/who/ - Doctor Who General

The Masque of Mandragora edition

What does /who/ think of the season 14 premiere?
It's one of the few historicals of the Baker era.

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I hear that it's good

Reminder that the Great Intelligence started the whole Silence arc.

And Missy. Missy gave Clara the number, GI made the Doctor want to investigate her.

>mfw Clara is the key to all of this.

>the entire Moffat era was Clara Who all along

I didn't really like Mandragora, it's always been the weakest Season 14 for me. I really dig every other story. Maybe I should give it a rewatch. Might stream it tomorrow if anybody's up for that.

Reminder that Managra. Lemme know where you're at if you're reading. I think it's reasonable to say we should all be done with part 1 by now unless you started late. Reminder that that's fine, don't not read because you're late if you're interested.

/who/ sure is fucking dead tonight.

Underrated, though it kind of falls apart at the end.

Yup, we'll get a lot of these nights until something newsworthy happens. I was going to say things will pick up when we get more details/filming updates on Class but then I remembered nobody gives a fuck about some shitty upcoming spinoff.

Anybody know when Series 10 production/filming begins? I could have sworn they said they will be filming the whole thing this year.

Haven't started yet, going to start tomorrow, but I read pretty quickly so I should be able to catch up.


Pretty sure Capaldi has started filming already for a Class appearance (a Tardis was pictured on set).

Then, I believe filming for the Xmas special starts later this month (unlikely that the new companion will appear in this one).

Filming for series 10 proper starts June 13th, when Pearl Mackie's Curious Incident contract ends.

Awesome, thanks for the info.

That's June 19th actually. And they're probably gonna have a week off so she can rest a bit otherwise she's gonna be tired as fuck her first day on set.

What? No he didn't. The silence arc was started by the Time Lords in Time of the Doctor.

CONFIRMED: 'Doctor Who' Star Peter Capaldi Leaving Next Year


gr8 b8

Here's the question though: did Martha have even one good episode?

Human Nature

Yes. About half of series 3 in fact.

Doesn't really count, the original novel wasn't with her.

How so?

Was Martha ever good in any episodes?

>Doesn't really count, the original novel wasn't with her.
But they were two good episodes, and she was in them. I believe that was your request.

>How so?
Everything apart from The Shakespeare Code, the Dalek two-parter, The Lazarus Experiment and 42 is good. Yes including the finale.

I stopped watching Doctor Who after Matt Smith died because it just got so shitty and convoluted halfway through his tenure. Is this new Doctor any better?

12th Doctor doesn't have convoluted arcs if that's what you're asking.

Okay cool. I'll have to check it out I suppose

I would suggest you watch the 50th specials. Then series 8, but skip Kill the Moon and In the Forest of the Night.

Series 9 is my favorite since series 5. There are more 2 parters, which allows time for characterisation. The storylines have time to breathe and consequently seem less convoluted and easier to follow. (The only dud was Sleep No More, so skip this ep).

Capaldi's very good: carries one episode in series 9 almost entirely alone, and I couldn't imagine any other 'Doctors' achieving this. (Possibly Tom Baker?)

>tfw your life is Doctor Who and videogames

I'll never grow up will I? I'm only 18 though so maybe that'll change.

black people are called PE teachers but thats the high point. i think the best episode with the new guy had some mind melting endangered species on a doomed planet owned by some rich bitch

skipping KTM is skipping a pretty big moment in the characters development

also he said he stopped watching after Smith so he should have already seen the 50th

>implying Time Heist is Capaldi's best episode
Surely you can't be serious


Look at it this way, at least you aren't a weeb.

It's slightly less shitty and convoluted. Also the creator of the convoluted plots is stepping down after next series so maybe you could start watching again then.

>Bowie died 4 months ago
>Clara left 6 months ago


>DANNY: How stupid do you think I am?
>DOCTOR: I'm willing to put a number on it...

12 delivering the #bantz

>Why do you like 10?
>Because David Tennant lol what kind of question is that?

I want them to die.

I stopped after S8. Capaldi was good and there were a couple of decent episodes but overall it was all a bit meh.

>people unironically think Series 2 is the best because it's muh Rose and Ten's glory years



Breakfast time.


>Doctor: It's Ricky.
>Mickey: No it's Micky.
>Doctor: No, it's Ricky.
>Mickey: I think I know my own name, thanks.
>Doctor: You -think- you know your own name?How stupid are you?

9 delivering the #bantz

So I just watched the opener and it looks like this is going to be yet another season of me being disappointed in Doctor Who. It breaks my heart, but Steven Moffat’s idea of what the show should be simply does not speak to me anymore. He, as a writer, has all of time and space, the entire universe and all of history to explore and play with… and he keeps coming back to the same monsters, the same villains, the same ideas over and over again. (Oh, look: Clara is a Dalek again!) He keeps circling around the same stories until they disappear into themselves. Doctor Who is eating its own tail under Moffat’s direction.

Is no one their own person in the Doctor’s universe? Is there nothing and no one that he has not had an influence in creating? This time, it’s Davros. “Who made Davros?” Of course it’s the Doctor. Except it isn’t. If “Davros knows, Davros remembers,” then Davros remembers that the Doctor saved him from the “handmine” field and showed him mercy. Moffat wants us to think it’s the opposite, that the Doctor abandoned the child Davros and that this was the beginning of Davros’s hatred, but that cannot be. This is time travel! From Davros’s perspective, the Doctor did nothing but save him, barely even hesitated to save him. But that’s the same problem with the “one last night” that Clara and Missy have in which to find the Doctor. This is time travel! They have literally forever to find him when time travel is on the table.
It’s pointless to nitpick Moffat’s stories, because he doesn’t care about telling a cohesive story. He has his cool ideas — “handmines”! (*groan*) “the planes have stopped”! “invisible planet”! “the Doctor plays rock guitar”! — and it doesn’t matter if they have nothing to do with anything, are not woven into the fabric of the tale.

9 and 12 were kings of bantz

There is no tale, not in the traditional sense. There is only pantomime. Moffat’s Doctor Who is a pantomime of Doctor Who. Almost literally: the Doctor in sunglasses playing an electric guitar in medieval England while announcing Missy’s entrance with “It’s the wicked stepmother, everyone — *hiss*!” is exactly the sort of thing you’d see in a Christmas pantomime in England.

Why is the Doctor in hiding? (Why does he believe he is about to die?) Why is he in hiding in a place and time where he is engaging in outrageous anachronisms so that, it would seem, he can be found? It doesn’t matter. All that matters is the joke that the Doctor has taught ye olde people how to say “dude.”

How are the Daleks supposed to be scary when they’re merely panto villains for Missy to mock? Only possible answer: the Daleks are no longer meant to be scary. They are meant to be seen as cultural icons divorced from whatever narrative purpose they once served. They are no longer characters or even props in a story. They are signifiers of Doctor Who as a pop-culture phenomenon. They might as well be selling candy bars.

Doctor Who has become a meta representation of itself. The show has become its own T-shirt.

We know that Moffat’s intentions are precisely that we not question anything. He tells us as much. The Doctor drinks tea in Davros’s chair. “Where did I get the cup of tea? I’m the Doctor, just accept it.” The putative coolness of the immediate moment is all that matters, and nothing else.

But I can’t just accept it. This is not the sort of storytelling that made Doctor Who so satisfying in the past. Where is the adventure? Where is the excitement of seeing new places and meeting new people? Where is the unsmirking belief in the Doctor?

I don’t believe a word of anything that happens here. The sentimental conversation between the Doctor and Davros about compassion and sunrises and such is an embarrassing example of the worst excesses of fan fiction.

But of course, this is all a joke, too. The Doctor and Davros are only fooling each other, haha! But the truly interesting version of this same story wouldn’t have tried to fool us as well, with the sappy closeup (was Davros crying?) and the sappier musical score. We would have actually seen both of them scheming, pretending, acting with each other.
And still, all of the themes dealt with here are retreads from one of the greatest stories from the classic show, Genesis of the Daleks.

To put it in a nutshell, the show is dead and Moffat has simply turned its corpse into a lifeless puppet with strings, and he keeps molesting it over and over again.


I love it when my memes are being used.

I didn't read all of your post sorry but I didn't like the opener either, it felt like typical Moffnonsense. But the rest of the season is quite different, tonally, and it's got some genuinely good episodes.

Sarah Dollard is writing an episode about the creation of Los Angeles.

>the truly interesting version of the episode would make it too obvious that they were only tricking each other!
nice b8 pasta

Why not just link the review



>the same ideas over and over again. (Oh, look: Clara is a Dalek again!)
Stopped reading here.

Ahhh I see now...Maryann Johanson. The one that thought Heaven Sent was crap, but really liked Sleep No More.

just bring back ten save the show desu senpai

>implying the show needs saving
chinballs isn't in charge yet

>he hasn't seen the ratings for series 9

>he doesn't understand how to interpret ratings

>he doesn't understand that a loss of 1.5million viewers is bad news no matter what way you "interpret" it

>he doesn't understand that there are more things influencing viewer figures than the quality of episodes

>he doesn't understand that what's specifically influencing the viewers to stop watching doesn't matter, nothing fucking matters but the numbers, and the numbers are completely and undeniably falling

>what's specifically influencing the viewers to stop watching doesn't matter


In this case it's a cultural shift where less people care about watching live TV

The 1.5 millions drop was calculated taking into account people who didn't watch live.

a lot of stuff here but I do agree with making the Doctor the centre of everything. It makes the universe look smaller. He also made the Doctor being the biggest thing in the universe an aspect of his run, It does make sense within the universe, so I'm not calling bullshit, it just got old.

Moffat is a super fan and likes the character. this is where it comes from, Chiballs is also a fan but i hope he strays away from this.

Wow I thought the ratings stuff was memery. Can you post the graph pictures? Chibnall is shit but it is clearly time for a new showrunner. The change should breathe some life into the show.

Also that one-on-one exchange of >implyings was funny.


At this point defending s9 is the meme.

I'm not the guy who was greentexting at you, I'm just tired of the "it's just less people watching live" false argument.
This is the source. Pic related is the full ratings chart for S9.

I saw a graph that showed it was older people who stopped watching. Thought that was interesting. Dunno how accurate it or where those types of statistics come from though.

The drop in the ratings can't just be attributed to the show itself getting stale. It had next to no promotion last year and there's a shift in viewing habits. We started having the same thing here in France (I work in media analytics) since the start of 2016.

Nice Meme.


It's doing great for an access prime time show. Here anything above 4 millions on the same day is an impressive success.

Prove it

Well I mean. I fully recognise that the ratings are in a decline and I don't like Moffat at all, but S9 was a step up from the three previous series quality-wise,

I wasn't either of the implyers, but thank you for the link.

This picture is interesting. What happened at the end of Tom Baker's era? That drop is crazy.

It's true though. And I didn't like Series 9 very much so I'm not defending it blindly, I think some episodes were terrible. Viewing habits are shifting. I'm not saying it's only because of this, as there's probably series fatigue: it's been here for 10 years, Moffat is "still" there, there's nothing new under the sun, the terrible marketing also pointed it out "Same old, same old, just the Doctor and Clara Oswald in the TARDIS", but the viewing habits are shifting slowly. Unfortunately, there's no way to know how much people turned off because they don't watch TV or because they stopped caring about Doctor Who, so the BBC might take the easy route and fire Capaldi. I hope not.

>I didn't like Series 9 very much

Doctor Who's ninth series received critical acclaim, and was hailed by many critics as the show's best season to date.[49][50][51] Series 9 holds a perfect 100% score on online review aggregate site Rotten Tomatoes with an average score of 8.1. It has also won the Rotten Tomatoes' Golden Tomato Award for best-reviewed TV sci-fi/fantasy/horror show of 2015.[52] The site's consensus reads "Peter Capaldi and the writers have settled into an emotionally engaging tone, allowing the show to raise the stakes for the Twelfth Doctor".[53] Reaction to individual episodes has also been highly positive, with scores on the site ranging from 67% to 95%, all certified fresh by the site.[54][55] Specifically, episodes such as "The Woman Who Lived" and "Heaven Sent" received particular acclaim, with critics saying that the former "should be an episode that goes down in Doctor Who history" and "stands as perhaps the strongest entry of Season Thirty-Five thus far",[56][57] whilst the latter was labelled "a masterpiece of the highest order" and "an instant classic". The lowest-scored episode for the season was the episode written by Mark Gatiss, "Sleep No More", which gained a 67% rating though was still considered "fresh".

In reviews for various episodes across the series, many critics highlighted series 9 as the show's greatest yet. In their review for "Hell Bent", IGN called series 9 "a very strong season of Doctor Who – possibly the best season of the modern run of the show", while New York Magazine stated "It’s been a largely brilliant season... possibly even the best since the new series began" in their review for the same episode.[50][51] Discussing the series as a whole, The A.V. Club stated "Doctor Who is great again, and this season represents maybe the best mixture yet of the show’s head and its heart". Of the twelve episodes in the season, they awarded five a perfect 'A' grade (the most for any season of the show), while a further five episodes either an A- or a B+

To be clear, the Woman Who Lived and Sleep No More were terrible. The others were good with Heaven Sent being exceptional. But the others were nothing better than a 7 or 8/10.

They should have marketed Davros desu imo. He's only a secret in the cliffhanger. The snyposis for episode 1 was also kind of poor without Davros in it. It made you think Missy was the main villain of the episode.

okay but the ratings

>This picture is interesting. What happened at the end of Tom Baker's era? That drop is crazy.
Much stronger competition from ITV, basically.

Really? I was thinking it must be a glitch or something. That's so low.

To be fair, the graph isn't about the actual figures, but rather about the placements on the ratings chart.
Still, it went from a 10.5 millions average in 1979 (aided by a strike at ITV that meant there was no competition for several weeks) to about 6 millions in 1980/1981 (when it was up against Buck Rogers).



Is that Gallifrey as well?

Interesting. Didn't realize series 9 had such good reviews.

The most read newspaper here in the UK, the Daily Mail, had some awful reviews of series 9 (FTR 0/10), and generally hates the BBC anyway (probably has shares in ITV and/or Sky). Wouldn't be surprised if that influenced L+7 ratings.

Also, the 1st 2 eps were broadcast at the same time as big live rugby events on another channel, which had 12+million live viewers. And pubs here were chocablock full with people watching the live rugby on big screens.

The Daily Mail is the most read newspaper in the UK? I've always heard it treated as something of a joke.

It's often labelled as "far-right" or "racist" by professional victims because it reports facts.

gareth, no more

the top one is the sun but Daily mail is second.

both fairly right, I bet you couldn't tell by our television

>reports facts

I read the opposite: that younger people had stopped watching it Live because it was in a less 'family friendly' time slot, then weren't getting round to catching up.


>the Woman Who Lived and Sleep No More were terrible

I thought TWWL was pretty good, but agree SNM was terrible.

post some sexy images.