how the fuck are you supposed to learn a standard by ear?
like I can get the melody and usually the bassline ok but how do you figure out the chords? also I've read various places that learning standards by ear is the best way to start playing jazz? is this true or just a troll or something?
also general jazz discussion or whatever
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soudns like a meme to me
just learn the chord from the real book
well I dunno, ain't there a harmony implied by the bass line and melody? You don't necessarily need all the ornamentation or flourishes or fancy chord substitutions but I don't see why you can't figure out how to comp to a recording. . . ?
I wouldn't recommend learning pieces by ear on this one
well...
To figure out the chords if you don't know what the symbols mean you're going to have to do some research or take some lessons
I agree with Buy the authorised music , it'll be a lot easier
also, if you're going for performance I'd pull in as many published versions as you can
Are you jazz illiterate or baiting or something? Substitutions are an enormous part of jazz, the chords can be improvised at times, so, substitutions or a slightly different sound may be needed. Don't be a dickhead.
A lot of more advanced players will tell you they learn by ear. It's a lot more difficult than it is in some genres of music because of the usage of extensions. There are generally harmonies implied in the baseline, but the extensions come from having a really good ear for chords and chord quality. It's possible to master but its difficult. Plus, I'm not really sure how you would so it in a song like Naima where the bass plays a pedal almost the whole time. real books at, however, notoriously wrong often.
just figure out what chords lead to another. get an ear for music. most of the time if you hear a C7 it WILL resolve to some kind of Fmajor or Fm. these are the kind of things you have to listen for.
also the bassline does tell you the chords to play but if some guys bring you in totally unprepared for a song like giant steps and tells you to "listen for the changes" with no charts, you shouldnt be playing with him
real books are wrong a lot of the time, but they give you a foundation to work off of. its better than nothing honestly
It's not a meme, it's a good habit to get into, as it will help you a great deal with ear training, but it might not be a great idea until you have learned AT LEAST one standard from an actual lead sheet.
It's something that's pretty difficult when you start but will get much easier the more you do it. If you can figure out the melody and the bassline then you're most of the way there already.
After you have a pretty good idea of the bassline and the melody the next step is to figure out the quality of the chord. This isn't usually too hard because it's going to be either major or minor most of the time. From there it's mostly going to be a game of trial and error trying to figure out any extensions or alterations.
Like I said the more you do it, the easier it will get and you will start recognizing common patterns like ii V I and all the substitutions of ii V I's or when a ii V resolves somewhere unexpected (as happens a lot in the tune you posted in the OP).
On that subject, to start out you will probably also want to avoid trying to transcribe jazz tunes that were written after 1960. In general they're going to have a lot of ambiguous harmony and more complicated voicings.
Stick with "classic" standards to begin with and try your best. If you're stumped on a chord, skip it and come back after you've figured out all the other chords in its phrase. If you get done with the tune and you still can't figure it out then consult a published lead sheet for help.
I agree with you on the last remark. I generally find that I will learn a song more thoroughly if I attempt it by ear first, checking my guesses with the Real Book and altering what sounds wrong to me.
Thanks for your help jazz people
If you can't figure the chords by listening to it the bassline works too.
Bass in jazz generally is a "walking" bass, which means that they just arpeggiate the chords with quarter notes.
If you transcribe the bassline, you can get out the chords since unless you have half a bar the bass will walk over the 3rd and 7th.
If the chords are altered that's harder, but anyway once you have the basic chord down it's easy to see whether it's lacking something.
I've always found it pretty difficult to determine the harmony just from the bass. For one thing, on a lot of older recordings it can be pretty hard to hear the bass at times. And then there are the times when you can hear the bass but it's still nearly impossible to discriminate between the minor 3rd or major 3rd just because of tuning or intonation.
how much theory should I jnow before I start trying to play jazz? is the mark levine theory book good for beginners or does it start out with advanced concepts?
Well that's the theory, the truth is what you said, however if you have the bassline and the melody getting the base of the chord is usually doable.
Anyway unTIL you get a good ear no matter what you do, it'll be mostly a task of trial and error, and trying to deduce the chords you can't hear based on the ones you already have.
I would say it's a good idea to understand the construction and function of all the different kinds of seventh chords and to have some experience doing some harmonic analysis of classical music.
I think the Levine book assumes that you know about that much, so if you do it would be a good starting point.
anybody want to rec some cool jazz?
>to understand the construction and function of all the different kinds of se
>i
I recommend that you spend that time listening to bebop and hard bop instead
wat
>ards by ear is the
troll confirmed
>end.sub
check out 50's releases by Chico Hamilton and Jimmy Giuffre
chet baker
Is this a bot or something?
Why
Just listen to birth of the cool. Still the best cool jazz album
Cool jazz was the first step in whites killing jazz
Fuck you
>I'm 16 and really into jazz
Ayler, Sanders the list goes on
I think Im finally starting to dig On the Corner
IASW=best Miles album
2nd quintet albums are all better
>real books are wrong a lot of the time
literally give me a source where the real book was wrong
there's lots , written music is an approximation
real book is written by music students writing the chords down off the record. The records were often blurry and maybe the musicians made mistakes, so there's a lot of room for interpretation. A jazz standard in the real book isn't like a Beethoven sonata, it's an approach to what the musicians could have meant.
Solfege exercises. Work your way up to at least 4 part exercises and after a while you'll be able to hear the chords clearly. Also practice quartal harmony lines and patterns, pianists use it quite often.
Footprints turnaround
Why is it only white, teenage, hip hop fans who think this?
Hey jtg! Sorry to bother you, but can you maybe give me 25-30 of your favourite records so I can drone you?
Okay, my tone was kind of condescending, but I just mean to say that you don't have to nail the chords on your first try, and that there's plenty of ways to get from point A to point B. I dunno.
Bitches Brew is still the best desu
What does this mean? I know what solfege is but what are four part exercises?
Agharta is the best.
how do I get into jazz?
Thanks
>Solfege exercises. Work you
gosh, and I just sang F G B
sorry , I typed again
When doing ear training for chords, where do you even start? I know jazz use a lot of extensions and stuff, but can I just realistically jump in, or do I have to start with like 2 notes played at the same time to 3 note chords or something? Also how does it work? Most of the apps I found online all focus on intervals which doesn't really help much.
...
this
Well if you have trouble identifying two notes played in unison then start there until that gets easy for you. Then move on to triads, then seventh chords then start adding more extensions.
You can make your own way of quizzing yourself. Just make 3 second recordings of yourself playing all the different chord combinations then put them all in a playlist and shuffle the playlist.
There's an app for Android that gives you interval and chord exercises that is quite helpful, it's called my ear trainer or something.
just fucking listen to it
Reminder to participate in the weekly /BLINDFOLD TEST/ threads if you like listening to and/or discussing jazz. It's a fun way to discover new jazz and discuss it with other jazz fans.
We all listen to the playlist of mystery tracks, write down our thoughts, criticisms, evaluations, and or guesses about the music and artists, then post them in Friday's thread.
www78.zippyshare.com
This week's theme won't be revealed until when the track info is revealed on saturday.
A chart I made for getting into jazz a few days ago.
If you're on the edge about the genre, give this a go!
Spotted the rockist
just get really good at ear training to figure out tonics and major/minor and then learn how to think in roman numerals like identifying ii-V-I's and all that stuff
this only works for relatively simple standards tho for reharms like good fuckin luck
>walking bass is just arpeggiating chords
holy shit
does this one have track 6 fixed?
Yes
Tbh, Birth of the Cool is a fucking masterpiece. It took me a while to really understand it, but I think it's one of the pinnacles of the cool jazz era.
I think sketches of Spain is one of my favorite albums Gil Evans was a part of though.
Who are some other composers and arrangers like Gil Evans?
This is amazing.
Anything similar to this?
I haven't heard At the Five Spot so this might be way off but Booker Little's Out Front is an awesome album featuring Dolphy.
Obviously Ellington and Mingus.
Also Thad Jones, Rod Levitt, Toshiko Akiyoshi.
If you don't know about Maria Schneider, she was basically Gil Evans' protege and people have called her his "spiritual successor".
because white people fucking love to complain about white people
>Who are some other composers and arrangers like Gil Evans?
Mingus is like the good version of Gil Evans
why is all modern jazz such garbage?
>pposed to learn a standard by ear?
it isn't
something is happening, that is happening, and that's what it's doing so that's what it is
>tldr Radio 3
It's not though.
wtf is going on with these posts?
Not as good as Relaxin'
Basically every Bird melody, Footprints, The Sphinx doesn't have the bridge, Desafinado dropped a few bars, EVERY SINGLE MONK TUNE
Hey, what do you think of my chart? I think yours is really great but might be intimidating for novices to navigate through the styles, which is what prompted mine.
I'm going to definitely settle all discusions regarding Miles Davis, here I go:
His best album is Jack Johnson.
Why do generalizations make you sound like a retard
what modern jazz have you listened to and what makes it garbage?
mfw he's only heard BBNG, Fire Orchestra, and Kamasi
REC ME SOME GOOD MODERN JAZZ PLS
i already like this
William Parker
Steve Lehman
Leszek Mozdzer
Fire Orchestra is good though.
Matana Roberts
Ambrose Akinmusire
Steve Lehman
Vijay Iyer
Matthew Shipp
Alex Sipiagin
Is Kamasi Washington really that bad of a sax player? Who are some better sax players who are making music right now who have a similar style?
The last time I asked something like this somebody told me Chris Potter but I think his playing is very different and too technical for me to follow or enjoy.
It's a good idea but there's some weird things about it. The Rock/Hip Hop/Electronic sections seems more like just general good starter albums. I think for rock and hip hop fans I'd probably recommend more fusion. For electronic artists there are a some good artists fusing jazz and electronic music right now. Which brings up another point... there's not much on there recorded after 1980. Last thing... where do metal fans start? I actually have quite a few friends who were huge metal fans before moving into jazz.
>Is Kamasi Washington really that bad of a sax player?
It's not that he's bad. It's just that there are so many better sax players. I think he sounds like your average grad student who's into Coltrane and Pharaoh Sanders.
>Who are some better sax players who are making music right now who have a similar style?
Here are 10 off the top of my head:
Abraham Burton
Mark Shim
Walter Smith III
Ravi Coltrane
Tim Warfield
Tony Malaby
Ralph Bowen
Mark Turner
Chris Speed
Stacy Dillard
It's obviously flawed, like any other chart, but I think it gives listeners a jumping off point.
> The Rock/Hip Hop/Electronic sections seems more like just general good starter albums
It's more about moulding the music to what is familiar to the listener. Rock/hiphop/ele music is generally non-offensive, ""in key"", and has predictable structure (ie. modal jazz and similar).
>I think for rock and hip hop fans I'd probably recommend more fusion
You might be right.
>There's not much on there recorded after 1980
Again, it's more of a jumping off point into jazz. It's not supposed to be crazy diverse but rather give listeners some stuff that might connect with them, so the choices aren't intended to be an essentials list or anything.
>where do metal fans start?
Metal would probably be the most difficult because I find metal to be a very close-minded genre (ie. "metal heads" don't have the most diverse musical background). Some might find that offensive but whatever.
I'd probably say just use the rock section, and if it doesn't click it doesn't click.
Thanks for the input!