*saves modern programming*

*saves modern programming*

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=ZHqFrNyLlpA
itanium-cxx-abi.github.io/cxx-abi/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

C++ will always stay the best

*stays irrelevant*

>modern programming
He doesn't use a garbage collector.

>garbage collector
That's what it's saving modern programming from.

*sues you for (not) having a CoC*

Garbage collectors are the most useful invention in computing history. There's no reason to use a manual memory management language, except for a small subset of cases. Nowadays there are languages out there like Nim and Crystal, that are garbage collected, safe, and fast as fuck.

.unwrap().unwrap().unwrap()

GC will always have a speed penalty. Non GC languages remain critical for things like kernels, firmware, cryptography, browser engines, etc. That's a big part of why Rust exists at all. Mozilla needed something safer than C, but without a GC, to reduce defect density.

...

>ANYTHING I DON'T LIKE IS SOY

source?

This.

Rust is LITERALLY soy. Go read their submissive CoC.

They also force you to "agree" to their CoC just to submit any kind of bug report or participate at fucking all.

Can't we keep this mental retardation from interfering with interesting discussions?

Not until the literal children over at Rust realize we're all adults and don't need to sign a fucking social contract to interact.

C++ and Rust don't have shit to do with 90% of programming.

*blocks your path*

...

>GC
>no matter how tunable
get out

> Nowadays there are languages out there like Nim and Crystal, that are garbage collected, safe, and fast as fuck.

Or you know... Java/Kotlin. JVM has the best GC tech on the market.

a sweet soyboys are here :) now get out kids

>fixing the issue that is THE actal reason why Sup Forums has been so bad in the last 5 years
It's reddit, it's SJW, it's Sup Forums, it's yurifags, it's footfags, it's niggers, it's traps, it's consolefags, it's pcfags, whatever it is, every board has its scapegoats, and any discussion that is even vaguely related gets derailed instantly.

>JVM has the best GC tech on the market
I can't tell if you're trying to be ironic or just have no idea what you're talking about

Go's GC isn't even good

is there JVM language that doesn't eat all your RAM?

>Can't we keep this mental retardation from interfering with interesting discussions?
Rust is a form of mental retardation. You seriously want to discuss things like adults while needing to enforce a CoC on a community of people?

>literally rusty and crusty
>c-come on, fellow goy, give it a chance

I also heard that JVM has the best GC.

>'''safe''' languages + proprietary software = stalin's dream
Enjoy never being able to mod anything ever again.

Concurrent GC with only sub-millisecond pausetimes.
It is very good.
There is only one GC that is better in Java I have heard (but only works on one platform on linux), but that doesn't matter since go allows your data to be aligned more tightly and reduce references to an utmost minimum, which is 1000x more useful, especially for reducing GC usage.
So in the end go wins.

It is when there are literal soy boys wearing dresses and demanding anyone who isn't ideologically pure be exiled.

I'm a brainlet, I admit it. But the more a I read, the more I think that GC languages are much more advantageous to every kind of application that I develop or would want to develop.

the floor is generics
(btw does anyone have that pic?)

go's gc has high overhead because pauses are short but frequent, also it doesn't compact, it's literally 70s crap

>Zing® is the only JVM that uses Azul’s unique C4 (Continuously Concurrent Compacting Collector) to provide pauseless garbage collection operation. C4 is able to concurrently compact the Java heap and to allow the application to continue to execute while remapping of memory is performed. This patented solution allows applications to completely separate heap size from response times for predictable, consistent Java GC behavior. If your Java application has unacceptable pauses, try Zing free, and see how much it can improve application metrics out of the box, with no tuning.

Though I don't know how much of this is just the company's marketing.

Sounds worse than ARC.

this sure will but, 90% of programming is business shit where speed is not critical but safety and development speed is

If Rust is to make it in the industry as a low/high level language, then it NEEDS to abide STRICTLY by the C calling conventions and it NEEDS to be able to call to and from C and assembly functions without dealing with ANY sort of foreign function interface wrapper. C is successful in that regard because it is WELL defined in the translation directly to assembly.

Also abolish the CoC.

Except that C doesn't define a calling convention. OS/compiler/hardware vendors do.

>I love CoCs!

fuck off shill

>If Rust is to make it in the industry as a low/high level language, then it NEEDS to abide STRICTLY by the C calling conventions and it NEEDS to be able to call to and from C and assembly functions without dealing with ANY sort of foreign function interface wrapper
Not going to happen, they're high on MUH MODULES

There's actually a C++ ABI

Rust's desire to elevate politics over programming is what made it DOA. It will never be anything more than a niche language used by a few enthusiasts, most associated with the Rust team. Quite simply, no business is going to risk having to rely on or even be associated with a volatile community infused so heavily with mandates for far left political correctness. There are too many other paths one can take that don't involve the same level of risk.

After the trannie boot incident I'm avoiding any team that has leftists within it. They almost took down the FSF.

>except for a small subset of cases
like developing cars, rockets, missils, submarines, iot or satelites?
Pretty much nothing at all and this is not like every OS on this planet is developed in asm/C.
Don't trust what you don't have under control, this is the only sane approach when you work on billions dollars projects.

Garbage collector is bullshit, it makes you write stupid code...

But good C ide would be better than fucking new langluage.

how's rust for gamedev

>how's rust for gamedev
It's pointless, game development requires minimal memory management, everything is preallocated prior to running an engine. Only thing that matters is raw speed. This is why C++ is popular.

>the C calling conventions [for each architecture]
You know what the fuck I mean.

"systems language" has become a meme. Everyone knows the only system language is C. Everything else is a gimmick.

But isn't rust as fast as C++?
GC is pretty bad for games, even the slightest stutter is noticeable and makes the game shit.

I want my software to be good in certain aspect, I really don't have to care about political party of creator...

But....

I haven't seen software in rust.

doesn't rust have a good C FFI? Not quite on par with C++, but without any of the marshaling you're complaining about.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZHqFrNyLlpA
I guess that this is slightly relevant.

C++ ABI is a joke in terms of dynamic linking and really only serves for static linking. Even for big name C++ DLL libraries, I haven't seen anyone mad enough to not wrap their functions with extern "C" Implementing the plain C ABI would be enough to be pretty much be inter-operable with anything on a dynamic level.

everythi...

yes open world of 60GB is in your ram...

You don't need to write changes of openworld to disk etc...


You dumb.

>But isn't rust as fast as C++?
No, the Rust team is constantly trying to prove itself in the compiler competition, but if you think of a new problem they haven't seen before, Rust always loses out to C++ by a significant margin. And eventually when someone competent comes around to writing optimal code in C or C++, Rust's pussy gets smashed time and time again.

The actual structures that are loaded into are preallocated you fucking nigger. They use memory pools, they never use dynamic allocation. Your Rust ideology is deprecated

Fucking this. GC is for code monkeys who haven't gone into real and system critical engineering.

That's the fault of Microsoft. MSVC is the only major C++ compiler that doesn't support the Itanium ABI. Huge C++ libraries (e.g. Qt) on every other platform have zero issues with ABI stability.

You're true up to a point. The only problem is that nobody has ever had the balls to make another language with an absolutely straightforward assembly calling convention that is also 100% C compatible.

>Itanium ABI

No, they don't have "huge saves" with destruction model...

I do not have ideology retards, stuff can't be ideal, because you fucked up, and I don't want to kill you ATP.

Yes, I saw memory pools, which takes fucking 1minute to turn of like on Leage of Legends, no. They usually do stuff that sucks, and little people control Levels.

Can you post using actually cohesive sentences and grammar? You sound like a markov chain bot.

Rust just hat the sweet point. C is pain to work with, C++ design is pure madness and Java is slow and eats your RAM (especially for big tree data structures like DOM manipulations). All languages with same target came after Rust and did not get even Mozilla-level backed.

Rust literally cannot be a proper system language without a proper and rigorous assembly level calling convention, which requires you to pretty much give up everything your language had that makes it "safe"

this one?
Static dispatch brought by generics would help. Go already reduces allocations by escape analysis but because interface types are dynamically dispatches they tend to be enforced on heap.

THIS THIS THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS

It was originally designed for Itanium processors but it's defined in terms of a C ABI and is therefore not specific to any particular architecture.
Every extant compiler but MSVC supports it, many platform vendors officially endorse it. The ARM EABI for C++ uses the Itanium ABI with minor tweaks for example.
Please do some research. C++ ABI stability is not the issue it was in the 90s, and the only reason it may still be an issue can be summed up in 4 letters.

>Static dispatch brought by generics would help.
This is exactly what Rust does and it's an excellent model, much more efficient than e.g. what C++ does with virtual functions.

someone should tell the Redox guys they can't do what they're doing

There is more to ABI stability/compatibility than just function calling convention. It's also class layout, which, oh fuck, C++ doesn't even FUCKING DEFINE one officially, let alone derived calls or v-tables or templates etc.

>i am a brainlet that cant into c
That's what I read

Would you use Rust if it did not have a CoC?

Rust has extern "C" to use C's calling conventions at the assembly level.

You could make an OS in C++, doesn't mean you fucking should or that a trillion problems won't creep up all the fucking time.

No because I don't actually know how to program. But that's irrelevant because Rust's CoC exists and makes it a useless language.

>calling convention
>class layout
>vtables
>templates
itanium-cxx-abi.github.io/cxx-abi/
All of these things are well defined, user.

Given that Rust is basically built around the CuCk, it's like asking "would you have voted Ubuntu if he wasn't a nigger" or "would you have voted Killary if she didn't have a vagina"

Still unfit for system programming or games.

Mate nobody fucking wants to implement C++. It's too much fucking work to get your head around. C's ABIs for pretty much every fucking platform only needs to define struct layout and register usage for function calls, and that's IT, and that's ALL you need.

that means rust is the perfect language for you, mozilla will hire you as a technology evangelist and you can give conference talks about diversity

>It's too much fucking work to get your head around
No, it's too much fucking work to get YOUR head around

Which is why there exosts a portable C++ ABI that can be layered on top of an arbitrary C ABI. This is why every compiler and every OS supports it, and why vendors endorse it. As soon as you have a C ABI, you have a C++ ABI.

Man, it's like you're not even listening to me.

>even the slightest stutter is noticeable and makes the game shit.

Alot more games use GC than you really think.
Any unreal engine 4 game ever, and starcraft 2 use it for example.

>muh complexity makes me smart
fucking neck yourself

> people who don't know the state of Java's GC talking about Java's GC

Java 9 by default uses G1 GC which is really nice optimization between throughput and pause times. It also has a new """pauseless""" GC you can use. It is laughable that people think Golang's GC can magically achieve submilisecond pause times without any downsides.

I didn't call myself smart, I only called you an idiot
McFucking leave the gene pool

Programs with manually managed memory don't compact. GCs actually do that.

What the FUCK did he mean by this

Then use fucking Go or Python or Node.JS or a JVM/CLR language for that. Nobody serious is saying Rust should replace all application programming languages, only be used as a "safety upgrade" for C/C++ where the use case can't tolerate GC.

compact all you like, forced indirection in GCd langs is still going to trash locality

Garbage collectors typically move objects in memory during to defragment the heap. Has beneficial properties for cache utilization and keeps allocation extremely cheap.

>i have no fucking idea how a computer works

...

>made by people too dumb to write in C++ without leaking memory everywhere
no thanks

is there any large c++ program that doesn't leak constantly

Whole desktop operating systems?