Was he the greatest artist of the 20th century?

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No fucking way

not even top 1,000

and yes, I have an exhaustive list that I will not post here

Give me 5

No, Stravinsky is.

Even if you were exclusively referring to artists in popular music, there are hundreds of artists who did not resort to putting out childish comedy rock for the majority of their career. Tim Buckley and Don Van Vliet both come to mind.

Hitler was the greatest artist of the 20th century. The 3rd Reich is a masterpiece of conceptual/performance art. And 9/11 is the greatest single work of art of this century.

go back to hell, Stockhausen

You know he was also a genius composer of hundreds of modern compositions? The humour was just a part of it.

XD
funny post user

No the man who made this was

just cuz u put out 80 albums of pure WANK (aka "jazz") doesnt mean youre good, let alone the greatest

>implying humor doesn't belong in music

You're right man, I will go drown myself in your shifty bubble gum music. Just because you don't understand anything more than 3 guitar chords doesn't mean it's bad.

humor belongs in music for sure

the best thigns he ever did were freak out, sheik yerbouti, and joes garage in that order

because they were funny

his jazz takes itself too seriously and theres WAYYY too much of it

>3 guitar chords

its massively densely orchestrated you can hardly even hear the guitar

>pop is just shitty 3 guitar chord bubble gum music
>not literally the soundtrack to your life

time to grow up, lad.

What does that even mean?

Stop pretending pop is shitty. It doesn't make you cool.

youtube.com/watch?v=ygBT4nMw-Zg

WOW BRILLIANT

He's good, but there were hundreds of better artists

I remember posting pet sounds, not music from the height of his mental illness

Don Van Vliet's most acclaimed work is literally a comedy meme album.

youtube.com/watch?v=y9P2V0_p6vE

WOW BRILLIANT

ill give you that its funny but for someone who prided himself on being a compositional mind he relied way too much on improv

How can you even quantify that there are so many great artists

>WOW BRILLIANT
I know, right? Glad you agree with us.

What's wrong with a mix of both? Also, I thought this was a thread for music appreciation. I'm not trying to be cool by hating pop music, but honestly why are you here?

Are Zappafags the most annoying fags? I honestly don't know if there are worse. Maybe TOOL fags. Yeah, TOOL fags come real close.

Zappa is better than Stockhausen.

Something taking itself too seriously is not a legitimate criticism. What matters is whether it's good or not. Compositionally and technically, Zappa's jazz is pretty top-notch.

youtube.com/watch?v=7K9Q6AsiqUk

4 straight minutes of more "music"

Nice job judging an artist by their fan base

i like a mix of both

bands like funkadelic did it rite on
youtube.com/watch?v=PeeYUXjp_ro

yes it is a legit criticism when he sold himself on his humor
its a shame because i think freak out is one of the funniest albums ever after some ween stuff

>what is avant-garde?

what is field recordings passing itself off as brilliant norm-challenging "avant-garde"-ness

i swear that word has done nothing but lowered the bar for music fuck the french

Yeah, you cherry picked his most avant-album, good job. youtu.be/qYMRTUet4iI listen to this and tell me it's bad

>yes it is a legit criticism when he sold himself on his humor
[citation needed]

i LOVE his doo-woppy stuff and the jazz influenced rock dont get me wrong

ruben and the jets is one of my favs

its just his output is SOOOO hit or miss

even on his better songs like peaches in regalia i really only like half ish of the song it goes back and forth between pleasant wank and tasteless wank

No, Johnny Rebel was.

I'm not saying I hate Zappa or that all of his music is bad, but the levels of commercial pandering reached in the majority of his music makes claims of Zappa being "the greatest artist of the 20th century" laughable at best.

His orchestral compositions pale in comparison to those of any celebrated composer of the 20th century. On the other hand, the majority of his rock albums are filled with unfunny crude humor and unnecessarily complexity, both of which he admitted were nothing more than attempts at venturing into the mainstream. I'd be embarrassed to claim that he was the best artist of the 20th century, while so many other equally talented artists retained their artistic integrity.
youtube.com/watch?v=YMdhWRO4-dQ
youtube.com/watch?v=PvAQLiwydrA
youtube.com/watch?v=u4hzVpYAP-U
What you'll find in these tracks isn't anything close to well-aimed humor, and I'm not even cherry picking. The majority of his music consists of childish satire with a complete lack of subtlety. It's embarassing that people like Scaruffi would claim this is a significant contribution to the "sexual revolution" (I'm not sure that Scaruffi or Zappa fans have a clue what they're trying to say in defense of this garbage).
His best albums are Freak Out (because of just how influential it is in rock music, rather than the mediocre attempt at satire found in the lyrics) and Hot Rats (because he completely forgoes the gimmicky "avant-garde" tape loops as well as his poor sense of humor).
It's a brilliant fusion of jazz and the blues, but there's no point in attempting to explain that to someone as ignorant as you.

he put out an entire album called "does humor belong in music" and was very vocal in interviews about the fact that it does

Few years back I'd say yes. But I don't know. He's up there, but there's so many good artists.
Don't forget there's a ton of modern composers, like Varise or Stravinsky, both of who influenced Zappa greatly.

the mediocre satire ur bashing is actually what he was best at, he really was not cut out to be a composer

he rushed shit he put out 6 albums in one year once

But he released several serious albums with no lyrics at all.

yea those albums were laughable XD he never stopped including humor in his music

>but the levels of commercial pandering reached in the majority of his music
What are you meaning here? It seems he was being intentionally difficult and attempting to alienate the mainstream for much of his career.

>yea those albums were laughable
How so? (aside form the fact it disproves your logic)
>he never stopped including humor in his music
Do you only listen to the lyrics?

ok thanks

that was a bait response i was implying they were laughable because i dont like them

Why not?

montie GET OUT GO GET OUT DONT COME BACK zappa>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>radiohead
why do u have such nu male taste if youre a conservative

the problem with alot of zappa's stuff along with jazz in general is that when its largely based on improvisation, you have seconds of pleasurable music followed by unorganized sounds which is worse then a whole song's worth of organized composed sounds

>pleasurable
Not relevant
>unorganized
A musical scale is not organized?

jazz often doesn't even obey scales

pleasure and enjoyment is very relevant to the way i listen to music, i guess if i decided who was great and what i listened to based on whether or not it would impress people then i could see why it's not relevant

The style of much of Zappa's humor was satire. Whether you agree with it, whether you think its crude, the point is the message it gets across. A lot of Zappa's appeal was his message and personality, of which his humor was a huge part. Because his type of humor was so offensive and crude, you can't really call his more humor-based albums "sell-out" albums.

yea that guys a scaruffi tier pseudo intellectual himself

>jazz often doesn't even obey scales
[citation needed]
>mah subjectivity
Just stop posting anytime

Memes aside, all these things could be true.

Nice opinion, dude.

if youre improvising music, flailing away wildly at saxophone pads or tapping all over a guitar fretboard, you are BOUND to hit notes that are not in the scale you intended on playing

How long have you been playing your instrument?

Reminder Zappa's first album was
>The second double album
>The first use of parody in rock music
>The first rock opera
>The first concept album
>The first use of the studio as an instrument
>Had the first prog rock music
>All in 1966
Literally the most inventive artist in rock history. There is no arguing this.

i was referring to who you were responding to

i love zappa's satire and satire in general

the way he paced humor in accordance with his music was genuinely brilliant

youtube.com/watch?v=bXzteDzazjY

about 4 or 5 weeks ;^)

inventive=/=greatest

>Zappafags

Get out of my board you cringey retards and go back to dadrock rock guitar forum where you belong

Guess that's the difference between professionals (who played with Zappa) and amateurs (who didn't).

>inventive=/=greatest
Good thing Zappa was both

Hey, fucknugget, I like TMR a whole fucking lot. What I don't understand is why you put it on a pedestal even though it has some incredibly childish and "comedic" lyrics while you shit on Zappa for the same thing.

Anything Zappa did after 1970 was terrible but I LOVE his 60s stuff. Pic related is his best and if you hate his "comedy" period you might love it.

Woodie Guthrie and Frank Sinatra both had concept albums before Zappa, but I could see the argument that it was the first conscious concept album rather than a coincidence that all the songs happened to be about the same subject.

I think Scaruffi would beg to differ
scaruffi.com/vol1/zappa.html

dude literally has better ratings than any artist ever.

LMAO "professionals"

beefheart was about as untrained musically as they come

oh cant forget about other classically trained geniuses he surrounded himself with like wild man fischer

>dadrock
When will this meme die?

>beefheart
You mean the artist that Zappa mentored and produced?

Name one person who played in the Mothers who wasn't a master of their craft.

I'll wait.

>Zappa

When will this meme end? Oh wait he died on 1993. Good fucking riddance

Daily reminder Captain Beefheart would not exist without Zappa, like, at all.

Eccentric does not mean good or artistic or even contributing

i didn't know scaruffi liked to come on Sup Forums

zappa and his bandmates with the exception of le gooby fish head man were beyond talented musicians

zappa was not THE GREATEST compositional mind of the 20th century however

hard working and innovative

not THE GREATEST

amazing guitarist

decent composer at best

All more reason to hate him

what does then?

really tmr is the most embarassing mark on zappas career and THE FACT THAT scaruffi enjoys that shit is preposterous

Thanks for telling me what I should consider to be art

>disliking Beefheart
go listen to Grimes my man

You should probably wait until you know more about music to come back to that pal. I suggest stop listening to Chvrches first though.

Listen to him. He's probably smarter than you.
At least grimes can write a cohesive melody you rockist retard

the ability to write TIMELESS classics that can be appreciated as much by your great grandfather as your acid-soaked nephew and get better upon every listen like link related

youtube.com/watch?v=chtmIJ1wYc4

>implying scaruffi enjoys the albums he gives good reviews

HEY LEAVE LAVREN ALONE DONT BRING HER INTO THIS

>waifu fag discrediting my argument
plz dont use the work "rockist" LMAO

>Its a brilliant fusion of jazz and blues
literally zappa

>Walt Disney soundtrack
>Hallmark Greeting Card lyrics
>crappy sounding mix
no thanks

there is literally no arguing this. Zappa contributed more to music with one album than any artist ever, save maybe the Velvet Underground.

>grimes
>cohesive melody
maybe if you like the p4k flavor of the month artists only, then yes. Go listen to more industry plugs my dude. How's your waifu thread going?

I don't like Zappa's later stuff, but I would argue his 60s output is much more timeless than that of most of the Beach Boys, which is pretty exclusive to that era, while Zappa's stuff can always be traced back to albums created today directly.

zappa looks like a muppet tbqhwu famalam

i dont disagree

>disney soundtrack
like fantasia?
>hallmark greeting card lyrics
never remember buying a birthday card with a message referencing a bad lsd trip
>crappy sounding mix
its an unreleased version of the song why don't u just look up the remastered version
also the mix does not reflect the artist's compositional ability

>referencing a bad lsd trip
What song are you referring to? Sloop JB is an old folk song.
>why don't u just look up the...
I shouldn't have to. Your argument should be self sufficient, shouldn't it?
>also the mix does not reflect the artist's compositional ability
Who produced the album again?

Face it. Pet Sounds is just Christmas music for frogposters and feelguys.

>the mix does not reflect the artist's compositional ability
It does in Zappa's case, who would often mix all of his own material thank you

>Stravinsky
no thank you

At least grimes doesnt hide her music with petty experimentation. aimless noodling, and weak satire like Zappa and Beefheart

Her music is more honest than theirs

>the ability to write TIMELESS classics that can be appreciated as much by your great grandfather as your acid-soaked nephew and get better upon every listen like link related
Then I know someone who has Brian "Sandbox" Wilson beat.

I don't think you get the "point" of experimentation, pal. Plus even if you don't like Zappa, he's influenced far more music than any others, including Grimes. Thanks.

>Her music is more honest than theirs
If you think "honest" is something created by indie marketing teams, sure

referencing "hang on to your ego" later retitled "i know theres an answer"

pet sounds is the most cohesive and personal pop album of all times it really should be a part of the classical cannon

any version of his stuff you'll find today is remixed and remastered by someone else

unless you have original pressing vinyls you're not listening to his mix

were trying to find out whos the greatest artist of the 20th century here not the best audio engineer

(steve albini btw)

>Beefheart using satire
>Also implying satire isn't honest
Christ