It has been over two decades since the anti-marxist, anti-communist...

It has been over two decades since the anti-marxist, anti-communist, center of imperialism called the "soviet" union has collapsed.
Communism will reassert itself as the only solution to the crisis of humanity once again.

Capitalism entered its decadent phase over a century ago, it can now only survive with increasing attacks upon the working class


The working class again has no country, it must unite internationally to overthrow the state and capital and abolish itself, reintegrating labor and the rest of life.

Workers have nothing to lose but their chains!

Other urls found in this thread:

psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201105/how-hunter-gatherers-maintained-their-egalitarian-ways
libcom.org/history/hunter-gatherers-mythology-market-john-gowdy
youtube.com/watch?v=Ta_-iXuyzlc
youtube.com/watch?v=-qn4W_5v1zQ
wfp.org/hunger/stats
youtube.com/watch?v=yA2lCBJu2Gg
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

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stfu and stop baiting OP for once pls

god damn

its proof not bait

Kill yourself nigger

facts are too scary for the lil' liberal?

Debate me

Communism is associated with a plethora of human rights issues. Also, most first world countries would experience mass uprisings against many of the less palatable tenets of communism.

tl;dr communism only works with direct oppression

i see the problem with capitalism, but i dont think the right solution would be a socialist/communist state. Tigther controll of the ruling class is helped by technology, like smartphones, the internet or paypass. If you want to free yourelf and your sisters and brothers from effective slavery, the right way (imo) is a movement rejecting the accelerating progress of technology. Go out to the woods, cut your creditcard in half, stomp your phone and live free

>human rights issues
Communism hasn't been established, the working class was defeated in 1921

>the less palatable tenets of communism
What, pray tell, to you think those are?

>socialist/communist state
that is an oxymoron, as long as the state exists it exists purely out of necessity and is in fact an obstacle to socialism.
>the rest
The growth of the productive forces is what makes it possible to escape class society. "Living free" is the opposite of rejecting all progress humanity has made.

Wtf where is the x and y you fag

How's it working out in Venezuela?

For the first part, i totally agree. But for the second part, all this progress lead humanity to overpopulate, sucking out any and all resources this earth may provide. When i hear about NASA, or scientist talking about colonizing mars id like to just rip my own head off. Technology provides a thighter controll of the population on both mental and material levels. When did humanity became the locusts of our planet?

Capitalism, responsible for 2 billion people rising out from poverty in the last 50 years.

Communism, responsible for the deaths of over 94 million in the 20th century.

Capitalism is why you're able to sit here and type this bullshit today, if you want to be a commie move to NK, you like pure socialism move to Venezuela. Either way it'll be the last we hear from your faggot ass.

cause there aren't lines where x or y = 0, you can't understand the chart?

Poverty statistics are shit, even many bourgeois economists will admit that.

$1.25 is far below what is needed to reproduce the worker, not just a little below

>overpopulate, sucking out any and all resources this earth may provide

this a result of capitalist social relations,

a planned economy wouldn't have this problem

either stick em on a hemp farm or kill em if tech can do the industrial scale farming/mining

i mean either outright or through reduced breeding numbers of wide spread specific demographics

how about reading the thread?

Thought I'd chime in. I've already debated you Marxist fucks on the Internet, I'm fairly certain you're wrong and your ideology is utter shit after I read the communist manifesto and that's only been confirmed deeper by talking to you guys. I don't want your shit ideology to run my life. It doesn't even sound nice in theory and it looks like a nightmare in practice. And you guys are in absolute denial about every single one of communisms failures always saying "communism never existed so let's try it again this time correctly" when every single transition state that tried it ended up a dystopian shit show, maybe it would occur to you that there might be a pattern there? That maybe that transition state is awful and bloody and it leads to a pretend land utopia that didn't exist in the past and won't ever exist in the future? Marx wanted to bring man back to his "natural" state of human cooperation long before civilization fully developed, he thought it would be a utopia. Thing is though, that period of human history was really awful too. We lived like animals and were poorer than the poorest people on earth today. If we're really talking about what's great for the masses of people it's capitalism, which raised the world from the standard of subsistence living of the common to a standard of what would have been royal luxury to our ancestors.

theres simply to much variance in human interaction to implement communism on a large scale let alone industrial basis

organised work camps is one thing if u wanted to bring a controlled group of niggers up to the stage but ud have to shut down the presses (print it on hemp)

Suck my cock. These statistics are shit, people died of famine and starvation from the total economic failure of communism, that doesn't happen with capitalism. And here you just took a list of death, a lot of these things aren't even related to capitalism. You have an embargo for Christ's sake, capitalism is about free markets and voluntary exchange of goods and services and someone put the deaths caused by a restriction of trade on a list about death caused by capitalism. Maybe you just don't get it? Somebody never taught you economics did they?

well i dont know man, greed seems to be a trait of a planned economy as well. You provide some answers for truely fascinating questions, tho your answers are based on a non-existing (yet anyway) utopia. I live in a post-socialist country, and however well planned, that system had its vital flaws too, most of them were based on human error/malice. Those who 'plan' the economy become more powerful then the rest, and powers like this tend to corrupt the best of men.

hahahhqahahahah
Nice autism buddy
>HUR DUR ALL OF THESE COMMUNIST TOTALITARIAN AFRICAN STATES, AND ISLAMIC TERRORIST RAN NATIONS, AND POOR PSEUDO CAPITALIST COUNTRIES ARE ALL THE FAULT OF CAPITALISM AND NOT COMMUNISM AT ALL!!

IT'S NOT LIKE STALIN EVER TRIED TO FUCK UP THOSE COUNTRIES BEFORE...

Also we don't need to mine african pits to get sand for glass you retard, neither do we need middle eastern oil, and it's not imperialism if they sell it to us.

OP I want to know what you think of Marx and his contribution to communism. Also what is the difference between socialism and communism? Your answers will help me to understand where you are coming from.

I agree with your "workers fucked in capitalism" message. It is obvious to someone who understands the monetary system (and possesses logic - SUPER rare in these times) that capitalism is a game of musical chairs.

But seriously, the powers that be who are fucking this world seven ways from Sunday are going to fuck over a new economic/political system just as hard. Was it Eric Arthur Blair who said absolute power corrupts absolutely? The forces that run this world are too powerful, especially when 90% of people are far too distracted/divided to effect real change.

The only real solution is an hero.

Excellent thread, comrade. Victory to the people's revolution!

That isn't slavery you retard, and slavery isn't a part of capitalism.

Slavery is when you own 100% of someone like when the communist government owns 100% of you.

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the USSR was a transition to capitalism

the international communist revolution was defeated by 1921

there has never been another one

>Marx wanted to bring man back to his "natural" state of human cooperation long before civilization fully developed, he thought it would be a utopia.
And, he showed dialectically how it is inevitable after a certain amount of productive development
>Thing is though, that period of human history was really awful too.
Wrong
psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201105/how-hunter-gatherers-maintained-their-egalitarian-ways

>We lived like animals and were poorer than the poorest people on earth today.
Wrong:
libcom.org/history/hunter-gatherers-mythology-market-john-gowdy
youtube.com/watch?v=Ta_-iXuyzlc

Want to keep going?

Liberals and conservatives will get BTFO once actual material facts are brought into the picture

>theres simply to much variance in human interaction to implement communism on a large
Human action is determined by material circumstances

>failure of communism
read the fucking thread dumbass

> capitalism is about free markets and voluntary exchange of goods and services
An abstraction completely divorced from reality,
You turn an actual mode of production, the actual way we relate to each other in the bourgeois period into an idealist imaginary tautology. You have no justification for abstracting away the material facts of capitalism (state, law, regulations) and what it necessarily requires (regulation, imperialism, etc.).

>economics
Kek, neoclassical economics are the most hilariously circular, detached from reality, bullshit possible.

That dude is retarded though..
CLEARLY WITH MY USELESS NEVER HAD A JOB OR POLITICAL SEAT ASS I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE PEOPLE WHO CHOICE A LEADER THAT REPRESENTS THEM ARE OPPRESSED WHEN COMPARED TO THE ONES WHO DON'T GET TO CHOOSE, OR HAVE A VOICE.

Proletarians all over the wotld unite to fight the oppression l.
Even tho you are a commie and i'm an anarchist.

>read the fucking thread dumbass
What does that mean you autistic newfag?

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Jesus christ man. What is wrong with your eyes?

There are only two types.
a Tyranny, and a system where the subjects have been deluded into thinking it's not.

>Slavery is when you own 100% of someone

That is what the picture states, you are splitting hairs.

> like when the communist government owns 100% of you.

OP this is what I meant by distracted. Poster doesn't even know what communism is.

Yeah, Communism is this wonderful ideology that's perfect in every way, and every time it's been practiced in the past wasn't "true" communism
Eat a dick you Marxist piece of shit

or the decisions you let someone else make on your behalf and their resultant responsibility of consequence(s)

Except these threads always demonstrate that the anti-communists are perpetually screaming, ignorant people who live by an irrational faith in the American mythology but lack even a basic understanding of the ideas they criticize (e.g. a communist society is classless, stateless, and self-organizing through the natural will of the people - it is not a government that owns everything and enslaves its people). Meanwhile, the socialists always seem to be well-read, intelligent, and make good arguments that are immediately ignored by their emotional, irrational conversational partners, who invariably run down the same, tired laundry list of nonsensical excuses as to why their economic privilege must remain intact until the end of time.

I agree with this. I wish I knew this person in real life.

I don't love communism and don't hate capitalism but it doesn't take rocket appliances to figure out that the world is in a bad spot (and I believe most world problems are directly or indirectly caused by the monetary system/policy).

I got this poster salty, do I win a prize?

I have not advocated communism, more like said capitalism isn't working. Also I am not OP.

>Yeah, Communism is this wonderful ideology that's perfect in every way, and every time it's been practiced in the past wasn't "true" communism

You seem to have confused our ideas about socialism with your religious faith in capitalism.

>capitalism isn't working.
Horseshit
Flawed?
Definitely
Flat out not working?
That's a bit too bold a statement
>Also I am not OP.
You're as much of a faggot as he is

>seems to be a trait of a planned economy as well
to a planned capitalist economy, sure.

> tho your answers are based on a non-existing (yet anyway) utopia
Am I the utopian for engaging in a scientific study of human development and then basing theory based on that, or is the liberal the utopian for simply wishing that president x or reform y will fundamentally change anything.

> I live in a post-socialist country, and however well planned, that system had its vital flaws too, most of them were based on human error/malice
the stalinist countries were the furthest thing from socialism

Marx discovered the historical tasks of the proletariat from a scientific perspective and paved the way for future revolutionaries to scientifically study human development from the perspective of the only progressive force, the proletariat.

Socialism and communism are the same thing. They were split by Lenin for polemical purposes and then butchered by the stalinists to attempt to justify the USSR with quotes from lenin.

I am what is called a "left communist"

>But seriously, the powers that be who are fucking this world seven ways from Sunday are going to fuck over a new economic/political system just as hard.
In communism no one has "power" over others., it is the abolition of politics and the reintegration of labor into the rest of life.

>The only real solution is an hero.
The only answer to the working classes problems is its own power. It can't give power to anyone else.

the workers can not put their faith in extraordinary people, just themselves!

The real divide is between the supposed "marxists" who advocate seizing the state and the real marxists who understand that the state is bourgeois.
youtube.com/watch?v=-qn4W_5v1zQ

99% of human history disagrees with you

>china
>capitalism
>implying a stable system of government/economic prosperity

> OP praises communism
> can't tell what communism actually is
of course you can't because it is nothing more than a vague idea that looks fun on paper

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I agree with you to a point. It is "working" in the sense that humanity is not extinct, but you must be seriously sheltered to believe that what we have is "working".

wfp.org/hunger/stats

Yet Trump makes 10 000x (250 million/year) what many people in the states make (25k/year)

And Trumps wealth is nothing compared to the people who actually run this world.

What do you consider to be all of the self proclaimed communist states that formed after 1921 to be in the case that and Revolution was defeated by that year? I at the moment only see the USSR to be a transition to capitalism because it failed, I don't know what you mean by that. What would a successful communist revolution look like since we've never had the opportunity to see one? And ultimately we are materially wealthier than our hunter gatherer ancestors and any existing hunger gatherer society today, how would you expect humanity to maintain its living standards while adopting a communal lifestyle when nothing of the sort has been successful to my knowledge?

Communism is the theoretical end-point of the Marxist conception of socialism, in which the state is no longer necessary and class distinctions have entirely disappeared. It is not the normal operation of a socialist nation, but the ultimate goal towards which a socialist society seeks to develop.

There are volumes and volumes of thought on how socialist societies might be organized, but you just haven't bothered to read any of it. And there is a good reason why socialists don't normally seek to impose a specific, detailed implementation of socialism on society - they want to see the people rule, not have a new form of rule imposed on the people from the top down. That's not really a fair criticism anyway - did John Locke and Adam Smith describe the exact operation of liberal, bourgeois society in great detail before the overthrow of feudal society? There is, perhaps, more theory about socialism today than there was about capitalism in the 18th century.

even most bourgeois media will admit that china is capitalist

capitalism =/= muh imaginary free markets
capitalism = a mode of production based on the generalization of commodity production based on the commodification of labour power and is dominated by capital (value in self-expansion)

communism is the material human community, a mode of production without property and instead with transparent intelligible social relations based on the transcendence of abstract labor (the essence of value)

Communism doesn't require extra-human amounts of empathy, etc. It is based on the alignment of people's material interests.

I can't fucking wait for you commie cock suckers to try a revolution so we can finally FINALLY cleanse your filth off the planet.

Fuck off and die you selfish greedy commie cunts.

And that's not even mentioning the future of our civilization under capitalism. Our economic system is tremendously wasteful and uses raw materials at a completely unsustainable rate. Unnecessary suffering, wasted potential, and injustice aside, we will suffer a catastrophic ecological collapse if we do not have a revolutionary transition to a democratic, socialist economic system very soon.

Only in the United States could someone believe that an opinion based on this level of ignorance could possibly have any value whatsoever.

>op is only able to spread his lies by using miracles of capitalism: a computer and the internet

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What part of this whole thread do you want me to see you little stupid commie?
It said when it owns 99% of your production, not 100% of you.
The communist government does own you faggot, they can push you into what ever job they want, and cut any option they don't want you to have because they own all the jobs!

>OP this is what I meant by distracted. Poster doesn't even know what communism is.
wew nice job samefag.

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU LITTLE AUTISTIC RUNT, YOU AREN'T EVEN LISTEN TO ME, YOU ARE JUST REPLYING WITH COPY PASTE BULLSHIT.
Also it's more like
the anti-capitlists are perpetually screaming, ignorant children who live by an irrational faith in the Marx "mythology" but lack even a basic understanding of the ideas they criticize, or believe in.

Communism isn't stateless because that is impossible, you can't remove the state, or currency, currency are just paper or metal IOUs, and as long as trade exists so does the possibility of currency.

The world will always have classes, the iron worker is bellow the soldier, and the soldier bellow the general and general bellow the leader, and other politicians, and if classes don't exist why wouldn't even just become a secretary, or something easy? Why would they ever pick a hard job if they all gave out the same?

>self-organizing through the natural will of the people
The natural will of the people is to be the best you can be, I've never seen a lion sharing 100% equally without any pack leaders. It isn't in our nature to not attempt to become superior, or what is the point of even evolving out of being a one celled protozoa.

it is not a government that owns everything and enslaves its people
Oh yeah because everyone can trust everyone else with everything without the government, no government to sort things out, just every man for himself. I love it.

Meanwhile, the socialists always seem to be un-read, moronic, ignorant, pseudo intellectuals who know jack shit.

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Oh, no. Not at all. He is only able to spread his ideas through written language, the miraculous technology developed by agrarian societies. Clearly this proves that the ancient agrarianism and its primarily gift economy is the greatest economic system of all time.

ITT: There is only a few possible solutions to the issues we commonly face therefore we must not create another system but constantly refer to older systems that have failed or are currently failing to solve our issues as a society.

Good job dummies.

not a single one of your evidential findings are any bit proven or factual

you are throwing up entire walls of literal horseshit and text to hid your weakened strawman of an excusable argument

stop hiding behind all of these veiled, falsified statements and make a real stand for communist ideals you fucking pussy

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>Russia tries communism turns into dictatorship
>China tries communism turns into dictatorship
>North Korea tries communism turns into dictatorship
>Cuba tries communism turns into dictatorship

But I'm sure it'll work this time guys!

...

this

Except that's precisely what socialism is not. See In socialism, the people as a whole control economic power. In capitalism, a few individuals can gain control over the vast majority of society's economic power, allowing them to form a ruling class that can manipulate and corrupt the political system to serve their interests. Socialism is democratic to its core, but capitalism is fundamentally authoritarian in its economic substructure. That's why capitalist societies always develop extremely corrupt political systems - even if they try to be ostensibly "democratic".

>What do you consider to be all of the self proclaimed communist states that formed after 1921 to be
A transition from feudalism to capitalism in the epoch of state capitalism.

>I at the moment only see the USSR to be a transition to capitalism because it failed, I don't know what you mean by that.
The revolution in russia was a capitalist revolution, and the Bolsheviks were aware of that, but it needed to be led by the proletariat, as the bourgeoisie was impotent. The hope was that the the revolution in Russia would kick off a revolution in the rest of the world (especially europe), which would give them the productive forces and social support to skip capitalism. It was the failure of the international revolution which led to the destruction of the proletarian state and its replacement by a monstrous, bureaucratic, bourgeois state.

>What would a successful communist revolution look like since we've never had the opportunity to see one?
a little like pic related

>how would you expect humanity to maintain its living standards while adopting a communal lifestyle when nothing of the sort has been successful to my knowledge?
It is based on the development of the productive forces provided by capitalism, but different social relations, where production is done socially and in accordance with a common plan, and distribution is done according to need.

>Communism is the theoretical end-point of the Marxist conception of socialism
Fuck off Leninist.

>guise, you're all being so stupid! SO FUCKING STUPID!
>don't you understand that THIS TIME we'll do socialism right!

Fuck off and die with your no-true-scottsman bullshit

i wont get into definitions of capitalism, or planned economy. And yes you're posting about utopia wich is allright, and no i dont belive in representary democracy. For the last part, if what we are talking about here isnt utopic, please point me to a flawlessly working industrialized proletarian community.
>im not even mad, i just dont agree with you

>HUR DUR ONLY IN THE UNITED STATES THE COUNTRY THAT HAS FUCKING RAN THE WHOLE WORLD UP INTO SPACE, THE INTERNET, CELL PHONES, MODERN WEAPONRY, MODERN MEDICINE, AND AFFORDABLE LUXURIES LIKE SOFT BEDS AND CLOTHES, AND CARS!! COULD SOMEONE BELIEVE THAT BLA BLA BLA YOU'RE IGNORANT OF MY IGNORANCE OF HISTORY, ECONOMICS, PSYCHOLOGY, AND GOVERNMENT.

I like that image, because communism has so many more choices, and such more free thinkers like....... that guy too busy working to write, or paint ,or anything else.

>claims to hate greedy corps
>wants others to work to pay for his shit
>claims to despise and be better than materialism
>spends all his time whining about how other people have more money and stuff than him

...

DEATH TO LEFTISTS

DEATH TO STATISTS

DEATH TO COMMUNISTS

DEATH TO SOCIALISTS

DEATH TO SELF-RIGHTEOUS AUTHORITARIAN SHIT RAGS BY WHATEVER NAME

only the 4th is wrong, the other three are 100% true. I have a lot of stuff and im humble about it

I don't have to use pasta because I can write and think for myself.

>the anti-capitlists are perpetually screaming, ignorant children who live by an irrational faith in the Marx "mythology"

Do you know what "anti" means?

>Communism isn't stateless because that is impossible

That doesn't follow. Your claim that something is impossible doesn't have anything to do whether this is the stated intention of communism. In particular, it proves once and for all that you understand absolutely nothing about socialism but hate it with every fiber of your being because the rich told you to. Good job, lapdog.

>I've never seen a lion sharing 100% equally without any pack leaders.

Yes, this is key to the worldview of primitive capitalists. Humans are nothing but vicious animals and can never be anything more. Then they seek to embody the proof of this statement.

>The world will always have classes, the iron worker is bellow the soldier

You envision class as a necessary state and equate a form of labor with social class. Yet the rich occupy the highest social class, and what labor can they perform? All they do is sit around and collect revenue from the capital that they own.

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OP, go brush your teeth with a pistol. Communism does not work. Period. Remember idiot, millions of people have died in the name of making things better.

>and make good arguments
Your argument is that others have bad arguments.

> run down the same, tired laundry list of nonsensical excuses as to why
communism will work last time if it "never worked" before,
If a clock doesn't work the tenth time you make it, why make it again, I mean it seems as if true communism is too hard to create, and easy to ruin, or maybe it worked correct the whole time, but it's just a shitty idea in real life.

>Communism is the theoretical end-point of the Marxist conception of socialism
>Fuck off Leninist.

I didn't say it was my conception of socialism. However, that is what "communism" actually means.

>doesn't see the hypocrisy in calling corporations greedy yet wanting others to pay for his shit
>still claims to be better than materialism but by his own admission "has a lot of stuff"

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name something that works better than capitalism

protip: you cannot

>Implying dying for the greater cause is a bad thing

No pain no gain, remember that faggot.

nice facebook meme faggot

good job with cropping it

you're probably too young to get that this picture is a movie reference, and its made by an artist,. but im sure you dont watch any movies or browse any kind of imageboard or any type of that liberal nonsense

>Your argument is that others have bad arguments.

My statement is that anti-capitalist use the same four bumper-sticker-like slogans whenever we try to have this conversation (muh human nature, not your version of socialism, looks good on paper, communism is genocide). And I don't actually care to provide my arguments over and over again until you're prepared to come to terms with actual socialist ideas. If you want to discuss socialism, you have to be willing to understand its stated definitions instead of screaming the cold-war propaganda distortions of those definitions.

how about reading the thread before sperging your fucktard ideology juices all over

Marx was a journalist
Fuck sanders

this

>not a single one of your evidential findings are any bit proven or factual
"capitalism = muh free magettss :DDDD" is so proven and factual.

But a description of how society produces and reproduces in perspective of how it has changed over history? No, that's "literal horseshit"

why what makes you assume i dont see my hypocrisy?

Nice ad hominem.

Meanwhile, Venezuela and Greece are on the brink of collapse because of their socialist policies.

Stay mad socialists.

Thank you. I'm glad there's at least one working brain out there.

>marx was a journalist
Except that he wasn't.

youtube.com/watch?v=yA2lCBJu2Gg

It is amazing how people will fight for the best interest of the rich for the nonexistent chance of becoming one of them. Capitalist society will always have income inequality. The people with all the money control the mass. We are just slaves in a rigged game.

But there is hope in technology. Eventually every thing will be automated thus collapsing the consumer/workibg class.

For the last time, it's not "ad hominem" if someone is simply mocking your shocking ignorance without intending to use that mockery to support a claim. Other than the claim that you are an idiot, that is.

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And the fact Venezuela put all there economy in oil and oil prices fell which collapsed there economy.

>the literal definition of an ad hominem

Stay mad.

Transcendance of abstract labor, the essence of value? Please. Value is completely subjective, even if conditioned by the material aspect (like fucking everything, dipshit). A bunch of retards doing something shitty might imply a lot of labour, but it sure as hell wont be valued highly...or maybe it will (example: reality shows). Also the same goes the other way around.

Stop with the idea Marxism is scientific and come back when you actually have falsifiable claims, evidence and a mathematical model that describes the relevant phenomena (and hopefully predicts shit unlike most bullshit out of your kond of thinking).