GOOGLE BTFO

GOOGLE BTFO

First Facebook, Now Google

March madness, am i right?

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-27/oracle-wins-revival-of-billion-dollar-case-against-google

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=FhX6cANaJ6o
9to5google.com/2018/01/23/what-is-google-fuchsia-os/
techdirt.com/articles/20180327/10431439512/insanity-wins-as-appeals-court-overturns-googles-fair-use-victory-java-apis.shtml
arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/oracles-java-api-code-protected-by-copyright-appeals-court-rules/
github.com/dotnet/core/blob/master/LICENSE.TXT
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

lol Oracle resorting to lawsuits to stay relevant.

pennies for google
oracle is pathetic

>8.8billion
>pennies

Is /our Jew/ behind the botnet collapsing?

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Karma

I really hope the Supreme Court picks up this case, otherwise we'll have a fucking terrible precedent set.

HEY GUYS LETS.LEAVE FACEBOOK

USE INSTAGRAM INSTEAD XD

WE TOTALLY SHOWED YOU ZUCCERGBERG XDXD

amerucans are fucking retarded, they will forget this whole faggotry in a week

>March madness
Normalfags keep talking about this but I don't know what it is. I only vaguely think of basketball when I hear it? Is that right? I hate sports. My dad is so disappointed in me.

O B S E S S E D

O B E S E

>8.8 bilions
>pennies for google
>Revenue Increase US$110.85 billion[1] (2017)
Operating income
>Increase US$26.14 billion[1] (2017) Net income
>Decrease US$12.66 billion[1] (2017)
>Total assets Increase US$197.29 billion[1] (2017)
>Total equity Increase US$152.50 billion[1] (2017)

>Google countered that Oracle was just jealous because it did what Oracle could not -- develop an operating system for mobile devices that was free and wildly popular.

Most dumb phones ran Java long before Andriod was around

>Write something in Java
>Have to pay Oracle for the displeasure
How can Java ever recover?

What like don't copy software when you are sick of paying licensing fees.

OBSESSED

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Facebook has actually already started the downward slide in North America. Younger users are probably abandoning it in droves. Hanging out with your parents and barely-related relatives isn't cool.

I live in the south and I hear more about Snapchat then Facebook nowadays.

More like "Oops, we let someone copyright CRUD, now we'll all have to use a different pattern".

Google didn't copy Java's implementation, which is unequivocally protected by copyright. They made a new implementation of Java's APIs, which I personally believe should not be subject to copyright at all.

Is Oracle trying to kys itself? A large part of Java's popularity is android which forces every android dev (mostly pahjet) to deal with Java shit. Can oracle make the same claims for kotlin/any jvm based lang or just java?

>math can't be patented
In your dreams hippie

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Yea, that would be crap.

Remind me again why Android is still written in Java and exactly what version of the jdk does it use?

I hope oracle wins so people move to c#, which is much better

Midwest here. It's all snapchat. FB, insta, & twatter are all dying quickly.

Saying C# is better than Java is like saying my diarrhea is better than prajeets.

>snapchat
owned by facebook

C# is essentially a Microsoft-only toy in reality, and not even as good as Kotlin or Scala or such.

Obviously? We were talking about what platform normies are currently using, not whether its a good choice or not.

So you are saying you are a pajeet?

How is Oracle worth so much goddamn money and why do people even use java?

Snapchat is dying, instagram is the biggest thing now (owned by facebook)

android is a street shitter OS used by poor people.

jdk 6, 7 or 8 are compatible

Maybe on paper, but the majority of its users are "models" or online shops, etc.
Snap chat is hands down bigger in terms of overall usage.

>How is Oracle worth so much goddamn money
Same as applel. Greed and shit products.
>why do people even use java?
Amazon AWS and Google Android.
Ooops!

>Microsoft-only
is that supposed to be bad? everything should be microsoft's

In order to be compatible with Java, certain calls to certain APIs should look about the same. For example, the method that finds that maximum value in a set of numbers is quite sensibly named java.lang.Math.max. Oracle argued that Google could have just called it java.lang.Arith.larger

This case is not about patent, it is about copyright, first of all. Second, it is not so much about "the math", which I'd say is analagous to implementation, but is about the software APIs, which in math is more like "the notion of certain types". Ie, being able to copyright a Java API is like being able to copyright "a function that takes a 3x3 matrix of real numbers and returns a natural number, and is named 'determinant".

If after all this is over APIs are judged to be subject to copyright, it will be extremely detrimental to software development in the United States. It'll impact both proprietary software and open source software (though disproportionatly open source, since simply because the source is available it will be easier to track down violations), and it'll create a huge burden for software developers trying to start a business.

If Oracle wins in the end there will be a mad rush of lawsuits to test the limits of the ruling, and it will be bad for everyone.

java OSs on your dumbphones werent scalable or flexible
and im sure oracle took a cut of java OS shit

I was happy to see Facebook BTFO, but I have a soft spot for Google.

Google still does many good things... I don't want them to die.

There's no point engaging with the retards on this board. All you're going to get is:
> HURR DURR JAVA BAD JEWGLE BAD LMAO ANDROID BTFO

Yeah. Lots of good shit like Golang.. lol

>enjoy your 8.8

Golang is good. Google Docs is good.
They are spearheading AI research.
Many good things.

Android is too big to die.

I wonder what would happen if Google just killed Java on Android in the USA only.

Apart from that, if rulings like this hold the USA is probably just shafted except as a patent / copyright troll battlefield.

>why android in java
because java can be easily ported to any device. android runs on x86 and arm, so portability is a necessity. uploading 1 APK to google play and having it work on every device is a godsend. apple doesnt suffer from these problems because they tightly control their ecosystem, so JIT isnt really necessary there
>what version
jdk8

based oracle

>what's your opinion of Google?
Literally the death of freedom.

>what do you think of Google vs Oracle?
GOOGLE!!!

>Facebook under fire
>Google under fire
hoo boy never thought this was possible, given their political ties and such

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Reminder Google is already planning their exit. ChromeOS/Android will be replaced by their new codename Fuchsia OS:

youtube.com/watch?v=FhX6cANaJ6o

Written in a mix of languages:
>C, C++, Dart, Go, LLVM, Python, Rust, Shell, TypeScript

More about Fuchsia:

> 9to5google.com/2018/01/23/what-is-google-fuchsia-os/

Oracle BTFO

It's still as shitty though.

if oracle really wants things to not share the name, there's a simple solution:
google.lang.Math.max
or, you could do even better:
google.core.Math.max
it removes the copyright infringement (java) and oracle gets less name recognition.

Which is why they want some pennies before they are obselete.

it's already established that APIs aren't copyright-able though, google could've called it Oracle.OfficialJava.FuckLarryEllison.Math if they wanted

Is this why Orashit wasn't able to sue MS for C#? lmao

It being obviously all bull doesn't stop the burger court:
techdirt.com/articles/20180327/10431439512/insanity-wins-as-appeals-court-overturns-googles-fair-use-victory-java-apis.shtml

>it's already established that APIs aren't copyright-able though
Nope. Alsup initially ruled that APIs were not copyrightable, Oracle appealed and an appeals court ruled that they were subject to copyright.
arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/oracles-java-api-code-protected-by-copyright-appeals-court-rules/

That's why Google needed to make a fair use argument instead of being let off the hook entirely. Google also petitioned the Supreme Court, but they didn't take up the issue.

My understanding from intense wikipedia study is that:
- copyright cannot protect an idea, merely the expression of an idea
- if an idea has an obvious practical realization that people would independently arrive at when implementing it, that is not protected

t's obvious that "a collection of these functions with these names taking parameters in this order with these types" is an expression of an idea of an API. But something like "a networking module should have a function to open a TCP socket, a UDP socket, a RAW socket, ..." is an idea and cannot be copyrighted.

Similarly, I really doubt that a copyright on a determinant function could be upheld - the determinant is an idea, and a function with that interface is the one obvious expression of it necessitated by non-retardation.

This ruling is worrying, but I don't think it's THAT big. My prediction is that there will be some eager "copyright talking to a computer over HTTP" nonsense that gets shot down, and only very specific instances of "these 15 functions with these names verbatim" will be deemed copyrightable.

Honestly, there's no way this could harm Google in the long run, not a big deal. They have plenty of plans already to move on from Java and make a better OS. Oracle can have their candy like the crybabbies that they are, dragging those lawsuits for many years for big corp pennies.

I don't believe APIs should be subject to copyright because they represent not only a textual expression meant to inform a compiler what is allowable, but also a mental model that the programmer must internalize to write software. This mental model is naturally something that a programmer will apply to future work, more similar to learning a skill than regurgitating a novel. Allowing APIs to be copyrighted forces pointless changes to ideas that must necessarily be expressed for the day-to-day work of a programmer. That this permits the re-implementation of software like Oracle's Java is hardly a great loss. In fact, I think allowing APIs to be copyrighted would be quite detrimental, an could have eliminated the productive competition and cross-pollination that exists between POSIX-compliant OSes, shells, Java implementations, and perhaps browsers.

(Continued)

>C# is essentially a Microsoft-only toy in reality
.NET Core has ran on Linux for a long time. And that ignores Mono as well.

Their argument wasnt about scalable or flexible, which it was, nearly every non-shit phone ran it as did countless other embedded devices like TV set top boxes, their argument was wether it was popular. And making some free or not has zero impact on copyright.

>Which is why they want some pennies before they are obselete.
Oracle sued them 8 months after they bought Sun Microsystems back in 2010/11

That they not only consider APIs to be copyrightable, but also that Google's use is not fair use sets a worrying precedent in my opinion. If I have a large Java codebase, but I want to ditch Oracle's Java implementation, perhaps because their implementation is unsuitable for my resource-constrained device or they haven't fixed some critical bugs and I care about my customers' security, I can't write and distribute re-implementation suitable for my use case without paying royalties to Oracle? In this example, as in Google's, the vast majority of all the work that went into the project was not Oracle's. I wrote not only the large software stack above the Java APIs but took the extra step of re-implementing the entire standard library (not copying Oracle's implementation and changing what I wanted to change). The two halves of the project merely communicate using the API that Oracle originally designed, a thin wrapping paper around the real meat of the work. In any case, it'd be mostly mechanical to change to not match Oracle's implementation. Unlike the text of a book, which cannot be mechanically transformed into another phrasing without losing it's meaning, there are many ways an API can be written which a programmer will consider essentially equivalent.

I will say that APIs should be covered by patents rather than copyright, if you accept software patents at all. An API in a language like Idris, for instance, could represent an invention. Uderstanding that C++ templates are Turing complete makes it obvious why if software is patentable, APIs are as well.

ANDROID IS A JAVA VM

THIS HAS BEEN KNOWN SINCE DAY ONE

This was a thoughtful response. The "needless reshuffling" argument is one that compels me to agree that API copyright doesn't make that much sense.

I also largely agree with the patent point. They can be an annoying thorn in the side of software speciation, esp. on the FLOSS side of things, but overall I think software patents (and patents in general) are a good thing; this is mostly due to their strict time horizon (unlike eternally expanding copyright).

>$8.8 billion loss
>stock only down -4.57%
I really expected it to be far worse. Nvidia announced that they are suspending self-driving car tests and got hammered down -7.75%.

This. The implications are huge, specially for quite a few free software projects. Things like WINE and ReactOS are obvious examples. Something tells me it won't be a problem for ReactOS, though, I don't see other countries following. We don't even have software patents in the EU.

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>VM
Actually Android applications are compiled into native code at the time of installation, rather than at runtime. Nothing happens in a VM.

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It's already happened. Everyone under 22-23 I know uses Instagram and Snapchat for everything, and checks Facebook like once a day. Facebook to them is like a family and friends "resume" of how cool they are but they don't actually post any status updates, because their family and boss and whatever other will see it. Once the old people realize they're not really talking to people anymore they won't bother either.

I've never really used social media but I created a Facebook account just to stop offending people by appearing strong socially and then saying "no i don't have Facebook". Everyone just thought I was lying and didn't want to add them, it was impossible for me not to be using Facebook.

I deleted my Facebook account recently after telling 2 people I did talk to that I wasn't going to use it and added them on other messengers. Not a single person noticed or commented that i deleted it, not even the girl I'm fucking nearly everyday, everyone just kind of knows Facebook is irrelevant these days.

Now people will think I lie about not having Instagram. Fuck social media cancer.

That's a tasty chunk

Yes like collecting your google searches and gmails for the nsa.
Plebian.

Why are all big cases revolve around semantics? It's such trivial stuff. 8.8 Billion in damages just for leaving the name java in some of their code that's part of a free and widely used operating system?

I think it's more because of Larry Ellison's pride than anything else. The guy is obsessed with Google.

>swallowing Google fake news cum
>not knowing what a VM is

>not knowing what a compiler is

This judgement in favor of Oracle is long overdue IMHO A few years ago, I remember doing a hobby App using threads, looking up the API, and thinking, "this looks familiar." Visited the Google API page, then the java API page for threads and seeing it copied word-for-word. The copyright on the API alone should have made this a slam-dunk case for Oracle during the first lawsuit. I am convinced that Google must have had child-molestation pics of the first judge or something. There was no way Oracle should have been forced to goto appeals.

> Google could OwO Oracle
Fixed

>Gives out Java
>"Hey guys use this for whatever you want..."
>Google uses it for whatever they want
>"WAIT NO WHAT THE FUCK STOP"

Memes from 2016. Also that would be great chance to destroy google, but investors hate this kind of risks, so you can forgot this shit. Even linux foundation made a similar project with linaro.

>.NET Core has ran on Linux for a long time. And that ignores Mono as well.
.NET core is just an excuse for calling .Net be cross platform. Literally a weak EEE strategy.

>.NET core is just an excuse for calling .Net be cross platform. Literally a weak EEE strategy.
It is cross platform and it is retarded to call it a EEE strategy when they open sourced it under a MIT license:

github.com/dotnet/core/blob/master/LICENSE.TXT

Calling API implementation a copyright infringement is the problem here. Of course it's bs, but whatever if it's kicks google.

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Based Stallman getting his way and fighting for our freedoms

It's a gateway drug. You have to freeze the code if you want implement a backend even from full fledged .net. Now imagine the shitshow if you wanted to port from something else.

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The API and specific itself is the copyrighted material not the exact implementation.

>You have to freeze the code if you want implement a backend even from full fledged .net. Now imagine the shitshow if you wanted to port from something else.

No really. Pic related is the backend of the app i'm working on now. Obviously the GUI portion of the frontend which uses WPF could never be ported to another platform directly, but it wouldnt be that difficult to rewrite it to use a different GUI API, other than finding a different graphing library (SciChart). And all the logic of the frontend is covered in .NET core.

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And >inb4 it isnt 100% supported on pure .NET Core. Thats because it uses JSON .NET and visual studio isnt smart enough to know that JSON .NET works on .NET Core.

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Maybe 8 million is pennies but 8 billion is a sizeable dent.

Holy shit you wrote all that without understanding the post you were replying to at all.