The Great Debate

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MMT
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MMT
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good hustle 10/10 lads debate over

Mmt is the only good psych pop album along with Piper. So obviously MMT

i wonder if hippies on acid bought and listened to this thinking it was beatles

MMT by far

Probably not dude, acid doesn't make you totally retarded, plus iirc they couldn't use that cover originally. Also real hippies didn't listen to the beatles.

Mono or Stereo?

Fuck you and fuck this stupid meme

Seriously though. The Stereo for these albums sounds terrible.

Abbey Road

White Album desu

This. Not even Zappa's best album of the 60s but still much better than Sgt. Pepper's.

Why? They sound fine.

I would say Sgt Pepper is better because of the lack of unity and refinement on WOIIFTM.

But Pepper's isn't unified either. It being considered a concept album is the biggest meme of all time.

Martin did the mixes totally independent of the band. They oversaw the mono mixing and it's how they intend the album to be heard. The stereo mixes have a lot of weird, mostly stupid or unnecessary, changes. The changes and how good or bad they are is subjective but it's not how the album is intended to be listened.

>But Pepper's isn't unified either.
If course it is. Why isn't it.
>It being considered a concept album
Not relevant

>Martin did the mixes totally independent of the band
Not relevant
>intended
Not relevant

The fact that so many books still name the Beatles as “the greatest or most significant or most influential” rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success. The Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worthy of being saved.

Oh what instrument do you play again?

Epic.

?

Not him but the beatles suck. I play drums and percussion and have done so for two decades and about a decade professionally. Wanna fight faggot?

Please Ringo.

So you don't know music theory?

I have a BA in percussion performance. I took 5 years of theory (freshman theory up till 21st century analytical techniques and jazz theory) in college alone and two years in high school and i've been able to read music since the age of 7.
What do you want to talk about?

How then you understand how harmonically complex The beatles are.

>all these accomplishments
>posts on Sup Forums

What a tool.

He;s probably a drummer in some metal band what do you expect?

I have far greater accomplishments than just going to school. I've been lurking on Sup Forums for over a decade, so I've been here and keep coming back. What a tool! sad!

What does harmonic complexity have to do with it being good? Fusion is extremely complex harmonically but that does make it inherently good now does it? Same with 21st century art music, using extended techniques every which way to explore timbre within dense harmonic structures that ultimately just sound like noise to the untrained ear, that doesn't inherently make it good.

Harmonic complexity =/= good
Plus a lot of their tunes are just your now standard 4 chord rock and roll songs so...

It's boring music to me, there's maybe 4 or 5 tunes in their catalog I'll listen to but I never go out of my way to listen to the beatles, let alone claim they're the greatest thing to grace the earth.

I've never played in a metal band. I do play in small jazz ensembles, play in multiple blues rock bands, a funk/disco band, a folk band, small percussion ensembles, subbed in orchestras outside of the university, etc etc. Nice projection tho

doesn't make it inherently...*

wtf does the harmonica have to do with the beatles?

Thanks for the blog post, Dick O'Tool.

Cry me a river faggot
>wahh someone is using the post feature on the website wahhh

>wahh someone is using the post feature on the website wahhh

Literally the reason you entered this thread.

>It's boring music to me
So you are saying you don't understand the harmonic complexity.
>Nice projection tho
Hmm I've been playing guitar, bass, keyboards and drums for longer than you've been alive in more bands than you. How is that projecting?

Wow my le faith in Sup Forums is restored
MMT is the best

Literally the reason for such websites to exist
holy shit someone is making a comment! wow what a tool! if you don't like it maybe you can go to reddit where you can downvote posts you don't like and you won't have to see it. or maybe you can actually get good at music! sad!

The Beatles sold a lot of records not because they were the greatest musicians but simply because their music was easy to sell to the masses: it had no difficult content, it had no technical innovations, it had no creative depth.

>So you are saying you don't understand the harmonic complexity.
Are you retarded?
>Hmm I've been playing guitar, bass, keyboards and drums for longer than you've been alive in more bands than you. How is that projecting?

Oh okay. You are.
>he's probably just some metal drummer xdd
That's projection, it came from you and your experiences and does not vibe with mine, you imposed this on me when metal was never even brought up in the conversation. that's projection.

That's great man! Where do you play? I play in the central texas area and have been making the rounds in the circuit and have played numerous festivals and featured in conventions like PASIC in 2012 and 2015, TMEA also in 2015 and a few times before that, and am in the works of getting a 7 week summer tour off the ground to promote an album I recorded in seattle a few months ago. sup with you lad?

>Are you retarded?
Are you? You said you studied music theory, yet you don't seem to understand their harmonic complexity. What's the reason?
>Oh okay. You are.
How so?
>That's projection, it came from you and your experiences and does not vibe with mine
I don't think you understand what project is.

>no technical innovations
I can't tell if you're just a retard or trying to get my (you)

>Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

Hmm. really fires some synapses.

I understand you're a little on the slow side of the intelligence spectrum so I'll reiterate my previous point for you.

Harmonic complexity does not make music inherently good. If the beatles were basing tunes off the coltrane matrix, tone rows, z cells, and other theoretical techniques, if the end result is the listener not being engaged with the music, then the music has failed and it's just background noise. Millions of musicians and nonmusicians alike love the beatles, great! they connect with the music on some level, I don't and for you to keep saying "hurrr its cuz u dun understand teory durrr" is the most idiotic reason out of all of them to pick from. I've had formal theory classes for almost a decade. Only a retard would think the beatles is too complex for the likes of someone who has gone through an music institution. surprise! you're a retard!

you should explain the technical innovations to him instead of just following the heard that says there is. explain it in your own words (not others) what innovations the beatles had in music and give context of the time. surely you know enough about the music to express these details, right?

You are a perfect example of the plebeian filth spoiling this board with their sad obession with mediocre dadrock.

Contemporary musicians never spoke highly of the Beatles, and for good reason. They could never figure out why the Beatles' songs should be regarded more highly than their own. They knew that the Beatles were simply lucky to become a folk phenomenon (thanks to "Beatlemania", which had nothing to do with their musical merits). That phenomenon kept alive interest in their (mediocre) musical endeavours to this day.

>Hmm. really fires some synapses.
I don't play in the metal genre at all, so it can't be projection. Nice try though
>Harmonic complexity does not make music inherently good
What does?
>Millions of musicians and nonmusicians alike love the beatles, great! they connect with the music on some level, I don't
So... they don't suck, and you are just wrong?

Newfag detected

Then why did you bring up metal in the first place? Why did you project that image onto me even when I had previously said I'm a trained musician that has formal music education under my belt? What retard does this? Salty ones like yourself I'd imagine.

Wow! different people have different experiences in life and therefore experience art in different ways!? no way!? The merits of music aren't a single homogenized list of criteria decided upon by a grand elder court of musicians to judge all music by?! WHO FUCKING KNEW

Millions of people (musicians and nonmusicians alike) listen to Drake, Lady Gaga, Nickle Back, Avenged Sevenfold, Slipknot, etc.
So.... they don't suck right? because millions of people buy their music, surely all of those people are trained musically at some level and have collectively decided these are the people who do music correctly, right?

Where you fail is in thinking there is right and wrong in music and if you want to pull back even further, art in general.

There's a wrong way to play instruments, until that wrong way is used musically in the context of a piece of music that means something to someone. thats what extended techniques (prepared piano, "honking" sax, quarter tones on strings, etc) are. This idea that music is this one thing and only this one thing and if you disagree then you know nothing about music is fucking retarded.
maybe you should go to school for music and learn something about music so you can formulate your own opinions on the functions of certain types of music and get an idea of what you as a person like and don't like and try to understand you're only you and not everyone follows group think like you do!

/thread

MMT

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What do you mean?
>Then why did you bring up metal in the first place? Why did you project that image onto me even when I had previously said I'm a trained musician that has formal music education under my belt? What retard does this? Salty ones like yourself I'd imagine
So you misspoke
>Wow! [wall of text]
Doesn't look like you answered my questions. Try again?

this desu senpai

Holy shit, I get it you're retarded man but this is just ridiculous. Yes, I, the person accused of
>He;s probably a drummer in some metal band what do you expect?
Misspoke. What ^^^^^^^ is is totally NOT projection. Idiot

I did answer, maybe you should learn to read! Sad!

>Contemporary musicians never spoke highly of the Beatles

You mean like Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan or Karlheinz Stockhausen or Roger McGuinn or John Cale?

This is their worst album.

Rubber Soul defeats all.

>I did answer,
You specifically said why they suck other than
>they're boring lol
You didn't.

Wow you must be a great musical person to be around!

People like Monk, Cannonball Adderly, Oscar Peterson, Tony Williams, Archie Shepp, Clifford Jordan, Cedar Walton...

Man, I do love this album.

Magic Mystery Tour over Sgt. Pepper by the way. I like Sgt. Pepper a lot but there are some songs that are skippable for me, meanwhile I can listen to Magic Mystery Tour all the way thru and love it.

But their music is boring. What part of different people experience music differently can't you comprehend? You seem to think the "harmonic complexity" (lol) of the beatles makes them good and everyone likes them because of it. YOU like the beatles becaue they're "harmonically complex".
I DON'T. I don't vibe with their music, it's frilly pop bullshit that does not interest me or my ear, an ear that is extensively trained and has had more musical experience than you would ever care to know about. They're boring as fuck.

Yeah that's why I get called to play gigs, record albums on the band leaders dime, got into school with scholarships for my musical ability, playing 4 - 6 nights a week. I'm such a terrible musical person to be around! no one wants to play with me!! sad!

>falling for a meme this hard
>writes multiple paragraph-long discussions as a result
Thats What i fucking mean, newfag

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Calm down

>I'm such a terrible musical person to be around!
Yeah you sound like a faggot.

>acid doesn't make you totally retarded

oh, so hippies were always that way. interesting

It isn't a concept album. But it's a tightly wound carnival showcasing the various facets of psychedelia of the era.

If you haven't realized by now, possibly the best talent of the Beatles was their ability to bring very different ideas together and make them sound cohesive. They did this with their songs (Happiness is a Warm Gun, Lucy, She's So Heavy) and they did it with their albums (notably Sgt. Pepper, The White Album, Abbey Road)

MMT all the way

agreed that they are the best psych pop albums,
not so much about about it being the only good psych pop albums

Have you listened to Please Please Me?

You are a fucking retard.

It wasn't specified, but MMT the EP or the LP?

How so?

How is this relevant?

...

>In 1967, when Brian Wilson first heard the song, he pulled over in his car, broke down in tears and said, ‘They got there first.” Then, later that year, after hearing the Beatles’ next album, Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, he had a nervous breakdown.

Well, is there a Sgt Pepper EP?

tfw you win argument

Pet sounds>Piper>MMT>the rest

>moving goalposts
>winning an argument

youre stupid he literally beat you

He didn't. Not only did he shift goalposts, but he hid behind subjectivity when he couldn't explain why he thought something was boring.

Then he made an embarrassing appeal to authority.

you're stupid he literally beat you

>It sucks because I don't like it!
>wow what a great argument

>>It sucks because I don't like it!
>>wow what a great argument

you're stupid he literally beat you

Nah

Strawberry Alarm Clock? The Zombies? Dukes of Stratosphear? King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard? The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band?

Psych Pop is the best Pop in my eyes because it doesn't try to take itself seriously and I can enjoy it without feeling vexed.

>inb4 When I'm Sixty-Four is worst song

I'm just preparing...

For mono: Sgt Pepper
For stereo:MMT

based af