SIMP VS TRAD 繁體 vs 簡體 What would appear to be the future for traditional? Will HK and Macau inevitably have to switch to retard characters in 2047, or has this change already started in the generation currently at school?
I figure Taiwan will never willingly switch, but the mainstream view today seems to be that TW will inevitably be incorporated into PRC within the next 20 years
I wonder if any mainlanders can comment on the possibility of China as it gets more educated and wealthy in the next 20 years or so, realising the cringeworthyness and cultural revolution feel of the simplified characters, will gradually switch back to using traditional? Or maybe if the CCP loses control. Or is this a permanent change so to speak.
I wonder whether something like the Japs' version of simplified characters, which are much less extreme, only simplifying a small number the most complex of characters such as 龜 and generally doing it in a way which pays attention to the aesthetics of the characters so you don't end up with bastardisations like 广 or 么 would be a good compromise all parties could come to together, or is it more likely PRC will just enforce their system on everyone else
If so, should everyone just start trying to stomach using the vulgar characters day to day to prepare for this
>I wonder whether something like the Japs' version of simplified characters, which are much less extreme, only simplifying a small number the most complex of characters such as 龜 and generally doing it in a way which pays attention to the aesthetics of the characters so you don't end up with bastardisations like 广 or 么 would be a good compromise all parties could come to together, or is it more likely PRC will just enforce their system on everyone else
I've never heard anyone praise Japanese kanji before, good job.
John Martin
1 as it is 2 no 3 no
you are wrong, very wrong there are a lot of languages that are being replaced but traditional is not one of them, it is just a font practically, there is really no difference, and mainland actually do print in traditional too sometimes it's not a mandatory thing really
Eli Howard
No, simplified characters make the language easier to write and read and there's nothing wrong with them.
Carter Bailey
Yeh but riting Inglish lyk this wood make it eesier to reed and rite 2 but no1 wood stand 4 it
Which is essentially what they did - merging multiple distinct characters into one like 頭髮的髮 發現的發 both into 发
Christopher Taylor
>retard characters
You mean traditional characters?
1. HK already teaches simplified and mandarin most of the time. 2. It will switch completely in 2047. 3. Taiwan already speaks Mandarin. Furthermore, most Taiwan Chinese are learning simplified.
There will always be some differences, which is good, but mother China always brings back her flock.
Alexander Ross
This is sort of true. To educated people it's close to a font but for an ordinary Chinese it can be pose problems. New tech makes it easier to communicate though since everyone is basically carrying around a character dictionary in their phones.
I wonder if the PRC actually kind of like the fact that traditional characters are still used in Taiwan? but maybe a Taiwanese can tell you more.
William Robinson
>體 just look at the insane amount of strokes it requires compared to the simplified counterpart.
Leo Bennett
People actually did want to simplify the English language in a similar way to what you are describing in the 19th century.
Benjamin Carter
>mother China always brings back her flock So are you saying that Chinese people are literal sheep?
Caleb Green
You are retarded for even attempting to make such an analogy.
Also, lots of Mainland Chinese know traditional. Lots of island Chinese know simplified.
I assume they'll just keep it similar to how it is. By 2047 China will be far more liberal and open that it is now.
Tyler Collins
if you went to high school in china you know they have to learn traditional to read some classics, i don't see why foreigners get so high and mighty about it
Leo Garcia
What are you even talking about? The official character system of Taiwan is traditional, as is HK.
HK teaches Mandarin to level that the US teaches Spanish.
Jose Adams
Sheep don't get shot if they try leaving.
Also, most people are essentially sheep user.
Exactly. Simplified has its flaws, but only autists think it is worse than traditional.
Austin Howard
The official language of HK and Taiwan is Mandarin, and they teach simplified a lot.
About 75% of HK and 90% of Taiwan can speak Mandarin. Although I doubt they do it very well.
Hence, exactly what I wrote in my original post.
Parker Harris
Simplified characters were designed to remove religious/cultural significations in the characters. In reality the "less strokes" thing was used to cover it up.
John Russell
>most Taiwan Chinese are learning simplified lol no
Zachary Flores
...
Luis Jenkins
>it's another China memes thread
Jack Gomez
It's a perfect analogy though. The government just decided to make a whole bunch of shorthand abbreviations official.
As for becoming more liberal and open, is that a given? Given that ever since Xi came to power, he has been pushing extremely hard in the other direction ie reducing the quota numbers of foreign movies and TV shows, banning "open admiration of western values" in domestic productions, etc etc
Grayson Foster
no, that's demonstrably false because the first to simply drastically were the japanese decades before the prc who were actually picking up unfinished work from republican times to suceed the may fourth movement in modernization
pleb
Jaxson Johnson
>It's a perfect analogy though
No it is not.
A word formed out of latin characters being shortened != an ideogram having fewer strokes to express the same idea.
You are simply retarded for trying to make this analogy.
Andrew Gomez
All european languages went from retardedly difficult like latin, ancient greek and sanskrit, to simple ones like english and french and nobody suffered. It helps the population to be more literate. Complex, subtle thoughts can be expressed with any kind of language, so there's no real reason to cling to old times. Koreans decision to abandon dumbass characters and switch to a simple, comprehensive alphabet is a cultural achievement, even though they did it out of butthurt for Japanese, japs and chinks should stop fucking around and follow suit
Ryan Lee
>As for becoming more liberal and open, is that a given? Considering the fact China is far more liberal and open than it was in 1976, yes.
>Given that ever since Xi came to power, he has been pushing extremely hard in the other direction [citation needed] >ie reducing the quota numbers of foreign movies and TV shows, [citation needed] >banning "open admiration of western values" in domestic productions [citation needed]
A lot of memes in your post. It seems that you are just another user butthurt about China, but that is ignorant about it.
Bentley Sullivan
it's not the same simplification isn't simplifying the language per se, it's simplifying the writing process of the characters, the language is the same
Josiah Long
Lol not a single school in Taiwan teaches simplified. As for HK, obviously no school in their general cantonese courses teach it currently, but apparently some schools may be using them in the 'mandarin' language class which they can elect to do. My question was more as to the future, whether this is a change ppl will hold their noses and say 'the economic benefit outweighs the negatives', or, as I suspect, whether people in HK will hold even more steadfastly than they have in the past against what they would see as cultural imperialism. Taiwan obviously will never accept them unless invaded by the PRC.
I am aware many educated mainlanders can read traditional perfectly, which is why I want to ask these types of educated mainlanders whether they see on the horizon a move back to traditional when more of China becomes educated, given that usually when somebody knows both character sets, they clearly favour traditional
Julian Lopez
>reducing the quota numbers of foreign movies and TV shows
You can't be following events in China too closely. Wow.
Brody Green
>Lol not a single school in Taiwan teaches simplified. [citation needed]
I taught at one that did.
>whether this is a change ppl will hold their noses and say 'the economic benefit outweighs the negatives',
That's literally what Taiwan and HK have done. Hence Mandarin is the official language.
>whether they see on the horizon a move back to traditional when more of China becomes educated,
They are not going back to traditional lmao.
If anything, as we can see in HK, they'll forget traditional completely and just switch to English.
Ryder Edwards
Again, the average HKer can speak Mandarin as well as the average American who took Spanish in High School can speak Spanish.
Taiwan does not officially teach simplified characters in schools, nor does it allow it's use in government. Taiwanese people consider simplified characters to be barbaric.
Aiden Lewis
>Umm, you are not aware of this
Because it isn't true.
Find me citations for these claimsXi has been promoting Chinese values and demoting Western values, but there has been no decrease in foreign move qoutas or ban of "open admiration for Western values".
Carter Evans
>I taught at one that did. which school is that?
Jordan Turner
Oh so you taught in a school for foreigners or international school? Obviously in the domestic school system they only teach classes in traditional. As for Hong Kong, the official languages are 'Chinese' and 'English'. The specific varieties are no specified, although by default the standard for chinese in HK is currently cantonese with traditional characters. I wanted to ask someone who actually knows basic facts about China as to whether there is any chance of this changing in future
Austin Phillips
>traditional chinese user want's to say "I like that car" >simplified chinese user buys it and has sex with traditional character user's wife in the back seat before he can finish the 9000 strokes required to write out that thought.
Bentley Ortiz
>mandarin is like Spanish
20% of Americans know some Spanish. 75% of HK know some Mandarin. How are these two even comparable?
The better analogy is knowledge of English in Germany.
Also, there are multiple schools that have simplified courses in Taiwan. I taught at one.
Sebastian Nguyen
>Taiwanese people consider simplified characters to be barbaric. where do you people learn this shit?
Thomas Martin
I don't want to be doxxed. A simple google search can find you hundreds of simplified courses in Taiwan.
Mine was a private school in Taipei though. My mother is from there.
Angel Long
Umm dude this stuff has been very widely commentated on
Im not quite sure why you are commenting on a China related thread if you don't have the faintest idea as to what's going on there
Evan Collins
So as someone interested in learning Chinese what writing system should I learn?
If you say "both", then which should I learn first?
Chase Anderson
You just totally misunderstand all of the news you read probably because you get it from insanely biased sources that intentionally mislead you.
Julian Clark
Simplified didn't come out of nowhere. it just made already existing shorthand characters official.
Kayden Hughes
Umm..
The hysterical reaction you get from HKers or Taiwanese when they see simplified characters is legendary. It's been a huge issue in the last few years with shop signs aimed at Mainland tourists provoking massive outpours of public rage and discussion of "殘體字" etc among the public
Ryan Torres
...You should learn simplified unless you plan to live in Taiwan and only read Taiwanese media... You will have a difficult time even finding a place that will teach you traditional.
Carson Garcia
nice source bro
Julian Cruz
You've already revealed you get your news from exclusively from sources that just hate mainland China.
Jackson Scott
>“love” 愛 turns to 爱, which indicates 爱无心, love without a heart. >"to lead" 導 turns to 导 removing "Dao" removing the religious connotations of leading.
Logan Stewart
Nowhere did this state a "ban on all Western values" as you originally claimed, or a decrease in the foreign movie quota.
Now go off yourself.
If you have an axe to grind with China, at least have a factual criticism.
Juan Thompson
Written by Mainland Chinese? Whether a source 'hates' something or not doesn't change the fact that a policy exists. I'm not sure I understand your point lol.
>The official language of HK and Taiwan is Mandarin
The official languages of HK are Chinese and English, with "Chinese" being purposely ambiguous.
James Johnson
Wow, and Er of Erzi (for son, I don't have a character set installed) turns into a child without a body! It's just legs, my god. Ai removed the 4 stroke "heart" but it didn't remove the "friendship character" and the simplifcation of dao turns 10 strokes into 2. Of course simplification removes some of the component characters. You're drinking some koolaid on this my man.
Andrew Williams
>The official language of HK is Mandarin uh, no, it's Cantonese
Jace Ramirez
but only the past few years due to certain political stuff
simplification is known since the 50s, they just want to mix in the characters to inflame their hatred
Evan Murphy
>one anecdote is representative of an evil masterplan
First of all, [citation needed] Second, that doesn't even make sense. How is it removing religious connotations?
There are literally thousands of characters in simplified solely used for religious purposes.
Mainland Chinese that fled to California because of political persecution*
Just because I am a white American doesn't mean I'll not hate my country.
Elijah Evans
Because it's giving you a skewed perception of reality. It's like reading Breitbart all the time or something, while also not living in America. You may not get this reference as an Australian.
Kayden Baker
Hmmm who is correct here
Luke Myers
>ambiguous English is subordinate to Chinese to Hong Kong
Isaiah Roberts
>"close relations between family" turns from 親 to 亲 implying a family that one does not see. >There's nothing political about that all
Benjamin Cruz
I have never been to HK but I would be shocked if, even now, the official language was mandarin (as in putonghua)
>(1) The English and Chinese languages are declared to be the official languages of Hong Kong for the purposes of communication between the Government or any public officer and members of the public and for court proceedings. (Amended 51 of 1995 s. 2) >(2) The official languages possess equal status and, subject to the provisions of this Ordinance, enjoy equality of use for the purposes set out in subsection (1).
Ryan Bailey
Chinese is the dominant language in Hong Kong.
English, while being a dominant language to all other languages in the area, is dominated by Chinese when compared.
Robert Davis
>親 They just took the right side out and left the more meaningful radical... where are you pulling this from?
Adrian Moore
Yeah but why are you not being clear about the dialect they are using. Sure they might call it "Zhongwen" but do they mean Guangdonghua, the Cantonese language, or Hanyu, the Language of the Han people i.e. mandarin, a.k.a putonghua, the common language?
Thomas Hall
>Arguing about characters you can't even read. >Has no idea about what the significance of the word "Way" means in China.
Bentley Rodriguez
there is another way to interpret it 亲 actually means personal or intimate, with another character it means intimates, ie family and because it refers to in-timates naturally you cannot see them for in is within
not political
Levi Foster
Doesn't really matter because they're all part of the Chinese language family.
But since you insist and press me to answer this question for you, I'll tell you that Cantonese is the informally recognized official language of Hong Kong. But Putonghua, or as you call Hanyu, is the de jure official language of the region.
John Brown
Then why leave Dao in Zhidao, would they not also want to remove the spiritual connotations from the word for knowledge?
Gavin Evans
It removes "見" meaning to see.
Jackson Cooper
>If you are a complete beginner then your course will be in Traditional method
Either way the natives learn traditional characters and so did everyone at MTC where I studied. Even those of my classmates who had previously studied simplified characters had to use traditional ones instead. Literally nobody use simplified characters in Taiwan, with a only selected few ones being somewhat common, but that's like 0.01%.
Logan Gomez
Ah you mean a school teaching Chinese as a foreign language, not an actual school ie a elementary or secondary school. Also, interestingly enough, on the site you provided, the teacher is writing on the board in traditional, interestingly enough with one Japanese simplified kanji (經) as well! All the other pictures appear to use traditional solely. I'm sure some of these schools do offer special simplified courses for foreigners who wish to go to Mainland China but obviously none of the actual schools in Taiwan ie teaching kids use simplified lol!
Adrian Morris
I never said they removed religious words, I said they removed religious connotation in characters.
Jack Nguyen
it's not a coincidence because characters used to have many parts, the radical, the sound association and the meaning so if you cannot remove the radical you cannot remove the sound there is not much left, the meaning is not purely in the charater themselves you know, they are logic based not meaning based this is why 1 character can stand for many things take the word 長 and 长 same meanings, long grow and leader the only difference is the top of which has no meaning by itself
Jordan Jones
>HK already teaches simplified and mandarin most of the time
No, Hong Kong never uses simplified chinese and Mandarin to teach. Stop misleading other anons.
t. Hong Kong form 6 student
Charles Foster
Traditional writing is used to keep the retards out. Simplified writing was literally invented and promoted in an attempt to bring the retards in. Trust an American to think retards participating is a good thing - your country's founded on it.
Spastic Americans don't count as "people".
John Diaz
門 言 見 貝 產
门 讠 见 贝 产
Simplified chinese is utter shit
Jordan Lewis
私は簡体を見ると憂鬱になります(笑)
Isaiah Richardson
>讠 radicals are not characters
Blake Sanders
>Native speaker of English, one of the most orthographically irregular languages, is against simplifying writing