across its surface. Anyways stay retarded, and stay jelly of my soldered Xeons.

I'm not watching a half hour video of some autist with so many speech impediments that it makes me want to kill myself.

The IHS is meant to distribute the physical load from the headsink across a greater surface area to prevent the die from being cracked.

Top kek

Get the fuck out you nigger. It's disgusting to see someone defending such a nasty market practice like their life depends on it. You shills should be purged from this world.

Every cherry-picked low-resolution DX11 gaymen benchmark showing the colossal 110fps vs 120fps delta between Intel and AMD will still not change the general picture. If you fit the small niche of people whose primary activity is playing gaymes at 144Hz 1080p then buy Intel, sure. For the rest of us, $300 1700X beats $400 8700K in rendering and most productivity, and 1600(X) edges ahead of the SMT-less and cache starved i5.

I'm sorry but I cant hear you from my ivory Xeon tower.

>I'm not watching a half hour video of some autist with so many speech impediments that it makes me want to kill myself.
You need to seek help, just stop posting, you ignored why prime95 is bad for Thermal Testing.

>base clock up
>Multi-core enhancement

Wrong on both counts. They overclocked the uncore to 4GHz, since its multiplier isn't locked.

>if you use any other GPU they're much closer
>If you create a GPU bottleneck to hide the 1600's performance deficit, its performance deficit is hidden.

Woah...

Do people really care about 10-15% gains in games when an 8 core ryzen will be better at just about everything else you do on your computer?
Besides, your video card will matter a lot more than your cpu unless it gets bottlenecked.

Of course, it's a Sup Forumseddit certified fanboy.

>you ignored why prime95 is bad for Thermal Testing.
No I didnt. All you're doing is making baseless claims and autistically screeching about legacy software so ghetto is doesnt even have a website.

>Its not, pic related
CPU is still being loaded to 100% regardless of what it's being loaded with or whether or not it has to access this or that level of cache or DRAM.

>Its not. And if you were going for realistic you'd use something like SPEC benchmarks.
How fucking pedantic are you going to be about the benchmark when the delta between TIM and LM temperatures is going to be comparable regardless of what particular software you're using to place a heavy load on the CPU?

>No I'm not a fa/g/got. I was just laughing at you for confusing blender for a video game benchmark.
That wasn't me and I don't think that person was referring to that particular benchmark as a game. There was a video linked which you did not watch.

>The IHS isnt some magical device which evenly distributes heat across its surface. Anyways stay retarded, and stay jelly of my soldered Xeons.
No, there isn't even heat distribution, but there's still heat distribution. Not going to keep responding to this inane nonsense.

>The IHS is meant to distribute the physical load from the headsink across a greater surface area to prevent the die from being cracked.
That's why older CPUs, lots of embedded and enterprise CPUs, and most GPUs have no IHS, right?

>>If you create a GPU bottleneck to hide the 1600's performance deficit, its performance deficit is hidden.
There's barely any appreciable performance deficit when you're not gaming at 1080p, which you do not game at with a 1080 Ti.

The entire point of the K skew is being locked, and or just broken on their board.

"Finally, a quick word on the charts. You'll notice a 'i5-8400 OC' entry in the graphs … but isn't this chip multiplier locked? Yes it is, but you still have the option to tweak the uncore clockspeed a bit. By default it's set to 2.8GHz, and I had no trouble running it at 4.0GHz. I also played around with CPU multipliers to see if I could force the CPU to always run at 4.0GHz, but at least on the Gigabyte board that didn't appear to work. Still, bumping up the uncore clock does help a bit, and that's what the 'OC' entries represent."

How many people are going to buy a $200 CPU and a $700 GPU? How many of those are going to play at 144hz vs 4k 60hz?

Because the people who care will buy Intel anyway and delid. The people who don't upgrade sooner. The reason Intel stopped using solder was because Sandy Bridge was too good.

>No I didnt. All you're doing is making baseless claims and autistically screeching about legacy software so ghetto is doesnt even have a website.

You can run the software yourself and see that it power cycles for moments and has V-Droop issues you retard. Blender will run it at 100% at a constant rate for the entire test run.

7700k is the best CPU at the moment. 4 cores are completely in line with what's currently made, best clocks, and 8 threads dominating anything currently out.
What's more is that 4c/8t CPUs aren't made anymore, you either get a 6c/6t CPU or an overpriced housefire 6c/12t which has too many cores and threads for its own good. Also if you're not a complete retard you can undervolt it and have good temps.

7700k the pinacle of CPU.

To be fair IBT/LinX and SPEC suite will do this too.

They said the TIM might be better than on the 7700k. Is this confirmed elsewhere?

Even owners are cucked now with TIM. Intel is never going back to solder, it's housefires throughout the whole product stack.

>CPU is still being loaded to 100% regardless
It doesn't matter. Different usage patterns cause significantly different amounts of heat output.

>referring to that particular benchmark as a game
they explicitally called it a gaming benchmark

>There was a video linked which you did not watch.
I have better things to do than to give some jewtube (((personality))) videos and listen to him aimlessly ramble for half an hour for a couple paragraphs worth of meaningful information.

>there's still heat distribution
insignificant

>lots of embedded and enterprise CPUs, and most GPUs have no IHS, right?
Because they're not assembled by retards but in factories with torque limited drivers. Also all the Xeons i've encountered have IHSes.

>autistic screeching intesifies

>an 8 core ryzen will be better at just about everything else you do on your computer?

Like what? What do I, as somebody whose next most taxing computer-related task is shitposting on Sup Forums, need an 8c16t CPU for? What performance benefits will it bring to my workflow?

You really need to seek help and stop shitposting.

Even just for browsing it will work better than an Intel CPU. It also uses less power and is "future proof" as much as I hate the term. As more and more applications get multithreaded you're only going to see increased benefits from having an 8 core cpu.
I also predict that games using vulkan (maybe even dx12) will eventually run better on ryzen than current coffee lake cpus.

>It doesn't matter. Different usage patterns cause significantly different amounts of heat output.
Yes, and with an even higher load of heat the interface with the lower thermal conductivity (TIM) will underperform by an even greater delta -- what the fuck is your point?

>they explicitally called it a gaming benchmark
Reference to "literally every gaming benchmark" != "this is a gaming benchmark" but ok

>I have better things to do than to give some jewtube (((personality))) videos and listen to him aimlessly ramble for half an hour for a couple paragraphs worth of meaningful information.
Like shitty attempts at trolling on Sup Forums?

>insignificant
How much are you going to keep pulling out of your ass? If heat distribution within the IHS is insignificant than how the fuck does that heat manage to make it across to the heatsink and all the way up a heatpipe?

>Because they're not assembled by retards but in factories with torque limited drivers. Also all the Xeons i've encountered have IHSes.
Xeon is far from strictly enterprise

>I also predict that games using vulkan (maybe even dx12) will eventually run better on ryzen than current coffee lake cpus.
Intel has 10% IPC and up to 20% clock speed advantage, plus much higher uncore clocks (IF limited to DRAM freq) -- not happening, maybe Zen+/Zen2

It also has 25% less cores.

>just wait
>your current gen ayymd cpu will be worth it a decade from now

>what the fuck is your point?
that was my point. you literally quoted me and repeated what i said.

>Reference to "literally every gaming benchmark" != "this is a gaming benchmark" but ok
read the thread, they explicitly called blender a gayming benchmark

>insignificant
i was referring to laterally

>Xeon is far from strictly enterprise
no shit i have a bunch of them at home

>just wait
>your current gen ayymd cpu will be worth it a decade from now

You meme but people seem to love their FX cpus years after getting them. And that was a much worse architecture on release.

Why do people buy defective CPU's from Intel? They make CPUs 20 degrees hotter to save 3 cents and people defend this? 2600k is the last good Intel CPU.

Buy AMD than faggot

>that was my point. you literally quoted me and repeated what i said.
Have fun with your autism, bye

1.2*1.1 = 1.32, put deficit from IF and cross-CCX latency into the equation and there's no hope for AMD beating CFL in games.

I will if their Zen2 turns out to be better. I was going to wait till next year regardless considering the messy coffee lake launch.

Zen2 is Q4 2018/Q1 2019 on 7nm with 12C/24T -- early next year (probably under 6mo) is Zen+ on 12nm with 8C/16T, seems like just a shrink but hopefully it'll at least hit 4.5GHz and a few % IPC improvement would be nice

>just wait
>amd is always on time
>xen never experienced delays

Right, I meant Zen+.
Frankly I'm waiting for the perfect storm of 2nd gen VR headsets, cheaper 1440p 144hz+ HDR monitors and the best cpu+gpu to run them when they pop. Don't give a shit about brands.

Coffee Lake would be objectively better than Ryzen if it wasn't for this housefire bullshit. Intel are literally shooting themselves in the foot by not caring about how bad this makes them look.

1. Because they aren't. OCed my 7700k to 5.0 GHz and it only ever passes 80C on a hot day.

2. Delidding is a meme invented by AMD ShareRed.

3. Biggest improvement Intel could make is by adding the "fake dies" of Threadripper to increase the surface area of it.

>beeing this ignorant
Soldering to Silicon isn't something doable at home.
They use the next best, liquid metal paste

1. Either you won silicon lottery or you're lying out your ass.
2. As opposed to all the evidence posted in this thread, right shilly shill shillington?
3. You're literally retarded. Kill yourself.

>1% of the value
>it doesn't make sense
you just contradicted yourself

please never run a company

1. I'm not

2. ((((((Evidence)))))))

3. Clearly you don't even have a rudimentary understanding of heat transfer.

>Delidding kits are being sold
>people delid their CPUs on video
>on forums
>lots of proof of delidded benchmarks being better than stock

>Delidding is a meme invented by AMD ShareRed

How delusional can you be? Kill yourself, retard.

how do DEAD dies, that don't consume any power at all increase the hot area for better heat transfer?

Heatspreaders are a MEME in itself and only serve the retards killing their CPU running bare DIE

>MY PAJEET PROGRAMMED GAYMESS

>it's a "dumb teenager thinks he know better than a multi-billion dollar company in their area of expertise" episode

Dude, come on, using TIM is just a way to cut corners and increase profits. Don't even pretend otherwise. Why have CPUs before been soldered? Why does everyone else still use solder? Only Intel switched to TIM and it's not like it has improved temps, in fact it has worsened them.
>muh lifespan
Why are all the soldered CPUs still alive and kicking then? I'm pretty sure paste loses its effectiveness much sooner than solder too!

Or, and this is the entirely more likely scenario, people are just fucking terrible at properly securing their CPU coolers since the only possible way these double digit changes are possible is if Intel is using something like polyurethane (0.02W/mK) between the die and the IHS, either that or the liquid metal is literally liquid diamond (1000W/mK).

Simple 1-D Heat transfer balance tells us that it takes two powers of ten to change the surface temperature tens of degrees Celsius. Where as a poorly secured CPU cooler can generate tens of degrees temperature changes by being 1-10 degrees off level.

No they aren't. Heat spreaders are the only real way to decease the surface temperature. Your choice of thermal paste, pad, whatever, especially when this layer is maybe 1mm thick, makes next to no difference at all.

You're fucking retarded if you think intel passes up the opportunity to run their CPUs way cooler for no reason, idiot.

What matters is how close the IHS is to the die, with factory TIM the space is larger, which gives much worse heat transfer.

Dude you can lower temps just by scraping the adhesive off the IHS. Air is bad for heat transfer, any air in between the TIM and the IHS means housefire. This is basic thermodynamics. Intel is selling you defective CPUs and you're defending it.

They do, the opportunity means less manufacturing costs.
Otherwise how do you explain these housefire temps at stock and that temps drop as high as 25ºC after delidding?

Intel cares about the bottom line, every company does. If they can cut corners somewhere, they will do it. Especially someone as massive as Intel that has like 80% desktop marketshare, since the only alternatives were (up until Ryzen) otright inferior AMD alternatives they could do this move to TIM and get away with it because everyone focused on performance would buy their CPUs anyway.

Use your brain a little, companies are not your friends. They are for profit organisations trying to make as much money as possible with as little investment and manufacture cost as possible. Perhaps switching from solder to TIM cuts production time and cuts soldering steps from the manufacture chain, which might save them millions and millions of dollars by the end of the year.

It's a fact that Intel CPUs have shitty default cooling. I had to buy an aftermarket cooler and reapply thermal paste on my non-K i5 4690 because it was running past 80C under load with spikes of 100C. On a fucking locked chip so no overclock.

Gotta save those 2 cents.

I find it difficult to believe someone could be this delusional.
>delidding Intel results in double digits lower temps
>delidding AMD results in at most 4 degrees
>"It must be the reviewer's fault!"

- Save money on thermal paste
- Save money on not having to cover warranty on returned goods, since people willingly void their warranties to get a normal functioning product
- Still have their delidded products compared to the competition without being clearly labelled as such in media, effectively giving them free marketing

Because stupid goyim think that engineers at Intel work for free.

Well unless that distance is literally one decimeter (1/10 a meter), it won't effect temperatures that much.

>skip this housefire and buy a middle of the pack CPU that can't even be overclocked
have fun buying a new cpu every 12 months

You are the retard the thinks the tiny difference between using liquid metal vs. normal shit would make 20^o Celsius difference.

You guys are literally retarded, seriously. Think about what you are fucking saying. They won't throw away such a huge competitive advantage and potential performance booster which would translate to way higher prices for no fucking reason, you fucking inbred idiots. Seriously, go back to fucking reddit. You're too fucking retarded to be taken serious.

are you speaking out of own experience or are you an
>aktually
guy never doing shit on his machine?