So both the TMT, Consequence of Sound and Quietus reviews mention the Grimm vs. Gira case, the Quietus even dedicating four paragraphs of its review to discuss it
How is it even relevant to the album?
The accusation is from an incident 8 years ago, I understand context, but it's not even in context to say that the accusation has anything to do with the album's content
sweet sweet clicks bro. It'll pop up on a googlel search for swans rape or gira rape.
>both
>lists 3 reviews
are swans fans retarded like their rapist rolemodel gira?
We're getting closer and closer to the moment when this pressure to out-holy all the holier-than-thou PC fucks around you will just crush all libtards altogether.
Music journalists in general are the scum of the earth, the absolute lowest of the low. Not TMZ camera crews, not video game journalists (although I understand they could use some ethical indoctrination), not Gawker smear artists, not Buzzfeed listicle aggregators.
Music journalism is by far the scourge of timeline spam and content for the sake of content. Just ask Ryan Schreiber.
Every single major publication review is a waste of time.
Dude, you're a retard. My favorite liberal funny man said that liberal idealism is rooted in reality so you sound like a total dumbass right now.
There's more than just a subtle difference between being a liberal and a libtard, dude.
>[joke]
I know that you were joking, but I'm quite serious as I actually still mostly identify as a liberal.
If you aren't willing to engage political opposition and have an open and rational discourse, you are basically a right wing libtard.
>OH NO! HE TOLD A JOKE!
>if you're not prepared to engage every single opinion that differs from your own on a public forum I can comfortably dismiss you
This is why people don't take the modern left seriously.
>If you aren't willing to engage political opposition and have an open and rational discourse-
Stop right there, user.
You dropped your hat.
ok yeah that went over my head, but still the point stands even against your lazy ad hom.
Im not even a lefty btw.
>but it's not even in context to say that the accusation has anything to do with the album's content
You're living in the age of the celebrity. 90% of the reason people listen, or don't listen, to a certain artist is because of their media presence or image. Album reviews must focus on these things.
And they have to write about it especially when rape allegations are in play. It would be dumb for them to ignore it because that's what everyone (everyone) is talking about. If they ignored it, people would complain they're ignoring and trivializing sexual violence.
epic!!!one(1)!!!!
...
>This is why people don't take the modern left seriously.
you mean, in your experience of life on a cantonese book burning enthusiast imageboard
>consequence of sound
they gave that piece of shit album Camp an A- so I cannot take anything they say seriously
Of course it went over your head; you're a total fucking moron.
This isn't what discourse looks like. I'm not obligated to engage every single hot opinion just to fulfill your criteria of what an upstanding party fetishist should look like. What the fuck is wrong with you?
No, I mean this tripfaggot is representative of an entire zeitgeist of campus liberalism and people that grew up in daycare centers and were taught that screaming the loudest / being the most obnoxious gets you what you want.
The TMT review handles it well in that it brings the accusations up with regards to the absolution that might come with the predominant theme of transcendence, but the reviewer doesn't let the publicity of the issue really influence the score or overall view of the album. However, I do find it odd that they gave it a 6/10 given that the review was mostly praising the album. I'm not quite sure why they spend time complimenting the band's ability to let go of the self and reach some sort of higher plane of being, letting the music and repetition flow in a sort of sonic determinism, only to criticize it for its de-individualized qualities and no wave influence that guts it of a lot of the melodies/hooks on prior modern-Swans projects. Ultimately, I doubt the allegations factored into the score that much—they just seem to find it a bit bland. Of course it would be much more obvious in terms of the rape allegations if Pitchfork gave it a 6/10...
why are you so angry
be honest, have you had sex even once in your life
You are just a rude poster and I want nothing to do with you. Your engaging my ill informed opinion on your post tho, so that's good enof 4 me.
SEE YA NERD!
the album could be literally fart noises and then the songs When Will I Return and The Glowing Man and it would still be higher than a 6
>virgin meme
Lowbrow backpedaling, cowboy.
You shout ad hom, I am engage, and you commit ad hom. Based retard.
BASED RETARD TRIPFAG.
Only on TMT. Wait until you start checking out their film reviews.
so you are definitely a virgin then
So you definitely don't fill criteria for not being a libtard.
This is why you don't engage here.
Apply pressure to any of you skinny nu-male faggots and all you can do is spout Internet meme.
Tip top tip.
>
>quietus
who
>2016
>STILL caring about reviews
A review doesn't make an album good or bad, the music does. If you care about reviews that badly, you're a mindless drone. Fact.
>thinking a significant number of people here legitimately care about a review score
Reviews are part of the dialogue surrounding art. Being interested in them and refuting them does not mean you're a mindless drone whose taste is dictated by music critics. Do you seriously think most people here give precedence to review scores over the actual music?
I'm the user who (half) jokingly predicted that Pitchfork would give it a 1.8 and spend most of the review whining about "male entitlement" and "rape culture"
Looks like I predicted it for the wrong zine. Though Pitchfork still hasn't reviewed it yet, so there's still time...
It's interesting that Swans was not mentioned in the headline of the "new releases you should know"
pitchfork.com
It's almost as if they're trying to hide it. Or no longer think it's some kind of big thing. Three no name rappers/pop artists got mentioned before it.
Damn Straight
>Do you seriously think most people here give precedence to review scores over the actual music?
Yes. Yes i do. I have no reason to believe that the people on here AREN'T that easily influenced.
When you're a journalist, this kind of bs is your bread and butter.
It's weird but I'm praying for Fantano right now. The man likes MDE and interviewed men's rights guys so I doubt he'd bring this shit up.
TMT gave Titus Andronicus' TMLT a 5/5 and omitted it from their end of the year list. They're often fickle, oft pretentious people.
Would you rather you ended up paying for an album not knowing the guy who made it was a rapist?
i don't give a shit, i bought it to listen to music, not ponder the musician's personal affairs
Why would anybody care?
I barely think of these people as journalists. Journalists are people who take real risks with their craft, do some digging and real reporting.
Some of them even put themselves in war zones and risk being harmed, or blackmailed, or jailed by authoritarian regimes.
The type of person that writes lazy clickbait for an internet rag isn't a journalist.
Regardless of your opinion on the case, it's a really fucking important thing to mention in the review. It's not like with Sun Kil Moon where sure, it was a dickish thing to say...but nothing necessarily "evil" or otherwise deeply morally questionable. Rape is a big fucking deal.
And if you read the TMT review, you would realize that they FOCUSED upon the musical content of the record. But you didn't. You just lept to a conclusion because you're a butthurt teenager who's angry that people don't like your shitty record.
Go back to /r/ you fucking activist loser.
Music journalist is not real journalist
Historically this is only the case for reviews which in themselves are of some kind of artistic worth. With no musical criticism has ever been ever. Maybe Scruffy.
I'm a 'libtard' and I wouldn't give a shit
This
The average Vice nu-male with late nineteenth-century facial hair and suspenders will put more on the line than these faggots.
who would have thought nobody wants to talk politics with you on the music board huh
the requests board?
Preach, brotha!
R E K T
E
K
T
Spam filter.
How old are you?
It's amazing, more than I could have expected. Swans have done it again.
This board is full of summer at the moment who have ruined the reputation of this album. I don't even take anything this board says about music seriously anymore, let alone what this board says about Swans.
Because someone who raped someone else now has more money thanks in part to you? I guess if that doesn't put you in a moral quandary then there's nothing more I can really say.
older than ur mom t b h
>It's amazing, more than I could have expected. Swans have done it again.
they literally do the same thing over and over
listen to real music like burt bacharach
Why does anyone give a damn about these types of reviews to begin with?
this is the exact opposite of "interesting"
Giving somebody who may be an awful person money for their art is not an issue, it's paying for something you want from the person who created it. Of course some people might not feel comfortable doing this, but personally it doesn't really bother me at all and I think assuming that it SHOULD put you in a moral quandary is just flat out wrong.
How many things have you bought that were made off of impoverished children in sweatshops who are going to die young and in poverty?
woah that's a pretty pathetic response.
As arguments all you got are 2005 memes?
>Regardless of your opinion on the case
dropped
>it's a really fucking important thing to mention in the review
nope, try again. it's a personal choice. if I were reviewing it I'd talk purely about the music, same with anything or anybody. somebody else might do it differently, that's their right.
kek
spotted the newfag
Michael Gira didn't rape Larkin Grimm.
The statements from Margaret Morris discredits her with ~95% certainty. Then you see how Larkin immediately used the publicity to push her new releases & shows... and with so much giddiness.
It really creeps me out, and offends me as someone who suffered from sexual assault myself.
>Regardless of your opinion on the case, it's a really fucking important thing to mention in the review.
Absolutely incorrect. The review should focus on the context that spawned the creative ideology and concept of the band at the time of the creation of the piece, hence, the creative ideology and concept of the piece itself.
A review tries to grasp all the ideas of the album, and measures the quality of its execution paired with the concept, or any other aspect of the piece that's worth mentioning, according to the critic (personal enjoyment, feelings transmitted, etc.).
The review should NOT include a personal situation that happened years ago, even one with such a blurry background and impact. The Grimm-Gira incident did not affect the creations of the tracks, as we know most of them were already being played live before the whole fiasco broke out.
If you mention and consider this incident as a serious factor that affected the music, then it'd be hypocritical of you not to mention it as well as defining factors in the creation of TBK, The Seer, and any work created after the alleged rape.
>Rape is a big fucking deal.
I'd say it is more important to focus on the music than on the social and moral impact of alleged actions of the artist, don't you?
>And if you read the TMT review, you would realize that they FOCUSED upon the musical content of the record.
Didn't read the reviews, but the mention of it should only be superficial and brief. I hope that's what happened here; otherwise, read my first paragraph again.
>But you didn't. You just lept to a conclusion because you're a butthurt teenager who's angry that people don't like your shitty record.
You're the one who sounds angry. Speaking of which, what makes you think your opinion over this record has any impact on the feelings of OP?
>Go back to /r/ you fucking activist loser.
So much underage in one sentence! Bravo.
it's boldfaure, he makes a living out of being an unbearable cunt on a daily basis, just ignore him
Do you think an essay/analysis of Wagner's Ring Cycle should not mention his nationalistic, racist views?
Continuing this, I'd say the publicity is really what makes her stand out as ingenuine.
There's no pride in being victim... Obviously you need to come to terms with it... and one way of doing that is opening up. But making it a key part of your public identity? That screams faker.
You can get over the feelings of shame and disgust on some level... but I don't believe anyone fully removes it. Especially when they re-tell/re-experience the abuse. At some point you want to be stronger... You come to terms with what happened. You stop blaming yourself. You acknowledge that there's far more to your personality. Then finally, you drop the identity of a victim.
Larkin does not seem interested at all in moving on. She's reveling in victimhood. She gets an outpouring of
> tfw you wanna like Swans to be edgy and contrarian because of this controversy but you know it's just noise pollution trash
Michael Gira is the Jeff Koons of music.
Unless some of the themes of the piece were directly involved and/or developed from that point of view, no.
>Unless some of the themes of the piece were directly involved and/or developed from that point of view
They were. So you're confirmed to not know anything about Wagner at least.
You could very easily make an argument that Swans' music about masculine power and energy carry similar baggage.
Should it? I don't know, I think if it informs somebody's feelings on the piece it should be mentioned, unless it's an "objective" analysis of the musical content on its own. I don't think it's a requirement unless it's a central theme to the music, in which case ignoring it would not allow a proper view of it. I'm not saying DON'T mention or acknowledge the allegations, I'm saying that it isn't a requirement to evaluate the art.
In what universe did Gira actually commit this rape? I thought it was all decided that she freaked out because she had been accusing previous people of shit. Grimm is mentally unstable, just look at the shit she says its mindless
>You could very easily make an argument that Swans' music about masculine power and energy carry similar baggage
Not the OP, but If you're going to honestly make this statement about Swans, you have a very elementary understanding of their music.
First off, Swans can't really be tied down to a single gendered identity.... I could just as easily argue that an album like Children Of God alternates b/w two extremes (masculine & feminine)... as evident by tracks like In My Garden with Jarobe on the vox.
Secondly, Gira's approach is clearly not celebrating power & force... but acknowledging it, poking fun at it, and fucking with it. Just consider they have an album called Public Castration is a Good Idea...
He didn't. She already admitted that she lied. God forbid shit tier music journo SJWs do their fucking research.
source?
She didn't admit anywhere that she lied m8
If you don't think their early era (fucking Flex Your Muscles) isn't masculine then just straight fuck off.
It colors their history.
Umm, that's not what I said m8.
But why would anybody take her allegations seriously?
But this just shows that all of these review sites don't care about the music and just care about forcing their ideology and looking cool.
>If you don't think their early era (fucking Flex Your Muscles) isn't masculine then just straight fuck off.
They weren't. So you're confirmed to not know anything about Swans at least.
You could very easily make an argument that Flex Your Muscles is about satirizing masculine power and energy, and doesn't carry similar baggage.
How old are you?
HAHAHAHAHA I know riiiiggghhhtt
Checkmate swans fans :PP
How about that new radiohead album?
>Point is emphatically refuted and made to look like a retarded asshole with his own words
>H-how old are you?? Haha r-r-right guize???
>be strong
>be hard
>resist temptation
>stick your hand in your eye
>close your fist
>resist
>flex your muscles
>walk on this line
>look straight ahead
>flex your muscles
>be hard
>come back for more
How in the actual fuck do you think this isn't satirizing masculinity?
kys
>immaturely just copy pastes response in "I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I" way
>expects to be thought of as an adult.
Don't worry, it's very obvious you're a teenager.
Can you post an article/testimonial expressing that it is satirized?
From YGR: I wanted Swans to be “heavier” though – I wanted the music to obliterate - why, I don’t remember! I think it just felt good. Live, we used two basses (playing utterly unmusical chords that were stabbed and left to sustain or sometimes hit in staccato or opposing rhythms), drums, a “percussionist” that slammed down on a metal table with a metal strap, crude cassette loops of various sounds/noises (usually some kind of undefined ROAR), and Norman Westberg’s glorious sustained and screaming guitar chords. It was pretty elating to play live – for us. If 100 people showed up (which would have been a huge audience at the time – 20 was more the average), 80 were guaranteed to leave by the second song. Somehow that tension – contempt or indifference from the audience – was nourishing, so we kept going. “
1 - The snippet you just posted says literally nothing as to whether or not it's satirized, so I'm not sure what you're alluding to.
2 - It's clearly an over-the-top satirization of hyper-masculinity; do you think he's seriously saying BE HARD RAAAWWW FLEEX UR MUSCLES completely po-faced? He obviously fucking isn't, and he's on numerous occasions written lyrics at length detailing, negatively, the abuse that powerful figures of authority subject others to, such as in the song Cop. I mean, it's not even slightly ambiguous or open to interpretation what the lyrical intent here is. He's done a spoken-word piece that is a detailed story of emasculation, he's said on record that he likes employing female members in the band to balance out the testosterone, etc. C'mon dude.
Daily reminder to NEVER reply to a post from a trip under ANY circumstances.
nope, I just used your own condescending bullshit in the exact way you did, though you seem kind of triggered when it's done to you, lol. stay dumb.
"His lyrics focused on flesh and its various mutilations, mutual humiliation, the debasement of the human being who is enslaved to the vicious circle of power and domination and the complete destruction of the culture."
>From Detroit Metro Times, 1995
i.e. definitely NOT a celebration of power structures. Rather, a protest or mockery.
“Just a Little Boy” however, finds Swans wrestling with concepts of perceived masculinity more than simply adhering to them. Simultaneously conflating and confounding our expectations of the modern male, Gira is found helplessly bellowing that he needs love, followed by a torturous, nasal repetition of the lyrics “I’m just a little boy” which is then mocked by a nasty horde of chattering laughter. Gira’s vocals are manic, they scream for empathy with the full acknowledgement that none shall be delivered. The situation is desperate.
>The Essential, 2014
"While he’s never shied away from his scene’s hyper-masculinity, Gira has long worked with women—Jarboe for a majority of Swans’ first phase (from 1984 to 1997), and in their newest incarnation, Gira has asked St. Vincent, Karen O, Cold Specks and many other female musicians to guest on Swans records, providing a much-needed balance to the brute force of his work."
No proof in there.
Not from Gira.
Not from Gira.
>How is the artist's life relevant to the art?
gee idk
>Not from Gira
Doesn't matter. The vast majority of artists do not publicly reveal intention. If art criticism was limited to primary sources, there would be literally no such thing as art criticism.
That's because most people don't bother asking, and resolve to rely on lazy methods and not put any work into music criticism.
This.
Your writing style is so obviously yours, stop samefagging
You're pathetic.