I do not know much about rap and hip hop except for some songs I like to hear; I have no artist that I particularly like.
However I often saw the cover of this CD under discussion here and elsewhere, and I was curious: what makes this a great album? What is so iconic about it?
I will listen to it now, but first I wanted to know if is overrated and I should not be expecting too much of the material.
The last third of the album is kinda too soft but yeah it's a very important hip hop records for its flow,production and topics and helped giving new life to New York hip hop which was at the time losing to the west. Most rappers during the late 90's and early 2000's were influenced by this album or artist that followed it. Nas never topped it.It's not overrated but dont expect more than street bragging out of this tape.
it's not overrated. I don't really know how to explain what makes it good. if you're not into hip-hop/rap already it may not click with you right away. it's basically one of those albums that influenced literally everything that came after it in the genre. there are better places than Sup Forums to read about why it is so cherished
In a nutshell:
In around 40 minutes or so, Nas, aided by some of the most prominent East Coast hip-hop producers of the '90's, not only painted what is probably one of the most vivid and detailed pictures of the state of urban public housing during the crack epidemic that had been going on since the late '80's, but also took hip-hop lyricism to new heights in style, technique, and literary substance, using techniques such as internal rhyming, multisyllabic rhyming and compound rhyming, and enjambment. The album also helped define the gritty jazz-influenced East Coast hip hop sound that proliferated the region in the '90's, and stylistically inspired many rappers not only from the projects where it was born, but all over the country.
In short, it's a great introduction to the genre, and deserves its praise.
To add to this, if you're not really accustomed to listening to hip-hop like I was when I first listened to it, I would heavily recommend having the lyrics on hand, and not only pay attention to their meaning, but also how they sound phonetically, the diction used, and how the bars within the verses connect to each other (enjambment is one way in which this occurs.) I say this because my first time through, I found myself lost in the density of the verses and most of them flew over my head. The album was a grower for me, but if you stick with it, you won't be disappointed. Of course, you don't have to do all of this; your enjoyment should come first. Analysis is a byproduct of enjoyment, after all.
I think you have to evaluate the hip hop lyrics based on historical individuals who wrote them.
For those who are accustomed with high-level poetry like Shakespeare, Blake, Neruda, Homer, Virgil, Coleridge, Rimbaud, Aeschylus, etc., the lyrics of hip hop look like drafts, like notes of ideas that could be developed, filled with similes and metaphors, with memorable verbal fire, modeled into great works. They seem like early stages of composition or sketchbooks. If you expect great poetry of the lyrics you will be disappointed, I'm afraid.
But if you have in mind what was the instruction of the people who wrote these letters, which were their hardship and limitations of means, then they become significant; you wonder "how far that person could go with the proper instruction?".
Also, if you plan to write something about poverty and urban violence, listening to such music is a great source of ideas.
Amazingly well done lyrics accompanied with simple and repetitive beats
I'd say that The World Is Yours, Halftime, Memory Lane, One Time 4 Your Mind, and It Ain't Hard To Tell still bang. Granted, I love every track on the album, but I'd say those are the tracks most people would say still sound fresh.
>not N.Y. State of mind and life's a bitch
that being said
[spoiler]it ain't hard to tell i excel then prevail the mic is contacted i attract clientele[/spoiler]
If I was being honest, I would have included every track on the album in my post; I think they all hold up and are 10/10's, but what I posted seems to be the consensus on what tracks have aged well.
...
probably had the best flow of the game but didnt shared enough of the many point views on ghetto life like nas or even Pac did.
Who cares he rapped about what he knew which was the ghetto life unlike pac and nas who just made shit up.
I don't care for Pac but Nas was a storyteller. That being said I quote biggie all the time so don't think I don't like him more than pac and nas.
''It don't make sense, going to heaven with the goodie-goodies. Dressed in white, I like black Timbs and black hoodies''
''Money and blood don't mix like two dicks and no bitch
Find yourself in serious shit''
''When it's time to eat a meal I rob and steal
cause Mom Duke ain't giving me shit
so for the bread and butter I leave niggaz in the gutter''
Niggaz Wit Attitudes
>if you're not into hip-hop/rap already it may not click with you right away.
This is a good way of putting it. Once you grow familiar with hip hop you will come to treasure it as a watershed album, but I wouldn't be surprised if nothing really jumped out at you as a novice. Some of the beats will sound pretty fresh, some will probably sound dated.
That said I think it's a perfectly good entry point because it IS a solid album on all levels. Great production, and Nas is a great emcee both in terms of his voice and cadence, and his lyricism/storytelling.
And best of all it doesn't go on for a million fucking years. Hip hop's greatest sin is album length.
Illmatic and Nas in general is entry-level garbage. Death Grips is currently the only decent hip hop group to ever live.
That's not true at all, both Biggie and Pac completely fabricated their gangsta credentials.
That said I don't think there's any contest that BIG just dwarfs Pac and Nas in the heirarchy of rappers. He runs fucking rings around them with his storytelling. They could never have attempted something like playing two characters in Gimme Tha Loot. Or contextualizing a "just how badass is he?" boast song with a home invasion (Warning).
I know Nas has interesting points of view but he never in a million years could deliver them with the same level of virtuosity Biggie could deliver a simple boast.
The best contemporary hip hop isn't even hip hop.
Death Grips, Subtle, the list could go on...
Nas, Pac and Biggie are all low-barrel rappers if you're gonna talk about a hierarchy of rappers. Biggies storytelling shit too
Biggie was a better storyteller its not even a question and he didn't fabricate his credentials he was in jail before being a rapper
Death Grips is a noise/punk band that occasionally uses hip hop elements (the rare moments where Ride actually raps and doesn't just yelp, the occasional hip hop beat)
I guess I'll except Subtle, although they're not anywhere near the best of contemporary hip hop.
If you compare his real life criminal record with the subject matter of his music, you have to admit that it's 99% fabrication.
>weapon-possession and drug arrests
>songs about indiscriminately killing people and raping women
>doesn't have the balls to drop any names to support his argument
If you can point me to something "hip hop" better than Subtle I would be astounded, because even DG is shite compared to most Themselves stuff, and most other experimental rap stuff sucks compared to DG.
Killah Priest, Kurupt, Ras Kass, Pharoahe Monch, Breeze Brewin'
Like, opinions, but for real, if For Hero: For Fool is in my top five albums of all time, what should I listen to?
All niggas below Pac, Nas, and Big.
Ready to Die and Illmatic are top 5 albums in the entire genre fuck outta here with that backpack bullshit
Damn dude, thank god you didn't throw in Canibus.
I totally respect KP, Monch, and Brewin as top tier rap choices. And all three are better than Pac and have a better discography than Nas/Pac/BIG (although to be fair, two of those dudes died before they produced many albums).
But they don't have Biggie's voice or delivery, or creativity with the storytelling approaches. It's not even a fucking contest. You just prefer more cerebral, mush-mouthed rappers.
By the way I think Scarface and Ghostface are better than anybody heretofore mentioned in this thread.
But that's all they fucking did. There are at least 4 Wu Tang members who have far better discographies than Pac, Biggie or Nas.
Pac and Big are dead, but their output was highly influential. Nas has Stillmatic, and It Was Written as classic albums.
Method Man is great, but his highs aren't as high as Ready to Die/All Eyez on Me/Illmatic
Rae could've been something, seeing as OB4CL can easily argued as a GOAT tier album, but he never went anywhere else
GZA has Liquid Swords, that's it.
Ghost is the only one that can really be argued since he has Supreme Clientele, Fishscale, Ironman, and his contributions to OB4CL
who?
Not who you're talking to but
>1 GOAT from Nas, Big, Gza, Rae
>3 pretty great albums from Ghost
who has the best discography?
(Stillmatic and It Was Written are crap imo)
Pun takes a hot shit on all of them and he only needed 1 album to do it
>stillmatic
>classic
you nas fanboys really are masters of revisionist history
Once you get the general-opinion-dick out of your ass and realize that both those albums aren't actually as good as they're hailed to be, you'll be better off.
>thank god you didn't throw in Canibus.
I actually thought about it for a second, but considering all the meme arrows I'd accumulate for doing it I couldn't be bothered. He's still in the upper echelon of rappers desu
As for storytelling I'd argue Slug or The Ruler are better than Biggie.
>Ghost is the only one that can really be argued since he has Supreme Clientele, Fishscale, Ironman, and his contributions to OB4CL
First of all, you don't only count the fucking solo albums. Depending on how much of a dick you are there are also 3-4 classic Wu Tang group albums. Albums that are classic because of their verses.
So with that in mind:
Deck, especially given Czarface I and II
Killah Priest easily. Psychic World is probably the best Wu-related joint of the decade
I haven't really explored but I have peeps repping u-god and cappa's solo shit to me on the regular
and that's not even touching the big names like Meth, GZA and RZA.
I just have no idea where yall comin from
That's actually why I said it, I will never abandon any rapper who does a 1000 bar infinitely permutable song.
But that said I also get where his detractors are coming from. Don't you?
>I actually thought about it for a second, but considering all the meme arrows I'd accumulate for doing it I couldn't be bothered.
That's what I mean to greentext in this post
>the lyrics of hip hop look like drafts, like notes of ideas that could be developed
one of the most ignorant blanket statements I think i've ever seen posted on Sup Forums unironically
36 Chambers and Wutang Forever. Their other output is ass, senpai.
I'll concede on the Czarface albums. Psychic World < Sour Soul/36 Seasons tho
I've got Ghostface in my Top 5, desu. But to dismiss Nas, Pac, and Big is just contrarian.
Pun definitely could've made a claim for the crown had he lived. Legend taken too soon.
Don't even like Nas that much, but Stillmatic is the album that basically saved his career as a rapper, many see it as a classic
doom is better than nas
It has an incredible depiction of East Coast inner-city street culture. Not necessarily gang-related but not necessarily without violence or organized crime. The 'every man for himself' mentality shows through this album in a really interesting way.
Rap artists also usually go two routes in their identity: king of the world (Waka Flocka or something like that), or a wretch (like Good Kid Maad City). This is one of the first albums to balance that out to something that's relatable but sought after in street culture. Nas isn't talking about himself like some fantastical crime lord, but he's still got this attitude like he has control over his life and his business is his own.
A lot of the tension in the album can be felt too, like a film noir but with music. All the high-pitched street noises and hard talking paint an extremely gritty dystopic picture that a lot of people either relate to or find really fascinating.
>But that said I also get where his detractors are coming from. Don't you?
Alas I do, have you listend to any of his new stuff?
>Their other output is ass, senpai.
I thought so for the longest time, but I have come to include The W as well.
Honestly I had a sick fascination with Fait Accompli ... it's like the Timecube or David Icke of hip hop. Kinda like if Mm..food? had been made by a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
But I don't really want to listen to it ever again
>It's the red chinese!
>They want gold
>They want silver
>They want copper
>They want ___
I'll give the W another listen.
Wu's still the GOAT hip-hop group if only for 36 chambers and the member's solo output
ey man since you actually fuck with hip hop and don't just stick to the household names, let me rep you this shit that isn't GOAT but is definitely worth your while and up your alley:
youtube.com
Yeah it kinda drags on but it's definitely an interesting listen.
What about Time Flys, Life dies, Phoenix Rise or that "Canibus presents Almighty" with Planet Asia and some other dudes?
Haven't gotten around to Time Flys yet but it has some dope features so I'm looking forward to it(not looking forward to the Dizaster feature though)
This reminds me of something, I can't put my finger on it and it's pissing me off
It was dope though, check this while I try to find out what it reminded me of
youtube.com
Found it
youtube.com
>What about (all this shit)
Nope I don't know ANY of that
>It was dope though
Revisiting the album, its solid throughout
youtube.com
>check this while
Um. This is fucking awesome man. As far as I can tell it's not well known, are you repping your own shit??
I don't know what to say man. I really loved this. You are kicking mad science as far as I'm concerned.
You have any bucket list essentials you want to throw me before I go attend reality?
>Revisiting the album, its solid throughout
Video isn't available here but I'll definitely check it out
>As far as I can tell it's not well known, are you repping your own shit??
Nah lol
Pic related
Kero One - Windmills of The Soul
Tanya Morgan - Brooklynati
The Insects - Winds Of Change
>Typical Cats
my nigga. I knew you and i were on a page. qwel's deuterium was a touchstone for me.
looking forward to going through your recs. if anything else occurs to you, post it. leaving the tab open. check out Homeboy Sandman if you havent.
Err the insects album is called Free The Hard Way
Yeah Qwel is mad underrated, Sandman is good as well
One-2 - Kabob & Vodka
Mr. Muthafuckin' eXquire - Kismet
Looptroop Rockers - Modern Day Symphony
Illmatic is without a doubt one of the most overrated albums of time, even if it's "solid" and extremely influential.
I'm actually really surprised to see no one mention The Infamous, or any of the Gang Starr albums (if only for Primo since Guru was never a top tier MC) or DITC solo stuff other than Pun. Strictly East-Coast speaking, there are tons of classics that get overlooked by people just scraping the surface of this stuff, but that's to be expected with any situation like that.
For anyone looking for recommendations, I'd advice checking the following:
Artifacts (and Tame One's solo stuff as well)
Organized Konfusion's second album (Pharoahe Monch's duo)
Big L's solo album
O.C.'s first album and Starchild album
Pretty much all of Gang Starr's output (No More Mr. Nice Guy and Hard To Earn in particular, though)
Really disappointed with mentalities like
Whoops also The Infamous by Mobb Deep. That's a classic. Hell On Earth was decent as well, but doesn't measure up to Infamous.
I know you i'm probably not telling you anything new, but it's important for me that OP knows it: while Illmatic was definitely original and fresh in all aspects, it was far from 'experimental; it didn't really invent anything. Something new was cooking in the east coast ever since the early 90's, with groups and artists like Main Source, Gang Starr, Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth, Black Moon, Redman, Nas himself and even the Boogie Down already showcasing most elements of the 'east coast renaissance' prior to 94. Illmatic, if anything, is the pinnacle of an incredibly dense explosion of ideas and talent in the east coast, pushing it forward for half a decade. It's mainly the perfection in which all these ideas were presented with on Illmatic that helped east coast hip hop to finally find itself under the spotlight again (and given the fact Ready to Die was released the same year, boy was it there to stay...).
So yeah OP it's an incredible album but expect hip hop. Not something you haven't heard probably, just pretty much as good as it gets.
Death Grips, at least before GP, were noise-hip hop. And while they carry the punk spirit and have recorded Giving Bad People Good Ideas, I wouldn't call them punk.
>tms
>anything but agressive urban electro-pop
>Kurupt
>Killah Priest
lmao just throw in every second tier rapper you know.
If you insist, 90's rappers who can compete with them:
>Pharoahe
>Myka 9
>Busta
>Rakim
people really can't fucking form an opinion on their own. fucking fag
>Neruda
>high level poetry
>Kurupt
>second tier
lol if you say so, user
and kurupt did what nasir has tried & failed to do multiple times, release a great modern rap album
>Kurupt
>second tier
>goes on to naming literal who 9
high level ≠ complex
>7 years ago
>modern
if you dont know myka 9 then you are a real life retard
I think punk is one of the big umbrellas and DG easily falls underneath it.
So does a LOT of noise for that matter. There's hardly a release in the entire Amphetamine Reptile catalog that couldn't justifiably be filed under some subsection of punk.
If you're one of these dudes who wants to be a genre warrior about punk of all things well, god bless you.
Anything Kurupt ever tried to do has been done at least slightly better by someone else.
> who 9
Goes to show... Dude's no less than a legend.
dont remind me that 2009 was 7 years ago ever again
I'm not a 'genre warrior' simply because I don't care too much about how you wanna classify a certain group or artist, but anyways, my opinion is that punk as a musical genre and punk as a work ethic are two different things. If it's the latter definition you go by, than yeah you're right.
those keys on cream tho...
if you take it in purely musical terms they have a helluva lot more in common with noisy experimental hardcore punk shit than with hip hop. maybe you don't think hardcore is punk either though?
furthermore, they have basically nothing in common with either the musical aesthetic OR work ethic of hip hop. chaotic, aggressive beats instead of repetitive grooves. Does that sound more punk or hip hop to you?
Just wanted to add Lord Finesse, Channel Live, Godfather Don, Heltah Skeltah and Smif n Wessun.
I only know kurupt because my dispensary is always plugging this when i check the menu
youtube.com
>he thinks that's what I'm implying
Given how the instrumentation and structure is completely different than in most punk, i'd say they have the most in common with industrial/noise music, and you can call that punk, I just think the term loses it's meaning when you stretch it this far... But hip hop is way broader than just repetitive grooves: a lot of DG's material is sample based, percussion driven, looped music with rapped vocals (or at least rap-like vocals) - it's obviously experimental hip hop, but all the essential elements are there it seems.
To really get the grasp of Illmatic . Listen to the Infamous from Mobb Deep released a year later. You can literally hear the metamorphosis of Queensbridge projects and it's lauded as just as good as Illmatic in some camps.
I disagree. Listen to Guru and Primo from before Illmatic.
Just listening to NY projects pre- and post- Illmatic will give a good understanding of why it's a landmark, if not THE landmark album in hip-hop.
Illmatic changed the game. Nas was the Rakim of the 90s
And Gangstarr isn't really the point with my assertion. I'm talking about after not before.