What's the most subversive music currently?

What's the most subversive music currently?

>artistically, politically, socially, whatever

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soundcloud.com/whitehottakes/knights-of-white-europe
thestar.com/entertainment/music/2015/12/30/lyrics-in-the-biggest-hits-of-2015-represent-a-new-breed-of-sensitive-misogyny.html
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crunkcore (haha im so funny xD)

GLOSS is pretty subversive politically and socially, but the music itself is just hardcore. Lyrics are pretty good.

>crunkcore
You know, I'm amazingly happy that I don't have the first clue what crunkcore actually is and I really don't want to find out.

It evokes a pretty retarded mental image of like the 3 Six Mafia trying to cover the Sex Pistols while dressing like David Bowie. I don't want to know what noise is associated with it.

>punk
>subversive
I'm not sure it can be any more. Punk was a backlash against so many things, and its sense moved pretty mainstream in all of those aspects: from musicianship to politics and general themes with all points in between. Now, it's just kind of a bog-standard "I'm angry" music.

Yeah, it's also unclear if something can be truly subversive if it has contemporary acclaim. I suggested GLOSS because of their focus on far left trans politics, which is pretty rare.

>far left trans politics, which is pretty rare
Outright yeah, but isn't that a huge general thing in dance culture?

Except three 6 mafia is actually good. Crunkcore is just emo scence faggots screaming over shitty electro beats

Steve Roden's work comes to mind. Stars of the Lid as well but they aren't as current considering The Tired Sounds came out like fifteen years ago

NSBM

The women owning their sexuality thing in a very direct way (Nikki Minaj, Tove Lo, Ellie Goulding, etc.) while being mainstream is fairly weird, but it's also a reflection of changing culture and not so much a subversion of culture. Actually, is there anyone out there who is singing about wanting to save themselves for marriage and create a nuclear family?

soundcloud.com/whitehottakes/knights-of-white-europe

either this or nasheeds basically

Fuck off, transshit is being pushed down our throats by the mainstream media. Caitlyn Jenner, that lady on America's Got Talent, nobody is allowed to question trans people or else you're a bigot, etc
GLOSS really just fits in with the current mainstream narrative
Protip: anything that gets a BNM on Pitchfork is not subversive

And men in pop generally tend to be effeminate and subservient to women
What would TRULY be subversive would be open and unafraid masculinity, you know, men who own their sexuality. You only see that in rap music and even then only black people get away with it

>You only see that in rap music
Don't forget about brocountry+Nickleback...

Nah, you don't really see open male sexuality in modern pop-country

this is hilarious whether you're serious or not

Not pop-country in general, brocountry. Shit like Florida Georgia line who only sing about picking up hot country girls in their lifted trucks.

I'm not sure, I'm not familiar with dance culture.

wow really?
You mostly hear country songs talking about fucking the farmers daughter or having sex with white trash in their pickup truck

modern pop country is all the same, thank god we have Jason Aldean to usher in a new age of country

Ah, well, dance culture has almost always been a haven for not-hetero-not-cis people (at least in the US, can't speak to Europe).

Yeah but that stuff's pretty irrelevant and not connected to the youth culture
To young people white men "should" be effeminate and woman-loving, those are the pop images fed to us

I wouldn't be surprised if they were serious lol. But yeah, I think it would be harder to name a pop act where the man wasn't masculine.

>modern pop country
Pro-tip: almost all country music that you've ever heard has always been "pop-country". You're from a large city, aren't you?

The most popular country is not really like that tho

Could you give examples? I honestly can't think of any?

>what is Taylor Swift's entire discography
I mean, I'm more on your side than his, but it's not that hard.

Im talking about modern pop country, the stuff that is only played over regular country.

I live with the highest population of rednecks in the world, I know what its like

Think of Justin Beiber or Drake or Timberlake or whatever dude has been on the top of the pop charts recently
All of them are generally effeminate and their themes are always sort of, how do you say it, like very positive towards woman, because anything else would be sexist or misogynistic or whatever
Black men usually can express their sexuality in a natural way and be immune to accusations of "muh objectification, muh misogyny" but white men culturally cannot be like that for whatever reason
That's why indie rock is so defanged and safe now, the sexuality is lost because male sexuality is so feared and hated

It's not anything like rap or something, country nowadays is not very masculine in the way I'm envisioning

You're not super familiar with Timberlake then...

Its always been like that, but it was much more prevalent in the 90s with contemporary r&b

Most of her songs are about her perspective, whether it's a dream date, a hook up, or a break up song. Still doesn't portray men as effeminate.

yeah because as we all know great art comes not from the heart nor from the mind but from the penis

Pop country has never changed since the 2000s

But rap today has been pussified

fuck off bitch
At least some voice for male sexuality in pop should be allowed, considering how far women's sexuality can go nowadays

Yeah, timberlake is definitely a bad example. He spends all of his time talking about how he's going to fuck women. Maybe some of Bieber's stuff when he was younger, but Purpose is litered with objectification and just using women to fuck. I might give you Drake as an example of effeminate, but he's often talking about how hard he is, and how the girl who left him was a slut anyways.

Nah, not really
Timberlake is rich and famous, and even if he talks about how he's gonna fuck women he never does it in a very degrading way, not so much that he won't have female fans that wet themselves over him
Beiber is the same
Drake is the same
There is no voice for the average man in pop music, just superrich celebs

Also, black men are constantly criticised for objectifiying women in rap songs and videos. Do you live under a rock?

hip hop music is utterly saturated with machismo and boisterous masculinity and is also some of the most popular music today. Is that not enough?

what about R Kelly?
Some of the things he says would never slip today

They're criticized but they are still successful
No. Hip-hop pretty much tends to exclude white people

>

thestar.com/entertainment/music/2015/12/30/lyrics-in-the-biggest-hits-of-2015-represent-a-new-breed-of-sensitive-misogyny.html

It's all part of a plan to emasculate and confuse white males, well promoting hyper masculinity to minority males

>criticized but still successful
So was blurred lines

yeah I see your point but I feel like it's really not a big deal. I think traditional concepts of masculinity should probably be questioned considering I think a large part of what it means to be masculine has in the past been dependent on dominance over women. Could be wrong here and I'm open to other views but it just seems that way to me

Do you seriously take this article seriously?
feminists
blurred lines wasn't sexist
uh huh

...

What's happening is one norm is being replaced with another, more confusing, more constricting and less free norm.
Women are getting more and more of the benefits of the masculine gender role and men still have to conform to traditional masculinity in a different guise but with even less allowed behavior

The article talks about how some people see those artists. Certainly doesn't seem like they're viewed as effinminate to me.

>blurred lines
Well, I think it was sexist but that's completely besides the point. It's a portrayal of male sexuality that was criticized, but still very successful.

I don't mean to be too dismissive here but at the same time I feel like us white men are probably gonna be alright

You seem a bit confused or misguided IMO. Go out into the world, see and talk to Women-shits not how you think.

different user, I feel like most men will be alright, but it's definitely easier for a woman to be more masculine than it is for a man to be more feminine

Was is sexist to you?

Kesha is pretty subversive

Blurred Lines? Yeah, I said it was. That's not really the point though.

>The article talks about how some people see those artists. Certainly doesn't seem like they're viewed as effinminate to me.
The article is ridiculous in premise.
The men are expressing their feelings and emotions and even that is not enough because it might be sort of demanding of something from women
Plus how is fucking lots of women a "sexist" thing to do?

If you think that was sexist, never listen to R Kelly

GLOSS a shit m8

Elysia Crampton and there is no close 2nd. She's one of the only truly subversive artists to emerge from the last few years.

it doesn't even matter if it's sexist, fucking lots of women is seen as a masculine thing to do. That was the whole point. Every example of men being portrayed as effeminate and subservient has turned out to not be an example of such.

What? I hang around women all the time. How come every complaint from men is met with "durr just go out and talk to women"

They fuck lots of women and then feel bad about it
I don't see anything sexist or subversive in any of this

I can critique the content of music and still enjoy it. If I can stomach g-funk I'm pretty sure I can handle R Kelly.

My argument was that it wasn't subversive. People said men were portrayed as effiminate in popular music. That's clearly not the case.

But it is tho
You can't say Drake's take on RnB is not effeminate

post ur tits

it should be noted that as hip-hop continues to dominate the mainstream it becomes more feminine, eg drake.

yeah, if you read what I said upthread, I did concede that Drake might count. idk if I'd call it effeminate, but certainly more emotional. Also, the initial argument was that white men were portrayed as submissive in genres other than hip hop. So far our only example is a black guy who plays hip hop/RnB lol

White men are portrayed as submissive. Or at least they are becoming more and more effeminate and submissive

>ignored

i thought i gave the correct unbiased answer desu

you know the genres that are part of actual tangible political movements and ideas that are coming to prominence in the early to mid twenty first century

this
punk after say 82 is almost uniformly shit

You keep saying this but you've given no concrete examples that have stood up to scrutiny.

Not really, its just neo-liberalism using politics and ideology to get more shekels.