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/dpt/ - Daily Programming Thread
Julian Rogers
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screenshots.firefox.com
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github.com
en.coursera.org
cs.princeton.edu
cs.princeton.edu
cs.cmu.edu
algs4.cs.princeton.edu
twitter.com
Ryan Wright
Threadly reminder that leaking memory and crashing is a valid side-effect because it's not a result. Rust DOES NOT compile programs that produce unintended output and other invalid results, unlike C++.
Jaxson Gonzalez
Treadly reminder to use #![feature(nll)].
Hunter Roberts
Wait, this is not >>>r/Rust ????
Blake Jackson
>mfw the memes are real
Jeremiah Baker
disgusting
Michael Lee
>the face of mozilla
Nicholas Davis
>ancom
>antifa
>antiim
this guy's like a collect'em'all of cults
>MLM
that's a new one, can't be multi level marketing (tbf it kinda is tho)
>Marxism–Leninism–Maoism
oh wow, let a thousand flowers bloom
Robert Moore
Does NLL make the BC not treat me like some kind of drooling retard who has no idea what I'm doing?
Juan Harris
I rather use chrome than Firefox now, thanks
Dominic Wilson
No, NLL can't make BC not to treat you the way you ought to be treated.
Camden Hill
But the BC treats EVERYONE like that.
Lincoln Campbell
>white male
>face of mozilla
Stop oppressing me.
t. Elisabeth Henry
Gabriel Cook
Not me tho.
Kevin Ross
>upper-middle class
>white
>female
>fat
>ugly
these people just can't stop themselves from being walking cliches, can they?
Ryan Peterson
It's bad, just not as bad.
Asher Rogers
> I used to work as a programmer, but couldn't find a job
Bitch, doing codeacademy isn't working.
Thomas Miller
>BC
blaq Coq?
Jeremiah Thompson
Does the BC with NLL let you borrow multiple mutable references?
If not, it's treating you like a drooling retard.
Aaron Perry
What's wrong with leaking memory again?
Been working on this. gist.github.com
Weighted unions have been implemented. Next up is path compression. Loving Nim so far.
screenshots.firefox.com
William Rodriguez
>What's wrong with leaking memory again?
There's literally nothing wrong with leaking memory and crashing. Didn't you read what I said? It's not an invalid result. It's just a valid side-effect.
Brody Ross
>multiple mutable references
Of course not, it's unsafe, and if you still think it's a good idea you should go back to producing security vulnerabilities in C or whatever language is primitive enough not to intimidate you.
Jackson Lopez
Ops, wrong screenshot.
Memory leaking and crashing are not results, so they can't be either valid or invalid. It is a side-effect though.
Ethan Barnes
>it's unsafe
See? BC treats you like a drooling retard who can't responsibly handle unsafety.
Not to mention that the BC is sometimes just outright wrong about your programs correctness even in trivial situations.
The BC is shit.
Jeremiah Smith
> Rust niggers don't even know how a goddamn conditional statement works
Like clockwork
Cameron Ramirez
That's right. They're not results, so they can't be valid or invalid, so there's literally nothing wrong with leaking memory and crashing. When it comes to actual things that matter, Rust doesn't compile programs that produce incorrect results. Anyone who refuses to use Rust is just asking for bugs, and is probably a C++ retard.
Cooper Ward
>strict compiler makes up for my lack of discipline
wow, still looking for a controlling husband even after all the feminism she consumed (literally, it looks like)
Thomas Miller
dude, separate your nimposting from your rustposting
Otherwise I can't pretend that nimposters are sane well adjusted individuals whose work I wholeheartedly support.
Logan Barnes
Segfaults aren't results. Are segfaults valid side-effects in Rust?
Nathaniel Williams
> Gun safety treats you like a drooling retard who can't responsibly handle guns
That's because no one can reliably all the time. If you think otherwise you should try writing something more complex than FizzBuzz.
Ethan Lewis
Sometimes my Rust programs wipe out every writable file on the user's system, but it's just a side effect, and side-effects can't be invalid.
Noah Lopez
Eh, Rust is a bit too difficult for me, I tried it before. I think it pays off but I am not a systems dev.
Bad luck for you I suppose.
Not only rust in general, but side-effects cannot be valid/invalid.
Brandon Barnes
I wrote a fucking kernel, you have no idea what you're talking about. Nigger.
Jacob Campbell
Leo Murphy
David Cruz
Because BC's job is to guarantee safety, not to warn you and move on.
You should use RefCell if you cannot guarantee proper static borrow checking.
Aaron Sullivan
Does the language library code make system calls? Or does it just ask the kernel to make a system call?
I thought syscalls were used by user code to communicate with and request from the kernel.
Jonathan Price
>Better performance than C++ (in most cases, not all)
HAHAHA
Christian Morris
>Because BC's job is to guarantee safety
It's too course so it's shit.
>You should use RefCell if you cannot guarantee proper static borrow checking.
Proof that it's too coarse.
Ryder Murphy
>You should use RefCell if you cannot guarantee proper static borrow checking.
Are there any jobs that pay to know this?
Seems to me, that when you get a job in the industry, no one gives a rat's ass about this
Nicholas Cooper
I see that you are still salty from the anal rape you received few threads back.
Carter Morgan
Could someone make a new thread?
"/cvsr/ - Eternal C++ vs. Rust thread"
Every /dpt/ is getting derailed with the same stupid discussion over and over again.
Carson Ortiz
It's literally the gatekeeper weeb with its new anti-Rust fixation
Jaxon Wright
First one
This, it's gotten old real fast
Leo Sanders
"Asking the kernel to make a syscall" doesn't make sense. A syscall IS how you ask the kernel to do something.
Yes, standard library code (and some other libraries) do make syscalls.
Syscalls are done by just putting some arguments in registers (or on the stack) and raising a specific software interrupt (int 0x80 on i386).
Liam Lopez
>It's too course so it's shit.
There are some situations where BS can be pain in ass, but with NLL they are not longer an issue.
>Proof that it's too coarse.
How do you imagine static BC checking borrows that depends on runtime?
>Are there any jobs that pay to know this?
Basically any Rust job? It's basics.
Good luck in finding one though.
Gabriel Rivera
is there a real difference between these two methods, or is it just preference?
pastebin.com
William Reed
What do you mean? I'm agreeing with you that side-effects are neither valid nor invalid, and are, therefore, irrelevant to the correct operation of a program. Also, I agree that it's impossible to compile a Rust program that produces incorrect results. Why are you attacking me?
Grayson Smith
>How do you imagine static BC checking borrows that depends on runtime?
By not having borrows that depend on runtime? A perfectly fine grained BC should be able to do that.
Jace Martin
Shut the fuck up dude
David Rodriguez
cuck
Jaxson Martinez
>he gets mad because people agree with what he said
Wow... I didn't know our community had unwelcoming members like you...
Luke Thompson
brilliant argument.
John Morgan
He wasn't arguing, he's thinking his posts are remotely funny/though provoking.
Jayden Wilson
>By not having borrows that depend on runtime?
How would limiting your options and removing RefCell fix BC or improve developing in Rust in any way?
Anthony Ward
>Autism rust
Asher Carter
How is it an argument for anything? Is your toy kernel somehow free of bugs and vulnerabilities?
Chase Watson
Doesn't Nim have methods?
Easton Cox
>Is your toy kernel somehow free of bugs and vulnerabilities?
Of course not. I should've written it in Rust, which doesn't compile programs that produce incorrect results. Just look at Redux: it's perfect. Only a few side-effects.
Juan Lewis
Camden Garcia
Memes aside, what makes multiple mutable references unsafe? I don't think it's about multithreading, because they have send and sync for that, right?
Jordan Baker
Most of those "issues" are just side-effects. It doesn't prove anything. Side-effects are irrelevant to the correct operation of a program.
Cooper Ramirez
Okay, so the general idea of path compression is going higher in the tree.
proc root*(structure: UFStruct; n: int) =
## **Worst case: O(n)**
##
## Finds the root of a value in a component
var result = n
while structure.id[result] != result:
structure.id[result] = structure.id[structure.id[result]]
result = structure.id[result]
proc union*(structure: var UFStruct; p, q: int) =
## Attach the the smaller tree to the bigger tree.
## This proc determines whether p or q belongs to the bigger tree.
## This involves finding roots to both p an q. Are you looking for the quickUnion proc?
var
rootP = structure.root(p)
rootQ = structure.root(q)
if rootP == rootQ:
return
if structure.sz[rootP] > structure.sz[rootQ]:
structure.id[rootQ] = rootP
inc(structure.sz[rootP])
return
structure.id[rootP] = rootQ
inc(structure.sz[rootQ])
proc quickUnion*(structure: var UFStruct; longTree, shortTree: int) =
## Attaches the short tree to the long tree
var
rootL = structure.root(longTree)
rootS = structure.root(shortTree)
if rootL == rootS:
return
structure.id[rootL] = rootS
inc(structure.sz[rootL])
Matthew Sullivan
let v = vec![1, 2, 3];
let r = &mut v[0];
v.push(4); // Second mutable reference is created during call. Adding new value to a vector may realocate it
println!("{}", r); // r might be pointing to old, freed memory
Ryan Kelly
I see.
Fuck that shit, this is why I use GC.
Benjamin Perez
Yes
en.coursera.org
cs.princeton.edu
cs.princeton.edu
cs.cmu.edu
algs4.cs.princeton.edu
Nicholas Cooper
>been working on prototype page/app that can be controlled by dialogue with an robot using natural language for few days
>have fun exploring speech recognision, parsing grammar etc
>client suddenly decides it's too ambitious
>they only want generating text descriptions for listings from provided data
>it can be created from string templates, but they want to use some shit bloated buzzword filled nonsense proprietary technology so I have to go through whole api documentation to understand what does it actually do
kill me Sup Forums
Or you can use language who slaps you in the face when you make such a non trivial mistakes.
Michael King
>keeps references to the internals of a data structure
>w-wow the reference is invalid when the implementation reallocates the buffer behind my back
>better disallow multiple mutable references
Henry Rivera
>cs.princeton.edu
>comic sans
Why do universities do this?
Jack Rodriguez
You can still go unsafe or use refcounting afaik. IDK what you are bitching about
Carter Butler
>putting a EOF at the end of you password gives you a root shell is correct operation
I used to think cutting off your balls to learn rust was a mene
Gavin Brown
JUST
Ryder Phillips
Your particular example is a non-problem artificially created by Rust.
Jason Edwards
Yes, it's dangerous and not trival. It's a very good thing your language prevents you from doing that.
Especially when you have so many other ways to do it that will guarantee correctness, RefCell, Rc, using index. And there is also unsafe and raw pointers if you are a chad.
>dangling pointers is non-problem artificially created by Rust
Are you a JS programmer?
Nathan Robinson
C++ doesn't have this problem
Noah Baker
Invalid reference is a problem.
Either C++ is too inefficient or it uses refcounting or you don't know what you are on about.
Protip: it's the last one
Owen Morgan
It's the same problem in C++, idiot. C++ reallocates Vectors and uses references the same way.
Except C++ will allow you to compile it(static checked might warn you but it's not guaranteed nor standard) and your program will crash randomly and you'll spend hours debugging it.
Jason Myers
subscript operators return a reference. Once the capacity of the container is reached, it allocates more memory and copies the values to the new container.
.at() operator basically copies . You don't want that, do you?
Aaron Martin
>rewrite rust
High performance computing graphs
*block your path*
Charles Torres
underrated
Henry White
>operator
function*
Adam Ross
No reference counting here
std::vector foo{1,2,3,4};
std::vector &bar = &foo;
foo.push_back(5); // doesn't actually change the location of vector, but where the data is pointing to
Oliver Miller
Doesn't do the same thing, do they?
Jose Reed
Rust's solution is useless. It basically downgrades the vector into a constant-sized array in every non-trivial case.
Julian Russell
Point of is that the BC would reject that I think. Still have the argument of volatility tho.
Leo Edwards
...
Elijah James
...
Noah Lewis
>Invalid reference is a problem.
It's a problem with Rust programmers who take a reference to the internals of a data structure and then trigger reallocation in the same scope, probably because they're brain-dead.
Hunter Morales
>2018
>still no better C
Gabriel Gray
>.at() operator basically copies .
In what lang? Rust or C++? std::vec::Vec doesn't have a at method according to the rust playground, and T& std::vector::at(size_t index); in C++ doesn't necessarily copy the T since it returns a normal lvalue reference. Don't get your point sry
Nolan Nguyen
>It's a problem with Rust programmers who take a reference to the internals of a data structure and then trigger reallocation in the same scope, probably because they're brain-dead.
So you are one of those c00l boys that never dereferenced an invalid pointer in non trivial project, right?
Colton Rivera
>C++ doesn't necessarily copy the T since it returns a normal lvalue reference.
In that case .at() has the same problem too.
Hunter Morales
>write programm in Scheme
>compile to C with modern compiler
>programms still run within 2 times the speed of raw C
>avoid C++/Rust hell alltogether
Christopher Evans
What problem? What is your point? I don't understand the words that come out of your mouth bro
Julian Fisher
>within 2 times
kek more like 20*
Liam Wilson
With PHPs pcntl_fork, what controls the output? (I.e. output in parent or child thread)
Is it the scheduler?
Aaron Hernandez
What's a good guide / book for python?
Don't feel like going through 1000 pages books or documentation.
Matthew Diaz
Invalid reference? Are you even the same guy I was talking to or did you fly out of nowhere?
Logan Garcia
>dereferenced an invalid pointer
Occasionally, and it's always in cases that Rust has no adequate solution for.
Oliver Fisher
Vector works the exact same way as in Rust.
If you created an reference to data inside vector, you'll get an undefined behavior in C++ or invalid Rust code.
>It basically downgrades the vector into a constant-sized array in every non-trivial case.
It doesn't. It prevents you from undefined behaviors.
I've created a game in Rust that used many vectors for various things that kept changing and never had an issue with borrows. Just use RefCell, Mutex and Arc when needed.
Just because the example is simple, doesn't mean dangling pointer problem is trivial.
Explain the problem.