Any example of OP's pic? How can a melody stay in the tonic?
Ethan Peterson
Mozart's piano sonata no. 10 (K.330) youtube.com/watch?v=-V4bGocFwnE the theme at 0:46 is played in G major then in the recapitulation, at 5:34 the same theme is played in the tonic key of C
Aaron Gomez
>Any example of OP's pic? Most first movements of multi-movement works.
>How can a melody stay in the tonic? Are you asking about the recapitulation? In that case you basically modulate in a different way from the exposition, but move to a place so that the original modulation to theme 2 is 'aimed' towards the tonic.
>2016 >still writing formulaic sonata allegro songs seems to me that music theory suffers a total lack of imagination when it comes to form
Jayden Rogers
You can easily avoid writing sonata allegro if you want.
Connor Howard
and yet it's probably a lot easier to avoid writing good, interesting, thought-provoking form than it is to avoid writing sonata allegro
Lucas Cooper
okay?
Landon Bailey
>songs It's named for the literal opposite of a song.
Jayden Fisher
what is the literal opposite of a song? silence?
Josiah Clark
A sonata. Something played on an instrument.
Brody Evans
>songs aren't played on instruments man.. what??
Austin Reed
No, songs are sung by a singer.
Nathan Jenkins
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Thomas Rodriguez
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Jason Rivera
>finished >haven't bothered putting it on Finale yet shit, shit, shit
Isaiah Perez
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Benjamin Bell
how do you apply counterpoint to melodies with non-diatonic notes?
Leo Price
You do the same.
Andrew Anderson
so if i have a cantus firmus in c lydian with a Bb somewhere in there i still just follow all the rules? wont there be le evil dissonances?
Hudson Butler
a song is a piece for solo voice and accompaniment, something the poplar music world seems to not understand.
Not every piece of music is a "song"
Better than intro-verse-chorus-verse imo. At least sonata form has some deveploment of the ideas. Something else popular music neglects. Melodies dont have to be the exact same every time. They can evolve.
Try applied chords/tonicization. That or treat the non-diatonic cf note as a passing note or something
Lucas Wilson
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Dylan Phillips
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Brandon Green
your chromatic note is either implying a non-diatonic chord, in which case you can choose notes that are relevant to that chord, or your chromatic note is a passing note or approach note, in which case you can treat your counterpoint in a parallel / contrary way (this is how augmented 6th chords started). You could also just have your counter voice be in a different species
Thomas Davis
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Robert Harris
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Hudson Brooks
draft for next challenge let me know what you guys think: compose a short piece for a single monophonic instrument making use of latent harmony (the implied harmony produced by the content of a single line over time, like Bach's Cello Suite Prelude). Instruments with limited polyphonic capabilities (i.e. the strings) can be used if those capabilities are avoided. The piece must be harmonically clear and compelling, it shouldn't sound like an unaccompanied melody. Use
I also thought of another challenge based on something I had done previously, not sure how you guys might feel about this but it could be good for a future challenge, please let me know what you guys think about it: Compose a piece where all the harmonic content is based on sets of triads with mutually exclusive pitch classes (example E, F#, Cm, Dm, none of the pitch classes of these chords overlap). You may use multiple sets of triads, or transpositions of one set, but they have to occur in different phrases or sections of your piece. Techniques such as suspension, pedal and harmonic anticipation and others can be used to develop the harmony beyond triads if needed.
Alexander Hughes
First challenge sounds simple and clearcut. Second sounds right up my alley, but could you elaborate on it?
Jack Cook
considering we've had some anons asking how to compose for melodic instrument before, I thinm the first is best
Noah Peterson
I agree, I was thinking of the second one for a future challenge and just wanted to get some opinions if it's shit or not So it's kind of hard to explain, but you can have four triads that don't share any common tones between them, an example is E, F#, Cm, Dm. Or C+, C#+, G and Ebm. Let's call these sets. Each section of your piece can only contain chords from that set, and you must use each chord in a set at least once per section before you move on to another set (you can use them multiple times).
EX. Set 1 is E, F#, Cm, Dm, my Section 1 has a harmonic progression of E Cm E F# Cm Dm, then I move on to Section 2 which uses Set 2, C+, C#+, G and Ebm, etc.
Here's an example I wrote, attempting to get this to sound as lyrical / tonal as possible. clyp.it/tfqj4oft My first section uses the set Db, Eb, Am, Bm. At 0:19 I move on to the next section and then use a different set E, F#, Cm, Dm for the rest of the piece. In the section section I used suspended bass notes and pedal to expand on the harmonic rigidity of the triads. I can post sheet music later when I get home if anyone wants
Basically the challenge is to compose with this specific, novel approach to a kind of """serial""" harmonic system.
Josiah Baker
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Blake Morales
One thing I don't see the point of is the mutually-exclusive rule.
Other than that it totally soundslike my kind of thing.
Gabriel White
The mutually exclusive pitch classes mean that your harmony will use every western pitch once, so it's a different approach to a softly serial/atonal harmony. It was really tough to write a melody when your harmony has zero common tones too, so it's a good excercise
William Nguyen
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Wyatt White
Im gonna be starting my first year in composition at this university this fall and was wondering if any comp students could tell me what its like. Am I expected to compose a certain kind of music?
Anthony Morales
In my own college it's more of a general composition class, some do jazz, some do classical, some do whatever.
My college is a community college (with an exceptional music program, but still), though, so take that for what you will
Josiah Young
what school
Ryder Perry
How can I make a chord progression that sounds like it's not going anywhere?
Luis Edwards
I-IV-V on loop
Christian Sullivan
what style?
But a tonic pedal point should work in most styles
Brandon Hill
ambient. tried some stuff with pedal note but didn't work
Lincoln Lewis
if it's ambient you don't necessarily need to think in terms of chord progression. You can try to think of your harmony as a lot of lines that move around independently, making incomplete chords, clusters, etc. i attached a pretty shitty example of what I'm talking about (i'd have this really slow, and not all the same note value, but just demonstrating how i'm talking about the harmonic movement)
Also, why was the pedal note working?
Cameron Thomas
Careful not to get it to sound like a dominant pedal instead.
Brandon Morales
Never go back to the I chord, perhaps try using serialism or even just random bass notes so that we never get a sense of key.
You could also try an ostinato bassline like E-F-E-D# on repeat
Evan Davis
comp is ded
Jace Hughes
it's nighttime in the americas
Cameron Peterson
it been dead all day. 64 posts 14 posters
Elijah Walker
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Leo Ward
university of Toronto
Dylan Ramirez
RIP in peace comp
Juan Sanchez
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Blake Hill
you're doing one of these?
MUS 110H1 - Introduction to Music History and Culture MUS 111H1 - Historical Survey of Western Music MUS 120Y1 - Vocal & Instrumental Ensemble I HMU 111H1 - Introduction to Music and Society TMU 115H1 - Musical Skills I & II TMU 140Y1 - Music Theory I & II
regardless, you'll be composing western art music - classical music
Mason Sullivan
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Nathaniel Parker
May comp survive the night
Lincoln Peterson
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Jacob Bell
life support
Jose Torres
I've been a bit dry these days. Anyways, will try and put together the steam on figured bass this weekend.
Anyone know some good software for visualizing midi keyboard input for windows?
Lucas Parker
any DAW
Even Audacity has MIDI support
Oliver Cooper
Alright, cool
Anthony Sullivan
wait, I don't really think you should use Audacity. Other DAWs are way better. FL Studio is generally regarded as having the best piano roll (it's what displays MIDI data), butt is sometimes regarded as a weaker DAW (for whatever reason). Abelton is more popular amongst professionals, and Cubase is actually made by the company that invented VSTs, a common type of MIDI instrument. Reaper is free, and pretty good too. Free doesn't mean shit though, you can easily find some crack for each software somewhere.
Easton Williams
hey im new so correct me if this wrong for challenges, are there like set rules that youre supposed to evoke a certain period of classical music or can i go full avant garde all of the time
Henry Torres
Most of the time challenges are open-style, people have submitted jazz and electronic music before so do whatever as long as it fits.
Of course full avant garde serialism and microtonal granola clusters won't work if the challenge has something to do with traditional harmony, etc. Well maybe it will, just go for it who cares
Right, but my problem with that is that it's really limiting. I'm trying and failing to assuage my autism and figure out the mathematics behind this, but I mean for instance, let's you're trying to come up with a set, and you start out with two major triads a half-step apart. >CEG, CMaj >DbFAb, DbMaj >remaining notes: D, Eb, Gb, A, Bb, B So long as you're sticking to triads, you have only one possible 'solution' to the set, and one of the chords is only technically a triad. >CEG, CMaj >DbFAb, DbMaj >GbBbD, Gb+ (D+, Bb+) >ACbEb, Italian sixth (but in 'root' position)
So yeah, my main objection is that you end up having to use one of a few possible chord relations.
Mostly though I was sort of working out ways to serialize chord quality and harmonic rhythm so I could invert it and get up to all sorts of shenanigans
Nicholas Barnes
It is very limiting, but less than you imagine. If you consider transposition and the fact that you change sets after using all the triads in your set, you can move around quite a lot.
A way to loosen the restriction would be to allow non-triadic three note chords, so you could have a set like C major Eb minor F dim D A C# (incomplete Dmaj7) but that would be less conducive to some styles over others
Josiah Perry
>serialism >avant-garde some 50 years late brod
Luis Nelson
>say granola clusters >still get taken seriously okay boy...
James Long
yea those are my core courses :) Has anyone here, gone to a similar school as this one that could tell me how it was?
Noah Parker
Right, but I mean the point of sets and serialism was that it remained in use at least for a significant part of the piece. (Of course, the original point was just to systematically use all pitches equally often, but I'm talking about serialism post-Schoenberg.) Not much point in having a set if you change sets immediately after using it once.
Ryder Martinez
how do you audition for a conservatory if you want to be a comp major? i am nowhere near a professional on my best instrument and just want to write music
Matthew Peterson
Well this system is not quite serialism anyways, it just forces you to use each western pitch harmonically in a fairly short time, so it's more like a different harmonic system altogether rather than drawing from serialism. I don't think the fact that you can change sets gets in the way of that goal, since you're still being forced to incorporate each note into your harmony
Leo Brown
please respond
Asher Ward
well I auditioned by playing some repertoire on my instrument and having a portfolio of some of my compositions but mine was a university, not a conservatory. there was also an interview. The process differs slightly depending on the conservatory but the specifics are usually on the website and its all similar stuff
Thomas Parker
I know some places just require the portfolio/interview
Nathan Hall
>try to do something slightly uncommon with a hairpin >Finale quits unexpectedly >three hours since my last save
fuck it, you're just getting the notes and a recording.
Jordan Hall
Could someone explain why a 'CMaj7 to a Bmin7' chord progression sounds so beautiful? What exactly am I doing?
Is it a 6 to 5 progression in the key of Em, or perhaps tritone substitution in the key of Bm? This has to be one of my favorite chord movements I've discovered, but I am a music theory newfag, and am pretty much just stumbling around blindly right now.
Please enlighten this pleb Sup Forums! I beg you
Carter Jenkins
If you literally only have the chords Cmaj7 to Bmin7 in a vacuum I would say you're in C lydian and you're going from IVmaj7 to VIImin7. This of course depends on your melody, and the rest of the piece. I would say it's probably not E minor, could definitely be G major and you're just doing IVmaj7 to IIImin7 (IIImin7 being a substitution of I maj7, so you're just doing IV I IV I etc)
But yeah exactly what you're doing depends a lot on context and melody, but it's pretty because you're implying a C lydian scale with the F# from B minor, and lydian is pretty.
Asher Lee
I just reviewed my melody, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said I was in the key of G and doing a IV-I-IV-I. I had no knowledge about the idea/concept of substituting the tonic. Thanks for that now I can read up on this on wikipedia.
Hey, by the way, and I may just be fucking retarded, but if I were in C lydian wouldn't this by a Imaj7 to VIImin7?
James Hughes
>but if I were in C lydian wouldn't this by a Imaj7 to VIImin7? Yup you're right I'm just a fucking retard
