Since Intel and AMD proved that they are incompetent corporations filed with brainlet engineers...

Since Intel and AMD proved that they are incompetent corporations filed with brainlet engineers, will the open-source hardware market finally start becoming popular? Are you interested in it? What are you thought?

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bump because fuck /r/amd wojak underage shitters

Still waiting for that RiscV SBC with similar specs to the RasPi

>open source hardware

Heh, what goods security when everyone can break through!

I am interested a lot, I wish that I could contribute or develop my own hardware

I fear you'll be waiting a while

>closed source hardware
>intel ME
>closed source softwares
>windows registration
>drm
>jailbreak

Heh, what goods security when everyone can break through!

same

>What are you thought?
It is impractical for shit like modern CPUs, where the development and initial manufacturing costs are fucking obscene, and necessitate a higher degree of centralisation.

But then again, a laptop with the same sort of specs as my computer from ~2003 is still going to be useful for some general computing, so if a decent amount of previously-closed source tech gets given over to the public domain, and the rest filled in, I could get behind it.

But another problem is the relative shortage of expertise. The pool of people who could reasonably contribute would probably be a tiny fraction of the number of equivalent software people.

Here's what I imagine for the future

>3D printing at home becomes more mainstream
>We get to a point where plastic+metal can be used in a consumer 3D printer to print circuit boards
>We quickly get to a point where full PC's can be printed from home... but it's very primitive and we go back to the days where a computer is the size of a refrigerator since 3D printers will lack the precision to make a small microboard
>Slowly gets better and better until we achieve the ability to print fast computers from home using open-source schematics.

Isn't ARM opensource? What's stopping you from gutting a thinkpad and putting in a Rberry Pi or OrangePi or whatever the next cheapest alternative that can open a browser is? You'll be getting some sick battery life aswell.

Open source HARDWARE

What the fuck

The future is now, nigger

theverge.com/2017/10/18/16495010/microsoft-windows-10-arm-laptops-battery-life

Honestly, that's a future I could get behind. Giving power to the general population to create computers will surely bring some interesting designs to the table. We cyberpunk now!

The RPi uses a Broadcom ARM processor whose documentation is not available to the public, thus, is not open source.

>I don't know what a HDL is but I'm gonna post anyway
Underage pls.

it's somewhat common for pcb (can be manufactured quite cheaply, even at home if single layer), but basically impossible for IC, ASIC and so: there are some open hardware cpu for example, but you can't really get them manufactured so they are more for educational purposes or fpga implementation.

Yes OP, pretty sure hardware designed by people in their free time will be 100% safe from security vulns. Just like open source software is invulnerable!

we can avoid BS as intel ME at least. Also not every "open" project in made with free spare time form the developer.
Especially open hardware project are developed and commercialize as any other piece of hardware. The difference is that you also get schematics and so.

It won't catch on. Open source/free software would allow competitors to vulture the product and capitalize on name brand recognition to bury the product. Unless they can sustain themselves on the enthusiast market, they will not survive the initial release as enterprise and normie consumers don't care, don't understand, or hate risk and the new.

With the growing monopolization and swallowing of startups by megacorps, I don't see a challenger to Nvidia, AMD, and Intel rising anytime soon. We can't even get a new console to break Nintendo, Xbox, and Sony.

I think it's possible.
Arduino is open hardware and for this reason there are shitton of cheap imitations but it still sell very well. Same goes for the raspberry pi PCB if I'm not wrong.

>brainlet engineers

Why are we pretending to be part of the 0.001% of humans that can even comprehend these bugs

Would you rather everyone be able to break through, or only people who are actually going to break through?
Tip: There's no difference.

I mean we're going to find out soon enough.
Patents for amd64 expire in 2023, so nobody will need licenses to produce amd64-compatible chips.

Fuck off Dave.
People sucking your dick is one thing doing something of value is another.

>brainlet engineers
>comprehend these bugs

user, you need an entomologist for that, not an engineer!

nano-di.com/blog/topic/dragonfly-2020

Source?

>brainlet engineers

engineers are competent, but they serve under business planning and marketing turdfuckers focused on making sales targets and profit. let's not mistake the two.

Source again?

How expensive would it be for an ordinary person to make their own CPU design, manufacture it, and sell it?

literally billions

ARM was also revealed to be a brainlet. And VIA. And those russian CPUs.

also IBM power cpus

Is Sparc our only hope?

what the fuck
I may just be retarded but how can you view the source of a hardware?

nah AMD x86-64 processors are literally divine

Well, mostly schematics and circuit diagrams, but this isn't the fucking 1970s. These days there are hardware description languages that compile directly to hardware. Look up Verilog and VHDL.

I was always fascinated by different CPU architectures than x86 and I always thought that RISC is better than CISC. Am I wrong in this thinking?

Quick! Somebody call Elon Musk!

I like programming CISC assembly, mainly because it was created to be written by humans and not compilers. IBM System370 mainframe is especially comfy.

Modern cpus seem so fucking complicated. Where can I learn about them? Structure, architecures etc?

Modern CISC CPUs break their instructions down into smaller more RISC like (constant length) instructions. Then they use a pipeline in order to make the most of the processing time. Then there is a thing called a branch predictor which executes possible jumps ahead of time based on probability and heuristics, which is a huge performance gain.

RISC is generally faster, CISC is generally more programmer friendly. Both have drawbacks and benefits. There's a reason CISC is really popular, and there's a reason RISC is really popular.

>RISC is generally faster,
Yeah, because ARM is soooooooooooooo much faster than AMD64.

Aren't we all.

The reason that ARM processors are generally slower than AMD64 processors has nothing to do with architecture and everything to do with power draw and individual processor design. Compare the 6-core POWER8 (RISC) processor to a similarly-spec'd 6-core Intel Xeon (CISC) processor. The POWER8 blows it away.

Why doesn't IBM make consumer CPUs anymore? I'd love to have PowerPC in my home.

Check the patents yourself faggot.

They don’t even clear Intel’s competency

After they were forced to sell the Thinkpad line they realized that what they'd really always done best was design processors, and that
1) They couldn't possibly compete with Intel and AMD in the x86 market, and
2) Losing Apple's support was an irrecoverable loss and PPC isn't suitable for any situation that requires low power usage.

POWER8/POWER9 is very unlike PowerPC of the old days. They're playing the long game. All of their money goes to AI development and big data/quantum computing development (that's why they're rushing to get 7nm to the market within five years). Because they know that in fifteen years, quantum AI research and superscaled datacenters are going to be where the money is once consumer CPUs become too powerful to meaningfully upgrade.

And that last part is already happening; note Intel's ongoing two-year delay of 10nm dies.

And I'm guessing that POWER8 CPUs are very expensive or with no consumer application, right? Although it's curious that in the mid 2000s they had all consoles on the market use PowerPC and all Macs, and now you can't buy anything with a PowerPC CPU.

>And I'm guessing that POWER8 CPUs are very expensive or with no consumer application, right?
Yeah, basically. POWER8 CPUs have a lot of features that Intel/AMD CPUs lack that are specifically suited to server and datacenter applications (such as superscaling, automatic core allocation, etc.). They are very, very expensive and you cannot buy motherboards for them suitable for configuration into a desktop computer.
POWER9 (which came out this year) has currently only one system that it ships in, the AC922. It sports a 22-core processor and costs about $65,000.

>Although it's curious that in the mid 2000s they had all consoles on the market use PowerPC and all Macs, and now you can't buy anything with a PowerPC CPU.
Basically what happened was PowerPC was significantly faster than x86 for awhile, but unlike x86 PowerPC chips scaled their heat output linearly with IBM's year-over-year performance gains. Look into any of the late-era Mac Pros that used PowerPC processors and you'll notice how insanely intricate the heatsinks are. It was cheaper to move all their infrastructure and dev support to an entirely new architecture, basically rewriting the OS from scratch, then to keep trying to cool down PowerPCs in iteratively better models. Core Duo laptops are an order of magnitude faster than PowerPC G4 laptops despite drawing less power and producing less heat (the C2D came out about two years after the latest PPC G4s).

>They are very, very expensive and you cannot buy motherboards for them suitable for configuration into a desktop computer.

*cough*
raptorcs.com/TALOSII/prerelease.php

YO WTF

Here is the best part, the firmware is open source. No botnet.

Mother of god. I had no idea this existed.
I wish it wasn't so expensive. Even the single-CPU model with the minimum amount of memory is $6,200.

Ah wait, I was looking at the wrong one. It's $4,800 and you can lower that slightly by opting for a mechanical HDD.
That's actually less than the newest iMac Pro and it'll outperform it *easily*.

You don't need all that crap. If you buy the cheapest single CPU and mobo without ram or a case it's about $2400

secure.raptorcs.com/content/TL2B01/purchase.html

Freedom isn't free.

Open source hardware and hardware validation tools. Hardware vulnerabilities and hardware trojans are a real threat nowadays.

Man I wish I was rich

Nigger, I'm a 23 year old cs student, I make 12 bucks an hour writing shitty eclipse plugins and I just bought an x86 workstation for about 4000€. Learn how to manage your money, pal. Fuck, my monitor alone was 1000€.

>€
There you go man. I'm still in uni so basically all of my money goes to that. I have a couple hundred bucks saved up for emergencies but no real spending money.

Someday man.
Someday.

>basically rewriting the OS from scratch

>I'm still in uni so basically all of my money goes to that
America.

>amd
>incompetent
Pick one. AMD has a incompetent marketing team, their engineers are god tier.

You can easily check if OSS is legit, by compiling it yourself, but how about OSH? You can't manufacture your own silicon and check its behavior to be the same.

We could go back to discrete components.

Fuck, I want this now.

Some of the ARM are opensource. The M0 I beliee has a GPL’d Verilog HDL/ VHDL tree.
Other than that not really. It’s heavily licensed IP
Yeah the broadcom bootloader is shady
Arduino runs on a very antiquated platform, ATMEL
I was digging around 10 hours ago so there could be new info. Appears SPARC are not vulnerable (Sun added Out of Order Execution with sparc T4 in 2011, but the T8, M8 are extra not vulnerable. Fujitsu added OOE in 1995 but cannot find info on them except that M8), as SPARC principly have different unprivileged and privileged memory spaces from the context of the memory management unit. Oracle ran Solaris into the ground but they’ve been making mad commits to Linux/SPARCv9, so for the first time there will be a stable Debian 10/sparc64 (sparc 32 fork of debian ended with 7.2). Additionally Linux seems to manage memory in a scure fashion on sparc64.
Hardware Descriptive Language. advanced microcontrollers like skylake have some more nuanced aspects than System Verilog can address, but you can still get a bitching soft processor on an FPGA.
No. AMD and Intel employed RISC principles to their microroutine executions under the hood to improve their CISC
IBM is only releasing like 10,000 units for third party stuff like this. That can be eaten up with 5k dual CPU boards.

>tfw if I'd bought bitcoin when it was $500 I could buy one of these computers with it right now

Shut up, when I was 18 I had 4000€ and I wanted to buy at 150€, but I didn't.

You couldn't have possibly known. Stop knocking yourselves over, anons.

I knew. I was certain, but I was too much of a pussy. Hell, back then the only exchange was mt gox.

>tfw bought the hump and will never make a profit more than $10

How’d you get “Rewriting an OS” from that? There are a lot of existing, good PowerPC/POWER ports.

Out of curiosity, what OSes can you run on PowerPC?

Microsoft will do a shit job as always and apple will come out with a MacBook running their custom arm chip that out performs it in both performance and battery life

Literally if a couple good billionaires came to together and started this project.

We would have open source
- motherboards
- ram
- video cards
etc etc

Most linux/bsd ports. Also versions of MacOS prior to 10.9.

so sad
amd couldn't capitalise on their invention

How much longer till libre processors that can play light to mid demanding vidya and watch anime on mpv come out?

15 years

>good billionaires

Honestly this. I would be happy even with homemade hardware that's a few hundred MHz that costs under $1000 to make. You can run a full featured OS and GUI with a web browser on that, and even play some decent games. I can't even wait. And I would imagine that homebrew CPU making clubs would become commonplace, and you would get dozens or even hundreds of neckbeards like us pooling their goodboy points to buy better chip fabrication equipment. This is a future I want.

The ancap future just gets closer and closer

Linux, FreeBSD, AIX (that is IBM’s UNIX). Many embedded unixlike OSs that are ubiquitous in the network appliance market, as these chips (Mainly Freescale aka Motorolla PowerPC were in nearly every class of commercial router / switch since the Cisco 2600 router. If you find update firmware for network hardware, you can do an object dump and usually find it’s powerpc machine code.

> Web Browsers
> MHz
I’m with you if we can go back to static webpages.

I honestly can't wait for that day. I'd love to get into CPU designing, but not for some huge shitty corporation.

As long as you aren't using a single core you can browse some modern websites on a 300-600MHz CPU, as long as it's a quad core at least. It'll be slow as shit but usable. I can access most of the web just fine on a 1GHz dual core ThickBad from 2006 running a modern version of Debian.

There's already a big community for this stuff. If you want to get started just read some Wikipedia pages and visit Semiwiki.com. It has a lot of news on semiconductor tech and a lot of the things mentioned will get the wheels turning for people that are new to this stuff.

I can't wait to take my designs from software to hardware. It's gonna be great.

My sides

I found out I can fit a decent pair of risc-v cores on an artix 7 at 400MHz. Not quite web browsing tier by that standard.

Should I get a book explaining MIPS or something and try to implement it on an FPGA?

MIPS is openly available in HDL by its IP owner via github, actually. MIPS does not appear to be the future, however.

Should still be good enough for running a basic OS with office utilities and stuff.

MIPS is outdated but not the worst thing to start with. I'd say go for it.

MIPS was cool stuff in the 90s when SGI was using it. I have a few SGI workstations myself.

Well what other architecture could I learn? RISC-V is too new to have some kind of documentation or HDL code, right?

No. Risc-v is BSD licensed, been around several years now, and the specification is easily downloaded from the orgs website. You cab also find Risc-V IP cores, github HDL projects, and even a few SoCs here and there.

Cool. Thanks for the info, user. And can you contribute to RISC-V as an ordinary person?

Read into the BSD philosophy. You may fork, contribute, close source, charge money, and even call your implementation a Risc-V, use logo and all, as long as you stay within spec (which is still a very flexible spec as Extensions to the implementation are converned). BSD is like GPL’s permissive cousin.

As for the platforms you should learn, you should learn about as many as you can. Once you can understand the steps in a pipeline you can discern how certain architectures are more advantageous than others at certain things.