"That will make the ladies scream." - Joseph Hadyn
Previous thread An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the composition autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on the actual writing of music, not the production. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But post with the intent on discussing composition. And remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any music, such as jazz, pop, rock, country, electronic etc. is acceptable
Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can give accurate feedback.
>not doing the challenge this week >too busy working on my cello sonata Feels good that I can say such a thing at all to be honest.
Aiden Ortiz
Good luck desu
Joseph Brown
bump
Cameron Williams
Why is writing music so hard :(
Chase Murphy
Post some of your scores and we can help you out if you have problems
Gabriel Sanders
It's not even that, I want to write just a simple jazz track but I don't even know how to start it.
Daniel Price
What instrument do you play?
Oliver Miller
Drums It's more of a lack of knowledge in terms of song structure
Hudson Gray
>It's more of a lack of knowledge in terms of song structure
Do you mean what form you should apply or how you can follow up section A with Section B?
I don't want to shittalk you, but from my experience drummers lack knowledge in harmony.
Jonathan Torres
>spend horse creating a relatively "album art" for music i plan to release in the future >5000x5000 >almost 100MB
Angel Reyes
>spend horse
Had a good chuckle
Connor Diaz
i'm very tired
Jaxon Hughes
>but from my experience drummers lack knowledge in harmony Oh you hit the nail on the head there, I've learnt the basics of reading music and so on but I don't really have anything to apply it to. And I mean song structure in general terms, say verse chorus, that sort of thing. Sorry if I'm coming off as a complete idiot, probably because I am at times when it comes to creativeness, but jazz just seems so complex and impenetrable.
James Rodriguez
>think you're learning and making some nice tunes. >hear some crazy creative shit and realize you're a fucking pleb
Every time. How do get gud?
Jordan Nelson
Do you understand how chords work in Jazz? If you're a complete beginner I would just suggest to write out a II-V-I and look up some basic chord progressions like Rhythm Changes.
Also on a side note, a good drummer is worth a lot. I would take a good drummer over a good bass player or Saxophone player every time.
Post scores and we can help you out.
Nolan Edwards
THE /comp/ COMPOSITION CHALLENGE #3 METERS July 8st - July 15rd
Compose a short piece (around 1 to 2 minutes) with three distinct meters in any instrumentation. Treat these time signatures as meters, rather than just throwing in a different time signature for a bar or two for phrasing purposes. Consider making your meters distinct by considering whether the time signatures you choose are duple or triple; simple, compound or complex/irregular. BONUS CHALLENGE: Make at least one section of your piece polyrhythmic/polymetric
Post WIPs, talk about things to consider when changing meters, post pieces that have strong metric changes, post polyrhythmic pieces.
Lucas Turner
post it
Juan Brown
>How do get gud? Practice. It takes at least 10 years to "get gud" at writing music. Keep doing it, keep learning more about it, keep studying the scores of the masters. Eventually you will improve.
You dont have to write "crazy creative shit" just music that you enjoy listening to. Nice tunes is fine and most people really enjoy that.
Daniel Allen
u get gud when get to the point you tell your gf to suck someone else off so you can work on your music
William Bell
>muh 10,000 hours rule >muh ira glass monologue >Nice tunes is fine and most people really enjoy that. you sound like you have absolutely 0 business explaining how to git gud to anyone
Jayden Butler
Personally, I think that if you have a very specific level/style/anything that you want to achieve, you can get there pretty darn fast with focused study and practice. Then you don't have to practice general harmony/counterpoint/form etc., you just have to beeline for the goal and take what you need along the way. Then later, you can of course expand into those areas you ignored and use them as a source of renewing inspiration and widening knowledge.
Probably, this is also more effective in today's society, where I get the impression that there's a lot more competition, and a composer needs to have a lot of other skills. The faster you get yourself up and working to aquire these other skills (business, production, networking, practical experience with musicians etc), the better, as these will be equally important in the long run. A full-time study of everything general composition would therefore leave you at a disadvantage and vulnerable when you finish and only THEN having to find out how to make money on your craft.
So yeah, if you go for a more straight forward/economic approach, it will get you up and working faster, so you can get precious work experience. And also, you don't have to endure all those years with excercises that are nothing like the music you actually want to make and you also avoid years of composing subpar quality because you only focused on harmony that first year, only to then go onto orchestration etc. which I know is how unis usually work. The quick start to composing (trademarked... just kidding).
Gavin Parker
>business, production, networking, practical experience with musicians etc wew & while ur at it just make sure to study up on the custodial arts as well
Adrian Lopez
he's right if you want to be a successful professional composer.
Levi Brown
>u get gud when you tell your gf to suck someone else off so you can work on your music fix'd
Nathan Jenkins
If you have better advice, feel free to give it.
not him, but being a professional composer is probably 50% running a business. all the things you quoted are essential.
Robert Sullivan
reposting from last thread
a WIP for the challenge. I have the first section done, and I've sketched out grooves for the next tow but haven't completed the melody yet. Let me know how successful you think the meter changes are. clyp.it/jqkoe1ee
Chase Reed
Are you the guy people said makes music like a JRPG? This feels like something that could fit into one like that, no problem. I like it. Relaxing and atmospheric. A pad-like instrument like synth pads or strings could enhance this piece, as there are no legato/non-rhythmic elements in your texture. I feel that's what's lacking.
Lincoln Brown
Don't think I'm that guy, but thanks, I'll be taking your advice.
Parker Moore
That will also enable you to write more freely and interestingly for the flute. Not just using the same note values throughout.
Jordan Gomez
Finally, I'd add another solo instrument, or trade the melody to one or two of the other instruments in the piece, for some needed contrast and variation later.
James Davis
>"That will make the ladies scream" Manheim Rockets are a meme
Juan Ross
www.strawpoll.me/10720807/ decide on the day. So far, Sa is the fav.
My agenda would be 1. Modal scales as of today, incl. the modes added in later chant theory 2. Origins, introduction to gregorian chant (2.1 introduction into mensural notation) (2.2 introduction into solmization) 3. Modal scales in Gregorian chant 3.1 ambitus, tenor, finalis 3.2 Examples for most modes 4. chord progressions
I'm not familiar with modal jazz and the likes, so if anyone wants to make a follow up to this, feel free to!
Austin Myers
Why do you do this?
Hunter Ross
I believe in the power of music to set hearts free from evil
Jack Phillips
just an offer. People were asking about modal stuff, so I thought I could provide some background infos.
We can ofc cut to the chase and skip the subsections
Alexander Brown
gonna highjack this thread for a personal /r/
Can somebody tell me which piece is played in the following Video? Its driving me crazy
I get to solidify my knowledge of the gregorian modes, which in turn willl hopefully help me improve my playing / accompanying these kinda pieces on the organ.
Kayden Rodriguez
tobyrush.com/theorypages/index.html yo could we include this in the sticky rather than that dog shit youtube link. I don't want to pay 30$ a month for some staff paper worksheets, nigga is a scam artist.
Jacob Diaz
How do you guys know which key to use, I've heard certain modes serve certain emotions but what about key signatures?
Thomas Adams
key signatures all sound the same in equal temperament. Certain keys can point towards certain emotions based on the instrument you're using. For example, if you have a flute melody in C major that spans an octave and a third, C to E', it either has to be fairly high all the time, and quite brilliant, or very low, quiet and intimate. If you didn't want either of these, or wanted a middle ground, you could instead put the piece in F.
basically, you have to balance your instrumentation, writing, and key choice. If you sing a melody and transcribe it, and it's in Bb, you should consider what instruments could play it best. If you really want to use a specific instrument, try putting it in a key where it will shine in that instrument's range.
Also, some stuff is easier to play in certain keys, and again depends on the instruments
Shit like piano solos, it won't matter what key you're in outside of just how it sounds in that range, and if you want to use particular voicings.
Hunter Miller
Seconded.
To add further to your point: the objective frequencies also matter, because they have different characteristics. This too comes into play when choosing keys.
Levi Howard
.
Ryan James
Also, it helps to know which keys are easier to play with which instrument. Lots of wind instrument players have an easier time with flat accidentals for some reason. Guitar players love keys that allow for empty strings. Organ players don't like too many accidentals, cause that can make the pedalling a chore, just to name a few.
Zachary King
b
Isaac Turner
>Lots of wind instrument players have an easier time with flat accidentals for some reason It's because most transposed instruments transpose down, like a fifth down (in F), two fifths or a major second down (in Bb), etc. Probably has something to do with physics, though A instruments exist, so I dunno.
So if you handed a F instrument to someone and told them to play a G, they'd play what someone with perfect pitch would call C. If you had them play a G major scale, they'd play a C major scale, if you give them something in the key of G they'd play in the key of C. In other words if you want such an instrument to play in C major, give them something in G major. (F instruments are called such because F is what's played when C is written.)
So something in concert C major is in (written) G major for an F instrument. Something in concert G major is in (written) D major for an F instrument, etc. Another way to put that is that, for an F instrument: Concert C major has one sharp Concert G major has two sharps Concert D major has three sharps Concert X has whatever the key of X normally has, plus one sharp (or minus one flat, a flat's basically a negative sharp).
This shift gets bigger for every fifth the instrument is transposed. Since most transposing woodwinds are F, Bb and Eb IIRC, if you write something in some benign key like D major, most of such instruments will have a key signature with three sharps, four sharps or five sharps. Not easy for any instrumentalist to read five sharps, except pianists who seem to be attuned to keys away from C in general. (Not that I, some pleb string player, know what I'm talking about, but the only A instrument I know about without googling, the A clarinet, is like something extra a full orchestra might have in case they're playing Schubert's Unfinished Symphony or something, while Bb is the standard one.)
Michael Murphy
I have a question, /comp/.
How do I compose an answer to a question that isn't much longer than it needs to be? I think I have a genuine problem
Noah Walker
like this
Easton Sanders
just get dubs and say "git gud"
Brayden Morales
joking aside, we appreciate your detailed answers
Jose Carter
Ah.
Adam Brown
Well you see, first of all step 1 is to identify what the person was asking. Let's take your question as an example because it's pretty relevant right know. Identifying the question is important. There are three clauses in your post, but we need to single out the question. Take a look at the "?" also known as the question mark, or in italian, punto interrogativo. The clause BEFORE, not after (although the clause after may also be a question, but that's not always the case) is your question. In this case, it's "How do I compose an answer to a question that isn't much longer than it needs to be?" So we went to focus only on this question and not answer anything else that is irrelevant. For instance, I could fluff up my answer by address your other two clauses "You do have a question. You might have a genuine problem" but you can avoid them entirely. Avoid putting the question into different contexts unnecessarily. For instance, I could also answer How do I compose an answer to a question that isn't much longer than it needs to be in an exam situation? Because my answer to that (figure out how many answers a question is worth, and dedicate a specific amount of lines to answered the question based on that) might not be relevant.
Jacob Gray
Well fuck
Grayson Gray
...
Joshua Scott
How's the compilation of the variation challenge coming along, btw?
Caleb Smith
When you lot load up musescore to try writing something, what do you do? Just analyzing my habits to go straight away into a piano 4/4 in Cmaj
Asher Carter
I usually start with an idea in my head, or start by improvising on a MIDI controller/keyboard instrument.
I always try to imagine a melody in my head before committing anything to the page. I usually start with a melody unless I'm writing electronic or game music where I usually start with a tempo or percussion part and a chord progression.
Eli Mitchell
Bumpů
Brody Diaz
expanding on what said, I usually find that if you get to the blank sheet music (analog or digital) before you have an idea of what you want to write, that blank sheet music is going to remain blank for a very long time.
Actually, the same can be said of a blank canvas, a blank college thesis, a blank character creation screen, etc.
Jason Nelson
I've started on writing the materials for the stream on Modes, vote on a date for the stream. if you want it by tomorrow, I'll have to skip some subsections.
www.strawpoll.me/10720807/
What do I get out of it, I was asked > consolidate my own knowledge > test features on my current notation software > learn the english specific vocabulary
Henry Smith
good on you user. modes are based, thanks for your time
Grayson Wright
Honestly just take your time with it, if you rush stuff you'll miss certain things out (like the double sharp chord and the inversion on lesson 2)
>wrote 6 measures of an intro to a cello sonata, currently stuck >what I've written is tonal, but seems to follow its own set of rules more stringently >don't actually know what those rules are, so wrote the piano part by trial and error, trying a haphazardly-chosen sonority and tossing it if it doesn't fit This is a problem I have a lot, actually. >a scale called 'lydian b3' can be derived from original idea / first two measures >applies in varying degrees to other four measures, but not stringently and there's some disobedience to the scale I can't explain away in my wily music theory ways >look at lydian b3 scale, decide on a whim to circle 'most important' notes >originally came up with first two measures by improvising on what someone here suggested many threads ago, "use m2s and m6s" >they're scale degrees 2 through 5 of the scale, B C D# E >notated chromatically, (0,1,4,5) >glance at the progression of sonorities I came up with by trial and error in the piano part in measure 5 and 6 >EBE (EMaj no third), AEb (Adim no third), then parallel octaves CC and BB >highest voice is going E, Eb, C, B >notated chromatically, (5,4,1,0) >mfw
Sorry to write my fucking master's thesis here, didn't know how to say this more compactly.
Eli Ortiz
post sheet music.
Daniel Lopez
sounds very very very complicated post clyp pls
Wyatt Price
m8 if it sounds good to you, thats the only "rules" you need to follow. Its good to do a little bit of analysis as you go, but dont get too caught up in it. It doesn't have to make sense theoretically as long as you feel it sounds correct.
Ayden Martinez
is there anything glaringly wrong with this? finally got around to attempting something remotely jazzy
Eli Baker
except for the thirds in the low bass, no. the lower the notes, the larger should the intervals be.
Grayson Martin
>>larger should the intervals be
Jason Kelly
My handspan is only a ninth, so I fucking hate all these niggers who write 13 notes wide chords.
Leo Brown
yoda is best composition teacher
"A composer must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A composer craves not these things.”
Jackson Howard
its bad form to go over an octave span in each hand imo. Not everyone is Rachmaninoff
Connor Morris
Sorry, beginner oversight
Dominic Lewis
Thank you. inb4 weeb, but my heart was torn when I realized I couldn't play my favorite piano piece. It starts like this and only gets worse.
Ian Myers
Here. Details kind of inconsistently written in because it's transferred from a physical notebook.
Unfortunately I've resolved to never let the midi touch this with its dirty hands. Could record the cello, though, the (newly edited) piano part is pretty simple, and easy to imagine once you know that silently holding a note on a piano causes a sort of reverb whenever notes of the same overtones are pressed. Unfortunately that effect isn't in digital pianos for obvious reasons, so I can't record that. It's actually fairly simple, it's just that my specialty is looking far, far too deeply into music, and explaining things succinctly is not exactly my forte
That's true, and I'm writing the cello part almost solely by ear with my cello in hand. But there are a few things that sound like they fit into this piece, and then there are many things that don't sound like they fit at all (like, I dunno, uh, Shave and a Haircut? Beethoven-style over-and-over tonics at the end? The melody of Dvorak's 9th second movement?), and among those things is everything I've learned about traditional harmony and melody. In this case I can't just write an entire movement by slow trial and error to discern what pitch should go next, that would end up sounding disorderly and unfocused.
Like, what I've written actually falls pretty easily into a straightforward sentence structure, 2 measures of something, 2 measures of the same thing changed/transposed, and 4 measures (well, here it's incomplete) where that thing is cut to pieces and one of those pieces, especially the first half of the original thing, is developed further. So I can experiment and write by ear pretty easily in the confines of that comfy structure. But now that I'm leaving it, especially on such a contrasting note (those harmonics), I can't just trial and error my way through this uncharted ground.
Liam Ross
>dat clef.
Ugh, the line counting begins.
Levi Richardson
Bad voicings mainly. As the other anons pointed out, your have minor thirds too low, and your spans are too long. You actually don't need to change most of your chords, you just need to move stuff into the right hand (thumb holds down chord tone, other fingers play melody). In the second chord, you have a minor 9th between the E and F, which is no bueno. Same interval pops up in your 4th chord. Also you chord progression is kind of not happening. G-7 E-7b5 C7 E-7b5 doesn't really want to go anywhere. For these 4 bars and your melody, I might suggest something really simple like G-7 E-7b5 A-7 D7 G-7 C7 Fmaj7 Fmaj7. Kind of lame, but more effective. Your voice leading is also not good, you should aim for more smoothness. This is hard when you want to play the roots of your chords, but is possible. I've shown here how I'd do it. The melodic rhythm in beat 4 of bars 1 and 4 can just be spelt with quarter notes, since you've indicated swing already. Yeah, swing is not exactly the same as triplets, but in this piece there is no need to distinguish.
Mason Allen
Shit, skipped a step here.
>>originally came up with first two measures by improvising on what someone here suggested many threads ago, "use m2s and m6s" >>they're scale degrees 2 through 5 of the scale, B C D# E
between those two should be something like >>so the 'most important' notes in the scale are the ones from the original idea which I expanded into the first two measures (which were D#, B , E and C.)
Nathaniel Johnson
Uh, sorry, it's just a cello thing. If it helps, whenever I'm reading a viola part in alto I remember that the note the clef is "pointing" at is middle C no matter what.
Lucas Miller
I know it's a C clef, but I can't read it instantly. I have to count the lines from the c and calculate
Camden Wood
>I can't just write an entire movement by slow trial and error to discern what pitch should go next you can, but you're right it can start sounding unfocused. I'd suggest just sketching the whole thing to the end of the movement / piece trial and error styles, just using your own judgement to keep things coherent. Have an overall idea or overall sound you're trying to go for and just write with that in mind. Then you can go back and "focus" it, improving weak parts etc.
I guess everyone has their own work process, but I couldn't handle over-analyzing the first 6 bars of what I was writing unless it was something complicated like a strict fugue exposition. Just let the music flow out, you can always delete or edit it later.
Grayson Foster
Thanks user, sorry for being so shit though. It's no excuse but I've never played a melodic instrument in my life.
Jacob Hernandez
> when you write a nice depressing/melancholic melody but when you add chords that fit within the scale it just makes it sound happy > and shit
I've got a B, D, C, bm, D sharp, and A and I'm in the D sharp scale (I'm assuming) what chords would compliment each note that would still keep the feel melancholic?
Blake Sullivan
Also how are you doing the input for this? (musescore)
Hudson Lopez
Pretty sure he's using sibelius. surely musescore can do this though?
post melody, we will give you some dark chords
Lincoln Barnes
It's from a black metal song I'm working on which explains the tremolo
Joshua Stewart
Anons being nice in /comp/ Feels good.
Luis Edwards
>I guess everyone has their own work process, but I couldn't handle over-analyzing the first 6 bars of what I was writing unless it was something complicated like a strict fugue exposition I guess it's no wonder the first piece I ever completed was a fugue. (But that was because I never ever complete things, and also I was being a tryhardy little shit.)
For Black metal you can keep things pretty simple, I'd try to think more about chordal writing than trying to have a melody and then harmonise it. Black metal is all about sweet chord progressions more than melodies imo.
Henry Ward
Also reposting my "Standard Black metal chord Progression" I made ages ago. Literally every black metal song ever could get away with just playing this progression over and over.
Sometimes 2 note chords (dyads) are the most effective, more notes just clutter up the place. Semitone movement is also your friend. Up and down by semitone, while everything else stays static, can't go wrong.
Cameron Evans
This is great, it still has those "cheerful" chords that I was trying to get away from but it has the darker chords that compliment them with a darker stormy night feeling. Thankyou
Isaiah Allen
just play around in a certain key or mode and know what interval jumps sound good
Gavin Wood
Yeah I'd focus more on writing cool chords than writing melodies and trying to harmonize them. You only need 2 notes per chord, just double them up or down the octave to fill them out. Dyads m8, lots of semitone movement and you're looking good
