This album is pretty good

this album is pretty good

So Far is good too, such an underrated album.

at first i seriously thought it was a 0/10, i started to like it a bit more after repeated listens but i'm still convinced that the album is a joke

Jennifer is God-Tier

IT'S A RAINY DAY

yeah op, it has probably the best opener and closer ever

>those fucking noise sounds during the last track

what i hated most about So Far was So Far-Mamie is Blue, literally the most pointless songs ever written. It's like they were trying to waste studio time

dude wtf

is it also your first time in kraturock? have you listened to Can? or Faust - s/t

This is still their best though

i've listened to most essential krautrock, i love Can and Faust s/t as well as Neu!. I think the kraut minimalism was a lot more well done on It's A Rainy Day, or IV, or by Neu! than on those two tracks.

kraut is not about minmalism

i meant the minimalistic repetitive rock that Krautrock is known for

Läuft part 2 is honestly some of the best ambient i've ever heard

How the fuck could you rate it 0 unless you believe Kanye is the greatest modern artist or something.

it's not about minimalism, you clearly have no idea of what krautrock is

maybe not but the music can be described as being minimalistic without being minimalism. You understand what i mean
i said i rated it 0/10 at first

>maybe not but the music can be described as being minimalistic without being minimalism. You understand what i mean

i don't see what is wrong with what i said. If you don't think the song "So Far" could be described as being minimalistic you're an idiot

A lot of krautrock for sure has a sense of minimalism to it.

It sure as hell ain't minimal though.

Minimalism is not the same thing as minimal do keep that in mind guys.

Minimal = like simple not a lot going on smallest arrangements possible, etc.

Minimalist = that stuff classical guys like Reich and Young and Riley made super popular where there's some kind of repetition but with things building on top of that one but of repetition. Depending on who you're listening to, Krautrock doesn't exactly follow this rule the way minimalist classical does, but sure does implement aspects of it (ex. Soap Shop Rock suite in ADII's Yeti where it starts off as a heavy riff based track, then brings in more instruments, then proceeds to have those instruments do a minimalist type build-up to one of the coolest/most complex moments in krautrock and Rick music period), OR sometimes they follow it in a more exact definition (all of Neu! and Faust on many of Faust IV's tracks with their repetitive grooves.)

>Minimal = like simple not a lot going on smallest arrangements possible, etc.
yeah that is what i meant. The music doesn't fall into the genre of minimalism but is minimal in design

I can agree that Neu! is minimalist, but Faust IV is nowhere minimalist. Faust IV is a complex work of layers of textures and you can't really call it minimalism because it has a long groove, that's literally what psych music (hard psych) is.

>David Cope (1997) lists the following qualities as possible characteristics of minimal music:
> Silence
> Concept music
> Brevity
> Continuities: requiring slow modulation of one or more parameters [implying length]
> Phase and pattern music, including repetition [implying length]

now, Klaus Schulze's Irrlicht may be the case. Can/Faust it's mostly psychedelic/progressive.

So yeah, there are some albums that may be minimalist, but it's not IV, and it's not really reppresentative for the whole Kraut scene.

Like, do you actually know that there are many bands that do krautrock and it's basically just space rock?
how are:
>Soul Caravan
>Association PC
>Ash Ra Temple
>Brainticket
>AR & Machines
>Gila
>The cosmic jokers
"minimalist"? they are not.

tl;dr krautrock is not minimalist, altho' 10% of it may be

No it's not minimalist in the sense that it falls into the minimalism genre but it can be described as being minimal in nature. Songs like it's a rainy day and so far are minimal in the sense that they repeat a basic musical structure with only small changes being made as the song progresses

I agree dude, but that song it's not on IV

its good except for the fact the first track is 10 minutes of filler

The concentration on textures that get increasingly more complex over repetitive grooves is a minimalism thing though. Krautrock and Jennifer do that on Faust IV.

You bring up that earlier psych rock did it, but nah they lacked the groove aspect and didn't build up in a similar manner. With Faust again, I don't think everything they do falls into that category. Especially something like Faust I which is more progressive. With Can, it depends. Most tracks on Tago except Halleluwah aren't it, but quite a few tracks on their next two LPs do exactly that though.

Ash Ra Tempel is definitely doing minimalism though because a track of theirs will start with just some ambient sounds, then the groove that stays almost the same throughout, and then more sounds keep coming in and out making the piece more complex and the textures crazier as they go on. Most actual space rock like Hawkwind never had a format like that.

the jazz sections are so fucking bad tho
And like half of the album is boring pedo carnival music

you are correct, and So Far is a lot more minimal than IV, although IV still works with the same musical ideas, like says

>pedo carnival music
>boring

yeah guys I've come to realize that you are right. That said I still think that kraturock can't be strictly labeled as says.

Whatever

What's your favourite krautrock album? inb4 everyone says Tago Mago or Ege

Prolly Zeit, Faust s/t or Tago Mago.

But those are the best krautrock albums
The obscure stuff is still obscure for a reason

>The obscure stuff is still obscure for a reason
but they are not obscure, Agitation Free, Brainticket, Amon duul, popol vuh are very well known

I definitely agree that it's not that clear cut. That's kinda what I was tryna say with my first post differentiating minimal and minimalism. It's definitely there, but not as much people might think (especially for those that post here as Faust I and Tago Mago are the most popular ones here and those are pretty fucking far from minimalism.)

Anyway, my favorite Krautrock, and top 5 all timer is Amon Düül II's Yeti. The variety of instruments leading to a cool arrangement, switching from heavy riffing to prog sections to minimalism to jazzy improv, the psychedelic feel, etc. I fucking love this album. Just type in "Yeti mega" into the archive to just see how often I have droned the shit out of this album.

Yeah and anything less well known like, I dunno, Dzyan or Emtidi is obscure because they weren't as good as the well-known surface-level krautrock bands like Can and NEU!.

Yeti is literally just another psych/prog album. However well done it's just the type of acid rock everyone in England was doing at the time and doesn't really have what makes the other krautrock unique.
>inb4 find me another album that sounds literally note for note exactly like Yeti

pretty much my sentiment as well. Too much vanilla proge, too little KRAUT

Yes and no. Yes because yeah it's a psychedelic jammy album. No because it is far more all encompassing than any other album like it. Sure it doesn't do some sorta electronic sounds stuff with some grooves or w/e else makes krautrock unique, but it doesn't have to. It's the very best at what it does.

Compare that, to say...Tago Mago. The first half of Tago Mago has pretty weak jams with not a lot of variety/movement in them unlike the ones on Yeti. Meanwhile the second half has these crazy percussive tracks which personally to me aren't as interesting as what they were inspired from (Manfred Schoof's crazy free jazz percussion stuff.)

Execution matters more to me personally than concept, and that's where I think Yeti outdoes by far everything else that did anything even remotely similar.

idk man Paperhouse and Oh Yeah are pretty incredible jams. they're god-tier musically but they're also harmonious and beautiful in a way that Yeti isn't

Nah. Outside Damo's performance they really aren't anything special, forget just God tier. Yeti's jams are special because while I don't think the guys were actually that technical on their instruments, they knew how to use a large variety of techniques to being a bunch of different sounds out of them, and that's exactly what they do. As a result there are far more sounds and variety of how they are put together which lead to far more versatile structures and textures than anything else in krautrock and really even prog.

>they really aren't anything special
hah
Yeti is cool and all but it really just sounds like most british prog and doesn't really add anything to it. Can does something completely different, They fuse rock with some sort of funk and again minimal song structures to greate these gargantuan pieces that really haven't been replicated before or since. Tago Mago is a perfect album and songs like Halleluhwah are legitimate crowning achievements of the whole "rock" thing

You do know that Yeti came out in 1970, right? It added A LOT to both krautrock and prog rock scenes considering it came out around a time only when King Crimson were really doing anything like that, and even then they far expanded the sound from what KC did in fact you can hear heavy riff prog in Yeti before KC do the exact same thing years later on Red (with riffs not even as heavy as those on Yeti.) Yeah it has a lot of similarities with the prog scene, but I think that makes it all that much more fascinating and really more all encompassing of what was really happening in the early 70s. I think it's also worth mentioning that disregarding Yeti as generic psychedelic krautjam is what practically everyone does on their first few listens of that album (I did, for sure). But it's one that's constantly rewarding on repeat listens and more careful listens.

>They fuse rock with some sort of funk and again minimal song structures to greate these gargantuan pieces that really haven't been replicated before or since.
I love the band, but this is far from true. This was a thing many krautrock bands were doing at that time, and also something post-punk and new wave took up, too.

>Tago Mago is a perfect album
If you say so. I personally think Future Days is their best album. As I have already said, the first half of Tago is pretty weak krautjams especially compared to what other krautrock bands and prog rock bands were doing at that time while the second half is literally what Jaki did with Manfred Schoof but not as good since they decided to use primitive drum machines instead. Ege is where they really started doing the funky kraut stuff that kinda got popular within krautrock but they were still just messing around figuring out what does and doesn't work, but Future Days is more their crowning achievement since it kicks ass in terms of songwriting and has had an atmosphere so great that A LOT of ambient groups ever since have tried to capture it.

It may be important from a historical standpoint but looking at the music itself, it really isn't that technically incredible. It has a lot of whacky time signatures and guitar grooves but again, many prog bands would expand upon these ideas further.

Future Days is amazing but it simply doesn't reach the same level as Tago Mago. There's nothing wrong with the music on Future Days, but Tago Mago is completely perfect from start to finish. The rhythms and grooves are just so perfectly executed on tracks such as Paperhouse, Oh Yeah and Halleluhwah that it's just staggering to think about how they were even made. The drumming from Jaki is just so ahead of what any other drummer did in the prog scene. Damo's vocals are a perfect addition to the music as well, a great example is the screaming release at the end of Halleluhwah, which really drives the behemoth of a song together.
>This was a thing many krautrock bands were doing at that time, and also something post-punk and new wave took up, too.
people have done similar things but not to the same cataclysmic extent as on Tago Mago

>same "level" as Tago Mago
What the fuck does that mean? Tago has watered down jams, Tago's chaotic parts are watered down, too compared to the free jazz it's inspired from that does them in a far more interesting manner with more sounds and stuff. There are barely any actual grooves on the tracks compared to Ege or Future Days which have far more grooves than anything Can has ever done.

>It may be important from a historical standpoint but looking at the music itself, it really isn't that technically incredible. It has a lot of whacky time signatures and guitar grooves but again, many prog bands would expand upon these ideas further.

>Heavier riffs than Red
>More song structure variety than the vast majority of krautrock and prog including something like ITCOTKC or Tago which are lauded for doing so
>has far more instruments leading to an arrangement far more ambitious than anything in krautrock with the closest thing in prog that still can't match it being Genesis' SEBTP
>as a result of its giant arrangements its capable of took more advantage of the minimalism structures than anything in kraut/prog rock
Yeah...no.

>More just blah blah blah about Tago Mago rather than actually talking about what's going on in that album
Yeah...you don't want to discuss shit. You just want to regurgitate "Tago perfect! Yeti same old shit" while having brought absolutely nothing in terms of an explanation or anything as to what's actually going on in Tago Mago.

This is the most pointless discussion I have ever had on this site because you suck at telling your points. Shit, when I had that long as fuck discussion with Avant Math a year back on how Yeti brings more sounds and song structures within the album than TVU&N, at least he tried to back his points up with legit aspects about the tracks on TVU&N.

This "discussion" is pointless, and you shouldn't have started it when I said Yeti was my favorite cuz you don't really care.

Okay, let me be serious here, i'm not trying to bait or anything but why is this album considered a classic

to my understanding these guys spent all their budget partying and getting fucked up, and it when it was time to release the album they rushed out one of the weirdest pieces of "music" ever made, and half of the album is just improv anyways

what makes this so genius? clearly they were just trying to shit something out to get the monkeys off their back

what's your favorite part of the album?

I love the transition from Gulp A Sonata to Flesh Coloured Anti Aircraft Alarm. makes me cum every time

>watered down jams
>watered down chaotic parts
>ege and future days groovier than tago
are you fucking kidding me? Ege's grooviest moment is Vitamin C and Future Days doesn't even have any prominent grooves, none of it compares to Tago's grooves anyway. Moments like the solo on Paperhouse, second half of Oh Yeah and the entirety of Halleluhwah is by far the grooviest music Can ever produced. You bring up Yeti having "heavier riffs" than Red, tago Mago has heavier grooves and rhythms than anything else in the prog genre.
Stop being so salty about how your album was "le first psychprog even predates KC guys" when it sounds almost exactly like all other significant works within the style. None of the insrumental performances stand out to me, the guitars are fine, the drum fills are fine, nothing really memorable.
You should stop getting so fucking emotional and attacking my argumentation when i did bring what makes Tago Mago so good just as you brought up what makes Yeti so good. At least i didn't start assuming the other's motive like some overly emotional asshole who can't take someone else's argument

NEU! s/t is my favourite.

it actually has overarching themes, which are all basically provided by the poem at the end

I honestly think this might be the greatest rock album ever made. It's either this, TMR or Kid A.

I am not being emotional here. You're just turning this into a pissing contest. Your whole beginning of your "argumentation" is literally based around "how could this guy like something I would never think to be the favorite in a particular genre?" and have been going at it since.

>None of the insrumental performances stand out to me
>TO ME
>ME
You see what I am talking about? It's not even assuming when you can clearly see shit like this. Not to mention again, you'll see in my post where I said "type in 'Yeti Mega' into the archive to see who much I have droned the album in the past'. I have written stupidly long walls of text, over and over again, and I don't have the time nor the patience to do all that over again. You're far from the first person I have had this type of discussion with, and I am kinda sick of having it as much as I adore Yeti.

>heavier grooves and rhythms than anything else in the prog genre
>more stuff about grooves
But Can has nowhere near as many grooves as Neu! or other krautrock bands that focused on grooves. Paperhouse doesn't have grooves there's too much jazz based drumming with a lot of toms and snares while the riffs aren't as rhythmically based. Oh Yeah is like that but more rock n roll drumming. Halleluhwah is groovy for sure I never said it wasn't. But compare that to Ege where it's exactly going for grooves with an emphasis on rhythmic sounds rather than riffs that were on Tago (which, despite Tago's more surface level "experimental sound", is actually far more experimental than Tago.) Meanwhile Future Days takes that even further by having some sounds dedicated entirely to keeping a groove while sounds behind the groove existed for the sake of serving something melodic and textural.

>heavier grooves and rhythms than anything else in the prog genre
No shit, prog never tried to be groovy. Next thing you're gonna tell me that SPK is a lot more industrial than the Beatles. I wonder why.

Flesh Coloured Anti Aircraft-Alarm in general. First you got that transition that you're talking about, and then the constant build-up to that climax section which is still unmatched in krautrock/prog rock in how gargantuan it is.

Why don't we just leave it at the fact that our taste in krautrock differs from eachother and that there's no point in trying to convince eachother otherwise, especially since you seem to be so heavily emotionally invested in this album.