Let's keep this up, guys!
We need to make sure everybody learns how much of a cancer GNOME is to the Linux ecosystem!
Shit we got on GNOME so far:
blogs.gnome.org
reddit.com
phoronix.com
outreachy.org
Let's keep digging and posting everything we find.
Previous thread:
I mean, I could waste time on all this nonsense.....or I can just use kde......
Well, do go on
i do not like guhnome
Remind me again why the CSD thing is a bad thing?
We had an entire thread about this not too long ago:
(1/2)
First of all, a basic titlebar has some functionality already. It provides a way to identify windows by their title, a way to easily grab and move windows, an indication of whether the window is focused or not, and the usual control buttons (minimize, maximize, close). That is not "empty". If people want that then they should be allowed to.
Now that said, there is indeed an argument against basic titlebars. You could pack more functions into that space, right? That's the argument being used for CSDs, and brainlets just lap it up.
However, in actual reality, CSDs aren't the only way to increase feature density in that space. Another option is to negotiate with the window manager, to request that certain controls be added to the window decoration - this is what KDE's proposed DWD protocol would achieve. Another option is for the window manager to add more functionality to the titlebar automatically.
How can one add more functionality to the titlebar automatically, you ask? Simple: through standardization. Unity and KDE already do this. They move an application's standard application menu (e.g. File, View, Help, etc.) up into the titlebar. This saves vertical space, as you no longer need that entire menu taking up extra space in the window. It works because this menu system is standardized, and it's been a part of the UI paradigm for decades. It requires no extra work on the part of the developer.
(2/2)
Gnome's CSD approach just leads to fragmentation and inconsistency everywhere. Everyone does their own thing. Windows won't look or behave consistently anymore. With CSDs, you lose customization (Want to remove the titlebar entirely? Want to change the order of buttons, or what buttons get shown?), you lose standardization, you lose features, you lose keyboard support, you lose consistency.
Most Gnome applications don't even use standard menus anymore. They just use headerbars instead, drawn on the client, all different from each other. Don't want a giant toolbar with buttons in your face? Too bad, fuck you, this is The Linux Desktop(TM). You can't move the menu around into the titlebar, or up into a global menu panel, or wherever you want, because it's not standardized anymore. You can't search through the menus with a HUD-feature (e.g. in Unity, Mate, i3) because they're not standardized. It's just a shit show.
Add igurublog.wordpress.com
>Gnome devs
>KDE devs
Pic related.
One of the things that I love about KDE is the attempt to standardize everything. They've done pretty well with shortcuts and settings windows, hopefully that bar will follow. It's sort of working already, but not a lot of programs implement it right some (*cough* akregator *cough*) will even crash if you move it to a dock, but it's a valiant effort nonetheless.
The last thing desktop Linux needs are the GNOME devs fucking with the system for no other reason then "people made fun of us for having thick titlebars so now it's the program devs problem"
GNOME and GTK are a scourge on the software world, they need to be gotten rid of.
I cannot believe this.
I-I'm stunned.
Man I really love KDE. How did Gnome manage to become the default on so many distros?
How can I get this blurry effect on the task bar?
So, why do people hate Unity again? It's greatly superior to this bullshit
(((Amazon integration)))
I mean thankfully based Stallmeme told them to fuck off with it, but still.
Early KDE had licensing problems because Qt used to be proprietary, so many distros adopted gnome to avoid those issues.
Plasma theme (metadata.desktop file), and desktop effects (Blur, Background Contrast).
As say Time QT stop had license problems, Debían,Red Had having GNOME 2 as default DE,long term support, ubuntu and fedora takes GNOME as DE and almost every distro, OpenSuse having top notch KDE support.
Gnome 2 was actually pretty good, so lots of distros used it or made their own forks of it.
Consequentially, that means there's loads of programs written for GTK/Gnome.
Once everyone liked Gnome, the devs started smelling their own farts and got explosive diarrhea, the result of which we call Gnome 3.
>feeling an urge to switch desktop since last week
>"maybe it's gnome time"
>gnome-shaming threads starts to pop up 24/7
>mixed feelings starting to grow, really considering switching to plasma
It's that some sort of conspiracy or what?
Install Lumina
No, gnome is just generally really fucking terrible and is a big source of long-term meme problems with linux. KDE is better in pretty much every way except maybe sheer performance. GNOME devs sacrifice every sensible user-experience decision for inexplicable reasons.
>except maybe sheer performance
My shitty Celeron laptop runs Gnome like shit and Plasma well.
...
Fuck off KDEvs, that shit is even worse than GNOME.
xfce would be perfect if it stopped fucking tearing everywhere.
>KDE is better in pretty much every way except maybe sheer performance.
False, KDE uses 350MiB at login and can maintain constant 60FPS in any kind of animation.
Gnome on the other hand craws to a halt when doing any kind of animation and more than 1 fucking GiB at login, it's pathetic.
My laptop is a cheap samsung with a 1007u CPU btw.
I loved Unity's title bar integration for fullscreen programs.
status icons are gay. much easier to just mouse up to the left hand corner and get a view of all open applications. much faster too. who wants a gay status icon tray like windows has.
Join us!
And who wants thumbnails in the filepicker amrite?
please don't use GNOME
not even for the fact that I personally don't like it, just the shit the devs pull with fucking up any sort of attempt at standardization and all kinds of other bullshit (like the transmission running in dock shenanigans)
I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, KDE/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, KDE plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning KDE system made useful by the Plasma desktop, KDE Applications, and KDE Frameworks comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the KDE system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of KDE which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the KDE system, developed by the KDE Community.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the KDE operating system: the whole system is basically KDE with Linux added, or KDE/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of KDE/Linux!
I really love GTK and GTK based desktops but good lord I wish the GNOME devs were not so damn weird.
...
I had sysadmin install ubuntu gnome dor my dev box because i like things to just work. The acrivitt bar is aids. Having to enable the minimize bar and desktop icons in the tweaker is aids
What exactly do you like about GTK? Do you work with it yourself as a developer? Or do your favorite programs just happen to use GTK and that's why?
t. gnome dev
Don't know why you'd ever want to use GNOME when KDE is available, it is becoming clear that Qt is far superior to the broken clusterfuck that is GTK3, devs and users both generally agree on this.
Don't forget this, OP.
yes i get paid millions of dollars to shill gnome on Sup Forums.
Same here. For some reason GNOME kills the craptop and drains the battery. I can hypermile it with MATE or KDE and usually can get a full day's worth of use with plenty of battery left at the end of the day
Yeah, it seems like everyone is moving towards Qt.
>KDE: Qt from the start.
>Budgie -> Budgie-Qt
>LXDE -> LXQt
>Unity -> Unity-Qt
>Linux Torvalds' Subsurface: GTK -> Qt
It makes sense. Qt is cross-platform and fully featured. GTK is the Gnome Toolkit, keeps removing features, and keeps making breaking changes. Why would other DEs want to use the Gnome Toolkit and effectively have a dependency on Gnome?
GNOME has systemd as a dependency. This should be sufficient to relegate it into the trash.
Is Budgie QT already out? This might be time to move away from xfce. I do love xfce but gnome will fuck it over because they don't even know what it is. I don't want to deal with gtk if possible.
>Unity -> Unity-Qt
GNOME killed Unity and his new brother.
Nope. You could try LXQt. It's perfectly stable.
Well, both. It's everywhere. Unless you're using E11 or LXQT or something you probably already have GTK installed. I can write a GTK program and have it layed out, work, and run the same on every desktop. And yet at the same time since everyone has riced their GTK theme the fuck out, my GTK program will still have a different theme on everyones PC, but still work the same. My little GTK programs will fit nicely inside everyones riced out desktops because we're all still speaking GTK. And I can do it in C, in Ruby, in Python, in Guile, or whatever. It works.
But by jesus the GNOME devs sure do seem to be doing everything they can to ruin all this.
I think it's still going by the community though, even if Canonical stopped working on it.
> The GNOME Foundation has run into cash flow problems and as a result is freezing non-essential expenses. The GNOME Foundation has eliminated their cash reserves leading to this dire situation, but should be recoverable in the months ahead. The GNOME Foundation got into this situation through its Outreach Program for Women (OPW) and managing the program (and funds) for a number of other participating organizations.
But user, your GTK program will look absolutely horrible on non-Gnome desktops because of the shit they keep pulling with non-standardization. See gedit
WEW LAD
I absolutely despise running a lot of GTK programs because of shit like this.
I did one of these a while back
>s/Linux/illumos/g
>s/POSIX/the Open Group
>more specific
>Outreach program for women
If this doesn't convince you to use KDE instead of GNOME then I don't know what will
You mean the six different competing attempts to standardize everything.
KDE is what happens when you take German autism and fail to focus it on anything.
Goddamn, what a difference. Now if only KDE let me span a god damn wallpaper across multiple monitors.
>using either of those pieces of trash
Just, like, install a fucking compositor then
>mfw I realize Red Hat is paying its developers hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to remove features
You'd think that but this is the Arch shill board.
Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be faster to port Vim and a GPU driver stack to Plan 9 or Redox and let Red Hat finish eating their seed corn.
>redox
no
Submit bug report.
Guys, I think I finaly figured out why Gnome's logo is a foot: It's because they walk all over their users.
ITT buttblasted KDE user
Wait there's a unity desktop made with qt?
They deliberately don't support it as a design choice which really rustles my jimmies.
Unity 8 was going to be made with Qt.. Then Canonical dropped it.
>GNOMEluminati inside Canonical killed Unity because it was going to drop GTK
Can we set GTK and GNOME on fire so even major distros wanted to drop it?
Yes, this is what new versions of Ubuntu could have been.
youtube.com
They didn't like that Canonical decided to fork Wayland (Mir) and attacked Ubuntu as much as they could, in the end. Mark fired all his employees working on Unity and now Ubuntu is just another sad distro that ships with unfriendly GNOME.
Start some SJW tier drama, that would do it. I'm sure there's some under the surface.
There are still many serious bugs in Qt regarding Wayland and HiDPI. It's blocking a bunch of things KDE and LxQt and Sway and Qutebrowser all want.
Fuck, that looks so much nicer than Unity 7.
I feel kinda bad. I didn't really like unity, since it felt kinda slow on my system, but Gnome 3 is fucking dogshit, and now that I'm seeing what could have been I really want to take back everything bad I said about Unity.
What window manager are you using?
That's what I said.
Take the picture you want (preferably larger than the screens combined) and open it in gwenview.
Hit crop, and advanced if it wasn't on already.
Then you can crop it exactly like you want it to be. When you are done, set the desktop for each screen.
If it doesn't align properly, take a screenshot and use that to align it if needed (like if you have a vertical monitor in the mix).
It doesn't take much time and it is very easy. Now if you want to tell them about bugs, complain that KDE can forget these settings somehow.
Say you have a 3 monitor setup when your laptop is docked, but only one screen when not docked.
Basic gestalt?
I'm really agains using GNOME right now as DE... That's why I've been a XFCE user for a long time, they don't do bullshit like that
Under GNOME the equivalent action is setting wallpaper to spanned mode in tweak tool, opening a file in eog, and choosing set as desktop background. It's significantly nicer.
Gnome is the systemd of DE.
Guys, just for your information, that's not a GNOME developer. That's a troll.
You've all been trolled. By a redditor.
Kudos for being retarded enough to not notice at all.
GNOME is absolute trash. If it weren't for all the people trashing on Unity at least Ubuntu users wouldn't have to suffer with GNOME 3 as default. KDE, XFCE and MATE are all above it and the only reason people should use GNOME is because they can't somehow have access to any other DE available.
KDE is the future. It has gotten to the point where it has much more features and it's much more stable than a year ago. It even beats GNOME in RAM usage. It used to be where KDE was the one that took so much RAM and crashed so much. No longer.
True or false, the fact of the matter is Guhnome is trash.
>people are finally getting tired of gnome's bullshit
About fucking time. I expected this to happen when they dropped tray icon support.
Topicons Plus works so well everyone who needs tray icons just installs it. This is worse since you can't patch around it.
Yeah, but you shouldn't need to install third party extensions just to get basic functionality that many programs depend on.
>/gnomegate/
You could come up with even more older post :^)
Few months needed for a canonical fork because they needs desktop icons. Gnome is fucked by anyone, but currently their gtk3 api is stable as i know and qt has similar shitshow in the past, but still better choice if you want crossplatform shit.
Arent extentions in gnome written in JavaScript?
GNOME was never meant to be a full featured desktop environment. GNOME is a framework for creating desktop environments out of javascript modules.
All this titlebars nonsense is stupid. Be figured out exactly how big titlebars should be over 2 decades ago.
Look at that. Normie friendly title bars, only as big as the title and window controls.
Mostly this haiku is awesome. Triple boot it on my main PC
NeXT, Be, and Amiga were fucking incredible and its a shame they don't get more recognition today.
WindowMaker is glorious, probably one of my favorite "traditional' WMs, Haiku/Be is beautiful and as I said earlier, I love a lot of the new UX conventions they tried, and Amiga…well anyone who used VideoToaster loves amiga
The fact that OSX is still going as strong as it is stands testament to how fucking good NeXT was. I had a NeXT cube in the 90s and its honestly one of my favorite computers of all time. Even in the post-jobs "turn everything into iOShit" era, they haven't managed to completely fuck up OSX
>no minimize button
>is the pointer in the right side of the screen? Fuck you. Move it all the way to the left to move a window
>resized windows have a giant empty space on the right or a giant, ugly bar
>asymmetrical design looks like ass most of the time