“I tell my piano the things I used to tell you” - Frédéric Chopin
previous thread: An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on the actual writing of music, not the production, and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But post with the intent on discussing composition. And remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any music, such as jazz, is acceptable
Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective
What notation software do you use, have you used? Feel free to give a mini review.
What recording gear do you use to record your ideas or improvs?
For me: Software >Capella used a DOS version way back, fairly clumsy back then. >Score Perfect (not score!) some german Software I used during high school, very very mouse based, but it had one thing going for itself: when you do multiple selects (ctrl select), and then copy paste, the notes will be inserted in the order they were selected. >Finale compared with what I had before, it was great. I liked the (PC) keyboard centric way to enter and modify stuff, and I really liked the instrument sounds that came OOTB >Sibelius Very allround and very user friendly interface. Doing layout is a tad easier than on finale. >Lilypond text based notation program. It's like going from Word to TeX. You get absolute control, but the creation process becomes harder. I like the smooth appearance of the scores, the ability to assign notes to variables for reuse.
Kayden Young
I'm using Sibelius right now, love that they introduced a monthly sub. My budget can very well more than handle it and I end up making up that $20/month I pay for it.
Equipment wise, been using a Line 6 UX2 for years to record bass, guitar, and vocals, a Keystation 49 to record anything but a piano, and a Yamaha YDP-140 to record piano since it has faux weighted keys and can emulate the piano a lot better.
Bentley Lopez
top kek just pirate sibelius
you played yourself
Chase Lee
Lmao wait are there reliable Sibelius torrents? Cause I'll bail on this sub if there is
William Campbell
learning theory is tedious and ultimately stifles creativity
none of you will ever write anything exceptional
Tyler Ross
why do you think that how do you think people should make music without theory
John Ward
t. generic bandcamp shoegaze musician no.352849501847
Wrote this without any theory knowledge, and it's highly innovative and musical, proof you don't need theory.
Gabriel Morgan
So you just played random chords on the fretboard until it sounded cool k
Nolan Kelly
THEORYFAGS BTFO
Cameron Hill
so how'd you come up with it what is your creative process knowing no theory
Gavin Gomez
if you knew theory (which you probably have at least a basic understanding of from playing), you could actually know what you're doing when you write stuff like that.
Evan Ramirez
hey guys i can cook waffle without a recipe therefore chefs are fucking retards wasting their life
-you
Nolan White
>needing to say it's highly innovative and musical Often a sign of it being neither.
Jayden Phillips
>i dont know what im doing but i like it
Jonathan Long
THE /comp/ COMPOSITION CHALLENGE #2 VARIATIONS July 1st - July 7th
Compose a section in a theme and variations based on the opening theme of In the Aeroplane Over The Sea. Keep your section to around the same length as the original (50 or so seconds).
Instrumentation: Violin + Piano Instrumentation is constant so that at the end, I can stitch this together into a single piece. To make this easier on me, please email me the midi when you're done [email protected] and I'll be producing it. If you can't give me midi because you only handwrite your music on egyptian parchment, email me the sheet music just incase i miss it itt
Please try to stick to starting and ending in G major (not necessarily the chord, but the key for sure)
POST theme and variations you like. post ideas for directions to take (don't feel compelled to write in any specific style). Post WIPs.
>REMINDER YouTube stream, /comp/ learning session 2, will be on Sunday, at 6PM US Central Time!
Aiden Howard
>retarded opinion >is a rockist dude with a guitar
poetry
Adrian Campbell
I know you're just trolling but your album cover for that track is literally an advanced music theory concept my dude. troll better next time.
Joshua Reyes
no need for that reminder
Also, here's the theme, again
Dominic Diaz
How many of you guys actually listened to the track? and I don't mean with an analytical theory-driven ear, I mean with a passionate and life seeking yearning of an ear? That's what I'm talking about when I say theory stifles your creativity. I just let my brain go and record images I see in my head, and it just flies onto the guitar, have never read notes or formally wrote stuff down but have managed to get gigs performing my stuff.
Luis Gray
>I just let my brain go and record images I see in my head, and it just flies onto the guitar, have never read notes or formally wrote stuff down but have managed to get gigs performing my stuff. lol what How the fuck do you know how to translate it to guitar? Trial and error?
Luke Sanchez
>I mean with a passionate and life seeking yearning of an ear I did and it was shit.
> I don't mean with an analytical theory-driven ear Oddly enough, it was only interesting when I listened with an analytical theory-driven ear
Aiden Sullivan
presumably he means he just plays what's on his mind on the guitar.
I do it with my cello all the time, gives me ideas I can then analyze with theory
Eli Robinson
This is significantly better than anything usually posted in these kinds of threads. It's strikingly avant garde and familiar at the same time, without being burdened by excess education. It's Jackson Pollock in musical form.
>Trial and error? True art is trial and error
Noah Kelly
But what do you do when you do that?
Adrian Cox
I play what my fingers want to play next? And I record it, and then I can use it to plan out something longer and less fantasie-impromptu.
Dominic Phillips
>This is significantly better than anything usually posted in these kinds of threads Well, yeah, it's clear he has talent, which is why the fact that he'll never know what else he can do with it is quite irritating. Most of what is posted in these kinds of threads is by people early in their learning.
Jonathan Jackson
I listened to your track, and your lack of theory has definitely stifled your creativity. You've really restricted your vocabulary, note choice, and phrasing, but you wouldn't know that because of your lack of theory knowledge. tell me what is novel about this other than the fact that it's several unrelated lines superimposed, which you can go into a guitar center and hear for yourself.
Matthew Bailey
lol that's some obvious samefag pretty pathetic 2bh
Brayden Fisher
Claudio Arrau once said "An interpreter must give his blood to the work interpreted." well Claudio Arrau was a hack who only played music made by others because he was chained to following theory rules and concepts.
I refuse to let my creativity be stifled by those rules and you may not hear MY creativity because you have a set notion of how music has to sound, but I guarantee you it came from the heart and is creatively sound for those that step out of their comfort zone.
That's not me but I appreciate the kind words that user had for my work.
Dominic Richardson
user plays by ear and claims to have more "artistic ingenuity and creativity" than guitarists or musicians who are familiar with music theory, believing they are limited by the confines of theory, whereas in his ignorance of music and through the use of his "trusty ear" he is unconfined.
This is a delusion. Someone of talent will never surpass someone of both talent and skill. You can claim to be talented and toot your own horn as much as you'd like but someone with your level of talent who knows theory will be capable of applying their knowledge in ways you could never dream of.
You might know that the second fret of the G string sounds like an A, but you don't know why certain sounds sound the way they do, or why certain harmonies work, or even how. This might not be a bad thing, lots of professional artists are far from theorists in terms of technical skill, however to claim to be beyond that of a normal theory practician makes you look like a child. To praise your own work goes beyond the boundaries of hubris, and you close your own mind to a world of knowledge.
TLDR user thinks he can bait this thread with something so obvious, it hurts. And if he isn't baiting, you all deserve to be shot, for taking him seriously in any way, shape, or form. >inb4 LELELE TROLLED U! XDDD This isn't Sup Forums if you're going to shitpost please do so in /daily/ /gg/ or some other shitty general by saying you think the Beatles are the best band of all time.
Joseph Long
"Even when I can play Europe's most precious keyboard, to have to listen to people who don't understand, or do not want to understand, and who are incapable of grasping my intent, whatever I play, does surely forfeit my lust for playing at all" - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Mozart, someone of talent, and skill. Unlike user: who needs to bait by samefagging in /comp/
Try reddit friend.
Parker Brown
I listened to the track and cant believe I fell for your bait. You got me user, 3/10.
Christian Roberts
what's the next challenge?
Hudson James
>TLDR user thinks he can bait this thread >>inb4 LELELE TROLLED U! XDDD >still let himself be baited See, when someone says someone is 'baited', that means they have been lured into wasting excess energy on making it known how they feel about the bait. >And if he isn't baiting, you all deserve to be shot, for taking him seriously in any way, shape, or form. No one here has made a response more elaborate, detailed and time-consuming than yours. I'm guessing you had typed three paragraphs then realized you'd almost been baited, but the proper response is to remember the sunk cost fallacy and just discard what has been wasted so far.
Xavier Perry
Someone mentioned that it should involve rhythm in a way, which is a pretty good idea, although I'm not sure what it should be specifically.
Anthony Sullivan
Write a polyrhythmic piece?
Anthony Young
Piece that switch time signatures three times?
Waltz?
Isaiah Jackson
I think writing a strict polyrhythmic piece is a good move. In my opinion, switching between time signatures is not a hard technical thing, but it really needs a lot of meaning and purpose behind it. To clarify, I think that if someone wants to change time signatures in a piece, it's not that hard to do, but you just need to have the taste to do it in the right piece. Because of that, I don't think it'd be a great technical exercise, compared to writing a polyrhythmic piece. I think that having it as an optional bonus challenge as part of the polyrhythmic challenge is cool though, but please let me know what you think
Nolan Kelly
I've been writing music for 5 years and i have no fucking idea how to write with polyrhythms
Brayden Davis
Interesting piece dude, really makes you think.
Now you can do that without theory, sure. Alot of great musicians played without theory.
Composers who don't theory are a different story.
You can play a great song like that by just plating what you think sounds good, but you'll be severly limited when it comes to planning compositions.
Let's say you made that song into a section of a larger piece. Can you take the motifs and develop them? Write counter-motifs? Write a whole new section, showcasing the opposite of that song?
That's all from a classical perspective, yes, but it doesn't have to be.
Let's say you were struck by inspiration. You wanted to be compose a three-part song in which the first part involved one note manipulated sonically as much as possible, the second in which there was never a note repeated twice (microtonal at that), and the third part, where one melody is varied exaxctly 56 different times.
The first section will require extensive knowledge of sound design, the second extnsive knowledge of pitches (considering you said you don't know theory, I'm not sure if you are aware there are twelve pitches on a regular guitar, and more if you bend the strings. You'll need to know about these pitches and how small you can change them to figure out the total number of pitches you can use). The third has a classic bend. It requires simple knowledge of variation. It's probably the easiest section.
You know, now I think I might like this piece. It's very simple, and very logical. I think I might just make it.
Sebastian Diaz
I kind of have an idea, but have also not delved into it too deeply either, which is why i think it might be a good challenge. Not sure if it would be too hard for beginner composers. Maybe the inverse would be better, write a piece that switches time signatures three times, bonus challenge: make it entirely polyrhythmic? The main issue with good polyrhythmic writing is I think the instrumentation needs to be dense, which adds another element of difficulty to a composition challenge.
I've only written like 3 pieces with true polyrhythmic elements. A piano piece a long time ago with a debussy esque 3 over 2 figure, and more recently a song that is simultaneously in 5/2 and 5/4, which because 5 is an odd number gives it a polyrhythmic vibe. I also wrote a piece that has a 3 over 2 figure against 4/4, and that worked really well. But again, I definitely think I need more practice.
Benjamin Myers
I know a lot of Sup Forums says you can create good music without theoretical knowledge, which is obviously true for sufficiently musically versed individuals. But what if you have NO musical background, can theory really do all that much to help you realize an idea? Inherent or otherwise inculcated musicality must be important to compose music, right? or could you conceivably pick it up in your mid-twenties?
Jaxon Hall
Sounds good tbqh
Grayson Smith
so you're asking two unrelated questions there. YES if you only learn theory you will miss out on a bunch of stuff that simply is not book taught. Ear training (which, to be fair, is somewhat book-taught) and just a natural understanding of music are necessary to make music. If you take this to the extreme without touching any books, you will learn music theory somewhat by accident (and of course, you would have limited ability to articulate what you know). But, none of that's to say that you couldn't pick it up in your mid twenties. So many beginner composers spend years not actually honing their ears and listening, and if you just start with the right mindset it's definitely possible to "git gud", with or without academically studying theory
Sebastian Richardson
Your composing will probably suck in general if you don't know how to play an instrument. That's gives you theory and incidental knowledge.
Ethan Butler
your lazy, thats all you are
Henry Ramirez
Post your music fag, I know I can improvise 10x better than you
You will /never/ get other people to play what you want them to play, that's the real purpose of sheet music. Sheet music is the interface that operates the musical instrument that is the orchestra fgt
Benjamin Diaz
He posted his SoundCloud subsequently after, it was guitar shit.
Bentley Rodriguez
Yeah it sounds like complete shit O_O This has to be some sort of epic troll
Landon Green
Not really. I sort of accept the idea of plasticity diminishment at face value. I would not even ask if I was 60 (well I would be too old for Sup Forums). I probably cannot really become proficient at an instrument at this point. But composing seems like a purely cerebral process, especially given there is well-established theory around it. Furthermore Schopenhauer claims aesthetics and specifically music to be his primary justification against suicide. Its certainly true that I feel least suicidal when I am listening to the music that most appeals to me. On the other hand there is really not enough of it and I figured that composing would put me more immediately in contact with musical aesthetics than simply listening.
Evan Scott
>I'm really digging the guitar work here, particularly how your tone settings bring out some of the more percussive elements of your playing, which is probably because I'm a hopeless sucker for those naturally-occurring little unintentional noises. :) The disjointedness is interesting as well, as the separate licks seem to have decided on a direction to travel together without really saying anything to each other about it. It's a bit monophonic, and if you aren't actively pursuing that kind of recording style as a hallmark of your tracks, I'd be tremendously interested in hearing what it all sounds like playing together on a stereoscape.
holy shit.
Juan Gutierrez
That's Arabic for "this sounds like fucking shit but I want to be nice so you'll visit my soundcloud too"
Dylan Cox
Reposting from last thread since I got just one reply, here's a possibility for the accompaniment for the theme. clyp.it/yidzlg3o
As in, the original theme, that plays before the variations.
Lincoln Turner
I don't think the solution to being suicidal is to compose music. You need psychiactric treatment. Get some antidepressants and some sun and stop being a self-absorbed sadcunt. Worked for me.
Aaron Rogers
If I wasn't good at music I'd have jumped off a building a long time ago
Jacob Morales
As someone who picked up piano with no previous music background in his mid 20s, it's not too late for you to become proficient with an instrument. Will you be playing some Chopin ballades anytime soon? Nope, but with the right instructor, you could really start flying with the instrument. Plus, having that keyboard and theory foundation when I was comfortable enough to start composing really basic stuff went a long way. I picked it up as a hobby and now it's being a serious pastime. Plus, there's a 67 year old dude who takes lessons before me and he said deciding to start learning the piano a few years ago gave him shit to look forward to, such as reaching goals and being able to express himself musically.
David Sanders
*Hugs* we're all composers here bro
Camden Bell
I have done all that shit. If anything I am just a pessimist but my last shrink told me that my mood and energy were too high to be depressed. Although he says I have anxiety and has put me on low-dose antipsychotics. But personally I am an advocate of depressive realism. I don't think I could ever view my life or life in general as anything but making the best of a bad situation. As a matter of fact I tried to become Christian in bad faith but it ultimtely didn't work.
Lucas Fisher
>the conspiracy against the human race a fun read, right up your alley. it helped me contextualize my pessimism and has, somewhat paradoxically, in my reaction to it, formed a kind of personal motivation that isn't so easily snuffed out
Luis Robinson
New to composing. I wanted to write a piece to play with a cellist after I save enough money to get a real solid body classical guitar. Please be harsh, simple little tune. There's a part where the rhythm is thrown off because I couldn't fix the eighth rest being in there (don't know how to work around it and not have to rewrite everything). Also imagine the last notes being held out for eight beats instead of just two, I have to write that in.
Music file is just Muse Score, unfortunately I'm no cellist and my acoustic would hardly suffice.
Holst could only play Trombone. Most accounts say Wagner was a mediocre pianist and yet he is credited with fundamentally revolutionizing harmony. Of course playing ability helps but not absolutely necessary user. Though a keyboard is essential kit for composing whether you can play it or not.
Ayden Davis
That cello part, uh, looks a little difficult
Cooper Hernandez
its pretty rambly tbph pham
Eli Gonzalez
Not him but what makes it difficult? Curious and taking notes
Adrian Hughes
A trombone and piano are instruments, dude
David Lee
Holst is a shit composer tho
Carter Stewart
yeah but a trombone cannot play chords. You might as well just hum or sing
Noah James
Too diatonic-y for my taste. Try to explore more with your harmony. Good though
>Holst could only play Trombone. Fucking kek I still don't believe this. Pretty sure Respighi only played violin too.
Austin Perez
which is why a common piece of advice for composers is to sing melodies. Not an instrument, technically, but it still produces music
Isaac Rogers
Personally I still have to work through Cioran but its on my reading list for sure.
Austin Rivera
good enough for me. I don't think anyone here is going to be a revolutionary composer
David Martinez
Please fuck off jesus. Don't take /classical/ shitposting here
Aaron Bell
>calling me by the name of the Messiah
Truly, I am the king of shitposters
Parker Wood
*sforzandos all over u*
Dominic Torres
The key is Db Major or so. The notes of Db Major are Db, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb and C. The open strings on the cello are C, G, D, A. So the only open string available for the cello is C (leading tones in general don't sound good as open strings, but that's moot here), which isn't in the range of the cello part here at all. That in itself isn't really a problem, but the part is absolutely laden with double stops.
The double stops playable on the cello are, in order of difficulty from easiest to hardest: >sixths (easiest by far) >tritones (same fingering as minor sixths, also easy as balls) >minor sevenths >fourths (same fingering as major sixths but difficult to tune) >fifths? (very contextual, often easier than fourths but often more difficult than thirds, I'd just avoid these if you're not a cellist) >major sevenths (like a minor seventh but wider and difficult to tune) >thirds (same fingering as sevenths, but more difficult for the same reason fourths are more difficult than sixths) >octaves (if you're high enough they're easier than thirds, and even low I can sort of finagle them due to my freakishly large hands but probably just avoid these) >ninths (you've gone way too far) >tenths (saw these once in a Popper etude I hated)
Parallel sixths are very comfy to play, even parallel tritones, but the distance between one's first finger and fourth finger on a cello is about a minor/major third (on a violin it's about an octave, on a double bass I believe it's a major second), so if you have several thirds in a row (measure 5-6, for example), you need to shift the position of your hand as many times as there are notes. And because they're thirds and not a perfect interval, you need to make sure each one is the right kind of third, minor or major. I haven't gotten into how the key makes this infinitely harder yet, but it seriously does
Levi Hernandez
>tfw the fart user from last night is still mocking me
>stream user is in on it too I thought bullying stopped after high school
*sforzandos on ur chest*
Isaiah White
Now then, I'll just point out the biggest example of the difficulties in this cello part. In measure 14, you can finger the Eb Gb F on the D string with the index finger (1), pinkie (4) and ring finger (3) respectively. (You could also do it with the index finger (1), ring finger (3) and middle finger (2) but on the cello the 'normal' distance between 1 and 4 is a third whether that be a major or minor third, the distance between 1 and 2 is either a minor or major second, and the distance between 1 and 3 is either a major or augmented second. Basically what I'm saying is that 1 3 2 would be non-standard and 1 4 3 would be normal. That really doesn't have bearing on this though.)
Anyways, after you finger that, you have to get to the next note in the span of an eighth note. That note is a double-stop, a minor third (which requires the distance between 1 and 4 to be a major third for reasons that make sense when you visualize it). So this is going to be fingered with a 1 on Db on the G string and a 4 on Bb on the C string.
So we're moving from 1 4 3 on the D string, where Eb (1) is a minor second above open D, Gb (4) is a diminished fifth above open D, and the distance between 1 (Eb) and 4 (Gb) is a minor third, to 4 1 on the C and G strings respectively, where Db (1) is a diminished fifth above open G, Bb (4) is a minor seventh above open C, and the distance between 1 (Db) and 4 (Bb) is a major third (for reasons which, again, make sense if you visualize the situation).
So 1 moves a perfect fourth up the string and onto the next string over, 4 moves up an augmented fourth up the string and two strings over, and they must all land perfectly within the space of an eighth note.
Honestly a lot of these issues, though not all, seem like they'd be resolved by transposing it all up a halfstep to D Major.
>I've been working on detailed explanations of concepts I've only known about instinctively, and the rest of /comp/ has been sforzandoing
Landon Perry
Welcome to the /comp/y crab how may I take your order?
Hi I'll take a large sforzando. to go.
That'll be one meme sir, please open your mouth.
Lincoln Perez
>Gb (4) is a diminished fifth above open D whoops, I meant a diminished fourth.
Carter Barnes
You fail to recognize the greatness in /comp/'s masterpiece.
Thanks guys! saved _______________________ Should I keep going with this /comp/? clyp.it/vbgg3pst
Brayden Russell
meant for
Cooper Gomez
Needs some sforzandi. I kinda like your string writing but I feel like your piano accompaniment is all over the place, especially in measure 5.
Benjamin Long
Er, make sure you save as well
Gavin Phillips
I'll rework that piano then, I kinda want the part in 5 to be like a transition period, kinda like how if a rap song modulates and turn tables start spinning for a measure or two right before but it could definitely not be so lazy
Is it generally safe to write for strings as long as you stick to single notes without too many jumps? No weird idiosyncrasies like horns might have for certain keys?
Gavin Ortiz
Yes. You have to take in account the timbre of each note though. For instance, Db is not a very resonate key for strings because the lack of open strings. Most, if not every note is "fretted" (not sure if that's the right word)
G, D, A and E are the safest keys for string instruments. You must write in flat keys with reasonable prudence to balance timbre. If you have an idea in Db or Ab for a string quartet most of the time you should just put it a half step up unless you are specifically going for a "dull" or mellow tone.
I know you used to play guitar from the previous thread, so think in terms of that. An open C major chord will sound much better than a barred one. The same applies for violin, viola and violincello.
