Graduate in computer science

>graduate in computer science
>every employer wants 5+ years of experience with a random technology you've never heard of that no university on earth has ever had classes dedicated to
Why did I even bother going to school? I'm just as unemployable now as I was four years ago. I thought CS was supposed to be the "easy" way to get a job these days.

I'm gonna give you a little tip

What the employer wants is just as ridiculous as what the employee wants. But at the end of the day, what the employer gets (i.e. those that actually apply for the job) is what they have to choose from - or not, and then the position remains unfilled, and they have to post another ad, perhaps lowering their demands this time, or raising their offer.

Demand and supply works both ways. Apply anyway, you have nothing to lose.

Keep applying, I was in the same situation.

most of those are a meme, keep applying , youll get one of those eventually. hardest job to find is the first one

And what is "ridiculous" about what employees want exactly? Is it a decent, liveable wage with benefits? Is that what's ridiculous?

Also
>job goes unfilled
Until they hire an immigrant because "we can't find americans"

From what I've read, every job posting is written by an HR monkey who doesn't really understand what the job is for. You are competing with whoever applies for the position. Maybe they have the wish list (they probably don't, since any applicants that did have all that experience can make way more money somewhere else), or maybe they don't...you lose nothing by applying anyways.

If you didn’t graduate from MIT with 4.0 while interning at Google, creating your own startup, inventing a new programming language and having 10+ research publications by graduation you might as well give up.

I've seen an NPR report of some of the overstated qualifications from job postings. Basically there is a perception gap where employers often mistakenly believe there is a surplus of overqualified candidates who will compete for the job regardless of the fact and that's simply not true. If you are interested in the job you should apply anyways because most likely no one that qualified will be interested in such a position. Unless of course you are applying for super senior jobs that are way out of your reach.

they need to have no one meet the requirements so they can justify bringing someone over for a working visa

this is what happened.

they hired a guy with 3 years exp of data warehousing.

then he worked there for 5 years doing ETL tools, and buisness intelligence reporting.


he quit, and they just copy pasted what he did, and how long he did it.

Lie

just lie
the HRmonkey and salesforce sifter does not know anything about what they are writing or asking for
as long as you can do what the interviewer asks after you get in, there is no problem

Any competent business out there wants 5+ years experience for a reason. It filters out the retards. And generally the jobs are actually good too. So unlike what anons like say there is competition. I've been at places that want 15 years experience for the management roles. Guess what? They fill them quick when they become available.

you don't know that.

if you're worth your salt, just apply anyway, and if they give you shit, well its likely not a company you want to work for.

I'm not saying it as an absolute. People get in with less experience than what the employer's want. My point is that the claims of the experience thing being bullshit are generally wrong. Especially anything dealing with Oracle. A lot of these businesses are competent and they want quality. If you have the attitude going in that business is incompetent at the gate it's probably not a good job.

>he wasted his life doing computers
glad i didnt fall for the sciences meme

Just be careful about applying, stay consistent with what you're applying as for a single company. If you shotgun everything that remotely interests you instead of just the top couple that you think you're good for your application will just get tossed out.

We do that with greenhouse as it's kind of a red flag you don't know what you want to do or are just shotgunning everything.

What's this posting for? Looks like a senior, or at the least, a mid level data engineering/warehousing position. Highly doubt it's a junior/entry level job.

It's even worse in Canada. 2 years applying to everything out of uni and no bites

How many jobs have you applied too? You should move for fuck's sake

200-400
Move where? How?
Seattle doesn't seem to want me, SF doesn't seem to want me, and now I have a fucking 2 year gap on my resume with nothing but projects.

At this point I'm just trying to assemble a team for *some* kind of startup because I'm at my wits end.

>just move lmao
moving takes money, need job for money
need to move to get job

Fugg, graduating in 6 months. That's my nightmare.

And it's hard especially with trump fucking nafta and making it harder to work in the states, along with weedlord inviting all of India in.

Canadians are no longer welcome in this country it seems.

If you haven't had any replies after 200+ applications and 2 years you need to think about switching careers or legit doing something else.

Either your resume is bad, you're applying to the wrong jobs, you need to get something lower skilled and work up, or just plain suck.

This basically.

I apply to all the entry level CS jobs, but why would they hire me over some phd from India

>that excel grid
what the fuck

Apply lower, especially if you have no experience. If you haven't had anything, literally anything you need to be looking for help desk possibly.

Have do you not have a job after applying to 400 places? That makes no sense to me. Are your skills that shit or something? You're telling me NO ONE will give you a shot? Are you a convicted murderer or some shit?

Honest question, what employer seriously sees "help desk" as appropriate experience for a programming/developer position? They're totally different. That's like a 5-star restaurant hiring you because you used to sweep the floors at Burger King

Mine did, along with the stuff I did on my own they thought I was good enough to be given a trial run. Shows you're not totally incompetent, which you honestly might be if after 200-400 applications you still haven't gotten something.

Apply to Corning Inc. I'm confident you'll get in. I have a hunch....you know glass makers? Apply to their Corning NY location.

> be me, late 20s
> experienced, coding since I was 13 years old
> working fine in Europe for years
> come to USA
> spend 3 months applying
> very few calls and only get to the first phone interview
> haven't even received the first coding test to prove my skills

I thought america was the land of milk and honey for developers

IT developer is what you put..

>just bullshit, no one will ever know!

Apply to Corning as a contractor

You should've found a job before moving here, vlad

the market isn't so good these days, there's way too many developers nowadays, anyone can call himself a fullstack developer after creating a bunch of shitty apps & websites.

I think what you mean is there's a shortage of good developers. Plenty of shit ones that flood the market.

I'm legal btw, greencard holder, based in houston. cannot find a job, have been applying for months now.

its crazy, I'm starting to believe the market is saturated as I had no problems getting offers in europe.

Why did you move before securing a job? Dumb move 101.

>going to college
>had a single internship before senior year after blasting out 100 resumes
>internship offers me job
>apply other places, get a different job offer and accept
>riding out till I graduate in may now

did I get lucky getting multiple offers or are you guys just shit? I literally only applied like 3 places my senior year and got an offer from one. After you get the phone interview if you aren't incompetent you get the job, I have had exactly two phone interviews and both those interviews ended up turning into job offers, you guys should go to your campus success center or whatever they call it where you guys live and do a mock interview, srsly. Even if you are graduated contact them and they will do one with you.

How does one not appear to be shotgunning when all you get to see is a resume and cover letter?

true that was very stupid, but again I thought it was going to be easy to find jobs here as I always had multiple offers to choose from in Europe.

You can see all the positions you've applied for with the same set of information. Greenhouse can piece partial info together. Even if you change some details it's still gets merged together.

It's pretty straightforward.

That's because europe is a shithole. No one goes there unless they're from an even bigger shithole in africa or muslim land or they're on vacation to do drugs and fuck strangers

wrong, I've worked in london and rates there can get pretty high, 450+ pounds a day for a competent developer.

It could be worse op. You couldve done English like me. Literally LITERALLY applying for mcdonalds. At least my loan is pretty tiny since not an americuck

It was probably the internship

Mid level java guy here. I worked as a Corp trainer + recruiting so listen to me. First, pick a language and learn. You can pick from Java, Python, or .Net to be safe. Each of these has an ecosystem of tools, frameworks, and technologies that you must know to get a job as a developer. The top one in java is the Spring ecosystem. To be a competent developer, you need to understand way more than hello world. You are going to need to know server side processing (jsps/servlets), databases (Sql, but pick a flavor like postgres), COLLECTIONS COLLECTIONS COLLECTIONS, jdbc (basic application database connectivity), exception handling, inheritance (abstract class vs interfaces), object relational mapping ( after jdbc ), and web services as the BASICS.

2. While learning, make some applications and put them on github. Be clear, clean, comment, and use your best behavior! This is important for the next part and if employers look at it. No employer wants to see foul language used in your codebase.

right, even when the "junior position" for "fresh grads" includes 2-3 years of experience?

3. Resume time, make a professional project based resume. Use this as a guide:

Title
Exec summary (8 bullet points of experience + tech + what you know. Each point should be a sentence)
Skill matrix (table)
Group - skill1, skill2...

Projects
P1 title - Your role
P1 summary - paragraph about what it is and your role. Don't go into details. Save that for next.
P1 points 6 - 10 bullet points similar to exec summary, but be very specific. DO NOT COPY PASTE BETWEEN PROJECTS

P2 SO ON AND SO FORTH

>you need to understand way more than hello world
that was very condescending so I am going to disregard everything else you said

Use the connections you made during your internships, that's their only purpose.

Only thing taught in school you listed are: Java, exception handling, inheritance (abstract class vs interfaces). Nothing else.

Where are you suppose to learn these ETL, and business intelligence reporting skills at? None of my classes teach this. Where do I learn it on my own?

4. Finally, it depends on where you live. Big city
Ies like Dallas, Seattle, and Charlotte have a lot of opportunity. Be mindful of what industry you want. Certain cities are home to certain types of industry. Dc if you are clean as a whistle and can get a clearance. Charlotte for fin tech. Dallas is a free for all.

Don't give up hope! However, you will only get out as much effort as you put in! Study every day, go to meetup, and work on your portfolio!

but thats true though

It sounds like your resume is shit. Post it.

Yep, I found that out the hard way too. Hence why I listed all those from Java. There are many of those in each language, but are roughly the same. You just have to study them.

>I'm just as unemployable now as I was four years ago.
>I thought CS was supposed to be the "easy" way to get a job these days.
And this is why you dont take career advice from boomers that have no fucking clue how the world works.
If an old person ever gives you this kind of advice, go shopping with them and their wife and observe how they act.
anyone that has, knows what Im talking about. Anyone who hasnt is going to have no clue what Im trying to say.

why u applying for some shitty company using oracle

come out here to the bay and use yolo.js

Oh, good learning places are tutorials point, stack overflow, and udemy. I think udemy has a boatload of courses for 10 bucks a pop right now.

>10 bucks a pop
Fuck that, I'm in enough debt as-is

I suppose you could find a SQL server software that you can easily install on your computer, figure out how to write code in Java that can run commands against it, and try things. One thought might be to look up some programming challenges and try to implement them using the technologies you want to learn. I also learn a lot by reading stackoverflow questions and answers about the technologies I use - just look for questions that you don't know the answer to, or questions that you think you can answer (even if someone else already answered, you can always write your own and not post it).

Then tutorials point. In the field that is 90% of your job anyway. Figure out new things and get reaaaaallly good at googling.

>Only thing taught in school you listed are: Java, exception handling, inheritance (abstract class vs interfaces). Nothing else.
You need to take the initiative and learn this on your own. Classes are woefully out of date and only there to get you introduced to topics. You should explore them on your own.

If all you do is prepare for what are in your classes you will be competitively stunted.

How do I explain a 2 year Gap from graduation due to depression.

Travelling. Watch documentaries on spain or some shit

This guy has it right. It sucks, MIT and Cornell grads get off good due to having more competitive curriculums. It is impossible for schools to update at the industries pace due to red tape and professors that haven't worked a project in 5+ years.

You don't really need to lie, just say you were hit with an illness that prevented you from working. I seriously doubt any interviewer would pry any further than that, but if they do then just tell them that you don't want to discuss the details with them because they are personal.

Thanks, this is helpful. Which udemy courses do you like personally?

Yep. The only reason I got a great job was because I had done a fuck ton on my own, learned enough and seen enough that when I was giving tasks I could just do them without being supervised.

Half my classmates that just did coursework couldn't tell you the difference between PHP/MySQL, yet somehow obtained a CS degree.

Great recommendations. Any recommendations on SQL server software to play around with?

It depends, do you have an area that you want to focus on (devops, general programming, databases, frameworks)?

Okay, good advice. Will follow it.

That's just HR. They ask the managers what they'd ideally like, and make the description accordingly, leading to ridiculous demands like having a DoD security level 9001 clearance, a bunch of certificates, knowledge over all languages and paradigms, 5 years experience, and a nice ass. Just apply anyways, EVERYWHERE. In city, in state, out of state, maybe even out of country.

general programming and data bases (just because I see a lot of ETL jobs I'd like to apply for).

Postgres is good. Free and reasonably easy to use. Mysql is good too.

Noted. Thanks!

Not him, but real underemployment in Canada is depression-level, and has been for many years.

lol i dunno. I got my first job by creating a bot which applied for hundreds of jobs for me so I didn't have to do the laborious process of applying myself. I still don't know how I got the job despite the fact the interview was a huge cluster fuck.

There is a "Complete Java Masterclass" that I bought as a gift once. The outline looks solid. I am a Spring guy so I personally liked the Spring Guru course line. There is a new one on Spring 5 that I really liked. For databases, they have some basic database ones, but follow the reviews. I see a lot of python guys doing etl so you might want to check on that route.

Had similar issues. The field is flooded with entry level job applicants. The only way I got my last two jobs are through recommendations from friends. At my current job we have like two open positions and had over 50 applicants, and this is at some small no name company in a non-tech hub city.

Oh, forgot to mention books. While college teaches us to hate books, I have learned they are really good for learning a-z basics from. I hated reading them in college, but I have gained a huge appreciation of them in the past few years. Some good software dev book makers are manning, Packt, and apress. The great thing is you can find FREE IT EBOOKS floating around if you know where to look.

Great recommendations. Checking out the Java class. To add to what you wrote use lib gen to search for books. Most of what I want is listed there. Thanks for all of your advice, it is solid.

All I want is to do computer support/low end network support. I'm qualified for it to, A+/Network+/few other certs. That's it. Developing/programming not for me. All the stress and bullshit that comes with being high up on the pole, well fine, others can have it. Yeah you make more being up high but after a while when the stress causes you to have a stroke at your desk, well might change your mind.

Well I guess I'll go with that! Thanks user!

the older generations in the US have essentially created a cabal suicide pact of a job market

first, they have a huge population. so they have widespread control. which means they inadvertantly coordinate with each other to all act the same way which reduces competition and removes incentives to change their corrosive ways.

they have all the wealth and they refuse to do anything but hoard it and leverage it into more wealth. they have no intention of paying younger employees fairly or investing for the future. their time in the workforce is coming to an end and they are sucking up every penny for themselves. not for their businesses, for themselves. in about 10 years, we will see a major depression in the US from the last of the boomers all retiring together causing their businesses to collapse.

the older generations have created a hiring system to keep out younger, less experienced employees by demanding work experience for even entry level jobs. so obviously no one young is getting hired. instead, they are passing the work of entry level jobs onto older employees. so our young people arent being trained to take over when the boomers retire in 10 years. our society wont be trained enough to handle the transition.

but boomers dont care, they're fine with society collapsing if theyre retired. a generation characterized by extreme selfishness and unconsicousness.

So all the young people getting hired today are getting shit pay (38k/yr is the starting salary of a cs major, absolutely absurd for such a technical skill) and arent getting the training they need. it's actually a cabal.

>Learn nothing but CS theory
>Expect it to give you a job
>Have 0 industry experience
>Know 0 industry tooling
>WAAAH WHERE'S MY JOB I KNOW HOW TO USE GIT
That's what an internship is for dumbass

> Is it a decent, liveable wage with benefits? Is that what's ridiculous?
Literally yes, every fresh grad is asking for $80k starting with full medical, dental, vision, two months paid vacation every year, and a christmas bonus all while working no more than 38 hours a week with the option to do so from home.

There arent nearly enough internships for it as a whole, much less outside of tech hubs.

>be 25
>fall for the CS degree meme
>one year in, required to do gender studies and world religions
>fuck that, dropped out and went to trade school
>did $130k last year as an OTR trucker
>bought maxed out Threadripper 1950x rig
>inb4 hurr automation yer gonna lose your job

No we aren't.

Not all of us can be computer nerds and if you have the aptitude for it, by all means get that cushy 8-5 and pretty much hit the nail on the head, employers ask for this ridiculous shit no different than negotiating rates for my next load, start high offer low and meet your broker in the middle.

The world will always need truckers to move shit, and the world will always need CS nerds to do CS shit. Everyone starts somewhere user, don't get discouraged.

Why do you care about their wish list user?
Every company would _love_ for someone to show up knowing the ins and outs of whatever slack-jawed process they've been doing. You know who knows that? The last guy.
Your goal isn't to convince them you know everything. Your goal is to convince them you know enough and can learn the rest.
Don't mention the technologies you don't know in your resume.
Do a little light reading on them before the interview.
If it comes up mention that you were looking at them after reading the job posting and, if appropriate, share your thoughts on them.

How dare the working class demand the value of their labor? Obviously the owners who sit on their ass making phonecalls and golfing all day deserve the value. The skilled working peasants should be happy enough to get breadcrumbs

Theres absolutely nothing absurd about that, masochist

>>fuck that, dropped out and went to trade school
But did you really want to go to college though? I find it hard to believe you dropped something you're passionate about simply because you had to take a class or two that you didn't want to.

I'd like to also had on top of that, employers ask for all these ridiculous requirements not to see if you know how to do them but they want to see that piece of paper that says you're trainable and can be instructed and follow through with something.

They do it in my industry too, when you sign up at one of these starter companies they try to break you before you even get in the door. I was required to take a Greyhound bus 3 days straight with no sleep so they could see if I would still be on time for all my classes and seat time before I even left with a trainer. My job can be high pressure at times and they want to see how you handle it before they hand you the keys to a $150K 80,000lb 73' long Freightliner cruise missile.

No employer wants to hire someone that can do the job but has poor work ethic and is lazy as shit. 4 years of college usually weeds most of those people out by the time graduation comes around.

There's plenty, they're just not glamorous and pay crappy.

Why the hell should any business pay somebody with no work experience, no industry tooling knowledge, and no humility that much money with that many benefits? Take the first job that offers you enough money to comfortably cover your rent and put some into savings and then in two years job hop to get a 50% raise and your precious benefits. You're bottom of the barrel as fresh meat, nobody is going to give you your dream salary. You have to fucking earn and work for it.