>Loudness Wars refers to the trend of music being more and more compressed over the last couple of decades in an attempt to raise the overall 'loudness' of a track >Apparently this means the transients of a track aren't as punchy (drums are esp weaker as a result) >The whole track becomes a 'wall of sound' and elements don't stick out as much as they could
Can someone redpill me on this? Aside from the overall loudness, I can't actually hear the difference.
Compression on master tracks is actually a really complex topic, I would be surprised if anyone on this entire board is qualified to talk about it(I'm not in any official capacity). A compressor reduces the volume when the volume goes above a certain threshold then the overall signal is increased in volume. The amount of compression effects the overall tone of the track, differences in sound will depend on how much it's been compressed.
Grayson Wilson
>Aside from the overall loudness, I can't actually hear the difference. because it's probably shit music, shit ears, and shit headphones ya got.
Jack Gutierrez
See, I get all that. It all makes sense to me But then I listen to a ridiculously loud track like this: youtube.com/watch?v=ZT4yWlSttzQ Expecting the drums to disappear in the mix But they sound pretty sharp and punchy to me, even when I turn it down Or even a remastered track, like this: youtube.com/watch?v=EKW7aB-x1-g Sounds totally fine to me
Easton Thomas
maybe suggest a good comparison? instead of being an ass clown and my headphones are beyerdynamic dt770 pros, theyre pretty good
Drums can actually get punchier when compression is applied to them. There are also tricks used in that zomboy track to make the drums seem louder. When the BD hits the bass actually ducks in volume to give the BD more room to breath. Listen to the drums on this version of the Billie Jean, notice how they seem looser than the remaster. Youtube is kind of a bad listening platform since YT compresses audio.
You're listening on YouTube, and to two completely different tracks with no reference to a better source...
If you put an uncompressed track next to a compressed version and play/compare them at the same audio levels, the drums (for instance) will stick out more on the uncompressed track because they haven't been compressed and therefore are not the at the same audio level as everything else.
This is assuming this is a track where the drums are slightly above in the mix (where the snare hit my stick out more in the waveform) If we have a track where the drums a quiet, then compressing it would bring the drums (and everything else) up in the mix. That's just how compression effects an instrument, as opposed to the overall waveform of a song.
Go download an original, and a generic, loud remaster of a song (in good quality, not YouTube), and compare in, say, Audacity once you match the audio levels of the compressed track (which will be louder) to the uncompressed track.
Luis Carter
Yeah this guy runs that Dynamic Range Day facebook page, which I came across looking into all this. I'll defo check it out, and his other vids, cheers
Yeah sidechain compression is great for brostep drums. I guess the best thing for remastered versions is importing both original and remastered into a DAW and switching between them so I can hear the difference Cuz desu, when I adjust the volumes, those two Billie Jean versions sound the same to me. No massive difference really sticks out
I mean, I can see how it'd be an issue, but all these producers saying that it completely ruins a track makes me think it isnt as big an issue as everyone makes it out to be
Blake Rivera
Well I WAS doing that just now, but only with old and new tracks (that I consider very loud) I guess the best comparison is between original and remastered, so yeah I'll do that
I still think its an overblown problem though, if I can't even hear the difference on a YouTube stream
Carson Diaz
Some of this stuff is a bit overblown. It's mostly something that's talked about by mastering engineers. If you're not listening on a nice setup and don't have trained ears, it might not make a big difference. Also, the loudness wars are mostly over except in EDM. I think the 2000s were the peak of the loudness wars since a lot of digital limiters were first being released during that time, and digital limiters are the key tool of the loudness war.
Ryan Sanders
It really depends on the music. with some things compression can be a must, but often times in the mastering stage there isn't really a need to crush and clip it as much as it often is, unless you really want a particular sound.
Grayson Hernandez
this pisses me the fuck off
imagine paying 26 bucks for a 3 cd set and getting this shit
thanks r kive
Nathaniel Perry
not the user youre lecturing but is a great example of this
i can supply the original flacs for all three if you want as an example
Juan Martin
Post them pls
Jaxon Gonzalez
Did the 2012 Ziggy Remaster compress things further? I know it has a different sound, but it is more compressed?
Joseph Gonzalez
SHUT IP STEVE ALBINI
Isaiah Cook
if its too loud just turn it down. volume knob my nigga the reason that doesn't work with the original is because with limiters and compression you get really loud frequencies that aren't as easily noticed by the human ear, but they can still cause clipping and make your speakers distort. although in that example those are some pretty harsh limiters
three copies of the song the musical box by genesis
picked this song because it goes from really quiet to really loud
Jayden Martinez
Brick mastering pisses me off to no end.
I'll take high dynamic range over ease of listening on a car radio any day of the week.
Jaxson Walker
>YT compresses audio yt uses data compression, not dynamic compression, two completely different things.
William Hernandez
thank you user, this is a pretty good example. the '87 and '94 sound true to the master tape and era the album came out. 2014 remaster tries to give it a 2014 sound with all that compression and stereo 'enhancing' and, to me, it just sounds shitty. the last minute of the song is a good example.
Owen Gonzalez
ftfy
Owen Murphy
If the person behind the mastering does a good job the song could be compressed to the moon and still sound decently. Instead, if a hack does it, it'll obviously sound like shit. That doesn't mean using a lot of compression in the master track is wrong, I think heavy compression is needed in rock music, I can't listen to The Stooges or MC5 because of how bland they sound, I have to make my own compressed versions to enjoy them, otherwise they lack punch and aggression.
Jeremiah Morales
It's all Rick Rubin's fault
Aiden Lewis
you know it's bad when the loud part of the 87 is as loud as the quiet part of the 2014
Luis Gutierrez
> I have to make my own compressed versions to enjoy them holy fucking shit
Cooper Morales
is this real
Camden Young
Autism
Grayson Johnson
Walls of sound don't give the ear a break, meaning that you can fatigue your ears (and your body if you listen on a big stereo system) faster than if you listened to something that was mixed/mastered more conservatively
Cameron Carter
It doesn't even take that much to remaster them when you have practice tho.
Logan Barnes
It's kinda hard to explain but I think the best way to experience would be - if you get the chance - to listen to a record put out before vinyl was a novelty and play it through a nice set of speakers. You could use a CD released in the 80s-90s alternatively. But basically you can just hear and feel every bit of color coming from every instrument and it just kinda feels more real, or smoother. When I record music I mix it unmastered at first and it sounds so rich, but in order for my music to be able to keep up with other music in your playlist, I have to compress the shit out of it and the result is (speaking hyperbolically) a track that sounds like someone playing a song on youtube way too loudly over crappy computer speakers. It pretty fucked up too, because the richness of the music is totally stolen and it's literally 100% because of capitolism in the music industry. You could release great uncompressed tracks and all a person would have to do would be turn up their stereo but if you do that shit now it just seems unprofessional -.-
Carson Powell
>I have to make my own compressed versions to enjoy them, otherwise they lack punch and aggression. this is the stupidest thing I've ever read
I'd hate to see a 'remastering' process done by you. I'm sure it includes EQ-ing the already mastered and done music to the taste of you and your headphones, putting a limiter on it, maybe another tacky effect, and that's a job done.
Logan Nguyen
So you guys like all that lofi shit that is clipping like crazy and complain about loudness war. You go girl.
Luke Stewart
So what are some remastered albums done right?
Matthew Evans
beatles 2009 remasters
Isaac Taylor
>EQ-ing the already mastered and done music to the taste of you and your headphones
That would sound like shit if you don't have the separated instrument tracks, completely fucking up the mix, so no.
>putting a limiter on it In an already mastered song? That would completely ruin it, I'm talking about recordings from the 60's that sometimes are almost unmastered.
Christopher Rodriguez
This Fuck that fat cunt and his shitty production
Aiden Gomez
>I'm talking about recordings from the 60's that sometimes are almost unmastered what would these be?
Jaxon Wilson
>remaster it was compressed differently, with a different mastering processor
Christopher Hill
Pink floyd remasters, though i prefer the original mixes more...
Colton Peterson
When you compress audio you're taking the difference between the loudest stuff and the quietest stuff smaller. This not only means that the attack of a sound loses its impact, but it also means that the quieter elements of a song become less subtle. Something that works really well as a subtle, quiet element of a song becomes domineering and distracting when it's made louder. Even worse, the lack of variation in loudness means that the music can lose a sense of momentum, without significant differences to keep your interest the music becomes monotonous.
That said, it's worth pointing out that human hearing doesn't hear all frequencies at the same volume, some sound quieter and some sound louder even though they're actually the same volume. When you make music louder you flatten out these differences and you hear more of the sounds more easily. This is why people instinctively want to hear things louder, it simply sounds better.
If you pay very close attention to the music you listen to over a long time I promise you'll start to hear elements that you hadn't noticed before. Try this; next song you listen to try to name all the difference instruments you hear. To clarify, every individual drum, every synth voice, and every time a different-sounding guitar and/or vocal counts as a new instrument. You might be surprised by just how much is going on.
Josiah Wilson
>If you pay very close attention to the music you listen to over a long time I promise you'll start to hear elements that you hadn't noticed before. Try this; next song you listen to try to name all the difference instruments you hear. To clarify, every individual drum, every synth voice, and every time a different-sounding guitar and/or vocal counts as a new instrument. You might be surprised by just how much is going on.
This is the reason im obsessed with bootlegs, especially Pink Floyd's 77 tour. Its like they re-write the songs on stage...
