When I was a teen I found it really stupid that in history, half of the population was eliminated...

When I was a teen I found it really stupid that in history, half of the population was eliminated, and the systems where a man's life worth more than an another were completely illogical. There should have been an equality for all since the birth. How could people accept such conditions even? The answer got clearer as years have passed. People were okay with being slaves and stupid serfs, women were okay with being the lesser gender.

Equality was never meant to exist, equality didn't do any justice to the better ones. As a result society is decading. The humankind reached its peak in 20th century, and it will not recover unless we reverse it.

So we need to kill each other and live in cold ass castles with no Sup Forums?
Fine

I said it was in its peak in 20th century, not 12th century.

some people (normies) dont value freedom

Then what do you propose as an alternative for society? We can't all be lazy NEET shut-ins.
>inb4 socialism

socialism

Neo-socialism or right wing death squads.

Wouldn't you be forced to work under it?

What happened to people in the Soviet Union who didn't work? I don't remember...

Why did you stop asking why when you reached the conclusion you were happy with? Did you ever consider WHY people were "happy" with the status quo? Do you not find it odd that cries for liberty seem to correlate with wealth? Why is that? Could it be, and this is going to sound crazy but bare with me, that when people's basic needs are met they move on to other, previously less prioritized, issues?

>People were okay with being slaves and stupid serfs, women were okay with being the lesser gender.

No

they were sent to prison

actually it was a joke
socialism without freedom is prison
there's no simple answer

It is just absurd to work in this order. We living in medieval times without being aware of it. While we are making ourselves busy in our little circles, people are making money, without literally doing anything due to their bloodline. Even with the jobs that pay the highest salaries, you can't get rich. If you are from a working-class family, you have 0 chances, until you finish your education, and work for some years to make money enough to make an investment, and hope for it to be successful. And yes you can succeed by taking risks, by literally risking your whole future into a debt maybe to a death, if you are lucky and a part of %0.01, you can become one of those people from higher class, except for the fact that you missed the same opportunities for years, the same level of education, the same amount of environment and strong bonds. In your smallest mistake, your head will be on a spike again.

>buhu not everyone (and by everyone I specifically mean myself) can be super rich
stfu you whiny bitch, literally 90% of the world is worse off than you are

Those groups I described made like %95 of the society, and they were "liberated" by some idealist guys from the other %5 percent. With their own will, slaves would never have a revolution, women would never have suffrage, and faggots would never have chance to get married. There is a value difference between things that are given and taken. And so rarely things were taken by people.

The women's revolution was launched by women though. If you're born with chains, living with chains won't be so bad. There were many slave revolts and colonial uprisings but I guess since you're from Finland you wouldn't know that.

>While we are making ourselves busy in our little circles, people are making money, without literally doing anything due to their bloodline

So???

Stop comparing yourself to others.

The percent of people who inherited millions/billions are very very very few. Concerning yourself with "how unfair life is" is retarded. Focus on yourself.


>Even with the jobs that pay the highest salaries, you can't get rich. If you are from a working-class family, you have 0 chances, until you finish your education, and work for some years to make money enough to make an investment, and hope for it to be successful

Why do you need to be RICH?

You can be happy as a "wageslave". You don't need millions of dollars.

Wtf are you even trying to say? That life is unfair?

Wow big relevation, 14 year old columbo. Life is unfair .Get used to it. Commit suicide or deal with it.

anarchy

Is anarchy even possible?

Wouldn't the strongest gang become the de-facto "government" in a given amount of time?

Seems like a pretty bad idea

Industrial revolution was a big fat mistake and organized modern society is making us miserable. We should go back to living and dying in caves with our extended families, modern technology is great but it simply isn't worth it.

I was born to a worker class family in a third world country, and I took an education while being surrounded by plebians. The highest expectation from my family and my environment was becoming an engineer or a doctor. (Actually getting any kind of degree was seen as a high success.)

The whole point of this thread is questioning how humankind is full of so many obedient slaves, and pointing out the fact that the changes were never made by lesser groups. And your destinies are literally in the hands of another rich man to change the rules of the game(Trump, Trudeau, and many others.)

wrong pic

>The whole point of this thread is questioning how humankind is full of so many obedient slaves,

How are they slaves?

People do what makes them happy. If your question is "why do people wageslave", then it's simple. People like what wageslaving gives them.

People like buying new clothes, new smartphones, new computers, videogames, watching movies, eating popcorn, enjoying their lives. That's why they exchange their labor for money.

>and pointing out the fact that the changes were never made by lesser groups

So what am i suppose to do? Go and kill someone and go to prison?

Become a criminal? and spend my life in prison getting fucked in the ass by BBC then unable to find a job ever again due to a criminal record?

>And your destinies are literally in the hands of another rich man to change the rules of the game(Trump, Trudeau, and many others.)

Your destiny is in your own hands.

You make your destiny, trump or trudeau or the Rothschilds or the Reptilians don't control you.

I really don't understand you.

People wageslave becuase it fulfills what they want. If you work 40 hours a week and make $80k a year. You live comfortably. End of story. Marginal returns - $800k/yr doesn't make you live 10x better than 80k. So it doesn't matter. When I read about a richfag I don't get jealous or mad about it. I'm happy for other people.

You need to shift your mindset to that of abundance rather than scarcity. There's infinite wealth in the world, and infinite happiness. We can all be happy and rich.

nice

no, because it requires mutual morality and intelligence ideally, and anarchy can only happen when the situation fits no less than the ideal criteria.

What an edgy post. There is no problem in inequality if everyone lives well. Look at the first world for example. You have inequality but even your wageslaves have it better than us who live in the condition of and exist as subhumans. As long as two things exist there will be inequality. Unless you take the Taoist approach of everything being one single harmonic existence then no such a thing as equality is possible outside the realm of mathematics. I could go on and on but at this point it should have become clear that your superfluous and childish notions of ideals are not achievable even if you disconsider other countless factors.

>Look at the first world for example. You have inequality but even your wageslaves have it better than us who live in the condition of and exist as subhumans

THIS.

Wealth inequality doesn't matter. People become disproportionately rich because they create wealth and elevate society as a whole. It isn't a zero-sum game.

>elevate society as a whole.
how flower shops evelate society as a whole?

People who get rich elevate society.

In order to become a millionaire you needed to have provided value to people, aside from crime of course.

What if you commit a crime in order to provide a value to people?

I guess it would depend what kind of crime it is.

If you're just selling drugs or breaking government regulations then I guess it's fine but if you're stealing from people it isn't and is indeed a zero-sum game in that case.

The world is not fair nor truly equal but I don't think it's unreasonable to establish some base level of equal rights and equality of opportunity.

Obviously you can't make every facet of life equal nor should you. You also don't want equality of outcome.

It's really about grounding your expectations in reality.

>l but I don't think it's unreasonable to establish some base level of equal rights and equality of opportunity

>some base level of equal rights and equality of opportunity

Equal opportunity exists. Equal outcomes do not.

You literally have no fucking idea what you are taking about. Life expectancy in medieval Europe was 40. Today it has doubled. In medieval Europe there was no Internet, free speech so you wouldnt even be able to speak up your stupid shit like that. I could go on. Suffrage, democracy, education, higher life standards. Also, in regards to your remark to working the whole time that's simply not true. 48 weekly hours in a week that has 168 hours. Thats less than a third of a time and that's if you're on the legal limit of working hours. On top of that there is the right to strike, vacation, paid leaves, etc. Do you think there was any of that 200 years ago? And for the whole le evil rich lazy people think, that is also a misconception. Bill Gates started out in a garage. Within just two generations the Trump family went from lower middle class to pluteaucrat and a part of US history. Steve Jobs, Toyota, Napoleon, Jesus. History is so full of ordinary people who changed everything. You can start rereading history books because you don't seem to have a damn clue of reality.

>People were okay with being slaves and stupid serfs, women were okay with being the lesser gender.

Not really. Why do you think we are no longer the same? People fought back, people have always fought back. It only takes a long time to really improve.

the problem with capitalism is what 99% never become rich nor capitalists

once a guy XYZ built all flower shops you can't build your own = you're loser

>With their own will, slaves would never have a revolution, women would never have suffrage, and faggots would never have chance to get married.
Except for the fact, that, you know, they did.

>the problem with capitalism is what 99% never become rich nor capitalists

Why should 99% of people become rich?

Do 99% of people create important things?

People aren't equal.

>once a guy XYZ built all flower shops you can't build your own = you're loser

Innovate. Find out what people want, find out how to get it to them quicker, easier, more efficiently. And you become rich.

>BUT ALL x IS DONE ALREADY!

So make up something new. When ANYTHING was invented people said "But x is done already! you can't do anything new!".

>Innovate
everybody_needs_my_shit.png

no, you can't trick me, a leaf

Which is exactly what I'm in favor of. Equality of opportunity is prevalent in Western societies though there are cases where opportunity is hindered in some way or denied to people which should not happen. It's not a systemic issue though.

Outcome should never be equal. This is why, not to start a firestorm, I'm pro-racial equality but not in favor of quotas for universities and jobs. I don't think anyone should be denied a job based on race but at the same time I shouldn't be rejected from a job/school in favor of someone of a different race that performed worse than me for the sheer purpose of balancing the ratio of races in a job/school population.

>This is why, not to start a firestorm, I'm pro-racial equality but not in favor of quotas for universities and jobs

I don't think anyone at all is against that.

No one wants to "hang all the niggers", they just want blacks to be held to the same standard as other races.

>Do 99% of people create important things?
actually, yes, the working class creates everything you have

>People aren't equal.
inequality is artificially introduced and sustained to perpetuate the rule of a minority of parasites that keep all the wealth created by the 99%, to themselves

>Innovate and you become rich
This is the liberal myth, it shows you zukerberg or bill gates and tell you it's the paradigm when it's really the exception, the media focuses on these exception to make the point that the system works and "in the land of the free everyone can make it ! " when in reality riches are mostly inherited (that's why the first thing commies do when they get into power is to prohibit transference of wealth by inheritance)

>Equality of opportunity is prevalent

>be born rich
>go to harvard

>be born poor
>stuck with minimum wage job for the rest of your life

yeah, it's not a systemic thing... of course not..

>actually, yes, the working class creates everything you have

oh wow they flip burgers and clean toilets

I guess they're really valuable

>when in reality riches are mostly inherited

[CITATION NEEDED]

>inequality is artificially introduced and sustained to perpetuate the rule of a minority of parasites that keep all the wealth created by the 99%, to themselves

How can inequality be artificial if people are all different in their skills, intelligence and creativity?

>>be born poor
>>stuck with minimum wage job for the rest of your life

That doesn't happen.

You can take out loans, get grants, scholarships, etc to go to University. If you major in something non-retarded and work hard you graduate and make good money. Being stuck with minimum wage forever is a choice.

Universities like harvard LITERALLY have spots reserved for poorfags.

>commit a crime
the very definition of crime is created by the ruling classes in order to protect their interests, that's why "stealing is bad", all labor produces some form of value whether it's legal (socially legitimized) or not

>the very definition of crime is created by the ruling classes in order to protect their interests, that's why "stealing is bad"

are you just trolling now

>Laws iz made up by rich people to keep uz poor

The reason stealing is bad is because we as a society decided that maybe people breaking into your fucking house with a gun and robbing you blind isn't a good idea for our society, AND MAYBE people who do this should go to prison and be kept away from society.

>oh wow they flip burgers and clean toilets
and make the computer you use to vomit your ignorant ramblings all over us

>[CITATION NEEDED]
if wealth wasn't primarily determined by the prior pertenence to a social class, then we wouldn't have poverty, wouldn't we?

>people are all different in their skills, intelligence and creativity
the environment people are raised in determines this, if your mom buys crack instead of books then what do you expect ?

>Being stuck with minimum wage forever is a choice
yeah, I guess people just FREELY DECIDE to be poor and miserable

>we as a society decided
who decided? you? me? no, the people who have ACTUAL wealth to protect, not a shitty house

Angry, leftist and latino.

Heidegger, plz

post bunda

>and make the computer you use to vomit your ignorant ramblings all over us

Actually people don't really make computer parts by hand. Mass produced in some Chinese factory.

>if wealth wasn't primarily determined by the prior pertenence to a social class, then we wouldn't have poverty, wouldn't we?

We have poverty because people are dumbasses who don't know how to use the tools available to them.

Have you ever actually spoken to one of these "people in poverty"? They're fucking idiots. They do nothing to improve their lives and just live self-destructive lifestyles.

>yeah, I guess people just FREELY DECIDE to be poor and miserable

They do. With their choices.

Okay I can understand the 3rd world, but in First world countries there's no excuse.

You brought up the rich kid going to harvard. I corrected you and offered some options poor people have. You ignored it.

>who decided? you? me? no, the people who have ACTUAL wealth to protect, not a shitty house

That's all the same. People have a right to protect their property, doesn't matter if it's $100 or $1,000,000,000.

Only if you can name a single society that has ever existed that considered robbery to be acceptable. Bonus points if that society lasted for more than a decade.

W-what?

You mean a society where people can just smash a brick into your elderly grandmother's head and take her possessions doesn't work very well?

No. He told you robbery was illegal because the rich man wants to keep the poor man down and that was my response. Reread the post and the one quoted. But then again I am a monkey and thereof you should not expect any level of proficiency in reading comprehension.

He's just poor and doesn't understand why

it be the rich man keepin uz down. Maybe at the next communist meeting they'll teach how to run a business

Really prodded me to ponder.

>Actually people don't really make computer parts by hand. Mass produced in some Chinese factory.
all commodities are created by human labor, technology only enables to reduce how much labor you need to produce a given commodity

>people are dumbasses who don't know how to use the tools available to them.
these tools are simply not made avaiable to billions of people living in povery, and when they are (i.e. middle class), it's only a minority that ever access them because there's always need for someone to clean toilets etc.

>They do nothing to improve their lives
People are taught to do that

>the rich kid going to harvard
a couple of scholarships change nothing

>doesn't matter if it's $100 or $1,000,000,000.
kek
yeah I guess a couple hundred workers self financing their own political party is the same as the one that is backed by millions of dollars by all major corporations and supported by the media

what constitutes private property is defined by the possibilities any given society has to guarantee its own reproduction, the problem arises when an excess in productivity is created out of technological innovations and it is appropriated by a minority, which creates class society, but the earliest forms of human organization, since they didn't have any excess production and barely survived, didn't even have a notion of private property, therefore you couldn't steal because the food wasn't yours, it was everyone's

I said %0.01 you described me %0.0000001. Also Jesus is a fictional chracter, and Napoleon was a noble by birth.

>these tools are simply not made avaiable to billions of people living in povery

They are, though.

At least in the 1st world (keep in mind i'm only talking 1st world here, not Cambodia or Nigeria - that's a whole different beast).

>a couple of scholarships change nothing

How? It literally makes you go from poor - to upper middleclass. There's never been more social mobility.

Keep in mind, as short as 200 years ago, if you were born poor you would die IN THAT SAME TOWN poor. Now in the 21st century you can immigrate, easily elevate your standing, use the internet and international trade to connect with the world...

>>They do nothing to improve their lives
>People are taught to do that

No they're really, really stupid.

I've talked to a lot of poor people.

Asked them questions like what they spend money on, how they live their daily lives, what kind of goals they have. They're just disgusting animals and it's no surprise they're poor.

>but the earliest forms of human organization, since they didn't have any excess production and barely survived, didn't even have a notion of private property, therefore you couldn't steal because the food wasn't yours, it was everyone's

Hmmm almost as if times change and socieites get created because we figure out better ways of doing things.

>didn't even have a notion of private property, therefore you couldn't steal because the food wasn't yours, it was everyone's

And this is good? If i'm stronger than you I can just come and take your things and if you can't defend yourself that's it?

>They are, though.
No, you're taking a minority of priviledged middle class people and extrapolating their situation to the larger mass of poor people that don't have but MTV telling them to enjoy and live above hteir possibilities

>It literally makes you go from poor - to upper middleclass.
for a very small percentage of carefully selected people, what about the rest of them?

>they're really, really stupid.
People are made to be stupid

>the internet and international trade to connect with the world...
Lucky for us, then, since we were born with computers and intuitively learned how to use them, but it's not like that for everyone.

>If i'm stronger than you I can just come and take your things
Like I said, you can only do that if there' an excess lying around. If there isn't, then attempting to do so would end up jeopardizing your own possibilities of even living instead of giving you a better living. And that there is appropriation of surplus value by minorities is only a good thing for those robbing the rest of their labor by force.

In the end, it all comes down to the fact that we now have the technological means to create a post scarcity utopia in which labor and money are abolished, but a minority of capitalist parasites hold back that possibility because they want to retain the benefits that social difference provides them.

I wish we could gas certain individuals in society, myself included. A lot of people suffer and the system is rigid and horrible.

Rarely there was a time without some things to balance inequalities between men and women. Trading power for protection and safety, home work for dangerous work etc.

Not equal but not as lopsided as it's usually portrayed.

>implying most of us aren´t still serfs
Can´t even buy a firearm in most parts of Europe (including Finland) without a "license", i.e. without consent from the governing powers.