Is anyone using bsd for real work or is it just a meme?

is anyone using bsd for real work or is it just a meme?

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Other urls found in this thread:

dragonflybsd.org/presentations/
medium.com/netflix-techblog/serving-100-gbps-from-an-open-connect-appliance-cdb51dda3b99
queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2349257
lwn.net/Articles/704739/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Mostly as a base for other things. We use it in research, but not as a server, rather as a base for our code which is motivated by problems surfacing in appliances (where FreeBSD is mostly used)

Deprecated, replace computer software.

>using #FreeHugsBSD

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Only if you are mentally ill (i.e. homosexual).

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CRUX has BSD style init scripts and ports, former FreeBSD users will feel at home.

Isn't OpenBSD 30 billion times better?

Using OpenBSD everywhere, except CRUX where performance is critical.
Don't use insecure deprecated software (nothing comes 4free).

FreeBSD is often used on storage due to ZFS support (freenas) and for networking (pfsense, opnsense, juniperos).
I've seen a bunch of commercial NASs on NetBSD.
Ironically, Dragonfly and OpenBSD are better than the FreeBSD and NetBSD they forked from. But they don't get as much use. The former mostly because of ignorance and lack of ZFS, the latter mostly because where netbsd is used, it is usually due to its more or less stable, unchanging general structure; OpenBSD changes a lot over time.

Consider dragonfly. Has the superior design among all BSDs.
dragonflybsd.org/presentations/

BSD is due to licensing a good place to steal software if you want to make a proprietary OS.

There's a funny use for that logo, like what was done with the Apple logo. I know it.

I'm homosexual and I would much rather use GNU/Linux. Only thing that appeals to me about FreeBSD is ZFS, but you can often install that on GNU/Linux one way or another.

You right user, flip it upside down, it is already red. Anyone from /mlp/

medium.com/netflix-techblog/serving-100-gbps-from-an-open-connect-appliance-cdb51dda3b99

I think the only reason why BSD is becoming more popular lately is because Linux has reached the point where it's basically usable as a desktop OS. Flawed, sure, but not *nearly* as bad as it was in 2008 or so, which is where BSD is at now. I guess people use it because they needed another pain in the ass

>Linux has reached the point where it's basically usable as a desktop OS
Linux-rt is usable.
Linux is not. It has peaks of milliseconds of scheduling latency once in a while, making it unsuitable for audio work and streaming (eg: videoconference, where small buffers are desired and would cut) and severe i/o stalls at times during dirty writeback, that can take many seconds to clear, all while apps look frozen. Most regular Linux users are so used to these they don't even realise how much their operating system sucks.
Linux-rt solves both issues, through clever hacks, with a negligible throughput impact thanks to recent optimisation work.

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

Dragonfly is better, as it's designed to prevent lock congestion, by preferring message passing and concurrent lockless system servers running as separate processes, rather than a fine-grained lock hell where kernel entry time is known, but kernel exit time might take ages, if the wrong turn is taken in the complex AF execution flow.

anyone using pfsense does use it, lots of mail servers too.

it's solid just you need to be competent with computers to make it do mainstream shit, but working, chatting, web browsing, of course that all works.

fbsd is a shit version of linux.

It's utter garbage as a desktop. Linux, OpenBSD, Haiku, and fucking Genode all have devs using it day to day as a desktop, but FreeBSD devs are hardcore macfags. FreeBSD's network stack is pretty good, but hampered by the poor SMP implementation. It's mostly useful for network (pfSense, Juniper) and storage (FreeNAS) appliances.

No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation.

Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ.

One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you?

(An operating system) != (a distribution). Linux is an operating system. By my definition, an operating system is that software which provides and limits access to hardware resources on a computer. That definition applies whereever you see Linux in use. However, Linux is usually distributed with a collection of utilities and applications to make it easily configurable as a desktop system, a server, a development box, or a graphics workstation, or whatever the user needs. In such a configuration, we have a Linux (based) distribution. Therein lies your strongest argument for the unwieldy title 'GNU/Linux' (when said bundled software is largely from the FSF). Go bug the distribution makers on that one. Take your beef to Red Hat, Mandrake, and Slackware. At least there you have an argument. Linux alone is an operating system that can be used in various applications without any GNU software whatsoever. Embedded applications come to mind as an obvious example.

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Two years ago I would have agreed with you, but not after recent fiasco after fiasco not counting all the ones that were explicitly hidden away from public.
FreeBSD used to have a bright future until one asshole without anything to keep in between the legs came along, started spreading his self-hatred disorder and have messed up perfectly good OS for everyone.

It turned into sjw shitshow recently. Getting my windows server. At least Bill pays white males to work on Windows server. I can accept Pajeet as well as long as they are on low level jobs, but never a tranny or feminist

>BSD supported by Applel
>gets overtaken by tranny fags

it was pretty obvious BSD had no future.

Lies! Apple would never risk its image.
Sent from my iPad.

>FreeBSD's network stack is pretty good, but hampered by the poor SMP implementation. It's mostly useful for network (pfSense, Juniper) and storage (FreeNAS) appliances.
A shitty SMP design they copied from Linux.
It's the reason Dragonfly forked, and why it is so much better than cucked FreeBSD garbage.

Oh well, this kind of post again.

>Linux-rt is usable.
IT'S REAL TIME SO IT MUST BE GOOD

>It has peaks of milliseconds of scheduling latency once in a while ... and severe i/o stalls at times during dirty writeback
This happened rarely with the default scheduler, and has been fixed sometime before 4.14
Of course this was never a problem if you used a different scheduler, but a memeboi like you wouldn't know about that.

>Most regular Linux users are so used to these they don't even realise how much their operating system sucks.
Most regular users hit it maybe twice a year, so that's a non-issue.

>Linux-rt solves both issues
Well, Linux-rt targets completely different use cases but whatever.

>X is better because it's designed
I'll stop you right here. "Design" is a nice thing but unless you have real-life tests that prove it's better in common scenarios, you really are just pulling things out of your ass.

>message passing and concurrent lockless system servers
>rather than a fine-grained lock hell
You're really just exchanging one kind of hell for another.

>IT'S REAL TIME SO IT MUST BE GOOD
Stick to facts. Max scheduler latency under 100us vs peaks of many miliseconds (I've measured 25ms, on just hours of use, with 4.14)
>This happened rarely with the default scheduler, and has been fixed sometime before 4.14
No it's not, and no it has nothing to do with the scheduler., and everything to do with the complexity of linux kernel's locking, and how it at times leads to situations where there's no preemption points in multiple milliseconds.
>Of course this was never a problem if you used a different scheduler, but a memeboi like you wouldn't know about that.
See above. And no, using e.g. -ck doesn't help there.
>Most regular users hit it maybe twice a year, so that's a non-issue.
Heh. I guess that's what it looks like when you get used to it. You don't even notice hiccups when they are a few seconds.
>Well, Linux-rt targets completely different use cases but whatever.
Not really, no. Linux-rt is only about soft realtime, the kind that helps massively with desktop use and audio work. It doesn't do hard realtime at all, although it does have a cop-out but working way to accomodate hard realtime: Reserving CPUs. That's a very simple hack that some people do use to e.g. drive lasers, but it's a small and imho irrelevant part of the patchset. Nobody sane actually drivers lasers that way. There's true hard realtime OSs to do that. I suggest eChronos and seL4.
>I'll stop you right here. "Design" is a nice
Yes it is.
>but unless you have real-life tests.
See recent presentations on network stack improvements @ dragonfly. It has higher throughput and lower latency (esp. max latency) than both Linux and FreeBSD. That's very real.
Lower scheduler latency is also very real and measurable (use lmbench's ctxlat test). Hammer2 performance *will* be interesting, but it's not there yet. I'd use it anytime over BTRFS, though.
And this is all possible despite small team, which covers your very last point. Manageable vs not.

>GPL software is due to licensing a good place to steal software if you're Chinese, while cucking everyone else

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>"Design" is a nice thing but
ladies (males) and Sup Forumsentoomen, the result of a generation of pajeets that have been polluted and brainwashed by the "bazaar":
queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2349257

So they'd rather pirate gpl'd code than use shitty permissive licenced bsd code?
Nobody said chinks were stupid.

>FreeBSD is so big! We have everything.
>Did you know that we have Tigers?
Pls do one with poland.

>by Poul-Henning Kamp
Yeah, that's why FreeBSD is so successful and well-designed. Because it's run by a committee of retards that would rather write feminist manifestos than improve their OS. Or, God forbid, actually run it on their laptops.
A working bazaar is preferable to an ill-run cathedral.

>message passing
Instant boner.

them digits, damn

>Genode desktop
Wow.

This talk makes me wonder of we'll all be runnin' Google Fucksya on our desktops in the near future. It is, after all, being developed specifically to drive a system with audio I/O, a camera and a screen.

And it's not any message passing. It's inspired in Amiga's (the "ports").
dragonflybsd.org/presentations/
Have fun!
Yeah, its developers do dogfood.
It's scary but likely. They have a good team there, with core developers from NewOS/BeOS.

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>dragonflybsd.org/presentations/
Any favorites? Also, it's a bit worrying that most of the presentations are from the mid-2000s.

Second PDF, nanosleep, baylisa, USENIX 2005 (both).
At that point, you'll probably feel like listening to the bsdtalk stuff.

Thanks.

I use it to run a mailing list and webserver.

For backups, it has superior ZFS support. The SJW shit going on is worrying, though.

(bsdtalk53, 2007)
>dragonflybsd
>thread switch tasks under a microsecond
>interprocess switch under a microsecond
>messages under a microsecond
Meanwhile, on Linux, in 2017... no fucking way.

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I use it on my laptop

It's the only OS left that keeps my Xserve G5 running smoothly. I'm never going to throw this cluster away, desu.

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Are there any power management issues?

The only issue I've had in the three years or so I've been using it was with 5.8 (iirc) where it wouldn't boot unless the laptop was docked, but once it booted I could remove it and it'd work just fine.

Everytime I try to run a bsd on a slightly modern laptop it either doesn't boot or has power management issues. I guess I have bad luck

Xenophobia seems like one of those things that doesn't affect your choice of OS but live and learn

Maybe it's the wrong bsd.
I've had lotsa success with openbsd on laptops.

I tried every BSD and the one that gave me the least problems was freebsd...pretty hard to believe right?

Just upgrade to a pi already and save some power bills.

Surprsingly enough, most production ARM chips for cheap boards like that still haven't surpassed the Geekbench for the Xserve, so I'll stick with it for now.

Meme. It's a hobbyist OS. MS is for gaymers or retards and Linux is for all the modifications and freedoms and control of your system.

Using anything else is a waste of time.

What about geekbench/w?

>he hasn't tried the BSDs

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I use it on my NAS for ZFS.

I'm sure that matters for serving your couple of files to two people.

>cuck license
>witchhunt CoC
with so many benefits the choice is clear that if you are not using FreeBSD in current year you are on the wrong side of history and should be castrated for rapethink

I run relatively popular pay-to-win AutismCraft and Quake servers, among a few other game servers. Very CPU and RAM intensive, which is definitely not a specialty for ARM systems considered "cheap."

>Linux is not. It has peaks of milliseconds of scheduling latency once in a while, making it unsuitable for audio work
As does Windows, both of them are pre-emptive scheduling kernels that don't do realtime.

>streaming (eg: videoconference, where small buffers are desired and would cut)
No, video conferencing works fine on Linux and any other OS.

>severe i/o stalls at times during dirty writeback, that can take many seconds to clear, all while apps look frozen. Most regular Linux users are so used to these they don't even realise how much their operating system sucks.
Bullshit.

>I use it on my NAS for ZFS
Lawsuit waiting to happen. Even apple seen it coming and quickly switched to little tested own APFS.

>Lawsuit waiting to happen. Even apple seen it coming and quickly switched to little tested own APFS.
Why? Its use in FreeBSD isn't in conflict with the license. It would be in Linux and OS X.

>As does Windows
Monitoring Windows I've found it never goes over 1ms.
>both of them are pre-emptive scheduling kernels that don't do realtime.
Both do soft realtime. On Linux, see the SCHED_FIFO and SCHED_RR scheduling classes. The problem is that they don't do it well, because both kernels can run for extended periods of time with preemption disabled. Linux is worse, much worse in this regard.
>No, video conferencing works fine on Linux and any other OS.
With a large buffer and associated latency, sure. Got to somehow weather the storm of multi-ms hiccups.
>i/o stalls / bullshit
They're aware e.g.: lwn.net/Articles/704739/
There's no solution for this yet, but linux-rt has the best mitigation. I've had zero perceivable stalls with it, whereas on mainline desktop usage, it's many a day.

*Hugs the project team.

Insightful comment - thanks!

It's FLOSS, though? And license-compatible with BSD.

>quake and craft

Wow such modern requirement.

all of my dorm servers use it for years, there is a certain IBM unit with over 7 years of uptime

We use Pfsense and FreeNAS at the small business I work at.

Well, it makes sense for former Amiga people do be into low-latency shit.

>It's the only OS left that keeps my Xserve G5 running smoothly.
Doesn't Linux work pretty well on PowerPC machines? Admittedly, I've only tried it on a G4 desktop Mac, not a G5 server.
>Quake
>pay-to-win
How? Also, do you run them from home?

honestly, the only time I've felt the term GNU/Linux has been appropriate is when I'm writing shell scripts that pretty much depend on various Linux-isms, are made for bash, and use a bunch of GNU-specific flags on commands
because then the program actually requires a Linux system with GNU tools

otherwise, it's just RMS trying to spread his brand (and thus his message), and we haven't been calling Linux distributions XOrg/Linux

This was apparently written by a person who only thinks of desktops.

Yeah, I use it. Not sure my home computer obviously

>>lwn.net/Articles/704739/
>if I do something like this:
>$ dd if=/dev/zero of=foo bs=1M count=10k
>on my laptop, and then try and start chrome, it basically won't start
>before the buffered writeback is done.
Oh shit, I've run into this.

t. FreeBSD dev

Fuck you all, I call it Android.

Does Android have any RT-related patches? Sound used to lag badly on 4.x.

You can patch it if you have root by yourself. Usually manufacturers ditch support for devices, and patches is their responsibility, not Google's

And yes, don't compile kernel on phone, it is dumb. I did it, and it took forever.

Give it up you fucking autist, you're always posting in every single cuckbsd thread

Thoughts on what will happen when FreeBSD will loose its 501c3 tax exempt status

>The most hardcore SJWs will lose interest and leave the project, because they're only interested in shit that lets them beg for money. They will then flock to another project they could use to rinse-and-repeat like the parasites they are.
>The white-knight cucks that supported them will be left holding the bag without enough manpower to continue the project, and too damaged of a reputation to rebuild a sustainable team.
>The larger sponsors and corporations will gradually start pulling out one by one, as they reluctantly start acknowledging the writing on the wall
>The remaining prominent advocates of the project still cling on to it hopelessly optimistically, and resort more and more to begging for money, citing the project's "long Unix heritage", because literally all of its technical features will have decayed over time and been surpassed by all of its competitors due to the lack of having competent developers on board
>The FreeBSD foundation and election-based project structure will effectively collapse and lose all relevancy as donations and interest dry up completely
>The project will fade into MorphOS levels of obscurity, and die a slow silent death as it's remaining contributors bitterly lose hope or kick the bucket due to old age
>A final long obituary/postmortem will be written up on the project as a cautionary tale, and reach second place on Hacker News, just below the announcement for the latest release of OpenBSD which finally includes Bluetooth, HDMI audio, and TRIM support

Why would it?