Welcome to the weekly Sup Forums jazz Blindfold Test thread. Every Friday and Saturday. If you're new, the point of these threads is to have fun and encourage critical listening, discussion, and general enjoyment of jazz. All critical music listeners are welcome. The more participation we have, the more fun and successful these threads will be. In the interest of keeping the thread alive and bumped, any general jazz discussion is welcomed here as well.
For more information about how the threads work and listening suggestions, please refer to the pastebin: pastebin.com/5cjEr3A6
THIS WEEK'S THEME: Big Band COMPILED BY: JTG
NEXT WEEK: ??? COMPILED BY: ???
If you missed last week's thread, DON'T WORRY. It's not too late. Here are the links for the mystery tracklist. Download the tracks, record your thoughts/guesses/evaluations for each one, and then come back and post them in the thread. Remember, people will be posting guesses and thoughts in this thread so don't read the thread until you have listened to the music and collected your thoughts in order to avoid spoilers. Track info for this week's tracks will be posted on Saturday, so if you see the thread is close to dying before then, give it a bump.
bump with link to yesterday's thread for more discussion for anyone joining today
Christopher Murphy
Do you have any playlists ready that we could do next week?
Did you say you were interested in putting together a playlist sometime?
Carson Watson
nothing completely ready to go that I'm particularly satisfied with...
I can come up with something if no one else does, but I'd rather have someone else provide one for next week
Ryder Ortiz
1. The arrangements on here are lovely. It goes easy on the ear while also having small bursts of loudness. It's a pleasure to listen to this. 2. More to the point. The opener gave me the impression I've listened to something like this before, maybe in some other blindfold thread. And that's a vibraphone, didn't expect that but I dig it. I also quite like the drumming on this. There's a lot of stuff going on at times and it's just great, I'd really like hear more of this. 3. It feels like this is constantly changing styles. It gives it some freshness but some I'm not sold on some parts like the sax solo in the middle. Doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the band, but maybe that's me. The flute at the end was pretty cool. 4. I like the tune they start with it but I feel they overdo it a little bit. It's nice they give it a rest after a while. It then gets even looser it's great. The horn duet was very enjoyable as well. 5. The way it opened made me expect more swing, but there's a fair amount of soloing instead. Afterwards both horns are playing the same thing I think, it's interesting but I also don't really care much about it.
Still listening. I could do a wildcard but I've got nothing prepared so I'm not sure about how it would en up being quality wise. It's also hard to pick stuff considering you guys have heard so much stuff.
Levi Clark
>Track seven From the opening piano chord, you know this is something modern. The song builds momentum, four bars at a time, as all the parts come in. All the lines feel like they’re pieces of something and as they’re introduced, I got a great sense of how they build up a single whole. Really nice way to introduce a piece of music. This is some hella arranging. Feels like a sax concerto. He’s expressive and he responds to the changing moods in the band really well. Around when he starts soloing again at 1:40 onwards, he’s playing into the tense chord progression with the very deliberate sounding and regular way he’s playing the notes. Once it goes into the happier chord progression from the B section though, he releases all that tension by getting much looser rhythmically and playing those big high notes. Gosh I love me a bit of melodrama and this piece is full of it. The sax player’s work is still on point for the rest of his time. He’s ridiculously inventive and there’s a bunch of melodic ideas he uses which I could nearly picture being turned into little vignettes by themselves. The way he uses one phrase to leap to the next and builds on ideas, I suppose they nearly are. The best of this track is definitely when the sax player has the horns behind him and I liked that they ended his solo with another chance for him to use them. First time I listened to this, when his solo ended and they introduced that new motif, I looked at my music player and I was surprised they were nearly only halfway through. I’d have been satisfied if they’d lead it out after the sax solo. The stuff that comes after is all pretty good musically but not as incredible. I had to think about this more than I probably should have but imma say this is a trumpet with an odd mute/mouthpiece/set of lips on it that’s making it sound so warm. I was high listening to this last night and I thought it was a trombone that was just hanging around it’s higher register.
Julian Stewart
>track eight This is really cute! It sounds like a jazz-funk band covering a Van Dyke Parks tune or something. The musical ideas are a little disparate and if I was making the track, I probably wouldn’t have done the horn line at 37 seconds that way. I fucking love it as a musical idea but the contrast with the funk bass is a little much and I think the two just sound weird next to each other.
Eli Turner
>Track nine This bass player plays free a little like I do when I’m feeling lazy. I like this though. The accenting game is crazy and the harmonies are a pleasant level of unusual. I think the bass and guitar do a good job of keeping things grounded. Love the guitarist’s contributions. They’re small but they give the piece this sort of vague “On the Corner Feel”. It’s a very maximalist arrangement but I’m not so much deterred by that as I am interested in listening back to this which I don’t really have the time to do atm so I’ll just say I love the horn arrangements in general.
Camden Flores
6. This is somewhat old I guess, the sound quality is sloppy at times but this still has a pretty swell song. Like with track 1 I enjoy the loud horn parts the most. 7. I really dig the sound of this. The saxophones are pretty swell. The whole band sounds great actually, and I love when they all play together. There's also a lot of diverse stuff in this track to keep it always fresh, it felt shorter than nine minutes. Would like to hear more of this. 8. Oh, this one I've heard. It's from consumation by Thad Jones and Mel Lewis. I listened to this when exploring big bands that made it past the 40s. I also listened to some Buddy Rich, I wonder if he's on this playlist too. 9. This too is pretty diverse as well, even more than track seven, and at times I feel like there's too much stuff going on for me to follow. Still pretty nice though. 10. Well this has pretty prominent drumming and it swings quite a bit so I guess it could be Buddy Rich after all. Judging by the sound quality on this I'd say it's also earlier than what I've listened by him, which is from the late 60s. I did not expect that drum solo to be more than half of the song though. It has some nice stuff towards the end of it but I'd have liked to listen to more of the band instead.
nice selection as expected
Kevin Reyes
>Track Ten This is the closest thing to a swinging old timey big band we’ve gotten through this play list. It more feels like a nod to the past through because it’s at least made in the 50s and sounds like it could nearly be something Bernstein would compose. Or maybe Benny Goodman from his more classically influenced years. Although. The drumming makes me think Buddy Rich. I’d say it made a lot of people think of Buddy Rich cause: fuck me it is so fucking flashy. Buddy wasn’t much one for subtle beauty and this fits his MO pretty darn well but I’ve already mentioned him like twice. Man, I’ve a real small pool of musicians I tend to guess in these threads and at least 70% of the time I just end up identifying people who were an influence. It’s like when everyone used to guess Monk all the time back when these threads started. Except most people’s guesses are more nuanced now and I’m still here yelling “Bud Powell!” at every bop pianist.
Ryder Ross
>2 The opener gave me the impression I've listened to something like this before, maybe in some other blindfold thread. I bet you probably have.
Jaxson Young
You should definitely check out this whole album.
Yeah this is definitely one that gets better the more you listen to it. Most of my favorite stuff is like that... although I'm realizing that may not be the best for blindfold playlists
It's not Rich on this one, but that was kind of what I was expecting people to guess. I think Jazzpossu guessed the drummer correctly in yesterday's thread.
Aaron Parker
So reading the previous thread, Dave Holland big band on track 2? I suppose the vibraphone is Steve Nelson who was on extended play. But I don't think I've heard any of his big band releases, anything you'd recommend?
Robert Murphy
>You should definitely check out this whole album. I plan to. Finding great tracks like that are a big part of why I love these threads, >although I'm realizing that may not be the best for blindfold playlists I mean, I tend to like it cause I don't start writing till I've heard a song full through and then I tend to relisten a lot when a tune catches my ear. I know some people tend to do these with just one listen but I can't picture myself being able to do that effectively at all. >It's not Rich on this one Every tiem
Aiden Barnes
Yeah. He's got just the two big band albums but they're both good. His octet album Pathways is pretty similar too though.
Jason Torres
I was actually expecting everyone to think it was Rich so I wouldn't feel bad about that.
I actually think the thing about influences is one of the best parts about doing blind listens. When trying to identify players it's so easy to pick up on all of their influences.
Matthew Thompson
Do you have any playlist ideas that could be ready to go fairly quickly? It's been a while since you've done one hasn't it?
Brody Gonzalez
Ok I'm going to start posting the reveal info pretty soon.
Camden Miller
All the same, I should probably try branching out with what I'm listening to. I've a tendency to just listen to big name players. I've got two I'm working on but nothing I'd be able to get done quickly. I'm also gonna be heading out soonish so it'd be a long while before I'd have one done. Soz
Mason Evans
>Track 1 Miles Davis- The Duke from Miles Ahead (Columbia, 1957)
Composed by Dave Brubeck Arranger and Conductor- Gil Evans Flugelhorn- Miles Davis Trumpets- Bernie Glow, Ernie Royal, Louis Mucci, Taft Jordan, John Cariai Trombones- Frank Rehab, Jimmy Cleveland, Joe Bennett Bass Trombone- Tom Mitchell French Horns- Willie Ruff, Tony Miranda Tuba- Bill Barber Alto Sax- Lee Konitz Bass Clarinet- Danny Bank Flute and Clarinet- Romeo Penque, Sid Cooper Bass- Paul Chambers Drums- Art Taylor
What better way to start a big band playlist than with a Gil Evans arrangement? Miles Ahead is one of Gil Evans’ absolute best works thanks to his colorful arrangements and orchestrations that make use of tuba and french horn. Every track on this album is a masterpiece but one of my favorites has always been this arrangement of Dave Brubeck’s “The Duke”.
Brandon Fisher
>Track 2 Dave Holland Big Band- The Razor’s Edge from What Goes Around (ECM, 2002)
Composition, Arrangement, Bass- Dave Holland Trumpet- Alex Sipiagin, Earl Gardner, Duane Eubanks Trombone- Robin Eubanks, Andre Hayward, Josh Roseman Alto Sax- Antonio Hart, Mark Gross Tenor Sax- Chris Potter Bari Sax- Gary Smulyan Vibraphone- Steve Nelson Drums- Billy Kilson
In the early 2000’s The Dave Holland Quintet was one of the most popular and successful groups in jazz. For this recording he expanded his quintet into a 13-piece big band for which he re-worked many of his compositions into full arrangements. “The Razor’s Edge” originally appeared on his 1987 album of the same name, which featured a very different quintet lineup of Steve Coleman, Kenny Wheeler, Robin Eubanks, and Marvin Smith. All of the arrangements on the album are very strong and manage to capture the energy and complexity of the original pieces and Holland’s style of composing and arranging have proven to be very influential to other large group arrangers in the past 15 years.
Lincoln Walker
>Track 3 Toshiko Akiyoshi/Lew Tabackin Big Band- Quadrille, Anyone? from Long Yellow Road (RCA-Victor, 1975)
Composition, Arrangement, Piano- Toshiko Akiyoshi Trumpet- Bobby Shew, Lynn Nicholson, Don Rader, Mike Price Trombone- Charlie Loper, Bruce Paulson, Britt Woodman Bass Trombone- Phil Teele Alto Sax, Flute, Clarinet- Dick Spencer, Gary Foster Tenor Sax- Lew Tabackin, Tom Peterson Bari Sax, Flute, Bass Clarinet- Bill Perkins Bass- Gene Cherico Drums- Peter Donald
Toshiko Akiyoshi was one of the first Japanese jazz musicians to gain attention in America after Oscar Peterson, while touring Japan, discovered her playing in a club and convinced Norman Granz to record her. She continued to gain attention in America through her marriage and musical partnership with alto player Charlie Mariano. Incidentally, Akiyoshi and Mariano’s daughter, Monday Michiru, is now married to Alex Sipiagin.
In the late 60’s she divorced and then re-married saxophonist Lew Tabackin and the two formed a big band that proved to be one of the most important lasting big bands of the 70’s and 80’s. Akiyoshi’s charts follow in the tradition of 60’s big bands (especially Thad Jones/Mel Lewis) but always have surprising and unpredictable twists. Long Yellow Road was the second album released by this band and was one of their best, even being nominated for a Grammy award.
Jose Rogers
At this point I gave up typing out all the musician credits so I've just got links if you want to see all the personnel.
>Track 4 Orange Then Blue- Sich Reped from Hold the Elevator- Live In Europe and Other Haunts (GM, 1999)
Composition, Arrangement, Alto Sax, Bass Clarinet- Andrew D’Angelo
Orange Then Blue was an experimental big band project based in Boston and was led by drummer George Schuller (son of Gunther Schuller). They recorded their first album in 1986 and recorded 6 albums between then and 1999. The band’s unique sound comes from their blend of the big band tradition (ala Ellington and Mingus), free jazz and classical music, and also from a wide variety of ethnic folk music, most notably Balkan and Klezmer music. A number of well-known players have spent time in Orange Then Blue, including Cuong Vu, Dave Douglas, Chris Speed, and Tim Hagans. I discovered this band through trumpeter Dave Ballou, who is a personal favorite of mine and plays on most of their albums.
Jonathan Murphy
>Track 5 Clare Fischer Big Band- Lennie’s Pennies from Thesaurus (Atlantic, 1969)
Composed by Lennie Tristano Arranged by Clare Fischer
I’ve always found Clare Fischer to be underrated and not very well-known except among other jazz pianists. Most of Fischer’s early work was as an arranger for the vocal quartet, The Hi-Lo’s, and for various Latin jazz groups. This album represents some of his best work as an arranger with excellent charts for 18-piece big band that are very much in the Gil Evans tradition. “Lennie’s Pennies” pays homage to another one of Fischer’s biggest influences, Lennie Tristano, and for the occasion Fischer plays one of his most Tristano-esque solos and features Warne Marsh on tenor, one of the players who is most associated with the “School of Tristano.”
Andrew Thompson
>Track 6 Art Blakey Big Band- Late Date from Art Blakey - Big Band (Bethlehem, 1959)
This is one of a very few big band albums that Art Blakey ever recorded. Art Blakey is known for his powerful playing and I think that translates well to the big band sound, even if the music might not be quite as memorable as his Jazz Messengers music. The band includes a number of well-known players including: Donald Byrd, Jimmy Cleveland, John Coltrane, Walter Bishop Jr., and Sahib Shihab.
Elijah Wright
>Track 7 Chris Potter and the DR Big Band- New Years Day from Transatlantic (Red Dot, 2011)
I don’t think it’s any secret that Chris Potter is one of my favorite players and I think it’s fair to say that in the past 15 years he has consistently been one of the most talked-about and celebrated players in jazz. I have always found his compositions to be a little underwhelming (when compared to his amazing improvisations) and generally my favorite work of his has been as a sideman on other people’s records. His 2011 recording Transatlantic is an exception to that though for its brilliant compositions and arrangements for the Danish Radio Big Band. The music has a definite influence from the large ensemble music of Dave Holland but also combines a heavy influence from rock music, much like Potter’s Underground band.
Elijah Harris
>Track 8 Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra- Us from Consummation (Blue Note, 1970)
The Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra has been one of the most influential big bands in the world since its inception in 1965. Since then, the band (in one form or another) plays every Monday night at the Village Vanguard. Jones originally served as the main composer/arranger for and this album includes some of his best work. The orchestra always kept a stacked lineup of players and this recording includes Joe Farrell, Jimmy Kneeler, Pepper Adams, Richard Davis, Eddie Daniels, and Roland Hanna.
Any musicians interested in these kind of arrangements should look into a book called Inside the Score by Rayburn Wright. He analyzes arrangements by Sammy Nestico, Thad Jones, and Bob Brookmeyer (who also often arranged for the Jones/Lewis Orchestra.
Kayden Murphy
>Track 9 University of North Texas One O’ Clock Lab Band- Modus Operandy from Lab 2011 (North Texas Jazz, 2011)
Composed by Michael Brecker Arranged by Kevin Swaim
Since the 60’s the UNT One O’Clock Lab Band has been one of the top student bands in the world and a huge list of notable players and arrangers have worked with the group. Every year the band records and releases an album and their 2011 release has always been one of my favorites. This arrangement by Kevin Swaim (who often writes for the ensemble) is one of my all-time favorite big band arrangements and I think it approaches the complexity of the tune better than the original (which appears on Michael Brecker’s album Wide Angles).
Thomas Nguyen
>Track 10 Duke Ellington- Skin Deep from Ellington Uptown (Columbia, 1952)
In a big band playlist I had to include something by Ellington of course, but I thought I’d go with something a little bit tricky that features drums. Ellington Uptown is one of his best releases from the early 50’s and is one of his only recordings with drummer Louie Bellson, the other being Masterpieces by Ellington which is also a fantastic album.
Mason Scott
Wow I never knew this album existed
Brody Flores
Wow, it's been a long time since I've listened to that album. I heard it like a year and a half ago and I didn't remember this at all.
Jayden Smith
bump
Jaxon Watson
bump for posterity
Brody Morales
so do we have a playlist for next week
Lucas Green
Well normally I don't like having the same person choose the playlist two weeks in a row but I guess we can do one of JTG's next week since he's already sent me a few that he has ready.
