Hip hop is not experimental

Why not even one person knows the meaning of experimental and then some go as far as to say that dg or clipping are experimental which are NOT.

experimental has a less extreme meaning in modern vernacular. It usually just means fusing existing ideas together. Avant garde is where the real weird shit happens

modern vernacular is retarded then

DG aren't rlly hip hop tho. Not by traditional standards at least. I think that label is just ascribed to them b/c of MC Ride's vocal style & race. I think of them more in the context of something like black metal with a more electronic approach and free form non-melodic vocals.

Clipping still has a lot of traditional hip hop qualities though, they just throw noise elements into the mix which you could argue is "experimental".

>actually you're wrong
>well the right way is stupid then!
Nice rebuttal

>black metal
nigger what?
They only used ONE black metal technique on ONE of their songs and it's a very recent one.

They're definitely hip-hop, although their last two albums are more in line with digital hardcore than with hip-hop.

>Not by traditional standards
its exactly hip hop and nothing else.
>black metal
damn... it really makes me thonk

>throwing noise elements
>experimental
how does it feel to get btfo by your own post?

Have you even listened to even one black metal song or have you just read about it in some hipster publication?

Define hip hop music first.

So you can't argue black metal influence unless guitar is used? Assuming you're talking about Giving Bad Ppl Good Ideas.

I think they've always fit into the "digital hardcore" label, but I usually associate that label w/ Atari Teenage Riot who are just gabber / hardcore techno w/ gentrified punk vocals lol.

I didn't claim they were black metal any more than I was claiming they were hip hop. Just saying the influence is there.

A music genre that consists of a stylized rhythmic music that commonly accompanies rapping, a rhythmic and rhyming speech that is chanted

Hip hop's evolution occurred as sampling technology and drum-machines became widely available and affordable. Turntablist techniques developed along with the breaks and the Jamaican toasting vocal style was used. Rapping developed as a vocal style in which the artist speaks along with an instrumental or synthesized beat.

K so genre fusion is not experimental? Why is Sup Forums obsessed w/ some redundant shit about what "experimental" really means in music? lol.

>thread about whether something is experimental
>Why is Sup Forums obsessed w/ some redundant shit about what "experimental" really means

>Implying this thread isn't redundant

That is not even genre fusion.
>obsessed w/ some redundant shit about what "experimental" really means in music
yeah fuck havin labels and shiet

>So you can't argue black metal influence unless guitar is used? Assuming you're talking about Giving Bad Ppl Good Ideas.
Yeah I'm talking about that one, because the rest has nothing to do with black metal.
Black Metal has less to do with occult shit than with a specific set of musical techniques and aesthetic guidelines. And DG have only used the blast beat on one of their songs and that's all.
No tremolo riffs, no evil dissonant chord progressions, no shrieked vocals, no lo-fi amp noise, none of the grimness of black metal.
And that has nothing to do with which instruments are actually used, you could very easily make electronic black metal, but it wouldn't sound anything like death grips.

>but I usually associate that label w/ Atari Teenage Riot who are just gabber / hardcore techno w/ gentrified punk vocals lol.
No shit.
You forgot about the riffs, because those are present in most digital hardcore.
but the point is that:
ATR = riffs+ electronic beats + rapping
recent DG = riffs + electornic beats + rapping

Boy what the fuck is genre fusion then? Does the melding of hip hop & harsh noise not fit into your rigorous definition Sup Forumstard definition of the term?

>the influence is there
yeah I guess.
But it's very elusive and mostly limited to the lyrics.

Idk DD has employed blast beats and shit in their music on a few songs (Fuck Me Out, Up My Sleeves) and if not a blast beat just some fucking bombarding, chaotic beats combined with a more depressive feel to some of their shit, just screams black metal to me. If you wanna knit pick about it not meeting certain criteria and conclude "Yup, nobody in DG listens to or in any way is influenced by black metal" then you could at least argue that thrash, grind core, hardcore punk, etc at least play a role.

Oh they're definitely influenced by hardcore punk, post-hardcore and maybe a little bit of thrash metal, but the black metal influences are so scarce they're not even worth pointing out.

So when you say "I think of them more in the context of something like black metal" as if you had to be into BM to get their music, I say "bullshit".

Y'all fuckers need to listen to Faust v. Dälek

Nah not saying you gotta be into black metal to "get" their music, I just listen to both and make connections between certain qualities that both possess (plus there's that photo of MC Ride wearin' a Revenge shirt). Actually most hardcore kids I know hate death grips.

Alright.
Then I suggest you listen to The Grand Declaration of War to get an idea of what black metal with freeform vocals and electronic effects sounds like.

Nigga that shit's just Mayhem w/ some electro industrial shit sprinkled throughout lol

AND rapping.
>just Mayhem
no shit.

Just Mayhem as in it sounds like what I could've predicted they would release in 2000 and then suddenly at times you feel like you're listening to Skinny Puppy.

"Experimental music" refers to the actual process of the music's production. It's music that is composed in such a way that its outcome is unforeseeable, not just noisey/wierd/avant sounding stuff. Unless it's formless noise or electronic music, it is pretty much impossible to listen to any piece of music and identify it as experimental or not... baka.

And it's got freeform vocals.

At any rate, it's not the kind of music that would allow you to draw parallels with DG in spite of the fact that it matches your description better than DG does.

Even dalek's own albums are experimental as hell. Their first album's last track has seven minutes of noise and feedback after the 3 minute rap.

that's only mildly experimental.

I agree in the grand scheme of music. But for hip-hop, in 1998, a little fucking trio from Newark that nobody ever heard of before their first record? It's pretty damn ballsy.