Why does Sup Forums hate Python?

Why does Sup Forums hate Python?

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hurr whitespace is haaaaaaaaaard i dont want to indent my codeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
lmao gil everything i do is cpu bound and needs to be parallelized

>def
>__under_score__
>slow & bloated

Sup Forums is filled with Javascript programmers that dress like little girls. (in other words, filled with normal JS programmers).

more developers are more expensive than more computers. Python is popular because it solves a business problem as well as technical ones.

if(youWantToWriteCodeLikeThis) {console.log("Python is shit");}
else {console.log("You're shit");}

literally normie programming language

I hope that's a joke

Reminder that Sup Forums is not one person nor a hivemind, not everyone on this Hellhole shares the same mentality

>more developers are more expensive than more computers
Python isn't COBOL, it's not used as a production language. It's popular because engineers and scientists can't be assed to learn good programming and just want to do hack shit scripting.

Basically this.

Because they hate anything that doesn't represent them as being special or unique. Most people here are sperg lords who mock anything that doesn't cater to their unwarranted self importance.

cause its good

cause it's cute

I dislike it when I encounter a non-trivial application written in Python it's almost invariably incredibly fragile and/or plagued with dependency issues. And whenever there are dependency issues they always seem to be harder to fix than they should be because sometimes Python packages are only OS packages, sometimes they're only pip packages, sometimes they're both, etc.

Python is a great scripting language but people try to do things with it that it just isn't suitable for.

Alright, maybe not filled, but there are quite a few.

if I want to be a freelance web developer with clients that don't care about what language, platform I use, what could be a good framework, language to use? My clients only want a beautiful website that JUSTWERKS.

>Python is a great scripting language but people try to do things with it that it just isn't suitable for.

another generic statement with nothing to back it up

I don't hate it. I do wish a better language filled the niche it does. Some language had to be the popular, simple, imperative language running on a virtual machine. I wish that language had static typing. I wish it defaulted to immutability.

Nice trips. Sup Forums dislikes anything that's useful, popular or would get them employed.

Can you read? I literally explained why I felt that way in the other half of the post. GNU Radio, Matrix Synapse and Let's Encrypt Certbot are the most recent examples I've run into. It also tends to happen to Python programs I write more than C++ programs I write (for example).

Even without examples, it should stand to reason that this would be the case. Python is fully dynamically typed. More typical application development languages (C++, C#, Java, etc.) are not. There are fewer automatic checks being run on Python code. Therefore Python is going to require larger test suites to verify to the same degree. So now we're in a position where we have to assume that Python developers are much more thorough than other developers or assume that Python applications will be less stable. I'm going with the latter.

You don't have a job. I know this because you think getting shit done the most autismic way possible is better than just getting shit done. Choose the best language for the job. Sometimes, most times, development speed is way more important than runtime performance.

I know you're in the industry but I think your perspective is just slightly akilter... Python is glue, compadre. Nothing more, and certainly nothing less. It is used to orchestrate the interactions of software written in feasibly fast languages. Because Python is executed for such a small portion of the the server-time at a company such as Google, it's incredible slowness isn't a detriment.

As someone who was looking into Data Sciences down the road I've really seen Python as the king of that, is there a secondary language I should focus on?

lost indentation, can't run

>python is the king of data science

R is. Python is number 2.

fpbp

Oh that's good to know, I was going to focus on Python and Ruby but I'll look up R as well.

because many on Sup Forums spent their days learning shit languages like C++ and they are mad that python is taking up more and more space in the industry.

Look on kaggle. Everyone is using python. Few people use R.

>slow
>Turing incomplete
>Normalfag language
Should sum it up for you.

I guess I haven't really started anywhere so I'm just trying to get a basis to work towards so more information is better than less, do you know if there's any significant reason why Python is used over R or is that just how most people have learned?

I had the misfortune of having to write Python at work.

>Python
>It just works
Pick one

>pip is garbage, virtualenv is shit, pylint/flake8 are fucking shit
>requirements.txt, setup.py, pyproject.toml: literally "ONE OBVIOUS WAY OF DOING THINGS"
>Anaconda, Jupyter coming in just to mess things up further
>Random dependencies always require some dumb-ass system dependency to be installed: I don't expect pip install to ever work on the first run
>Right version of stdlib docs takes forever to find on Google
>After you find them it's impossible to find the right page for the API you're looking for
>numpy and scipy don't play well with regular python
>Type hinting is useless, the type checkers out there aren't production ready
>One word: FORCED INDENTATION OF CODE
>__everything__ __has__ __these__ __fucking__ __things__ __everywhere__
>stdlib is where everything goes to die: (unittest, tk: enjoy your dead batteries included)
>Python 2 vs Python 3: I can't believe I still encounter this in 2017
>It's so slow we need PyPy that BREAKS ALL THE TIME
>[for a in for b in c for d in e for f in g]
>Decorator and contextlib hell
>Enjoy deploying to production (at least we have containers now)
>Bloats the fuck out of my containers
>Exception system that is stuck in the 90s
>PEP8 looks ugly

Because it's too hard to do functional programming with python

>Turing incomplete
Come on now. That's just bullshit. You have to TRY to make something Turing incomplete.

matlab no1 obviously

Syntactically meaningful whitespace is cancer. The most troublesome bugs I've ever encountered in programming came from subtle indent errors.

I don't care if you indent your code exactly as you would writing Python. The fact that some whitespace on the left half of your screen has meaning that whitespace on the right half of your screen doesn't is batshit insane.

A few reasons. Python will often have better performance than R. In addition you can deploy applications with python. So you can do almost an entire data science application using python. Plus, I think many people from more conventional computing backgrounds are moving into data science, and they are simply more familiar with python than R.

That being said, R has some great tools for statistical analysis that python kind of lacks. That difference is vanishing though.

What's the easiest way to learn python for a retard?

MATLAB is number 3 after Python.

Why is Python 2 backward compatible with Python 1, but Python 3 is not backward compatible with Python 2?

Thank you! I have a few python books currently so I'll start there but keep my eyes up for anything else up and coming.

Python is a better general purpose computing language. You would be insane if you tried to use R as that. Most people who encounter R do so because they learned general computing first and encountered R second.

R has its well-earned place, though. It started life not as a general language but as a data-analysis specialized environment. If you're doing statistics or exploratory data analysis, R is just hands-down the easiest language to do it in. The data structures, the built-in convenience functions, the abstract behavior of the language, everything is built around making exploratory data analysis as easy as it can be.

If its slow that means you are programming it wrong :^)

yes, well that is because of the price desu

What? Nobody really dislikes it. It's just slow (which is fine for what it is) and the versioning issues are sort of annoying. I'd much rather write scripts in Python than bash tbqh

>Python will often have better performance than R
that is very debatable.
you should see enormous gainz by recompiling R

C++ is anyway just a diversion from the fact that c can't do proper closures

Can't run python 2 in a python 3 vm.

You must be new

I recommend using both python and R.

>most autismic way possible
I don't code in Haskell.

Problem in data projects is that you'll have a scientist make some neat algorithm in Python or R and it can't be "productionized". It was fine when it was just a glorified bash.

So make it in a production language then.

It isn't that hard usually.

Wrong, the new trap programming language is Haskell.
It used to be Ruby.

Whitespace
Underscores
Pip
PYTHON 3 PYTHON 2 COEXISTING
The community

Its just a terrible package. The only thing its got going for it is dumb academics who can't code but throw their research into python code

You don't program. I know this because this is where you use ruby and not python

That's because they're all retarded academics or stats people who don't actually know how to code. Use R if you can handle yourself

interpreted, no strong types + dynamic typing = disaster, no guarantees at all

This desu

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>most autismic way possible
>I don't code in Haskell.
>never tried Haskell
>thinks Haskell is a meme language
youre in a good track Sup Forumstard

Python 3 feels like a fourth level language compared to C++

You're obviously a Windows programmer so your opinion is irrelevant.

Anybody who's a proponent of Python has never had to work on a large codebase with more than one other person.
What a fucking nightmare.

Do something that does beyond scripting and it kills you.

The worst
>pythonic

>>__everything__ __has__ __these__ __fucking__ __things__ __everywhere_

Non-pythoner here. Can anyone explain what the hell this is about? I've used other people's Python and all these underscores look like shit

interested too.
asking for a friend.

Because Python is a non-shit language, the interpreter has a built-in function (triggered by the underscores) to rewrite attribute names to avoid naming conflicts in subclasses.

One of the many reasons why Python is the best language.

that seems like a nice feature to have, user
if you have to fix a problem you shouldn't have in the first place

You can simulate conways game of life with python 3, conways game of life is turing complete, you can run python 2 in conways game of life => you can run python 2 in python 3

Check Mate

All soft written in Python.

>Non-shit language
>Relying on runes for defining classes and OOP hacks
Literally 0/10

Odoo is an example of Python used in production. It's not the only one. Btw, the language slowness is nothing compared to other bottlenecks such as DB access

>complaning about dependency issues in Python
I see you havent had the fun of working with NPM yet

>FORCED INDENTATION OF CODE
like every other fucking language?
I dont know what kind of wannabe wild west coder you are, but in sane production environments there are pre-commit hooks that will check whether your code fulfills the style guides

Sup Forums don't like python because when they copy&paste from stackoverflow it losts the identation.

Python is a good language if you want to prototype shit fast and where performance doesn't matter.

I work in bioinformatics and if I want to test an algorithm, I'll first code it in python and get my stuff working. If I have to work with a shitload of data or do next-generation sequencing, C++ is way better because it literally saves hours. A good programmer knows that there is the right tool for the right job. And even if I needed to translate my python program into a low-level language, I'll just send it to the CS department to adapt it to have a neat base to work on.

I have a turbautist in my lab (from CS, obviously) that INSISTS on coding snippets in fucking C++ for our biologists colleagues and it's a fucking mess to debug and to explain to students because of how less intelligible the language is.

It allows people to be productive, while Sup Forums does its nth fizzbuzz implementation in Rust.

New to programming? Automate the Boring Stuff.

Sup Forums doesn't know shit about anything

Is Python worth investing your time into? Should i better git gud at another language like C++/# or Java?

Udemy just released their list of most popular topics in the country that people are learning. I don't see C, Rust, or Haskel in this list at all. Could Sup Forums be wrong?

>production code
>pulling in pip

I really wish projects had a better upfront understanding of 'technical debt'. hurr durr we must be 'DRY' user. Is not a good reason to just start creating a dependency mess when you use a small fraction of the library. People who cling to DRY tend to write unmaintainable code imo.

I'll get off my soap box to say that poorly implemented python is not a good criticism of the language. People who write shit are going to write shit regardless.

Similar to operator overloading.

>it's not used as a production language
have you heard of this site called Youtube? the most visited page in the world?

god this is such a retarded opinion and coming from a tripfag?!

I'm glad that I don't come here more often

In the end, the first thing you "learn" when you program is to solve problems, the language you use does NOT matter.

Python is a good starter language, in my opinion, because it looks like a lot like a pseudo-code comparing to other languages. Its advantage is that you will solve a lot more "practicals" problems than dealing with syntax stuff. Its con is that you feel less "in control" of your code, which is an issue for advanced users.

Also, don't take everything I say for the absolute truth. Lurk on the net to make your own opinion. And read a lot. Hope that helps.

"In your country"

Enlighten us, user

If you actually want to learn programming, like for a career, and have a lot of time, start the old school way with C/C++. If you start with something higher level, be it Java, C# or even Python, you will never learn the fundamentals and they are actually important if you want to be a skilled professional.

If you just wanna program for fun, pick whatever you like the most, Python is fine.

>he hasn't filtered that faggot yet

do python moron when it doesn't feel right anymore for what you're doing you need to switch

it has been answered elsewhere to a much better extend
youtube.com/watch?v=3MvKLOecT1I

That's my point. It's really easy. Kotlin datascience is actually kind of based.

I went to fact check it and it looks like they switched a lot of their stuff over to Java when they were bought out by Google. They could still totally be using python and I wouldn't be surprised. They can throw more servers when bottlenecks occur.

Oh believe me, I have and NPM is far far worse.

Okay faggots I'm gonna give you the redpill now

Java is a cancer - it will kill the likes of Scala, Kotlin, and any other language based on the JVM

Haskell will never become widely used as it's too bothersome with type systems. Nobody needs to be constrained that hard, and learning it takes too long for any team to quickly pick up for a production project

Python breaks constantly in runtime, the errors are far too widespread, the tooling is shit-tier, it's only good for SMALL scripts, and nothing that requires more than one thread of execution. I have no idea how entire websites are built on this pile of shit. It's fantastic for scripts, beautiful language, but just not good for anything more than 1k loc.

Ruby is python-tier

Javascript was a mistake

Rust is fast and has the potential to overtake C++ in the future, but nobody likes Rust manchild coders and nobody ever will.

PHP and Perl are for the unemployed or soon-to-be unemployed

C will live forever

C#, Obj-C, and Swift and every other language built by Microsoft or Apple will always be niche languages used for private markets. The best of them is C# which will suckle on the teet of vidya gaymers with the Unity system.

Matlab will die a lonely death as both R and Python are superior choices

Golang is a meme attempt at trying to kill javascript/nodejs

Erlang/Elixir is the master race

>Imperative
>Spaces instead of brackets

>Slow

>C will live forever
warp.povusers.org/grrr/HateC.html

I've never understood the hate for python on this board. If you need to do some light string manipulation, parse a few files and/or run some other programs it's great. Even if it's not the fastest, half the time your programming language doesn't matter because your blocking on disk IO or the network. You can get something that functions correctly working quickly.

For prototyping and glue programs python is great.

The only thing that really sucks is that there's no true mutlithreading. The multiprocessing module can do some weird things, and then I just miss having pthreads.

I don't, it's really nice.