/comp/ - Composition General

Only 70 posts Edition

"A good composer does not imitate, he steals." - Igor Stravinsky

previous thread:

An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the theory autists

This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on the actual writing of music, not the production, and music theory. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But post with the intent on discussing composition. And remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any music, such as jazz, is acceptable

Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can accurately critique your composing from a theory perspective

THEORY

>Fux's Counterpoint
opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf

>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration

>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles
teoria.com/index.php

>Arnold Schcoenberg's "Fundementals of Music Composition"
monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf

>Jazz harmony (from the course at Berklee)
davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2006/04/berklee-jazz-harmony-1-4.html


PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS

>Basic composing
youtube.com/watch?v=hWbH1bhQZSw

>Free Notation Software
musescore.org/


IMPROVISATION

>Fake books for jazz and blues soloing
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzW9o5O35hQzMzA0ZmI0MWEtZGFmNi00OTQ0LWI2MjMtOWUyNzgyNmUzNzNm&usp=drive_web&ddrp=1&hl=en#

STUFF /COMP/ DOES

>the /comp/ YouTube channel
youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA

>the /comp/ challenge
[email protected]

>/comp/ Georgian Modes Explanation by yodAnon
dropbox.com/s/v26nd8bepv74d8s/Gregorian Modes v1.5.pdf?dl=0


Other resources (full of lessons and books): pastebin.com/k3xddxwr

Other urls found in this thread:

clyp.it/oujcf1fh
clyp.it/pbxi3c2t
youtube.com/watch?v=GIhKJLDI2Cw
clyp.it/dpwhd0j2
youtube.com/watch?v=FFPjFjUonX8
clyp.it/0xj3bd3x
drive.google.com/open?id=0B8L6-YOBO_NIOXk1OXRsTDlWMHc]
clyp.it/f53bzt5a
drive.google.com/open?id=0B8L6-YOBO_NIOXk1OXRsTDlWMHc
dropbox.com/s/eo7zvqvbfjz1puk/Neutral-Milk-Hotel-In-the-Aeroplane-Over-The-Sea.pdf?dl=0
clyp.it/rd1wrrwa
youtube.com/watch?v=bki5kEzYK7Y
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

sounds cool, I'll check out the links. Just finished Writing music for hit songs (good book) so I know the composition basics (can string sus2/7th/dim/aug chords together and write a melody), I can also work with Ableton pretty OK, now all that's left is some inspiration so I can write a few nice songs

/COMP/ CHALLENGE # 4

Compose a work based on the four melodic stanzas in pic related. The rule is that the stanzas MUST BE LEFT INTACT, however, I have intentionally left out time signatures and barlines so you can do whatever you want with the division of pulse as long as the note duration and sequence, essentially the melody, is left intact. You're also free to choose tempo.

You MUST use all four stanzas, however, you can elaborate upon them or use them as climax etc.

For example:

STANZA 1 - elaboration - STANZA 2 - STANZA 3 - elaboration - STANZA 4 - ending

or

STANZA 1 - STANZA 4 - STANZA 2 - contrasting part in the form of a classical minuet lol - STANZA 3 - disco funk into fade out

Instrumentation: 1 instrument that uses treble clef as standard + 1 instrument that uses bass clef as standard.

You have few instruments to work with here, so make them count!

No longer than 2 minutes and 30 seconds per entry. Alright? Pick a time signature (or several) and get to it.

Here's a clyp of the stanzas for those who don't read sheet music: clyp.it/oujcf1fh (don't let yourself be limited by the time signature, tempo and instrumentation in this example)

*sforzando*

dubs confirms

went back to fix this one up, it actually feels like a whole piece now even though it's short.

clyp.it/pbxi3c2t

first of all, is there a smarter way to write the chords in the end? it looks kinda silly without octave jumps.

secondly, do you have any thoughts on the piece? anything you like or thought i could've done better?

bump of bump

You could write the notes seprately, and include the 15ma over the intended note, or have that, with the other tones of the chord as grace notes

use a third line with ottava treble clef.

that seems a lttle over the top for just 8 notes?

hide the third staff, and only display it for the last 2 lines.

this desu

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What is a stanza?

Just a phrase

Bump

hey /comp/ i just put out a (i think very convincing) midi realization of a 3 movement solo piano piece and im generally curious as to what you guys might think. i know we generally like to look at scores but unfortunately the software i use doesn't make presentable ones... but if anyone listens and is curious about a particular part i can clean it up and screenshot and post

youtube.com/watch?v=GIhKJLDI2Cw

Would iii/IV work in place of those vii/IV's?

I don't think so. iii is a much more stable chord than vii

is the audio changing from left to right ear? why?

just a subtle panning effect... which i guess isn't so subtle to a good ear ha. just trying to add a little dimension to the sound

Here's something I wrote for the challenge, a WIP but I might not finish it

clyp.it/dpwhd0j2

>tfw wanted to write for alto sax x bass but the stanzas were outside the sax's range

I gotta admit user, i'm a little reluctant to listen observantly for 20 minutes to a piece i don't know anything about. I can't work on my own pieces, or listen to music i'd like to listen to, so i'll admit i listened for about 5 minutes, and then skipped into a few bits.

Personally, i think dissonance is a thing that must be used wisely, too much dissonance and not enough recognizable patterns will turn the ear off a bit. I think the start is a good idea, you make a pattern with the 4 beats going up, then surprise the listener with some unexpected chords, but after that, the music just turns into one of those puddles of paint blended gray together. There's not much for the ear to hold on to for me at least. It sounds like it's just a bunch of quavers and crotchets mixed together.

I'm not by any means an authority on atonal pieces though. But try and find some tricks to keep the ear interested, a few recognizable, interesting patters. Or maybe a cute recognizable melody, that gets tainted by some atonality.
youtube.com/watch?v=FFPjFjUonX8

Check out the start of rite of spring between 00:00 and 01:00. It has this adorable melody which is lured off tune by some other forces. But the ear is curious, right?

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thanks for listening and commenting. i can see what you mean about the rite of spring and i think its good advice. based off of what you've said i feel like if you gave a whole movement a shot you might better understand what im going for... but i understand it's asking for a lot. there is a largely very tonal section that starts at almost exactly 5 minutes and plays on some things introduced after the main theme that might be worth checking out

and for what its worth im more proud of the 3rd movement than the 1st

man that was really sloppy

download fl studio 11. pirate kontakt 5. pirate emotional piano and vienna grand piano.

a good majority of all "epic" orchestral composers (two steps from hell, es posthumus, etc.) write are done entirely with these samplers (adagio for strings, emotional piano, 8dio products, etc.).

you can make professional quality music in your own bedroom with the advent of the internet

this was actually done in ableton with kontakt 5 and alicias keys. ill check out the sample libraries you recommended. you didn't think the production sounded good?

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so rude user

i'm also working on my challenge piece but it's slow progress

Remember, [comp] is a nice thread

Harambe didn't die for you guys just so you could write rude comments from the comfort of your homes.

R.I.P Harambe.

can anyone help me with this pic related? I'm new to reading music.

Does the dynamic markings mean i start in P[soft] and go up to MF or do I start in MF and go up to FF?

Is the curved line above a slur or phrase mark?

Does the dynamic markings only apply to the treble staff[right hand], or both?

mf - f
slur
treble

p to mf
slur
middle of grand staff applies to both

Hairpins (these things: ) mean you swell up from the original dynamic (in this case mezzo forte), and then back down. Basically they're saying to do phrasing there.

And, well, you can't slur on a piano, can you?

Markings in the middle apply to both, though it's kind of ambiguous and you could do differently. But doing the same dynamic is easiest anyways.

I sense some disagreement

>And, well, you can't slur on a piano, can you?
A slur on the piano simply means you play legato, e.g. the notes are connected.

Whenever I want to improvise but don't really feel like just hitting the piano until something interesting comes out, I start playing this thing I wrote as a starting point, and just improvise from there. Anyone else do this?

>half an hour ago
>start improvising with it like normal
>end up playing a perfect, succinct little ABA', with the A' done just perfectly
>has never happened before, and that cool thing I did to end it, oh man
>quickly pull out my phone to record
>battery dead

This is why I improvise on a MIDI keyboard with my DAW recording. Never lose a note.

oh yeah, I was under the impression those markings and phrase markings are essentially one and the same on the piano, but of course now that I think about it that's not correct at all.

Still, though, here those are definitely phrase markings, they correspond to the hairpins and everything.

But can a midi keyboard pull off sympathetic vibrations? (I mean, not that the digital piano I have can do so either, but)

I sort of bought a cheap one, and the feeling of the keys wasn't exactly ideal but I had a ball with all the sounds I could now play with. Then it broke

How does a sheltered harmonyfag like myself into rhythm? I just can't seem to write anything other than straight quarter notes or half notes with the occasional passing tone here and there, because whenever I do it seems to clash horribly.

Study the masters, and don't forget the quote in the OP.

From my experience, you can try a lot of radical things, but you need to enforce the rhythm by repeating it a bit before breaking it. You can't just do a mumbo jumbo of random demisemihemidemisemiquavers.

And don't forget to experiment with triplets, and tuplets in general.

>can a midi keyboard pull off sympathetic vibrations
not really, but thats more of an extended technique than an improvisation thing. You should be carefully planning out silently depressed strings for sympathetic vibrations etc. Improv should be purely for generating melodic and harmonic ideas. I suppose you could add extended techniques in there, but I've found they're more something you add in after the main ideas are written, in order to accentuate them or create unusual timbres.

The exception is if you're writing a piece completely of extended techniques like Lachenmann in which case you tend to slowly work through a piece carefully transcribing the sound-world you want. Either that or record yourself tapping and scraping on a piano and then go back and transcribe it.

Either way if you feel like you might lose ideas, record your improv. If you're confident enough that the ideas will survive the improv session and only the best ones will make it to the page, then dont worry about it. I often just fool around improvising then take the finished melody or segment and write it down. Recently I just leave the DAW running though, as I can always delete the data later, and it captures everything I need to capture (I tend to avoid extended techniques beyond microtones)

In continuation of You can find hordes of example rhythms in etudes and variations. I took a few minutes to pull these out.

Here's 2 examples, first one is polyrythmic 6ths against 9ths, and second one is just a bunch of 16ths accompanying an underlying rhythm.

clyp.it/0xj3bd3x

Notice in the first piece how the rhythm is established in the first 3 bars. Then he begins to start playing around. He adds a beat in the start of the right hand now and then, and then he starts adding additional notes on every 2nd right hand beat. Then he gradually ornaments the rhythm and harmony together towards the end. On the paper it looks a little overwhelming but it sounds so simple to the ear, especially because of the evolution in the piece.

In the second piece there's an underlying beat of 16ths, which starts by sounding really confusing, but then a light melody emerges from the beat, it not only helps with understanding the harmony, but also helps with the rhythm.

There are so many tricks you can use, but you will only get good fast by listening and trying to understand what others have done before you. All the great composers took inspiration from previous composers.

And most importantly: Try and apply these tricks rather than just studying and understanding them. Do small experiments every day.

did you actually play this or was it midi -> ableton? because it sounds robotic as fuck

/bump/

it wasn't very convincing. "the funeral Of" - what?
The funeral of melody?

too many sudden transitions between seemingly unconnected material, to often quaver rhythm.

Did you actually write this at the piano or is this just randomly clicking into a DAW and keeping what sounds good?

I'd like to say that people today need a reason to listen to longer pieces. There's so much music out there that we are used to filtering away and turning off. It's practically impossible to listen to all the music that's being made.

So you need either people who believe in your piecee, as in an already established fanbase, or a convincing first movement, if you want people to listen to your second and third movements.

If you start your first movement with 5 minutes of atonal hell, I'll wager that not even 1/1000 curious music connoisseurs will give you the chance to play your third, before they switch on to another composition that might satisfy their search for new music.

However, you can also just keep making pieces, and maybe hopefully 1/1000 of your visitors will stay and you might build up a fanbase, who knows user.

It's just my 2 cents anyway.

>don't let yourself be limited by the time signature, tempo and instrumentation in this example
There's only like a couple of instruments that can play that anyways

some technical errors:
you're scoring for CB but I'm hearing everything in the cellos range. Is it just that your program is failing to transpose everything down an octave (to where you want it), or do you just want a very high CB sound (which I would recommend against), or do you really just want a cello?

I understand that it's for the challenge, but wind instruments shouldn't ever read chords, so I would suggest re writing the chords as grace notes.

the pianos in the KOMPLETE pack can do sympathetic vibrations, they're very subtle though

Anyone read and done all of the Fux exercises*? Is it worth it?


*asking for a friend

Joseph Haydn did, and he turned out pretty well.

But yes, every serious composer has done counterpoint excercises and worked through species counterpoint. fux is just one of the exhaustive studies of counterpoint that has become the olde standard. I think it covers fugues n shit too, I was reading some examples from fux in a book on fugues, the student had to write a basic fugue in every mode.

The book was "The Study of Fugue" by alfred Mann if anyone's interested. A more in-depth look at the fugue than say Hugo's "foundation studies in fugue"

He's wrote a separate book on Fugues I think.

I know most of the greats studied Fux, just wondering if anyone here has and if it helped then in our modern thymes

I've gone through species counterpoint at uni but never did the actual fux exercises. Gives you great guidance on good voice leading etc, but only really important if you want to write tonal music in the olde style correctly

Thanks for the response.
I've studied a bit of species counterpoint but get bored and wonder whether my time's best spent on something else.
I should probably focus my energies on developing ideas instead.

bumping with a note, if someone else bumps after me add a note and we'll write a song :DDDDD

F

Ab

Eb

didn't play it. midi -> ableton

"The Funeral Of" - what? The funeral of melody?

that's great i might keep that.

the "random transitions" were part of what i was going for. but i will agree i probably overuse quaver rhythms. i did write at a piano (actually a keyboard).

thanks for listening

yeah i get that. i really just sort of make what i want to make regardless of how i feel it'll be received. im not trying to become a successful musician... but im probably always going to make music. probably done with solo piano, however

>didn't play it. midi -> ableton

You should put some effort into your sequencing at least. Have the tempo be more malleable, don't have everything be rock solid on time, don't have the velocity be so mechanical.

>the "random transitions" were part of what i was going for
What are they achieving?

>i really just sort of make what i want to make regardless of how i feel it'll be received
Then don't for feedback, this thread is for people who want to improve

i tried my best with the sequencing. guess i could've played with the tempo more though i stand by how i handled velocity. as for the "random transitions" i suppose the goal was kind of a "nonlinear" approach to the "narrative" of the composition. think a david lynch film or james joyce novel. i came here i guess to get a wider perspective on the music im making... still looking to get better at making music but i try to keep the "worrying about what other people will think" for after im done composing. i.e. when i post it on the internet

/comp/ writes a piece

I made a couple motifs based on the three notes we were given, F - Ab - Eb. If y'all want to choose one, add another note to one, change the key, or make some new motifs and a phrase, we can start composing our first theme


I'm thinking ternary for this little piece, what do y'all think?

>i stand by how i handled velocity
It's really, objectively bad unless you want your narrative to be told by a robot. Like, your panning is really stupid and I hate it (why write a solo piano piece if you're going to produce it to sound not like a solo piano piece?), but that's a creative choice. The unchanging velocity in fast lines, like 6:14 make it sound like it was played by a player piano, and it's just absolutely not good.

>i suppose the goal was kind of a "nonlinear" approach to the "narrative" of the composition. think a david lynch film or james joyce novel
Fair enough, but do you think you did that successfully? In those films, whilst the narrative is non-linear, other elements contribute towards cohesiveness, which allow the non-linearity to have it's purpose. In your piece, it just sounds like you ran out of ideas so you took something out of left field.

well... i suppose that's all fair then. thanks for giving it a listen at least

It was very ambitious, but your other compositions are for more effective. What kind of non-tonal music do you admire?

bump

>not bumping with an additional note for this

maybe we should make a new thread with

Literally speaking I think it means mf to any point louder than mf.

But really, dynamics are relative and you should listen to the piece.

Also those are phrasing markings

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UPDATE

Variations on a theme of In the Areoplane Over The Sea

Composed by /comp/

You know, if anyone wants to be the savior of /comp/, they could take the MIDI file from here [drive.google.com/open?id=0B8L6-YOBO_NIOXk1OXRsTDlWMHc] and add good instruments to it.

This is the theme and variations, composed by /comp/, on ITAOTS

currently sounds like clyp.it/f53bzt5a

i was doing this then I realized I couldn't really do a good job without the sheet music. Can you put that into that drive too?

sure, but it's very messy. Why can't you just add instruments to the MIDI?

drive.google.com/open?id=0B8L6-YOBO_NIOXk1OXRsTDlWMHc

Because then it still sounds like dicks my dude. I want the sheet music so I can see things like the phrasing, dynamics, and such so I can adjust the midi data. Also stuff like pizz doesn't come through universally through midi, so I wasn't sure if there was any.

If you just drop midi into good libraries, it'll still sound like ass before you fine tune it

here's my score for the 2nd var.

dropbox.com/s/eo7zvqvbfjz1puk/Neutral-Milk-Hotel-In-the-Aeroplane-Over-The-Sea.pdf?dl=0

nice, the 2nd one is really great

finished with the first two, will finish the rest tomorrow goodnight comp

page 8

>Write in straight 8th or 16th notes.
>Delete the ones that don't add anything to the piece.

Who's this?

it says who in the title of the clyp user.

...

bump for ITAOTS

Has anyone here been bullied in a music program? I don't have good experiences with jealous preppy musicians. If you're autistic but skilled will they get jealous of you and abuse you in choir etc? I'm reading about it and apparently it's not uncommon, and considering the reactions I've gotten from mediocre musicians I wouldn't be surprised

>considering the reactions I've gotten from mediocre musicians I wouldn't be surprised

Could it be that the problem isn't so much them as it is your ego?

I always compliment people and try not to show my ego. Maybe they can sense it? I know what it looks like to have an ego and hide it

Some people are infatuated with me after I play others start to hate me

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bump with my wip of the previous challenge, that I started late. Basically, I'm trying to make a toccata over a Salve Regina chorale, with bits of the melody scattered throughout the voices. I'm still trying to find a better transition from the 9/8 back to the 4/2.

clyp.it/rd1wrrwa

Original song would be youtube.com/watch?v=bki5kEzYK7Y

p8

rautavaara is kill

no

literally no

requiescat in pace.