archive.is/NyrPV >For years, a slew of shadowy companies have sold so-called encrypted phones, custom BlackBerry or Android devices that sometimes have the camera and microphone removed and only send secure messages through private networks. Several of those firms allegedly cater primarily for criminal organizations.
>Now, the FBI has arrested the owner of one of the most established companies, Phantom Secure, as part of a complex law enforcement operation, according to court records and sources familiar with the matter.
>In addition to removing the microphone and camera from BlackBerry devices, Phantom also takes out GPS navigation, internet browsing, and normal messenger services, the complaint reads. Phantom then installs Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) software to send encrypted messages, and routes these messages through overseas servers, the complaint alleges. archive.fo/a7R88 >The documents said: “Phantom Secure’s devices and service were specifically designed to prevent law enforcement from intercepting and monitoring communication on the network, and every facet of Phantom Secure’s corporate structure was set up specifically to facilitate criminal activity and to impede, obstruct and evade law enforcement.”
Offer customers means to protect themselves from the insecure, traceable device that is the modern smartphone, and you get pinned as a criminal. Instead of targeting the actual cartels and criminals, the feds go after non-criminals, because anything that makes their job harder is bad and needs to be outlawed. Using something like gpg is a criminal act according to these articles. Putting tape over your camera is signs of criminal activity, according to these articles.
Am I on Buzzfeed? Did you read your own damn article? It literally says he was busted for selling them to drug cartels. It says nothing about putting tape over your camera being a sign of criminal activity. If you do business primarily with criminals, this makes you a suspect. Simply taking steps to protect your privacy does not and the two are not even remotely comparable.
Alexander Lee
this
Gavin Perry
>sells privacy enhancing phones >gets caught
Charles Price
BlackBerry is a descend company I don't get how that's a crime tho A lot of counties sell weapons to various terroristic groups
If you read between the lines, sentiments like that are tacked on to legitimize the entire thing. They tack on "illicit" to every legitimate practice. "In addition to removing the microphone and camera", as if this this itself is grounds for prosecution. Statements that there are no legitimate uses for privacy, and they equate it to criminality. >It literally says he was busted for selling them to drug cartels How is that criminal? He offered a service, which only incidentally can serve illicit purposes. Why isn't the CEO of the toilet paper manufacturer arrested for helping criminals wipe their ass?
Lucas Williams
>Why isn't the CEO of the toilet paper manufacturer arrested for helping criminals wipe their ass? because thats where it stops. if the criminals take wiped ass tissues and pack them into plastics bags and sell it, and people who buy them starting stealing/killing then its a problem.
>you are not allowed to sell things to criminal organizations we should go after the companies that sell their food instead i am sure this is a totally legitimate tactic
Matthew Foster
>In order to pin Phantom to criminal activities, Canada’s Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) purchased Phantom devices while posing as drug traffickers. The RCMP then asked if it was safe to send messages such as “sending MDMA to Montreal,” to which Phantom replied it was “totally fine.” The RCMP also pretended that authorities had arrested an associate with incriminating evidence on the phone, and needed Phantom to wipe the device. Multiple undercover agents, posing as drug traffickers looking to expand their operations, also met Ramos in Las Vegas in February 2017, the complaint continues. >“We made it—we made it specifically for this [drug trafficking] too,” Ramos told undercover agents, according to a transcript included in the complaint. OP is either a lazy or a dishonest faggot who didn't post the relevant parts of the article.
Camden Garcia
But that isn't illegal, unless leaf law is different than mutt law.
Austin Smith
>In order to pin Phantom to criminal activities See, now how is this relevant to the phone business? Why would they want to pin anything on him and the company? The answer is because he pissed them off, not because he was doing anything wrong. Yes, the guy is complicit when he manually responds to wipe requests, but that became known only after the fact. The articles aren't about this, they're about "privacy and encryption = bad", and then the justification is because he's a criminal.
Nolan Davis
>inb4 muh dumbphones with locked basebands and less control over userspace
You could have just said we should go after the companies that make the cars they smuggle drugs in, if you wanted to use that weak ass argument. What you wrote was embarrassing.
Gavin Reed
i intentionally used an exaggerated example to show you how retarded the idea is
Angel Walker
You're a fucking moron. If the guy was innocent, he would have outright refused to give such services to drug cartels. Yet they were literally trying to aid a drug cartel. Here, have a (You)
Gabriel Carter
Protip: They don't smuggle car in with cars, they use submarines and drones.
t. Knower
Brody Myers
> If the guy was innocent, he would have outright refused to give such services to drug cartels. why? money is money who cares who it comes from is there a law that says that you are not allowed to do business with criminals?
Ryan Myers
>is there a law that says that you are not allowed to do business with criminals? yes, retard
Cameron Morris
>is there a law that says that you are not allowed to do business with criminals? Yes, multiple.
Brody Evans
then you can go after companies/people selling their cars, food, {insert shit here} and literally starve them to death.
Benjamin Cox
just reading OP's replies made me lose a few neurons, how can someone be that retarded? I hope you're raped and killed in a fire, faggot
Colton Mitchell
Okay, why don't weapon go to jail. Cartels are using guns to kill people
Cameron Lopez
This only applies if they're companies that operate in countries with such laws. Why the fuck would they use a US or Canadian company for food?
Connor Hernandez
Why would taking out a bunch of shit be illegal? Why would it be illegal to sell things to criminals?
Camden Baker
why would you assume that mexico doesn't have such laws? i mean besides it being a virtually lawless shithole of course
Easton Phillips
>How is that criminal? He offered a service He offered a service do narco-terrorist organizations. How fucking dense are you?
Josiah Lee
>is there a law that says that you are not allowed to do business with criminals? Yes, you goddamned lunatic.
I would be interested in doing something like this to a cell phone. It's seems reasonably simple for a hardware point of view to remove the microphone and cameras etc.
But what about the software? Will the phone boot with these devices removed?
I am surprised there is not a guide for it somewhere.
Tyler Bell
Not only that, but it's your duty to report the criminals to law enforcement. Crazy, right?
So what they're selling isn't illegal, but who they're selling to is? Should the people who serve food and gas to criminals be arrested too? What about EMS personnel that help criminals? Why not criminals family and parents for raising and loving them? Why not the criminals landlord or credit provider?
Ethan Kelly
OP your topic and the headline in the image are two totally different things you fucking loser
Justin Parker
You know what would be great? If the CEO made the knowledge available for everyone If he specified how to remove cameras, microphones and made his target audience not criminals he would not be in jail
Nolan Williams
>sell un-Jewable phones = prison >sell firearms to terrorist organizations in puppet countries = president of the united states 2008-2016
America pls
John Collins
>2008-2016 You have a typo there user it's 2001-2009
Colton Parker
I stand corrected, and for the record let's throw Carter, Ford and Nixon on there too for the whole basis of the 1979 Iranian Revolution
Christopher Baker
yes, and they all are when they don't cooperate with the investigations you are given a choice
you can give the knowledge you know about the criminal, or you can impede the investigation and be arrested what do you think is normally chosen by people that have transparent business models?
Nathan Russell
Yes, if any of those know that the person has criminal intent with the service/goods they're providing and not only sells it to them but also fails to report the person to authorities, they're committing a crime.
Elijah Allen
>thought police at the finest
Gavin Scott
>why yes, I DID know they're going to rob a bank and then use me as a getaway driver, but you can't hold ME responsible for anything, I'm just a taxi driver
It's more like you delivering pizza to a place, seeing guns, crack, and bank robbery plans, and then being arrested for not reporting that and telling your customers "yes, this pizza is specifically designed to nourish bank robbery"
Cameron Morgan
Fuck off CIA nigger
Chase Ortiz
He didn't even say that. The robbers asked if the pizza was going to feed them up enough to pull off a robbery and the deliveryman said that yeah, pizza is designed for this [to fill them up]. But then the glow in the dark cia niggers decide to pretend he meant something different by 'this'.
Lucas Torres
it's called aiding and abetting a known criminal, it's a long-established legal principle, and if you want to have any real hope of taking down organized crime you need a legal system that has it
Matthew Richardson
Obvious move for the feds to leverage this into giving them technical specs or even access. Why else would they go so far for such a tiny company within the smartphone industry.
Isaac Nelson
>glow in the dark cia what is this meme? I haven't been outside of lit in months.
>food and gas helps you subvert the law >food and gas companies are put in a situation where they would be privy to criminal information Love this argument.
Brandon Murphy
>oi m8, are you feeding that racist hate speecher? >Don't you know that's illegal to aid criminals?
Julian Powell
It helps you subvert the law just as much as a cellphone does. Either a product is legal or illegal, there is no context. When you say that the phones themselves are legal, you can exchange the product for any number of other legal products in the same trade scenario and the legality remains the same. What may have been illegal was offering services to remote wipe illegal data from a phone. That's obstruction of Justice, but that's the only crime I can think he actually committed.
Also, if your business is in encrypted and private communication then no, you are not privy to the information being sent on those devices. That's the entire point of the product you offer: it's entirely secure. This is like you saying that a bank vault company CEO should be arrested for selling a vault to a known criminal organization, because they would have the ability to get in the vault.
Jayden Lopez
>Should the people who serve food and gas to criminals be arrested too? Mexican here. They are arrested too. Sometimes it's even stolen food or gas. >What about EMS personnel that help criminals? They already arrest those too. The cartels have their own medic staff and it's illegal to be one of them. >Why not criminals family and parents for raising and loving them? I don't understand this part. You're probably retarded. >Why not the criminals landlord or credit provider? Yes. These people are being arrested too for complicity. You probably think you were making some very clever point, but actually all the people you mentioned get arrested for doing business with criminal organizations.
Elijah Anderson
Good enough for the cartel, good enough for me. Not even kidding.
And? He can sell his legally owned shit to whoever the fuck he wants
James Jenkins
Drug lords don't eat? Do they grow their own food?
Joseph James
>he thinks these things are all fine and not indicative of a failed police state Dont you have a wall to be building paco?
Easton Roberts
>>food and gas helps you subvert the law >criminals don't get food >they are tired, sloppy and eventually starve >sell gas to criminals >to move between safehouses and to run away from police
>>food and gas companies are put in a situation where they would be privy to criminal information >know where criminals or their helpers are >selling a phone modified specifically NOT to be tracked is "being privy to criminal information" >yes, officer, I can confirm that Pablo the II does in fact have a cellphone >not criminal information
Brody Morales
it must suck going outside and seeing a bunch of gorillas holding machetes hanging someone from a rival gang and having to sneak by or run for your life to not get shot.
Brayden Peterson
>have a lemonade stand >forget one time to run a customer through interpol database >turns out he was Tyrone Melonwater, a notorious criminal who stole 5 bikes, 3 iPhones, 2 lolipops and one gurl >I sold a lemonade to a criminal, which helped him survive, aiding him in his vile criminal ways >that means that now I'm a criminal >everyone who has ever traded with me helped to get me to where I am now so they're a criminal too >everyone who traded with them is one too and so on >I single-handedly ended the human race by making everyone on the planet a criminal and then they got arrested/killed by the police drones Damn, should've thought of the children
Would you become a major drug dealer just to get a de-botneted phone, Sup Forums?
Carter Robinson
Except they found he was using PGP, so it's not legal
Michael Thomas
>locks on doors make it harder for the feds to enter your house, time to arrest the lock company CEOs >oh no, a criminal ate some nachos, time to a arrest the Taco Bell CEO FBI nigger logic.
If I follow all rules and regulations and sell you a handgun with no knowledge of your intent to use it for wrongdoing, it's not my problem when you shoot somebody with it. You're the criminal in that scenario, not me.
Where can I buy one of these phones? If the FBI had this much trouble with these than I gotta get one.
Christopher Nelson
They eat local food dumbass
Jordan Baker
Right, I forgot that military (TL note: real) encryption is illegal
Adrian Carter
The absolute state of Mexico
Gabriel Morris
Proof? Even if I doubt farmers are 100% self-sufficient. If they traded with drug lords they're criminals and then everyone who traded with them is a criminal too
Sebastian Flores
>Open source software is illegal The absolute state of Canada
Parker Baker
Can you not cut cartel members hair? Can you not have their driveway? Can you not fix their roof?
Joshua Morgan
It shows intent, which is why they decided to investigate in the first place. >malware is open source >this somehow negates the fact that it's malware And US was after him, Canada just cooperated
Blake Howard
>PGP >Malware
>Intent >Literally thoughts >A crime The absolute state of CIA niggers
Kayden Kelly
>I have no fucking clue what pgp is: the post
>he sold him a working product - that shows intent >sorry sir, I cannot sell you unpoisoned bread - you could be a criminal and I don't want to go to jail >this sick fuck sold him the pen, paper AND the military-grade letter with glue used to send orders - lock him up!
There are guides. It isn't illegal to do what that guy did, he just knowingly did it for criminals to aid them which made him an accessory. If you were willing to pay that kind of money to someone, you could have your phone done the same way legally. Most just don't do it because it isn't convenient or worth the money to them.
Christopher Myers
>someone helps aid a criminal to wipe data and obstruct justice
>this is equivalent to arresting and imprisoning anyone who aided a criminal unknowingly without running every person through a fucking database first and who were engaging in legal commerce that did not have the active purpose of helping a criminal do crime
You are the most hyperbolic little bitch I have ever seen. You and OP are hysterical faggots.
Hunter Parker
Depends on what you are talking about. Law enforcement can do business with criminals as part of sting operations. Intelligence agencies can do basically whatever they want in the name of national security, but at that point you may as well ask why a country is "allowed" to break the laws of another country without punishment.
Christopher Cruz
>So what they're selling isn't illegal, but who they're selling to is? Yes.
>Should the people who serve food and gas to criminals be arrested too? It is not illegal for criminals to eat food or put gas in their car. It is illegal to traffic drugs, and selling cartels devices you know will be used explicitly for that purpose makes you an accessory to that crime.
How about this. It's legal to to buy and own a gun in the US. If you walk into a gun shop and ask the guy behind the counter which gun would be best for killing the highest number of people in the shortest amount of time, he's going to tell you to fuck off and probably call the cops.
Dominic Torres
If a person robbed some jewelry, goes to a bank and asks the bank manager to rent out a box for him to store his ill-gotten goods until the police stop searching for them, and the bank manager agrees and doesn't report it to the police, the bank manager is aiding and abetting a criminal.
Tyler Smith
why did that take me so long to notice
Aaron Jackson
>In order to pin Phantom to criminal activities, Canada’s Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) purchased Phantom devices while posing as drug traffickers. The RCMP then asked if it was safe to send messages such as “sending MDMA to Montreal,” to which Phantom replied it was “totally fine.” The RCMP also pretended that authorities had arrested an associate with incriminating evidence on the phone, and needed Phantom to wipe the device. Wait, so not only did they not find any actual criminal connection, they pretended to be criminals and went to the company asking for assistance? Isn't this complete entrapment? As in, not even a honey pot, but literally asking them to commit a so-called crime and then arresting them for it?
Daniel Watson
THEY ONLY GOT THE GUY CAUSE THEY ARE lAZY
>instead of taking his tax money to the people, the arrest this faggot and seize all his assets, and put all his earning in evidence, to be untouched, unless a criminal cop takes it. Instead of doing actual work they rather arrest a tax payer who happen to sell privacy phones that cartels might like.
Why isn't apple trialed?
Alexander Cox
Entrapment is fine and legal if the govt does it for the "good" of the public and johnny bootlicker will gleefully agree along with the glow in the dark cia niggers.
Kayden Gonzalez
It is not considered entrapment unless they are being manipulated into doing something they would not do otherwise. If an undercover cop walks up to a drug dealer and asks to buy drugs, then it's totally fine. They did the same sort of thing here. They just went and asked them to help them commit crimes and the company obliged.
John Cook
What if they thought they were selling the phones to legal drug dealers, like glow in the dark cia niggers?
Jayden Johnson
The phone isn't the illegal part. Offering to encrypt the phones/delete data FOR THE PURPOSE OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IS.
So, at no point did they think they were giving law abiding people these phones, which would be entirely legal. They were selling these phones under the knowledge that it was to be used for an illegal activity, you dimwitted simpleton.
Bentley Brooks
How much do you glow in the dark?
Eli Richardson
Why even bother posting if you can't respond with anything other than meaningless drivel?
Parker Gutierrez
I always thought a "bald eagle" is a vulchur
Brayden Robinson
where can i get one of these in the current year?
James Harris
>phantom """secure""" >their web store doesn't even use HTTPS
