/itcg/ - IT Career General

#3: Slimming Down the OP Edition

Previous thread: At any given time there are usually 3+ threads on Sup Forums about IT careers, steady jobs and freelancer work. They are usually varied and encompass many aspects such as ranting, dickwaving, crying about shit bosses/employees, career advice, "the chinks took our jobs!" and other work-related shitposting. This a general to encompass all that and thus clean up the board a little.

>why not make this thread on /adv/?
Have you met those people? There's not one poster above 100 IQ there.

>how do you define "IT career"?
Any career where technology is at the core.

>so monkeys only then?
Nope, administrators, coordinators, project leaders, techies and anyone else that considers their main field technology are welcome here.

>what if I'm in college?
If you want to have a career in IT, this is the place to ask your questions.

If you want some nice meaty answers, or really good advice, include as many of the following answers in your post as possible:
>what sector do you currently work in and at what level?
>how long and what experience do you have in IT?
>what education do you have if any, and at what level?
>do you have any certification?
>where do you want to be in 10 years?
>what motivates you, or what do you want out of a potential workplace?

If you want to contribute, or you got a good answer and you know your way around photoshop, we'd love to have you shop the general logo onto some cute office-employed anime sluts like pic related for our first-posts. A few of you made a few good ones last thread, and they are saved and will be used in the future!

Other urls found in this thread:

yegor256.com/2014/10/29/how-much-do-you-cost.html
yegor256.com/2015/12/22/why-dont-you-contribute-to-open-source.html#comment-3269586893
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

HOW MUCH DO YOU COST?

>I'm getting a few emails every day from programmers interested in working remotely. The first question I usually ask is "what is your rate?"

>This article explains what factors I do and don't take into account. I do find them objective and logical.

>1. Open Source Contribution

>This is the first and the most important characteristic of a software developer. Do you contribute to open source projects? Do you have your own open source libraries that are used by some community? Do you write code that is publicly available and used?

>If your GitHub account is empty, I immediately lose interest. On the other hand, when I see a 100+ stars project in your GitHub account, I get excited and ready to offer a higher rate.

>2. Geographic Location

>You've chosen the country that you live in. You're using all the benefits of a well-developed country and you're paying for them. It's your choice. You decided to spend more money for the quality of your life—what does it have to do with me?

>We prefer to work with people whose expenses are lower. Our money will simply work better.

>3. StackOverflow.com Reputation

>If your profile there is empty (or you don't have one) I realize that you 1) don't have any questions to ask and 2) you have nothing to answer.

>If you're not asking anything there, you are not growing. If you're not answering, you simply have nothing to say. In most cases, this means that you're not solving complex and unique problems.

>StackOverflow is proof that you can find answers to your questions by communicating with people you don't know. It is a very important skill.

CONTINUES...

>4. Years of Experience

>If your CV says that you just started to program two years ago and your GitHub and StackOverflow accounts are empty—there is still a chance you will improve. You're just in the beginning of your career. However, if your CV says that you're a "10-year seasoned architect" with zero open source contribution—this means that you're either lying about that ten years or you're absolutely useless as an architect.

>5. Certifications

>In order to get them you should pass an exam. Not an easy one and not online. It is a real exam taken in a certification center, where you're sitting in front of a computer for a few hours, without any books or Internet access, answering questions.

>It is a very good sign, if you managed to go through this. If you've done it a few times, even better.

>6. Skills Variety

>The more technologies or programming languages you know, the less you cost.

>Thus, when I hear that you're "experienced in MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle and SQLite" I realize that you know very little about databases.

>7. Talks and Publications

>I think it is obvious that having a blog is a positive factor. Even better is to be an occasional speaker at conferences or meetups.

>These things demonstrate that some people already reviewed your work and your talent. This means that we also can rely on your opinions.

>8. Previous Employment

>I usually don't pay much attention to this section of your CV. Even if your title is "CTO of Twitter"—it doesn't mean anything to me.

>VPs and CTOs spend most of their time on management meetings and internal politics.

>I'm much more interested in what you've done over the last few years than in where you've done it and what they called you while you were doing it.

>9. Education

>BSc, MSc, PhD... do we care? Not really. If you have nothing to say about your activity in the university than what will the name of it tell me?

Full article: yegor256.com/2014/10/29/how-much-do-you-cost.html

first for India

I wish the javascript bubble would die off and that unity/unreal would stop enabling soyboys from making their "randomly generated pixel-art platformer game with political agenda" and "app that is like uber but for walking your dog" type of ideas

I'm just throwing a fit because every job posting around here is "mongo electron angular grunt go node npm macbook pro sublime text"

I am currently writting my thesis and will finish my degree in the near future - which implies I have to leave my cushy pseudo-neet life and start wageslaving.

The main problem is that I actually started to hate coding in the last year, low level coding and scripting is fine though - Should I just become a sys/server admin or do those jobs become obselete anyway with the rise of AI, automatization and mightier script languages?

>low level coding and scripting is fine though
embedded/firmware programming is probably for you

This. The JavaScript plague needs to fuck off and take all it's betamales with it.

This is such a Silicon Valley cult-of-personality type description.
>don't care about formal education
>but Stackoverflow, that's IMPORTANT!
>10 years of experience doesn't matter
>but m-muh open source!
>the more technologies you know the less you're worth
>previous employment doesn't matter

Fucking hell, it's the ultra-liberal's guide to hiring programmers.

>people are hiring employees that they want to have beers with rather than those with actual credentials
>bean bags in the lobby
>everyone has a macbook pro

>everyone has a macbook pro
If I see this when entering an office for an interview I essentially turn around at the door. There is very little they can say at that point that's going to interest me.

Is working on a Mac Book really THAT bad in the tech industry?

>college is paying me to tutor students during my last senior year
>14/hr

is this a good thing to list on a resume once i graduate

also does that kind of pay even sound good

It sounds like shit, but it's a great job for keeping stuff fresh in your head, and yeah it does look good on your resume.

I led a few seminars in my senior year, and putting that on my resume helped me land my first IT job.

It might depend on your degree and where you want to work though?

Helldesk at a local place pays 10$/hr
Helldesk at my university pays 10-14$/hr
I've been grinding tickets down playing junior system admin for the cost of your tutoring,

>Helldesk
I actually laughed.

I'm graduating this year and hope to leave it. Unfortunately my resume is screaming tech support so I've been cursed with recruiters trying to fill their positions there. I dunno if taking a management role will be any better

How does a private helpdesk pay less than a public university helpdesk?

>tfw imposter syndrome leads to depression

Currently year 11, what classes should I pick Sup Forumsentoomen? I've tried to teach myself some languages without much luck. Security and admin seems somewhat interesting IMO

Is it just me or is impostor syndrom incredibly common in IT? I've noticed people on Sup Forums complain about it all the time, and some even show indirect signs of it by saying they got their jobs on luck or that it was just a hunch and shit.

What the fuck is the reason so many people in IT suffer from this?

I really fucking hope this guy is a troll. He's basically demanding obedient slavery out of your own free will. It's absolutely fucking sickening.

Well do you like tech support? What's your degree in? If it's CS then you're probably fine and should have some good career aspirations when you do graduate.

MOMMY MILKY

I know that feel. I really do feel that I got my job out of pure luck though. Now I'm getting laid off, which reinforces my thinking that I wasn't very valuable :^) h-haha

IT is still considered very mystical, and a lot of people still believe that there are very clearly defined "genius" programmers out there.

Hell, some people from Google did an entire talk about how there was no such thing for the sole reason of combating impostor syndrom in IT.

...

>never feel like I'm as good as EVERYONE else and that my boss will realize any day now that I'm nothing but a sham and will fire me
>no one will ever hire me again and my degree and experience are nothing but a fluke
>mfw

No, just a sign of employment or hipsters, and Sup Forums confuses the two

>The Real Silicon Valley
This worries me deeply.

>Real Silicon Valley
>Vice
>Feminist Frequency
>numales
>Mac
>that lighting scheme
>le work on the couch xD
>33k views
I hate this industry.

In Management Information Systems. I'm already trying to take leadership roles in the current job to open doors to management jobs.

I don't mind tech support. At least in my current job I manage virtual machines and scripted some powershell and bash things to make things easier. Although it really depends on the customers. An angry customer can just drain you through the week.

Outside of tech support I got some experience in SQL and have set up HP/Cisco switches/APs, so I could go down networking or database routes. I do want to get a cert before I graduate though so I can solidify my experience somewhere, but it's a tossup between the CCNA / Redhat or VMware. If you got any other ideas of paths or certs, I'm open to anything.

>Currently year 11
In what?

ya know, 2nd year of high school

Would be nice to reject all minority and women programmers, regardless if they're good or not.

First year of college here (not what the Americans call university)

It's because nobody actually knows what a good IT guy or programmer is. Anyone can spot the outright liar, but nobody can spot the genius.

Hi friends. Does CAD/CAM stuff count?
Thinking about my future, wondering if anyone has some advice.
I've been playing with computers my whole life. Picked up a few things... programming (lots of languages. web dev, app dev, conventional software, devops, automation, scripting, etc), sysadmin stuff (Windows & Linux- servers for personal use and personal projects), daily use of Windows & Linux, consumer-level networking, virtualization (qemu/kvm & Xen).

Several years ago, I started a dinky little software company that offered a specific service to a niche few clients. Their business slowed down as their shit fell apart, so what used to sustain me for years no longer is. I'm lamenting how I 'wasted' time in the years since establishing it by not setting-up other work, but I did spend essentially the whole time picking-up new skills.

I don't have any degrees or certs. I'm not hopeful that I'll get a good IT job anywhere without having to fight like hell for it... and I'm not sure I want to fight to do something I love. I don't want to ruin my hobby.

Because of this, I'm aiming to find a new career in machining, CAD & CAM programming, by finding an apprenticeship where I can learn the physical side, then I'm pretty confident I can rock the CAD side pretty effectively. It's interesting to me personally, but not really a 'hobby'... so I'm hopeful it won't contribute to any hobby burn-out.

Is this a stupid plan? With my experience, could I get some cushy role at a nice little company somewhere where I keep their network's lights on? Everywhere I look, people are wanting tons of expensive certs or degrees.. and I can't really afford those in time or money for now. I feel kind of forced out, regardless of the burn-out concern I have.

Just wondering what anyone else thought... thanks!

I've been doing IT related jobs for 15 years now, currently I pretty much just manage servers and workstations with no enthusiasm for my daily grind. I remember how I liked my job at first and how management has made me lose all love I had for complex systems.

I've taken another job on the side which already pays better per hour basis and satisfies me in ways my main job really hasnt in years. I'm working for my exit plan now, I have a $500k mortgage so I kinda cant quit but I hope to within a few years.

Maybe I'll keep my side job, try to do more of it and perhaps open some coffee shop for sidebucks while quitting the IT administration gig.

/lifejournal/

That can't be it. A good programmer is a guy who solves problems with the latest technology and understands what's being done and what has been done before.

The archetype is incredibly easy to recognize but so few actually fit the bill.

>expects people to spend their free fucking time contributing to open source and helping clueless CS students on their homework
>implying that all code ever written should be open source and publicly available
>calls anyone who is contractually obligated to not talk about their project to others or work on other projects a "slave" (in the comments section)
Jesus fuck, and people wonder why most startups die.

Why do you even care though? Everyone check out the freak who lets webdev soyboys get to him.

It's just the silicon valley poison (for now) luckily.

When is it too late to start a CS degree?

>A good programmer is a guy who solves problems with the latest technology and understands what's being done and what has been done before.

I would argue that a good programmer is someone who solves problems with the /most appropriate/ technology. Latest is not always better. Sometimes new technology falls into traps that mature options have encountered and resolved long ago. Sometimes new technology is another attempt at a non-obviously bad idea. Understanding the benefits and natures of the technologies available and selecting the one most appropriate is always better.

The rest I agree with: needs to understand what the solution will entail and what wheels don't have to be re-invented... but should have a fair understanding of said wheel nonetheless.

This is what I'm trying so hard to avoid. I love technology and programming... but before I'd get into a position where something similar can happen, where management or circumstance drains my interest in the topic, I'm hoping I can jump ship to something else that tangentially interests me but is not my core hobby- CAD/CAM programming/machining.

She is nowhere NEAR milky-tier.

>The archetype is incredibly easy to recognize but so few actually fit the bill.
Why so few? What is everyone else doing?

I'm working as IT manager in a pretty big company, but despite my best efforts to Always help i'm often with nothing to do. What should i do to be helpfull even when there's nothing to do?

Not being geniuses, I guess? A genius is a rare commodity, and everyone else is somewhere else on the spectru,.

This is infuriating.

Heh you'd be shoe-in my position as I () work for a engineering firm which uses CAD/CNC software as a daily tool. We jumped early onto virtualization train as I immediately saw the benefits and most of our beefiest workstations run on a virtualized platform so I can utilize their hosts as servers when needed.

Cant really help you with proper advices. Most of the decisions I've made have made my situation only worse :^) life's too short to do something you hate for a shitty compensation. Which is why I'm getting out.

Guys how much is an acceptable payment for an entry-level webdev job?

I live in Manhattan but I think I'm getting taken advantage of.

I wouldn't mind too much if he's actually paying out the ass for their passion. But if his ideal developer isn't being paid that much more than the guy who's just doing his job well and is only working for money while spending his free time spending time on hobbies, family, friends, etc., then he can fuck right off.

You totally know he's not going to pound out the big bucks. He's a liberal soyboy cucklord who wants to form a cult of personality around him.

I hate this way of thinking that dictates that code monkeys are practically slaves.

No other industry works this way, not even high-level executive leadership positions require as strict stripping of all values except work in order to be accepted.

Infuriating.

In Manhattan? I honestly wouldn't take anything less than 85k. And that's the absolute minimum. Worst case, take what you can get but get out ASAP.

Jesus fuck I'm making 45k and I thought I was only BORDERLINE being taken advantage of. Holy tap-dancing Christ.

I need to have words with my boss.

Thanks for the reply user.

>85k
>at entry level
Really? Either you're full of shit or I need to go rethink my entire fucking life.

Help a NEET get into DevOps or Software Eng/Dev

No relavent job experience, no formal education beyond high school, no professional certifications.

Late 20s. Last hope to get my life together and get out of parents basement otherwise I end it all

Willing to consider Software Eng/Dev or related jobs too but would prefer DevOps (as I'm told this field isn't too anal about education, maybe I'm misinformed?)

Don't care about salary. Will be happy with 60k (obvs hope for better). Don't want to be a fucking Techie tho

wasted my teen and early tween life working customer service and hack sales jobs (read:car sales). Depressed and unemployed for past few years after realizing I was literally ripping old people off and working 60 hour weeks to earn a buck.

Willing to put in the hard yards if someone can show me the way

plz halp

>85k

Are you high? I'd say 45-60k at intro-level, while 80-90k when you're a senior with 10 years experience. Maybe. If you're lucky.

Do you know how expensive NYC is?

Do not be worried user, for I have been in your exact shoes. I was 28 with only a high-school diploma to my name (and I was an average student even there!).

First thing you need to drop from orbit right now is the "I don't want to be a techie"-shit. That's where your first round of experience is going to come from when you're educated yourself and blowing it off out of pride is silly. You can usually make 30-40k and after a year or two you've got experience to move up anyway.

You're going to need SOME form of formal education, in community college or in certifications. Both are good, but certifications are obviously a lot easier. You can certify to be a techie, do it for a few years, then use that to ascend.

Head over to code academy and start learning basics. It's free and it's idiot-proof and at least you won't be lying when you say you actually KNOW stuff.

60k is doable as an early dev, no problem at all.

What do you feel like most? Community college or certs? Do you have any informal experience? Like are you good with computers?

All in all, you can be a software engy in about 3-5 years if you get your shit together. Use your downtime learning, or find some charity that could use tech-help.

I belive in you user!

Once again, this is in Manhattan. The city with one of the highest COL in the entire US of A. I'm not web dev, but the first dev job I got was close to 90k and not in NY. Do yourself a favor and negotiate aggressively when getting a new job. I know there's some law they passed in NY that prevents employers from asking about your salary history, which is great. One less way for businesses to fuck you over.

I am not buying that it's 85k-or-starve-expensive!

Woaw, maybe I was wrong then. Jesus I thought 90k sounded ludicrous for an entry-job.

How much do apartments cost there? A million a year?

Man, this has to be the nicest and most helpful thread on Sup Forums.

If you mean that, it warms my heart. I've gotten a ton of good help here too!

If you're being sarcastic, then I feel less good, but I got good advice so it's all good.

Hard to tell online, and even harder on Sup Forums where everyone's operating on 15 levels or irony.

Nah I'm not being sarcastic user. I've gotten a lot of help and it's super comfy.

Then you are in fact my nigga.

I'm practicing interview questions. but currently my CV is lacking non-trivial experiences in working with middlewares, such as databases, nginx etc... how do I fill this ?

It bothers me internally that there is a good chunk of employers out there who think this way. Jesus fuck worst timeline.

There are two options in a situation where your CV is lacking. Either A, get experience, or B, lie.

Lying is bad (m'kay), but can work if you have someone higher up willing to lie FOR you. For example if you happen to know a friend who works at ExCorp or something, and he's willing to tell an employer that you helped out over a summer setting up databases.

The other hand is getting experience. This is a problem because to get experience you have to HAVE experience.

However there are online courses and certifications you can take which require nothing and will make your CV look slightly less dead inside. Have your considered that?

I didn't know there are certifications for stuffs like that.

Not him, but yeah, there are database management certifications you can get a hold of.

>Wants all of his employees to contribute to others OSS
>He himself only contributes to his own projects

yegor256.com/2015/12/22/why-dont-you-contribute-to-open-source.html#comment-3269586893

Fuck this guy, a total hypocrite

Honestly, just stay a neet. Its really not worth getting a job and having to go to work every day.

>Honestly, just stay a neet.
Who's gonna fund your lifestyle?

Your taxes, probably.

Will being a QA Engineer help in the future if I want to switch to a non-QA position like a Sysadmin or non-programming position

Any IT position CAN help you land any other IT position if you're amazing at interviews. A good interviewer can turn a modest IT-janitorial position into practically anything.

Do you interview godlike?

any tips then?

If gitting gud at interviews isn't an option, then you want certification. Sysadmins can go far on the right certs and they don't require any further formal education.

Still though, take a speaking course or something. Interviews are where shit's settled.

Was ment for

Fuck off

I wish I was better at interviews. I always get nervous.

You just gotta practice user. Send out a dozen applications a week and go to every interview you can! You can do it!

Private sector can afford to have shitter contracts and lower pay because they don't have the moral obligations that a public sector employer would be held to.

I worked for a private help desk supporting national infrastructure and they took on teenagers in an apprenticeship scheme, paid them about £3/hr and worked them as hard as anyone else on tier 1.

You could always look into getting ISO certification

Woaw I didn't know that. Are apprenticeships essentially internships?

another example of someone blowing salary expectations out of proportion. Anyone asking Sup Forums about monetary compensation needs to divide the average returned figure by around half to get something that's close to real world pay

I'm not sure what the textbook difference is between the two but the UK government launched incentive schemes not long ago to take secondary school graduates and give them work experience via apprenticeships while they would still go to college one day a week.

They're trying to make it more akin to a trade apprenticeship like those mechanics, carpenters or plumbers would take. I agree with the idea in theory but the implementation I saw was the definition of cheap labor. Torys love giving that sort of stuff away to big private firms through employment "projects" though.

>doing a CS degree at a mediocre university because I couldn't get in anywhere else
>it's basically a renamed IT degree with discrete maths and a single algorithms subject thrown in
>can transfer to somewhere much better with my near-perfect (undeserved) grades but it'll take longer to graduate because the curriculums are so different and my final grade will be much lower with it being reset on transfer and having the easy first year subjects credited
I should have done better in school

Currently I'm working as a junior plsql/apex developer. Is this a bad carrier choice? I dont want to waste my time with a dead language.

OK. Absolute newfag here. Developed my skills absolutely independently. Never worked in tech before. Consider myself to be at least junior-level, certainly not clueless or incompetent. Not a sperg.
>recruiters lead me on for ages then disappear completely
>at least one failed to contain their laughter when they went over my resume
>HR at companies really are absolutely clueless
>Hardly know how to gauge my technical abilities
>Nothing but behavioural/situational questions, they're just looking for an excuse to throw me out the window
Having no industry experience or connections (where would I start???), but I am working on a 2-yr degree in IT to see if it gets the HR spergs to take me seriously
Any other advice?
t. also does C, C++, D, .NET programming on the side, in free time

You haven't even mentioned what you have experience in. What do you mean by "IT Degree". Like a business IT degree for IT management and support?

Recruiters are always cancer, I don't know how much better or worse they are in other sectors but you will never not run into clueless recruitment agents, they all just try match you to the bullet points for each position they're working on.

If you came across as vague and retarded to recruiters then I can see why they laughed at you. What can you actually do and what are you actually studying right now

Dont fall for the education meme. Degrees are bullshit, just lie on your CV.
I know a guy who went to jail for fraud, knows nothing about IT, comes out and lands himself a comfy 2nd line with his bullshit CV. He had pie graphs and everything...

crypto

don't work hard, work smart.

Ah. Currently working on a IT degree program focusing on general support and management of computing and network assets
>network support
>tech support
>business IT
>also given a chance to take (and pass) the entry-level CompTIA exams - could have done those in my sleep if I wanted to
>>A+
>>Net+
>>Security+
>>LPIC/Linux+

Some jobs around me for an associates position (Associate Network Engineer) expect me to have a top secret security clearance.
Those are usually issued to already government employees, how's someone supposed to break in like that?

That looks very similar to the path I started on
>too lazy to get good university course in CS
>went to a community college and did a 2 year "CS" course instead
>graduated and went straight into the support grinder
>7 years later only now studying to get into devops
My advice would be to grab all of those certificates, you will need every bit of help you can get.

You will easily land a helpdesk job after completing or even managing just half of that course. Helldesk is literal cancer though but if you want to work in operations then you have to deal with it. Try get through it as quick as possible, normally support staff for the first few years can work up the ladder quite quickly. If you know what you're doing than you should only work level 1 support for about a year (Try find an MSP to work with, don't go for "level 1" support with a cell phone carrier or software support firm, the experience will be useless). If your employer wont promote you to level 2 then just look for somewhere else. For the longest time you will only manage promotions though changing jobs