Discuss this shit

This thing has me confused. I'm usually wary of "neo" type projects, but it's objectively true that vim's codebase is ancient in a bad way. Neovim isn't a shitty python rewrite or similar laughable meme, it's still in C, and it doesn't try to bloat up a bunch of shitty features - it just seems to seek reasonable improvements, like proper async plugin support.
And sure, it improves python and ruby plugin support, but the main focus is on Lua plugins. And vimscript is still fully supported if you really love it so much.
It's not made or promoted by SJWs either as far as I'm aware of (though I haven't really looked deep into that).

And yet, modern development has conditioned me to expect shit, bloat, botnet and memes everywhere. Even among editors - see spacemacs for a good example of over-the-top bloat. So I can't help but be suspicious.

What do you guys think? Is this the one good "modernising classic software" project that does what it's supposed to without butchering the original? Or did I just not look hard enough?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX_terminal_interface
youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M
sam.cat-v.org/
acme.cat-v.org/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Vim was always a shitty hack and neovim just continues the tradition of shitty hacks on top of hacks on top of hacks

It has a terminal inside a text editor inside a terminal? Well, no need for tiling WMs, vim is my WM now.

>inb4 you must be an emacs user
Why does a lisp machine/"text editor" need image support, xwidget support, fucking sound support, support for OSes that are no longer used, a gorillion locales, etc...

Use sam or acme.

>shitty hacks on top of shitty hacks
I thought the entire point of neovim was to fix that and basically rewrite vim without all the hacks?

If you have any evidence to back up your claim I'd be very happy to see it, because while I have read blog posts from neovim developers complaining about vim's code and hacks I've never actually looked at neovim source code

>It has a terminal inside a text editor inside a terminal?
so does vim in a few releases

Neovim doesn't fix lack of sane GUI toolkit, obsolete console model, terrible clipboard solution and lacking plumb alternative for cross-window actions.

It supposedly removed a lot of the bloat in the vim codebase. Bloat that can't be removed because the dictator still runs Vim on his makeshift PC from the 90s

It's pretty much Vim Canary, since Bram will just grab all its features and implement them in regular Vim after rejecting all their pull requests for not sucking his cock.

30% less source code. It's a lot of fucking shit gone.

among a lot of other stuff

>Use sam or acme.
Lol enjoy your bloated piece of shit.

Use ed, it's literally everything you'll ever need.

>Why does a lisp machine need things
Because emacs lisp is a programming language. If you can program image viewers in it, you can view images. If you can program sound support and shit in it, you can hear sounds.
Mind = blown

I agree.

Ken Thompson uses sam though.

This. Brainlets seem to forget that that kind of shit is inevitable when you have a tool that lets you, you know, fucking program it.

I don't even like emacs. I prefer to have separate tools for things. But even then, I still understand what the idea of emacs is.

>Ken Thompson uses sam though.
Not but that is mostly a reason not to use it.

>GUI
Why would you not use it in a terminal?
>obsolete console model
What do you mean
>terrible clipboard
Do you mean the register system or the way it integrates with X clipboards in a weird way?

>Why would you not use it in a terminal
limited to line-based text with fixed size that behaves differently per terminal and usually have inferior unicode support, no images or out of grid positioning unless that w3m monstrosity
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX_terminal_interface
addressed cursor, multiple layers of configurations that should be handled by devices not being in used in decades but would still be incompatible
there is nothing better than when you try to ssh somewhere and get message that your terminfo isn't supported or when things appear differently per terminal and w/ or w/o tmux
ncurses and similar try to be gui but suck at it, but "it's terminal so it's better" shills defend it

At this point it doesn't even matter, all the async shit neovim pushed so hard got added to vim as well, so it brings almost nothing.

I guess a saner plugin system is what it brings compared to vim, but these days all plugins support both vim and neovim, so there's no point.

I started using neovim on my workstation because I thought the RLS/racer integration would be better, but it's the same shit as in vim, so whatever, it doesn't matter at all.

What are you talking about, I can literally play videos in my terminal using sixels and look at SVGs through ReGIS.

why is there so much hate for vim in Sup Forums? are you being contrarian or just retarded?

I like (n)vi(m), and have for years

What are you talking about? Sup Forums loves both vim and emacs

This. I prefer vim, but there is nothing wrong with emacs.

what do you guys think, if I wanted to learn emacs should I turn on evil mode right off the bat and learn with that or do their tutorial and use their stock keybinds while learning?

if you already know the vim keys, you might as well learn the emacs ones, and get the full power of editing with emacs commands while in insert mode in evil.

Just whatever you do, make sure you bind your caps lock key to ctrl. Emacs wasn't designed for having the left ctrl key in the retarded position it is now, and it seems a lot of people misinterpret that fact as emacs having "shit keybindings".

VSCode is better in every single way so just use that desu senpai.

the rustcucks love it
so it must be shit
guilt by association

t. electronlet

it just werks

nu-males needed a nu-vim for their nu-C

VSCode vim plugin when?

there already is one and another one to use neovim for ex commands

I can't wait until Sublime is open sourced.

Sometimes I really consider it.
youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M

It's really hard to change editors though after years, especially to one that's so different. When I look at things like this I do think to myself "this could be a better choice" but my lazyness prevents me.

YES

Don't generalize.

Yeah, I am thinking of using acme too.

What is sam about by the way? If vim is all about modal editing with single-letter grammatical (verb-subject and the like) commands, the point of emacs is being a lisp machine and using modifier keys to full effectiveness, and acme's thing is using the mouse properly with chording and shit to actually give the above to a run for their money, what is sam's shtick?

sam is a better ed with regexp.
Acme is just a sam with more stuff.

So you're saying sam is a fucking line editor? Or by "a better ed" do you also mean it includes buffers and shit

>acme is sam with more stuff
So you're saying there's no real reason to use sam over acme (except potential concerns of "bloat", but I'm not autistic enough to start calling acme bloated)

>So you're saying there's no real reason to use sam over acme
Yes, it has the same editing language.

want to know more? read:
sam.cat-v.org/
acme.cat-v.org/

See this video if you want to learn about acme The regex stuff displayed in that is also in sam.

If there was no sensible use-case for nvim's :term, there would have been no sensible use-case for vim's :!

>Why does a lisp machine/"text editor" need image support, xwidget support, fucking sound support, support for OSes that are no longer used, a gorillion locales, etc...
That's like asking why it's possible to start a web browser from a shell. Emacs isn't a text editor, it's a shell interface.

>Use sam or acme.
Shit doesn't even support spaces in filenames

Doesn't vim just basically pipe ! commands to your shell? Because there's nothing wrong with that.

Does neovim do the same?

why would you ever need anything other than emacs?

Yes, but you can only use its output with other commands and it disappears whenever you do something else.

:term opens a full shell in a buffer. You can then navigate it just like any other text in vim. This includes using vim macros to control the shell.

Oh, nice. I see literally nothing wrong with that design-wise. As long as the code to handle this isn't spaghetti.

Nearly 50 posts later and nobody has brought up any real arguments against neovim. Looks like I'll be installing it to check it out, along with acme

ok, I am too much of a pussy to try vim, can I be part of the club if I try gvim?

neovim is godly. i use it over vim because it doesn't have that annoying delay when hitting o or O

>could have learned from the success of emacs and gone with a lisp
>instead went with fucking lua
trash

>lisp
tcl is objectively the best choice for scripting text editors

Point taken
>could have gone with a lisp or tcl
>instead went with fucking lua
trash

I thought this was a feature?

There is literally nothing wrong with lua

there's python too

Python is also shit.

too fat for integrated scripting