Just what it is Forth?

>Just what it is Forth?
To quote wikipedia: "Forth is an imperative stack-based computer programming language and environment originally designed by Charles "Chuck" Moore."

>Why should I use it?
Forth is an EXTREMELY extensible language, while still being low level and known for its memory efficiency. This makes it so it often competes with C and assembly in terms of perfomance, while still being a joy to program.

>Great, but how should I go about learning it?
Well, we generally recommend you read Starting Forth (forth.com/starting-forth/) and play around with gforth to get a hang of the basics. (or repl.it/languages/forth ig)


Join the discord if you have any questions or just want to hangout with fellow Forth enthusiasts: discord.gg/z2szGQG

Other urls found in this thread:

repl.it/languages/forth
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_system
complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/why-forth
hackaday.com/2017/01/27/forth-the-hackers-language/
merlintec.com/download/color.html
colorforth.github.io/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

my favorite snippet of Forth code

Friendly reminder that processor

What's with all these forth threads?

Idk, Forth naturally attracts autists ig :/

but do you think the autists are right? I can't even figure out how forth works.

Yeah, I personally love forth (I'm the OP kek).
The only problem with forth now a days is that modern CPUs are almost all optimized for C, so it ends up hurting forth a good bit.

Join our discord and I'll go through some code with you if you want senpai.

That doesn't answer my question. how can I use forth?

W-what do you mean?
How do you try it out?
Well installing gforth is probably your best bet. You can also try: repl.it/languages/forth

Install forth and go for it

>Discord
Use IRC you fucking mongloid retard

Discord servers are easier to manage and they seem to engage the members more than just IRC.
We'll keep it on Discord for now, thanks.

Use IRC you fucking mongloid retard

Fight me, you nigerian.

Say that to me on IRC and not on Sup Forums and see what happens motherfucker

1v1 me on aim map on cs1.6 you gross man of indian descent

oh thanks repl.it works

>This based guy comes up to you and deletes all your code, claiming it's all BLOAT and that you don't need it anyways
What do you do?

If you don't fuck up on chapter 3 of this book you are a god.

How can I even start using forth? What can I make in it?

Forth is so minimal oh my gosh

Looks like shit. Unless you're one of those people who use obscure and esoteric OS's and languages just for the sake of seeming like an outsider amongst many sheep, it's not worth using.

>so minimal
In other words, it can't do shit.

Why is Sup Forums mentioning Forth a lot lately? Did I miss something?

>everything different and new that I don’t like is just a hipster fad
Boy, imagine being this much of a pajeet.


In other words, it’s not bloated and expects you to do more than just link up someone else’s work.

The forth way is to create programs or even entire systems that are truly specialized for their application.


A few anons that really like forth have created a group and we’re now spreading the word about our favorite language.

Daily reminder that gcc stands for: gay C coders

Forth and stack based programming works fine for scripting an RPN calculator, but why would you want to do this on a computer?
You'd have to re-learn programming almost entirely from scratch since it's so radically different from procedural languages.

>Forthfags use Discord

it's really not that different desu.
When properly factorized, forth should basically read like a string of actions which implicitly pass arguments to each other.


Eh we might switch to IRC for the simplicity it provides. I just have to pick a non gnu'd server.

How unsafe is this? Is it common for people to accidentally make huge vulnerabilities in their software like in C?

It has no compiler checking at all (although you could certainly add it yourself if you wanted to).
And no not really. Forth code is usually extremely well factorized and tested. Chuck often rewrites his code dozens of times to get the most out of it.

I'd say it's much safer in a practical sense simply because of the highly factorized style of programming that it encourages. Complex and difficult to read code is truly hated by all Forthers.

>Starting Forth
What do I read if I'm not a brainlet? I know how stack and postfix notation works, I want to learn about the language.

Trust me, Starting Forth is small but dense in information. The later chapters discuss how the compiler works and how you can modify it. The hard part of learning the basics of Forth isn't the syntax, it's learning about the Forth system itself.

Get in the discord if you get lost desu.

>trying to force the Fortran meme
oblig. Turing tarpit

>doesn't even know what language we're talking about
>calls anything he doesn't understand a Turing tarpit

dumb wojak poster

There was no other image capable of describing your retardation. I actually googled "wojak low IQ".

>wojak poster excuses
see

>what language we're talking about
Crap you're right! I was reading a thread about the language starting with the same 4 letters that isn't completely irrelevant, and mistyped.

>mfw dumb millenials don't know how influential Forth was back in the 80's.
Maybe you should google the language you're shittalking a bit before posting

>mfw autismos think relics of their time are just as appropriate nowadays
Is this the new fad for the resident lispcucks?
We've moved on, you damn hipster.

>get with the times grandpa, lmao xD
Forth definitely still has a place in low memory applications. I'm not going to tell you to use it for everything and anything, but the micro-controllers of today are perfectly suited for Forth, I have no doubt about that.

>still has a place in low memory applications. I'm not going to tell you to use it for everything and anything
Quite reasonable, actually. That's all I was looking for - a less "HYPE-UHH", more "here are its strengths (IMHO), here are its weaknessess" type of post.

Argumentum ad populum: so who's actually using it?

In the 80's? Can you name few modern applications made in Forth? Something really useful besides mental jerking off? I'm fluent in a couple of languages already, I'm doing it professionally. Why would I start my next project in Forth?
It's a serious question. I don't want to reinvent the wheel, I want to be productive.

BTW I'm just adding questions to what you said. I'm not contradicting you

Meant for this guy

Chuck still uses it for all of his projects.
Most actively maintained Forth's out there right now are proprietary and quite expensive, since they're usually used in highly specialized embedded systems. Because of this, it's actually quite hard to say who's using Forth. We know Chuck's company has several clients and there are other companies still selling Forth's, so I'd say it still has its niche.

You also have the meme examples like NASA or the bootloader for SPARC systems, that kind of stuff.


You clearly don't get it. Forth is currently used for embedded systems, it's not a language well suite for developing applications in register based CPUs that are highly optimized for C (hint: x86).

Nigger, I'm not telling you to write your next shitty website in Forth or some shit. I'm saying Forth is a very interesting language with real use cases.

>It's a serious question. I don't want to reinvent the wheel, I want to be productive.
You clearly don't work in low level programming. In many of these systems you have to ""reinvent the wheel"" because cobbing together premade libraries and calling it a day simply won't do.

NASA uses it

>Most actively maintained [X]'s out there right now are proprietary and quite expensive, since they're usually used in [LEGACY] systems
the same can be said about COBOL

A programming books with tits on it?

Huuu I never talked about legacy systems in my post, I talked about embedded systems, learn the difference, soypajeet.

Throwing made up words at people doesn't really strengthen your argument.

Mate, there's more to programming than php and css, okay?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_system

You ignorant fuck

"nigger" I'm not writing fucking websites, but if C is more optimised and already has huge user base and lots of libraries.... Why would I start using Fort? I'm getting payed to deliver a product. So why should my team rewrite something in Forth or start new project in it?
What is the "killer feature " of this language for actual business application besides "its small and if you need something write it yourself from ground up".
If you have a job you know how it is and what am I talking about.

Nobody's telling you to rewrite anything, we're telling you that Forth has its uses.

>Forth is an EXTREMELY extensible language, while still being low level and known for its memory efficiency.
Boy, you couldn't just fucking read the OP could you?
A good example of a system that uses Forth to its full advantage would be the satellites running Forth. They need a language that is:
>extensible - so it can be updated and worked on without rebooting the system
>low level - so it's useful in programming in embedded systems
>memory efficient - so their tiny ass microcontroller won't be overflowing with a bloated language

For these kind of applications, there's no libraries and often even no C compilers.


I think it's pretty fucking clear that this isn't the language for you.

OK, it has its uses. But if you are shilling this language this hard then I expect when you talk with someone who is doing it for a living to have better arguments.
I like learning new stuff, if it can help me being more productive in what I do. I'm not attacking you, just asking coherent response.
You mentioned embedded, what systems exactly and why would it be better than C?

Skim through this
complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/why-forth

Well yeah, I'm not programming fucking satellites m8 and neither do you. Now why is it better in industry automation than C?
Or your answer is still hurrr durrr NASA uses it for satellites.

You lost your soul long ago.

>I expect when you talk with someone who is doing it for a living to have better arguments.
What you're doing for a living is completely different. You clearly don't know shit about low level programming, so stop pretending that your webdev job gives you any credentials here, kek.


>You mentioned embedded, what systems exactly and why would it be better than C?
Stack based machines are obviously very well suited for Forth, but those are generally rare now a days.
You'll see Forth used in systems that cannot afford to shutdown for updates and that would gain from the extra interactivity that Forth provides. Even in these embedded systems, you'll often have a small forth interpreter to help debug and update the code. That's just not possible in any other language, not efficiently at least. (It's common to see Forth compilers+interpreters that are under 1k in RISC's)

Thanks user finally something. Much better than hurrr durrr satellites guy

>I'm not attacking you, just asking coherent response.
This was clearly a lie, since you responded with low effort memes to a coherent response telling you exactly why one might use it: Good post user, thanks, I'll probably add that to the OP.

Once again I'm not a Web developer, and judging by your stupid insults I highly doubt you even have a job.
Second part seems like something you read from Wikipedia an now you are just acting smart.
So once again, tell me and show me real application of this language. Where can you use it today except NASA and few esoteric products? Where?

God, you're annoying cunt.
The NASA example was just a list of the major pros to Forth that make it standout in embedded systems programming.

If your machine has similar requirements, then maybe you should consider Forth for it, that simple. There are more reasons to use Forth, but those are more subjective and covered better by that link posted by the kind user.

So I'm annoying if I'm asking about uses except for the NASA satellites? And you tell me again if my machine has similar requirements? Like satellites?
Gosh user you are so cewl. Maybe Forth programming pays you enough so you can finally move from your parents house.
user that posted that link is the only one who actually contributed something.
All of the other shills just parroting dumb shit about satellites.... So motherfucking supreme. Even idiots who setup fucking WordPress sites can earn more than you. Good luck getting experienced enough for work in NASA.
Dumb ass kid

No, you're annoying because you repeatedly DEMANDED I give you a good reason to use Forth, while "systematically" being unable to understand the most basic shit.
Again, the NASA thing was a fucking EXAMPLE, do you have any idea what those are?

Right, sorry oh smart one. Go read a few times that only somewhat useful text other user provided. You might seem smarter on your next shill crusade. I'm done here

Cursing even less so :)
There's also more to it than hipster-jerking.
With all this defense of irrelevant hipster tech ITT, you lot would be a perfect fit for today's (web) frontend ecosystem.
I mean, what more do webshits love than using this one obscure trick(!) and reinventing wheels badly?

>A good example of a system that uses Forth to its full advantage would be the satellites running Forth. They need a language that is:
>>extensible - so it can be updated and worked on without rebooting the system
>>low level - so it's useful in programming in embedded systems
>>memory efficient - so their tiny ass microcontroller won't be overflowing with a bloated language
>
>For these kind of applications, there's no libraries and often even no C compilers.
Now this is actually selling me on "it's not totally irrelevant". Thanks, worst-girl poster!

>.at
Oh boy, we all know where we'd end up if we listen to the ideas of someone from Australia.

Forth autists always tell you how good the language is and show you small snippets showcasing its power.
They will also tell you how quickly they managed to implement complex systems in only 100 lines of code, which, would've taken 5+ years to implement in ANY other language, of course.
However as soon as you ask them to show you any of these mythical forth systems, they will tell you that they're ALL proprietary or they will find some other way to weasel out.
I've seen this pattern repeat itself every time I came across forth autists since I started reading USENET in the early 90s.

Can I do oop with it?

>seen this pattern repeat itself every time I came across forth autists since I started reading USENET in the early 90s
Oh this is just lovely.
This pasta will come in handy till the Forthists find some other place to shill.

t-thanks

In fairness the russki lass looks quite bendable in this getup, much more so than her other coswhoring stuff.

this i can't seem to find any substantial forth programs on the internet. there are probably more forth compilers than forth programs on the internet

There are more Forth compilers than programmers kek.

>Yerk
it just yerks
Alternatively
>Mops
>Yeah buddy, that's all you'll work with if ya put all yer eggs in the fort basket

You kind of have to get creative after some point :/

There's a joke in the Forth community that an intermediate Forth programmer is one that has made its own Forth, and it's pretty fucking true.

Reminds me of the classic
>Haskell is ideally suited for writing Haskell compilers

you'd think with all those compilers there would be source to show something productive

Nah m8 "unfortunately" it's all proprietary cuz is very srs bzns, totally!

Just because the source isn't on github doesn't mean Forth programmers don't do useful work. It's just that most of the useful stuff we do is for our own autistic use and with specialized hardware (whatever microcontroller and misc. chips the programmer wants).


The code for Chuck's system is out there if you want it. It contains is CAD application and a bunch of his other utilities I believe. He's pretty autistic, so all the stuff out there about/from him were published by other people.

IRC is also bloat. I bet every IRC client even uses local variables in their source code, ew.

we have actually discussed writing our own tiny IRC client in Forth to avoid BLOAT kek

show me the code

actually useful link
hackaday.com/2017/01/27/forth-the-hackers-language/

That's hard to come by for most Forth's.
For example, Chuck Moore's colorForth is a "sourceless" system and the source that does exist is written directly to disk sectors, with no care for complicated disk formats.

With that said tho, here's some stuff I found:
merlintec.com/download/color.html
colorforth.github.io/ (not source, just talking about some of his work)

Forth programmers simply aren't into sharing their highly specialized code for no good reason. And they certainly aren't into writing stuff for someone else. I think this article kind of explains the mentality behind that too desu: There are several reasons why good Forth code isn't widely available, and we've been talking about starting a small Forth project to help with that.

it was a better time.

Why are some people so seemingly offended by the suggestion that Forth might have a use? There are some very angry anons in this thread and I can't figure out what got them so upset.

ps I don't know forth

Idk, they probably fell for some Sup Forums meme and are now violent Cucks.

A less pc cover for a more based time.

Forth is also perfect to learn memory management: I learned more on allocation, heap and stack with Forth, than with C pointers.

>muh delivering a product
>muh business software
I swear to god every thread made in this shithole about even slightly obscure interesting languages gets shitposted to shit by literal code monkeys.
You ever thought that people just use languages because they're interesting to them? Maybe they like the syntax, maybe they take it as a challenge, maybe they want to have themselves forced to think radically different about programming.
You're like the faggot arguing not to learn actual (not programming) languages interesting to people, but languages many people speak so they can get a job as a translator or some shit, because clearly that's the only reason anyone would ever pick up a language.

May tge forth be with you - all defined above. Wow! It runs real time

see

Forth must be some kind of ironic inside joke

This is the spirit of fourth

Check out my sin/cos implementation Sup Forums