This thing has me confused. I'm usually wary of "neo" type projects, but it's objectively true that vim's codebase is ancient in a bad way. Neovim isn't a shitty python rewrite or similar laughable meme, it's still in C, and it doesn't try to bloat up a bunch of shitty features - it just seems to seek reasonable improvements, like proper async plugin support. And sure, it improves python and ruby plugin support, but the main focus is on Lua plugins. And vimscript is still fully supported if you really love it so much. It's not made or promoted by SJWs either as far as I'm aware of (though I haven't really looked deep into that).
And yet, modern development has conditioned me to expect shit, bloat, botnet and memes everywhere. Even among editors - see spacemacs for a good example of over-the-top bloat. So I can't help but be suspicious.
What do you guys think? Is this the one good "modernising classic software" project that does what it's supposed to without butchering the original? Or did I just not look hard enough?
Vim was always a shitty hack and neovim just continues the tradition of shitty hacks on top of hacks on top of hacks
It has a terminal inside a text editor inside a terminal? Well, no need for tiling WMs, vim is my WM now.
>inb4 you must be an emacs user Why does a lisp machine/"text editor" need image support, xwidget support, fucking sound support, support for OSes that are no longer used, a gorillion locales, etc...
Use sam or acme.
Elijah Russell
>shitty hacks on top of shitty hacks I thought the entire point of neovim was to fix that and basically rewrite vim without all the hacks?
If you have any evidence to back up your claim I'd be very happy to see it, because while I have read blog posts from neovim developers complaining about vim's code and hacks I've never actually looked at neovim source code
Oliver Turner
>It has a terminal inside a text editor inside a terminal? so does vim in a few releases
Daniel Sanchez
Neovim doesn't fix lack of sane GUI toolkit, obsolete console model, terrible clipboard solution and lacking plumb alternative for cross-window actions.
Carson Cook
It supposedly removed a lot of the bloat in the vim codebase. Bloat that can't be removed because the dictator still runs Vim on his makeshift PC from the 90s
Adam Hughes
It's pretty much Vim Canary, since Bram will just grab all its features and implement them in regular Vim after rejecting all their pull requests for not sucking his cock.
Jackson Long
30% less source code. It's a lot of fucking shit gone.
Isaiah Nguyen
among a lot of other stuff
Andrew Hall
>Use sam or acme. Lol enjoy your bloated piece of shit.
Use ed, it's literally everything you'll ever need.
Kayden Wood
>Why does a lisp machine need things Because emacs lisp is a programming language. If you can program image viewers in it, you can view images. If you can program sound support and shit in it, you can hear sounds. Mind = blown
Aaron Young
I agree.
Ken Thompson uses sam though.
Jacob Jackson
This. Brainlets seem to forget that that kind of shit is inevitable when you have a tool that lets you, you know, fucking program it.
Alexander Kelly
I don't even like emacs. I prefer to have separate tools for things. But even then, I still understand what the idea of emacs is.
Chase Lee
>Ken Thompson uses sam though. Not but that is mostly a reason not to use it.
Colton Reed
>GUI Why would you not use it in a terminal? >obsolete console model What do you mean >terrible clipboard Do you mean the register system or the way it integrates with X clipboards in a weird way?
Zachary Jenkins
>Why would you not use it in a terminal limited to line-based text with fixed size that behaves differently per terminal and usually have inferior unicode support, no images or out of grid positioning unless that w3m monstrosity en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX_terminal_interface addressed cursor, multiple layers of configurations that should be handled by devices not being in used in decades but would still be incompatible there is nothing better than when you try to ssh somewhere and get message that your terminfo isn't supported or when things appear differently per terminal and w/ or w/o tmux ncurses and similar try to be gui but suck at it, but "it's terminal so it's better" shills defend it
Christian Allen
At this point it doesn't even matter, all the async shit neovim pushed so hard got added to vim as well, so it brings almost nothing.
I guess a saner plugin system is what it brings compared to vim, but these days all plugins support both vim and neovim, so there's no point.
I started using neovim on my workstation because I thought the RLS/racer integration would be better, but it's the same shit as in vim, so whatever, it doesn't matter at all.
Landon Sanchez
What are you talking about, I can literally play videos in my terminal using sixels and look at SVGs through ReGIS.
Alexander Powell
why is there so much hate for vim in Sup Forums? are you being contrarian or just retarded?
Evan Sanders
I like (n)vi(m), and have for years
Justin Scott
What are you talking about? Sup Forums loves both vim and emacs
Austin Campbell
This. I prefer vim, but there is nothing wrong with emacs.
Jaxson Barnes
what do you guys think, if I wanted to learn emacs should I turn on evil mode right off the bat and learn with that or do their tutorial and use their stock keybinds while learning?
Juan Rodriguez
if you already know the vim keys, you might as well learn the emacs ones, and get the full power of editing with emacs commands while in insert mode in evil.
Just whatever you do, make sure you bind your caps lock key to ctrl. Emacs wasn't designed for having the left ctrl key in the retarded position it is now, and it seems a lot of people misinterpret that fact as emacs having "shit keybindings".
Colton Green
VSCode is better in every single way so just use that desu senpai.
Anthony Wood
the rustcucks love it so it must be shit guilt by association
Gavin Green
t. electronlet
Justin Reyes
it just werks
Leo Jackson
nu-males needed a nu-vim for their nu-C
Christopher Bell
VSCode vim plugin when?
Kayden Baker
there already is one and another one to use neovim for ex commands
It's really hard to change editors though after years, especially to one that's so different. When I look at things like this I do think to myself "this could be a better choice" but my lazyness prevents me.
Xavier Reyes
YES
Caleb Stewart
Don't generalize.
Kayden Scott
Yeah, I am thinking of using acme too.
Michael Evans
What is sam about by the way? If vim is all about modal editing with single-letter grammatical (verb-subject and the like) commands, the point of emacs is being a lisp machine and using modifier keys to full effectiveness, and acme's thing is using the mouse properly with chording and shit to actually give the above to a run for their money, what is sam's shtick?
Ayden Ramirez
sam is a better ed with regexp. Acme is just a sam with more stuff.
Elijah Adams
So you're saying sam is a fucking line editor? Or by "a better ed" do you also mean it includes buffers and shit
>acme is sam with more stuff So you're saying there's no real reason to use sam over acme (except potential concerns of "bloat", but I'm not autistic enough to start calling acme bloated)
Isaiah Baker
>So you're saying there's no real reason to use sam over acme Yes, it has the same editing language.
See this video if you want to learn about acme The regex stuff displayed in that is also in sam.
Christian Butler
If there was no sensible use-case for nvim's :term, there would have been no sensible use-case for vim's :!
Hudson Flores
>Why does a lisp machine/"text editor" need image support, xwidget support, fucking sound support, support for OSes that are no longer used, a gorillion locales, etc... That's like asking why it's possible to start a web browser from a shell. Emacs isn't a text editor, it's a shell interface.
>Use sam or acme. Shit doesn't even support spaces in filenames
Cameron Ramirez
Doesn't vim just basically pipe ! commands to your shell? Because there's nothing wrong with that.
Does neovim do the same?
Carson Robinson
why would you ever need anything other than emacs?
Jace Wright
Yes, but you can only use its output with other commands and it disappears whenever you do something else.
:term opens a full shell in a buffer. You can then navigate it just like any other text in vim. This includes using vim macros to control the shell.
Elijah Phillips
Oh, nice. I see literally nothing wrong with that design-wise. As long as the code to handle this isn't spaghetti.
Nearly 50 posts later and nobody has brought up any real arguments against neovim. Looks like I'll be installing it to check it out, along with acme
Ryder Cook
ok, I am too much of a pussy to try vim, can I be part of the club if I try gvim?
Henry Baker
neovim is godly. i use it over vim because it doesn't have that annoying delay when hitting o or O
Hunter Sanchez
>could have learned from the success of emacs and gone with a lisp >instead went with fucking lua trash
Easton Bell
>lisp tcl is objectively the best choice for scripting text editors
Adam Stewart
Point taken >could have gone with a lisp or tcl >instead went with fucking lua trash
