Why is rock dead?

Why is rock dead?

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there is not enough American conflict. We need strife in this country to influence great music. World War III needs to come soon.

It refused to expand and sucked the dick of the classics too much

Dude or possibly lady on the far left looks just like Mike Mills.

It ran its course. New genres broke out from it.

because rock musicians care more about romanticising the past and emulating more than creating something new

Ran out of new ideas in the... 70s, maybe? Just took a couple more decades to realise.

>implying the soundtrack for WWIII isn't gonna be made by Taylor Swift

well, either it's not dead, and it lives on in lots of metal and post-rock acts

-or-

it died because purists constrained the definition of rock music to very specific dimensions that became cliches

True rock never dies \﹏/

>lives on in lots of metal and post-rock acts

lmao

yes

it's all alex g derivatives now

welcome to your new world

Because no one just plays straight up rock anymore. Everyone plays post indie core metal punk with banjos.

like I don't know how you can say that like, Pallbearer, Boris, Sunn O))), Swans, Russian Circles, the 1975 etc. are making music in a dead genre

if you're saying their respective genres don't fall under the collective umbrella of "rock," then okay; rock died because we gave it a very specific definition whose creative potential was used up in 40 years or so

>like I don't know how you can say that like

are these people for real?

Post grunge and indie rock killed it

This. It suffered from terminal le wrong generation and couldn't stop being rockist ironically. Show me one popular rock band that utilized electronics.

Simply put, everything that could be done was done already.

Hip Hop will someday face the same fate.

The Cars, Rush, The Police, Devo,... what are you talking about exactly?

Reddit

Hip hop was a finished project fifteen years ago. We have another fifteen to go before people realize that.

yeah I use idiomatic fillerwords to tone-down my posts when I think I'm in danger of coming off as self-important

Rock died when punk died.

I wouldn't say that, I mean there have been some cool hip hop acts to come out this decade, but they're usually the ones that sttay away from traditional "rhyme over 4/4 beats" type stuff

A whole lot of them actually

Rock shouldn't be le synth+ guitar genre anyways, people who think that synths are the future and the best way to make music are idiots

I meant newer rock bands.

Too many fucking meaningless subgenres.

Oh I see, you're just stupid.

this and also shitty indie trends

to be a critically acknowledged rock band nowadays you have to be influenced by one or more of the following

>post-punk, krautrock, noise, drone, shoegaze, the Beach Boys, noise, ambient, noise, psychedelic rock, folk rock

And no bands really have a cohesive vision of what they want to communicate. To be great, a band has to be ABOUT something.

Most 4^4 stuff is mainstrean garbage anyways

this. Indie was a mistake

Honestly I think it's cause no one can play guitar anymore, every big 'rock' band these days has these half-assed talentless solos that sound like warmups from beginner-intermediate technique books

>rock is dead because nobody plays muh twiddle-dee blues scale solos anymore
tbqh fuck bloated guitar solos

Even if it doesn't take extreme technical skill to play if it can express the emotion well, it's a good solo

quads confirms

>implying guys like Who and Zeppelin didn't just reuse the same goddamn pentatonic scales

I don't think this is what that guy meant.

Rock music needs to more openly embrace electronic music for anything super interesting to happen to it.

And that does NOT mean muh synths. Writing riffs/melodies with synths is at the end of the day no different from doing so with a guitar.

If rock music truly understands the ability of manipulating sound, timbre, dynamics, etc. of electronic music it can truly move forward. But it seems to have no interest to do this. At all. The closest rock music ever truly had to this was when Faust were messing around with electronically generated timbres on Faust I, and that's fucking pathetic.

Rock isn't dead mates and it really won't die anytime soon because nothing can really take it's place in the kind of emotions and attitudes it portrays. Honestly, I think the problem with it now is that people are trying to make everything too complex for the sake of it and forgetting the actual songwriting. All the most famous rock/metal songs that define the genre are pretty simple but very memorable and well written. People just need to go back to that mindset to push it back into the mainstream again

>what has post grunge been trying to do for the past decade and failing at?

Nope.

The race to make the most unique electronic sound never goes anywhere, we end up with abominations like IDM from people who think that "sound" is all that music is.

Structure is gone from experimental music. We need more experiments in rhythm and pop structures rather than seeing who can make the most novel sound. A sound is worth nothing without it's context.

The most interesting "musical revolutions" actually arise from stupidly simple ideas that no one has tried before. (the choppy sound of reggae, the simplistic heavy backbeat of rock, the idea of drums+poetry in hip hop)

uhh, not an argument?

Not exactly dead, just lost. Indie rock becoming the next big thing for rock after all the edgelord angsty teenage crap forced the style into a corner restrained by passiveness, egotism, and indie along with every rock style refuses to evolve because the indie fags wanna be like The Smiths, emos wanna be like American football, punks wanna be like a bizarre mix of Green Day and The Sex Pistols while being pro-establishment, Goths want to be like JD and The Cure, and people who make general rock imitate rockers from the 60s and 70s. Everyone has either become too limp wristed and pretentious or too nostalgic.

Yeah of course fucking post-grunge would fail at it

Too white.

>we end up with abominations like IDM from people who think that "sound" is all that music is.
Nigga what? You just sound like you ignorantly hate a genre of music.

>We need more experiments in rhythm and pop structures
Part of what I am saying about using electronics is doing exactly that though. Exploring rhythms that aren't very often explored, manipulated in ways that go beyond what a rock drummer can do. Every time rock music tries to do it on its own to change it up, it usually sounds like some dumb boring pretentious pesudo-jazz weak drumming.

Retarded opinion

Blacks have run hip-hop to the ground, most innovations in rock couldn't have happened without it's whiteness

>Part of what I am saying about using electronics is doing exactly that though. Exploring rhythms that aren't very often explored, manipulated in ways that go beyond what a rock drummer can do. Every time rock music tries to do it on its own to change it up, it usually sounds like some dumb boring pretentious pesudo-jazz weak drumming.
Nah

I never liked the "complex rhythms" in electronic music, it always feels forced and wanky. Music doesn't become more interesting because it's in a weird time signature or the drums are fast. And complexity doesn't make music any better.

Music is actually the part of pop music that matters least. Music should be in service to the songs and not work against it. Rock bands nowadays have a really hard time writing a good, essential, well-constructed SONG. Classical exists for those who want music for music. Pop has always been about something more than that.

We need simple idea no one has tried before, those are the ones that make the most waves, and the aesthetics should go with what you want to express, what your band is about. The Velvet Underground used noise to underscore their tales of drugs and sex, but they didn't focus entirely on the noise, they still wrote excellent songs. I always liked the idea of viewing pop and rock more as poetry than music.

youtube.com/watch?v=YyieM6ygKGg

>The race to make the most unique electronic sound

So let them go overboard with it and be shitty while actually talented people do something with it. The whole rock music = NO ELECTRONICS ALLOWED neo garage rock meme needs to go.

>we end up with abominations like IDM

Uh IDM is great?

>Structure is gone from experimental music.

Experimental isn't a genre so I don't get how you could lump everything of the avant-garde variety into one kind of music and say none of it has structure nowadays.

This. Rock mid seventies is unrecognizable from twenty years previously. Think about the technical leaps from 'That's alright mama' to something like Low or WYWH
But there has been almost no innovation for nearly forty years.
Guitar, drums, bass, vocals, piano, playing I IV V vi is a very limited palette, and was basically exhausted quite quickly.

Almost no rock writer has the harmonic or melodic sophistication to move forward, and the ones that do, like Joni Mitchell, stop playing rock and move into jazz or something else that can support their ambition.

>I never liked the "complex rhythms" in electronic music, it always feels forced and wanky.
Never claimed that either. In fact I literally accused rock drumming to doing that since it's the only way it can change it up. I am not saying the drumming has to be breakcore stuff. Have you not noticed how all recent advancements in pop rhythm have come from electronic music? Trap, dubstep, hip hop, house, going way back to dub. It's less about technicality and going beyond the drumset.

>Pop has always been about something more than that.
This just sounds pretentious. If anything, it's a lot less since its always about being stuck in a song format. Song/album shit's getting old now, too anyway.

>We need simple idea no one has tried before, those are the ones that make the most waves
If you care about just radio trends, sure. That in of itself is an outdated as fuck way to think about music.

> I always liked the idea of viewing pop and rock more as poetry than music.
Then go listen to folk and nothing else.

>Why is rock dead?
>yes
really makes you think

Why is big band dead?
Why is crooner music dead?

Its 2016, not 1986, live in the now

>Never claimed that either. In fact I literally accused rock drumming to doing that since it's the only way it can change it up. I am not saying the drumming has to be breakcore stuff. Have you not noticed how all recent advancements in pop rhythm have come from electronic music? Trap, dubstep, hip hop, house, going way back to dub. It's less about technicality and going beyond the drumset.
I do agree with you about trap.
>This just sounds pretentious. If anything, it's a lot less since its always about being stuck in a song format. Song/album shit's getting old now, too anyway.
Songs are important, and a very effective way to express emotions and ideas, which is what at least I want music and art in general to do for me.
>If you care about just radio trends, sure. That in of itself is an outdated as fuck way to think about music.
No it isn't
>Then go listen to folk and nothing else.
Done

Well, jazz as a whole is still alive. It chose to evolve. Rock music seems to have not.

Crooners still exist too but then who gives a fuck.

But there's new rock bands playing literally every night of the week

>jazz evolved
Not since the mid-70s

>Rock music seems to have not.
What about math rock? What about noise pop? what about art punk? etc

>evolved
>new/recent

Its 2016, hello?

This
I don't really know that americas next great struggle will be narrated by rock music. I think rocks time has passed and it really doesn't hold the influence over society the same way it used to, compared to how rap is now.

>tfw wwIII soundtrack will be by kendrick and bieber

>math rock
90s
>noise pop
90s
>art punk
a genre that dates back to 1977, lolno
Plus all modern art punk bands just copy arty punk bands from the 70s/80s with a more kitschy aesthetic and worse songs

This must be b8

Or bleeps in Europe.

HP Baxxter will rule the world.

Kendrick and Bieber are emblems of the old order

The new shift to extreme conservatism will be narrated by rock. Rock has always had a fascist undercurrent.

>Songs are important, and a very effective way to express emotions and ideas, which is what at least I want music and art in general to do for me.
They are also a format continually getting more and more outdated. Not necessarily even effective for straight up showing emotion either; just something people are used to. Everything's too set and predictable in a predictable song format. Videos have everything from six second Vines to 2 hour long movies to marathonable shows. Music in all its formats needs to get more versatile, too.

>No it isn't
When's the last time you actually listened to the radio? What about guys that have nowadays gotten to the radio for many plays due to internet presence like Psy or Twenty One Pilots?

>muh American rebellion
It never was a thing, lol.

Yes, and all those genres are alive right now.
See above but
>Plus all modern art punk bands just copy...
Not relevant. if they are around, it's alive.

What are these millennial's obsessions with things being new/innovative/evolving? Doesn't need to.

>Yes, and all those genres are alive right now.

are you mad or just dumb

Because it's not what music journos report on anymore.

Never mind all of the rock music in bars and clubs across the country, listen to what the latest memerapper has to say.

>If I don't care about it, it's dead
Nah

How does one become this fucking delusional?

Rock today is like Frank Sinatra/Dean Martin etc were to the 60s kids, its over, move on

Government consolidation and the rapid expanse of technology has killed the "soul" of western society. Good Rock will always have a cord tied to blues, even if it's so abstract and subtle and not at face value. And without soul, you have no blues. Without passion, without hunger, anger, love. Our society is now formed by self-destructive apathetic hedonists, this is not the mentality of rock n roll.

Electronic music is the future, because it's the only genre of music that currently fits the cold, abstract, and advanced state of our technological society.

Nu Jazz continues to mess with various combos of electronic and jazz.

Vijay Iyer's playing on his newest album that came out this year's confounding quite a few jazzists out there.

>They are also a format continually getting more and more outdated. Not necessarily even effective for straight up showing emotion either; just something people are used to. Everything's too set and predictable in a predictable song format. Videos have everything from six second Vines to 2 hour long movies to marathonable shows. Music in all its formats needs to get more versatile, too.
That makes no sense. Predictability will not ensure a "shift from song format", you're talking like a buisinessman fixated on discovering the next big trend without understanding that the current standard is a standard for a reason. Nobody wants to listen to long 2-hour music jams. Constructing a great song is hard, an exercise in concision, and putting together the same old elements in different ways is more interesting than throwing it all away.
>When's the last time you actually listened to the radio? What about guys that have nowadays gotten to the radio for many plays due to internet presence like Psy or Twenty One Pilots?
How do simple musical ideas factor into this?

Most nu jazz is electronic foremost though

>if they are around, it's alive.
wew
>What are these millennial's obsessions with things being new/innovative/evolving? Doesn't need to.
Yeah dude I can't believe this trend of novelty that was just invented in the 2000s, there sure weren't movements like psychedelic rock and punk rock based in being new and rebellious

Nu jazz isn't jazz

this

This sounds plausible

I mean, this is why electronic music was so big in the postwar German krautrock scene.

>cold, abstract, and advanced
are all terms that describe German society

>wew
Nice argument.
>there sure weren't movements like psychedelic rock and punk rock based in being new and rebellious
Not really. Punk rock really has it's roots in 50s and even 60s music, and Psychedelic owes a lot to traditional ragas which have existed for thousands of years. They weren't "new" or "rebellious" at all.

>music is still music, therefore it's not new and rebellious

But there is lots of electronic music thats not cold, its just most techno

>all of this pontificating.

>That makes no sense. Predictability will not ensure a "shift from song format"
I never said it will ensure, I am not even pulling for multi hour jam sessions. In fact if anything I am pulling for shorter tracks that don't have to be in the 3-6 minute average.

>How do simple musical ideas factor into this?
I was thinking more about the making waves thing, how there's multiple ways to go towards it, and really how super simple ideas seem to really not last long.

Strawman

>muh purity

Nu jazz ranges from combining live instrumentation with beats of jazz house, exemplified by St Germain, Jazzanova and Fila Brazillia, to more band-based improvised jazz with electronic elements, such as that of The Cinematic Orchestra, Kobol, and the "future jazz" style pioneered by Bugge Wesseltoft, Jaga Jazzist, Nils Petter Molvær, and others.

>cold, abstract, and advanced state of our technological society.
Nah, what a goddamn nonsense. This was more true in the 60's, with their cyclopean industrial expansion and optimism. But then in the 70's happened a disastrous oil crisis and devastating recession. The current society is neither advanced nor cold, it's infantile and capricious, in other words it just fucking sucks and it's the new 70's, so, speaking of music, you'll have your own sex pistols, it's not me making guesses, it's inevitable.

By this logic, electronic music is also dead since it was new and groundbreaking in the 60s.

I think you need to examine your priorities

Its still constantly evolving and changing though. Jungle, 2-step and outside house didn't exist in the 60s, 70s, or 80s

>I never said it will ensure, I am not even pulling for multi hour jam sessions. In fact if anything I am pulling for shorter tracks that don't have to be in the 3-6 minute average.
Why?
>I was thinking more about the making waves thing, how there's multiple ways to go towards it, and really how super simple ideas seem to really not last long.
nah

>Jungle,
90s
>2-step
90s
>outside house
80s

Nice try though

Do you think posting names of logical fallacies means anything

Do you think misrepresenting my argument will make you right?

>>outside house
>80s
nope

And notice how I didn't say 90s retard.

Grime, outsider house, trap and industrial techno then, I could go on but its true and you can't deny it, what was the last new rock style and when?

White people are lame. Nobody cares about you jumping on a table acting like a spaz anymore so now they're off playing indie trash for women.

>And notice how I didn't say 90s retard.
Thus math rock and noise pop make rock "alive" since they had origins in the 90s

>implying blacks' cliche thug posturing is any better
If anything white music will make a resurgence due to the dominance of black music nowadays