If you have two rooms and each has a 100w machine, but one is a heater, and the other machine lifts and drops a weight...

If you have two rooms and each has a 100w machine, but one is a heater, and the other machine lifts and drops a weight, after 1 hour, will the temperatures of the rooms be the same?

Yes

something that generates heat through a resistance coil full time is going to generate more heat than something that turns its electricity into mechanical movement with heat and friction as a byproduct

What about kinetic energy turned into sound or motor sparks turned into light?

Jesus would know.

Wrong. The amount of heat is determined by how much energy they are consuming and putting into their rooms.

Both machines use 100W. Both will put the same heat into the room.

...

Thermal energy isn't the only energy. Some of that 100w is being tied up in mechanical energy.

you're acting as if heat is the only possible byproduct of utilizing electricity, which is wrong.

one of them is purposely running electricity through a resistance coil to only generate heat, the other is moving magnets in a way that creates heat only through friction as a byproduct

Sage in all fields you faggots.

I think you're right, because no matter how much work the other machine does its all getting converted to heat.

If a weight is getting lifted in one room, then all things aren't equal.

mechanical energy transfers to heat through friction

friction isn't 100% efficient, it will not turn all of that mechanical energy into heat

whereas the heater is trying to turn all of its 100 watts into heat, only like 60% of the mechanical energy the other machine puts out will be turned into heat

The weight is dropped and all that energy is lost as heat in the impact. Mechanical vibrations and sound are dissipated in materials as heat. Friction is dissipated as heat.

In the end it is the same as if it was 100W produced in a heater.

>friction isn't 100% efficient, it will not turn all of that mechanical energy into heat

Yes it will. Where does that energy go if not heat?

Heater will be much more efficient at generating heat. The other thing will waste energy with movement sound vibration ect.

Nope
All that "wasted" energy produces heat.

Ofcourse but not as efficiently as something made to generate heat.

How heavy is the object if it takes the 100W machine the whole hour to life the object 1 metre then drop it?

but less of the 100W is wasted and turned into heat. Lifting the object is fighting gravity. Air friction wont make much heat at all

As heavy as your mother, faggot.

Eventually, sure. But some of the energy will have left the room by then. A simple example is that large speakers can use a lot of energy but if you feel one they give of little heat. Sure, eventually all energy becomes heat, but that doesn't mean immediately and in the room.

Somewhere on the electromagnetic spectrum.

We don't know the initial temperatures of the rooms.

I actually think you're not far off the truth.

100W is 100W

If both machines are consuming 100W of power then both are producing 100W of heat in the room. Period.

You are over complicating it with all your bullshit. Friction is heat. Sound is heat. Impacts are heat. Vibrations are heat.

100W of all of those is exactly equal to 100W of heat from a heater. They are both 100W.

It's like the question that asks what weighs more on the moon 100 lb of lead or 100 lb of feathers. Idiots start talking about how feathers are light. Smart people see that there are 100 lbs of both. They are the same.

There is 100W of energy in both rooms. They are the same. Period.

Somewhere in the autism spectrum

If all energy becomes heat, how is there heat death?

That is one way to become Maxwells daemon.

I'm pretty sure if they use the same amount of energy they will both emit the same amount of heat. Are you actually that stupid?

heat can also be transferred, think of geothermal energy plants or chemical reactions that produce light. But, it is much more rare in nature

>It's like the question that asks what weighs more on the moon 100 lb of lead or 100 lb of feathers. Idiots start talking about how feathers are light. Smart people see that there are 100 lbs of both. They are the same.


Okay if you try to pick both things up they will be the same, but if you drop a bag full of 100lbs of meat off a building at the same time you drop a bag with 100lbs of feathers. The meat will hit the ground first so it does weight more.

the universe expands

lol'd

Heat Death is just a hypothesis. But as I understand it the expansion of the universe is the main culprit. If the universe is infinitely expanding and will not collapse on itself, but the amount of energy is constant, then a constant amount of heat is divided over a greater and greater volume. Eventually you have a finite amount of heat over a essentially infinite area.

But I think black science man Niel DeGrasse Tyson says that won't happen.

*face palm*.... do you even do forces bro?

Neil Deblack Tyson. Cause he's a nigger

OK, that makes sense actually. I'm upvoting your post.

by that logic, a 1000w heater and a 1000w air conditioner on "cool" will pump the same amount of heat into a room.

fucking dullard.

That's why when you punch shit really hard it catches on fire.

There's other factors there like freeon or whatever it is.

Equal heat. 100Watt is being supplied, so it produces equal heat. Remember this is a perfect world, what you fags are doing is you're trying to imagine this, you can't. Even if the machine is lifting weights, energy is converted to potential energy, and when it is dropped it is converted to kinetic but since it comes to a stop all the energy is converted to heat. Imagine it this way, 100 Watts are being supplied to the 2 rooms and the states of the 2 rooms are exactly same. Where will those 100watts go if not heat. Remember even sound energy turns to heat.

The air conditioner puts equal amounts of heat outside the room.

air conditioners produce large amounts of heat, but they usually pump that outside while puming the heat inside. But you still have a point, why would we have heaters if they where just as efficient as anything else? Answer, while all energy becomes heat, it does not instantly become heat and what we care about is the heat in the room, not the heat the 100w device will produce in the universe

Try again

Care to tell me where I'm wrong.

I can tell you a 100w heater puts out a shitload more heat than a 100w incandescent light bulb even though they operate almost the same way. Only difference is the desired product.

As phrased, the question is primarily about efficiency of two types of machines for transferring energy into the atmosphere of an ideal room.

In what universe do you think a weight lifting machine is better at heating a room in 60 minutes than a goddamned heater?

>60 minutes
>to heat the air in a room
>which is more efficient
>heaters (designed to heat air)
>lifters (designed to lift)
>can you be this dumb

I would venture to say that different parts of the spectrum produce different amounts of entropy.

Equal amount of heats transferred = equal temperature. Tell me something, both machines consume 100watts of power, the final state and the initial state of the weight lifting machine is same, where do you think the 100 watts are going?

>where do you think the 100 watts are going?

Uh, to drive the motors that lift the weight? What did you think the lifter was doing? Just sitting there idling?

When you pick something up, does your arm remain stationary and suddenly feel warm? Or do you fucking pick the something up?

>Doesn't understand how air conditioners work

Do you just leave your refrigerator open instead of using air conditioning?

this would only apply if:
>Both rooms were completely isolated from each other and the outside world
>both rooms had exactly the same dimensions and composition
they don't have the same composition, because one has a heater and one has a weight-lifting machine - allowing the energy to distribute itself differently.

You assume energy=heat=temperature

Both are consuming 100W. There is no efficiency. You are pulling that term out of your ass and forcing it on the situation.

Why do you take all this extra bullshit into account, but not account for the fact you are being a giant faggot and obviously over complicating the thought experiment.

Stop being a pedantic faggot.

If you're defeining the temperature of the room as being the air temperature, then no, as the heater transfers more energy to the air than the drop machine, which wastes more energy into the floor.

But why are you assuming the room isn't made out of superconductive metals that transfer the heat to the air very fast?

>not understanding thermodynamics
>hurdurr you're over complicating it

Agree with this user. The energy transferred in each case, but the object receiving the energy vary in each case. I believe the specific heat of air is less than that of concrete, rope, or a pully...therefore the room with the direct heater will change temperature more.

>Imposing your own rules into a purposefully simple thought experiment

You are the faggot deciding exactly what the physical traits of the rooms are and pretending your opinions are the word of god.

Who said it was a direct air heater?

It's a simple thought experiment people. You can't just add details as you wish and assume the particular way you imagine it is the true and only way it can happen.

But you can't just simplify it either...

>OH EASY 100 W = 100 W gotcha OP

>saying 100W doesn't = 100W
>being serious about it

everyone in this thread is stupid, trolling, or misinformed

heat and work are different forms of energy. the power input is the same, one room is generating more work, the other is generating more heat. total energy of both systems are equal, but not the heat (nor work).

Well, typically these sort of questions have the assumptions I've made because if this were a solving question instead of a simple yes or no questions. The statements you just made would make it impossible to solve the question. It looks like you have some sort of science background, why don't you know that we take everything to be ideal in a physics question?

You dumbfuck, the weight lifting machine is lifting AND DROPPING the weights, the net displacement of the weights is 0. Therefore the net work done is also 0.

The energy from lifting and dropping the weight will be released as heat from every drop. So all the energy in both rooms is ultimately heat.

holy fuck this thread explains so much. I've been trying to cool my house with a 100w fan and its only been heating it up.

>where do you think the 100 watts are going?
Sound maybe?

I'm going to push a 1 ton block of ice over a teflon sheet for 1 hour which will consume 100w of heat. then i will run a 100w heater in another rooom for 1 hour which will produce 100w of energy.

and sound is lost as heat

If only there were alternate forms of energy other than heat....

Energy forms are either potential or kinetic. Potential energy comes in forms that are stored including — chemical, gravitational, mechanical, and nuclear. Kinetic energy forms are doing work — like electrical, heat, light, motion, and sound.

I'm going to run a 100w motor to compress a spring in 1 room. In the other room I'm going to run a 100w heater.

Which room will be warmer?

Agree, wisefag.

Good point.

I guess that's enough devil's advocate for today.

Thankfully it was Einstein who said "Heat can neither be generated or destroyed - just like the jews."

>my own rules
>the laws of physics
kk lets see what little jimmy has to say about how energy distributes itself through different environments

No - the machine which lifts and drops weight is probably using a motor, which requires energy stored in a magnetic field to propel the rotor.

Dude im sorry but YOU dont understand thermodynamics. Or at least you are bad at it. TD at its best tries to limit the amount of factors as much as possible as problems trend to spiral in complexity very quickly. You are doing the polar opposite and call someone out on their TD skills.
Technically speaking you would probably be right by a very very low percentage but in a normal situation a percentage like that would be totally negclected by any serious engineer.

So yeah, 100w = 100w. And youre a fag.

you guys forget to take into account the breeze created from the dropping of the weight which will in fact cool the room.

>heater is hotter

think of the room as a black box and all you know is that 100 watts of power is being delivered to room, doesnt matter what is happening in room, so yes. physics grad here, but i could be wrong.

Then why do heaters exist when people have all kinds of mechanical appliances in their homes?

Thank you!
U=Q-W
W is zero so U=Q.
Simple, clean.

guess what, motors get warm, hahahahah

Because it's quiet and less expensive than a computer

So a 100w heater generates the same amount of heat as a motor that's compressing a spring?

One converts energy in the form of kinetic energy and one converts energy in the form of elastic energy?

Yeah, but in addition to that some of the energy will HAVE to be held in a magnetic field to act against the rotor. That's how motors work.

The heater is designed to release that wattage as heat as efficiently as possible. The lifting machine only creates potential energy when it lifts the weight, and a tiny amount of heat from friction.

The answer is, "no, the temps will not be the same."

guess what, in a closed system (room) all energy delivered into the closed system eventually gets converted to heat, if this is a textbook question, this is what they are asking if you understand, judging by the wording and attempt at obfuscation

after 1 hour?

This guy gets it.

>The lifting machine only creates potential energy when it lifts the weight,
And when the weight drops
What happens to that stored energy?

Is it destroyed?
Is it converted to another form?

Dubs don't lie. Also I don't think most these people have studied even basic thermodynamics to understand what Q and U stand for.

its converted to heat and sound and possibly elastic energy that is stored in the object it lifted in terms of deformation.

technically, the answer is no, the probablity that temperatures of two macroscopic closed systems are identical to within measurement error in any time frame is indistinguishable from zero. But, in principle, based on the psychology of physics test preparers, the answer is yes.

>its converted to heat
>>>heat
>and sound and possibly elastic energy
Where does the sound/elastic go after that? Obviously it doesn't echo around ad infinitum.

The answer is no. In mathemagical land the answer is yes.

College fag here
>mechE master race

Assume both rooms are closed systems
>no heat in or out, this includes vibrations, sound, etc
Examine system boundary
>both rooms have 100W power in
>method of machine is irrelevant
Both rooms change their total heat equally, at a rate of 100W.
>in reality the heater room is hotter because sound escapes the room that drops the weight

if your time scale is infinity please let me know.

Kek

>sound escapes the room that drops the weight
This, this is the key
All the debate boils down to this

If the systems are closed (not even sound can escape) then they will be the same temperature

If not (sound can escape) then the heater room will be warmer