Now that the dust as settled we can agree his plan was kind of stupid

Now that the dust as settled we can agree his plan was kind of stupid.

It was. How did he end up working in the secret 'we have this building in germany just in case the avengers fuck up' base anyway?

t. retards, take your heads out of your boyfriend's laps when watching movies.

>2deel4u

You're as bad as Snyderfags

He didn't end up working there, he kidnapped, murdered, and impersonated the guy who was sent there to do the evaluation. And it wasn't some special building, it just looked like some kind of German military/police facility.

Uhm... but it worked? The Avengers are now split up and basically don't exist anymore as a coherent team.
He is the most successful villain so far.

Pretty sure Tony is still running the avengers (they were in the avengers building at the end right?)

The other half of the team were arrested but that didn't seem to be part of his plan (though they later escaped)

He's got Vision and a paraplegic Warmachine.
Widow might be either way
and Panther isn't really an Avenger.
Cap's got the main team of the Avengers and they all fucked off

I thought Zemo's plan was to literally make them kill each other.

>Pretty sure Tony is still running the Avengers

Himself, Spider-Man, Vision, and maybe War Machine. The rest of the Avengers are all doing their own thing.

Zemo doesn't have a master plan, he calls audibles the whole way through and is looking for evidence he knows will tear the avengers apart.

Zemo's first plan (interrogating the Hydra agent) didn't work. The Hydra agent told him nothing and took the "1991" information to the grave.

So Zemo's next plan is to get the international intelligence community to find Bucky, because Zemo does not have the resources to find him himself, How does he do this? By framing Bucky in a terrorist incident, aimed at the Accords, knowing their full resources will be used to find Bucky. Why does he need Bucky? To tell him about the details of the "1991" mission, to have Bucky tell him where the tape is showing the assassination of the Stark's, where the facility is that created him. That's why he needs the book with the activation words for Bucky that he got from the Hydra agents home, because Bucky is not going to tell him, if he even remembers, but a controlled Winter Soldier will.

That interrogation is the only plan of Zemo that works out the way he wanted.

Steve, Stark, and Bucky showing up at the end was not part of his plan, but since he has them there and the tape of Stark's parents death, it's as good a place as any to use it.

tbc

Every piece of dialog supports this, Zemo knows he can't physically hurt the Avengers himself "Stronger men have tried and failed"

Zemo finds the Hydra Agent in the first place because of Black Widow leaking all of Shields files on the net in CAP 2.

Zemo says the files were heavily encrypted but because of his skills he has cracked the encryption and has spent the last year studying them to find a way to bring down the Avengers. We know from Iron Man 2 and Avengers 1 Hydra/Shield kept full psyche evaluations on these people, The Winter Soldiers main plot was about Hydra using a psyche evaluation algorithm to predict future threats. So there is no leap in logic about what Zemo would have in those files to study. He knows Stark, when seeing the death of his parents (proof), would do everything he could to kill Bucky, he knew Steve would do everything to keep that from happening, and that the two heads of the Avengers would tear each other apart over it somehow, someway.

And this isn't even going into his motivation.

Amazing well written villain. Hell if anything he's the best BOND villain we have had in the last 30-40 years.

This.

he gets it

What was his motivation other than his family? I may have missed it.

Why did Zemo call the hotel so they would find the body in his room? How did he know only Tony would find about it, and that only Tony would go to Siberia to find Cap?

There are some insane plot contrivances

The body was from the actual psychologist, anybody finding it would had been a clear tip that something was wrong, Tony wasnt the only one that knew, it was on the news, Friday of course thought it was important and told Tony who then did more research

>The body was from the actual psychologist, anybody finding it would had been a clear tip that something was wrong
Right, and why would Zemo want them to know something is wrong when they're still chasing Bucky and he already had them fighting? How did he know only Tony would find out where Cap was going, and go to Siberia alone, thus violating the Sokovia accords that he supposedly supported?

Zemo letting them find the body really made no sense unless he magically knew only Tony would find out and would go to Siberia alone so he could show Cap, Tony and Bucky the CCTV footage.

Also the fact that the CCTV footage existed in the first place really shows how incompetent uber assassin Bucky actually is, since he was specifically told no witnesses yet shoots out the car in the only spot on a isolated road surrounded by trees where there happens to be a camera

>Steve, Stark, and Bucky showing up at the end was not part of his plan
Yes it was, or he wouldn't have lured Stark there himself.
He didn't know Cap and Bucky were on their way to Siberia (mostly because they weren't yet) when he ordered room service to the room he was staying in.

Perhaps Hydra had cameras all over the place so they could keep an eye out on him? In case, you know, he snapped out of the brain wash? Idk I'm stretching it.

Why were there cameras there at all?

Was the camera mounted on a tree?

>he already had them fighting?
The airport fight was not a part of Zemo's plan, nor did he have any idea it was happening.

There was a gate, user.

Then why would Bucky shoot the camera?
It was most likely a Stark residence security camera, and Hydra, inside Shield retrieved the tape before anybody else could see it

>and impersonated
He just walked into a high security complex for a face to face meeting with one of the most dangerous people in the world and no one checked his photo ID?

Oh fuck you're right, I forgot he shot it, but you figured it out already anyways.

>he kills the super soldiers
>Did you think I wanted more of you running around
what a twist

He probably already spoofed it so that every instance of the dead dude would yield his face. That's what I do in Shadowrun.

>he wouldn't have lured Stark there himself.
He did?

For some reason you people don't realize that all he needed was framing Bucky and getting the tape, which didn't need any unplanned luck. The things that happen by luck (like Steve and Bucky going to the Siberia base) which are the ones people shit on him for, weren't necessary.

Zemo himself leaked the real psychiatrist being dead, which lead the local news.
Tony found out, Friday told Tony that the guy interrogating Bucky was really a guy named Zemo, Tony figures out that Cap might not have been wrong about Bucky after all, asks Falcon where Cap and Bucky went.
It's not rocket science, Zemo had studied the Avengers for a year, after all.

To be fair, I've seen people question why Zemo went to Vasily Karpov's place at the beginning of the movie.
>mfw Captain America: Civil War is too complex for some people

>He probably already spoofed it so that every instance of the dead dude would yield his face.
Yet Friday found out who he was in about a second.

>the super advanced artificial intelligence of the wealthiest, smartest man in the world is better than some shitty ID reader the German police have
Wew lad.

Look, I know what you're trying to get to but all that implies is he wanted Tony at the very least to find the tape. He could have brought the whole gang with him and Zeemo wouldn't care. He know Tony would flip his shit. Probably kill everyone in the process if not himself. Tony was fucking holding back with that fight, he'd have killed Cap if he wanted to. You can bet that if the rest of the Avengers tried to stop him, he'd take the fight seriously and have crippled them first.

Then Vision probably rips his heart out or something.

If every instance of his face had been edited, how did Friday find out who he was?

>You can bet that if the rest of the Avengers tried to stop him, he'd take the fight seriously and have crippled them first.
>Then Vision probably rips his heart out or something.
And this would achieve what, user?
What was Zemo's plan?

What was a German doing in Sokovia?

Is he the purple guy? Why does he wear the mask?

>If every instance of his face had been edited
The other user is dumb for believing this.

End of an empire.

So are the German police

Exactly.
Having ALL the Avengers in Siberia wouldn't be a detriment to Zemo's plan, it would actually only drive them further apart.
In the movie, the ONE thing that could've fucked over Zemo's plan was ironically, the Sokovia Accords.

the whole movie wouldn't exist if cap just told wanda or vision to read bucky's mind in the beggining

Sokovian pussy is best MCU pussy.

>in the beginning
Bucky wasn't at the beginning of the movie though.
And Vision can't read minds.

>And Vision can't read minds.
Doesn't he have the mind stone?

Just because I have a dick doesn't mean I can fuck your mom, user.

Yes, but that doesn't allow a person to read minds.

It can definitely allow mind control
Why didn't Vision just mind control Bucky and Cap and fly them into the Sun?

just wanda then
or even that machine tony created
zemo's plan was fucking retarded

Are you being stupid with me on purpose user?

By the time Bucky came into play in the movie, Wanda was under house arrest.
>or even that machine tony created
We know next to nothing about the machine or how mobile it is, but you suggest they bring the machine into the field to use it on Bucky.
Why would they use the machine on Bucky?

>Are you being stupid with me on purpose user?
The mind stone was part of Loki's scepter that allowed mind control
Why can't Vision control minds?

What exactly are Black Panther's abilities? How will he revelantly contribute to the fight against Thanos?

>Why can't Vision control minds?
Because he can't control the Mind Gem.
This is mentioned several times in the movie.

>Because he can't control the Mind Gem.
He uses it to laser people regularly

Magic body on captain america level + vibranium suit.

Basically a black Cap + vibranium suit.

he's able to channel energy through it, doesn't mean he can use it to control minds

>he's able to channel energy through it,
He's powered by it, what energy are you talking about?

He's a super soldier?

hows he gonna drink that wine with the mask

He ate some roots and became super strong. I shit you not. This is the stupid origin story of that boring ass "superhero".

WHY DOESNT TONY GIVE THEM ALL IRON MAN SUITS

To whom?
They do not need them.

nigga, nothing about vision makes sense.

No one should really stand a chance against Thanos w/ Infinity Guantlet especially Earth level heroes like BP, Cap and IM. We'll probably see more cosmic entities and heroes join the fray to even out the battle before Thanos eventually memes his way to failure. Sucks that Surfer is a no go for now. Adam Warlock when?

He's like a Bond villain if James Bond movies were made for 3 year olds

>he can't hurt the avengers
>shooting them is harder than an insanely complex plan that basically only worked because of pure luck to show Tony a video of his dead parents which in the end accomplished nothing (all the heroes are still around. Some of them being in jail is unrelated to his actual plan)

You're worse than DCkeks
It's fucking pathetic. Zemo we shit and his plan was stupid and didn't work
Frankly his entire character was unneeded. Just make the movie about the UN trying to control the avengers.

>he can get the avengers to show up in a specific place
>he can't just hide a giant bomb there

Are any of them bomb proof? Tony in his iron outfit is about it.

>he's not strong enough to kill them
What shitty writing

Hulk and Dr. Strange can fight with him.

He do not want some avengers dead, he wants to destroy whole concept of them m8.

How was it stupid?
It worked as well as it could have.
The avengers didnt kill eachother but they are destroyed symbolically in the eyes of the world and probably wont be able to operate in the same capacity without getting attacked by big brother.

>Just make the movie about the UN trying to control the avengers

How do you make UN an acceptable villain without resorting to Hydra again

>UN
>Controlling something
This can't work. Nobody respects this organization in real life.

>>shooting them is harder than an insanely complex plan that basically only worked because of pure luck to show Tony a video of his dead parents which in the end accomplished nothing (all the heroes are still around. Some of them being in jail is unrelated to his actual plan)
I guess you missed the part where a literal alien god and a super murderbot tried to "shoot" the Avengers and got their shit pushed in for the effort.

I feel like him successfully killing himself at the end would have destroyed his supervillain status and that he only has that status because Black Panther kept him alive. He's literally the same as the burnt up guy in the super suit in the beginning just with more luck. A guy out for revenge and nothing else.

>I'll frame Bucky even though there is already a manhunt out for him
>this will cause captain America to go against his orders because he wants to save his friend for some reason that I know they are friends
>also while its public knowledge no one told Tony his parents were killed by Bucky
>also the UN wants to put the avengers under control which is unrelated to my plan
>half the team ends up in jail even though that was part of my plan I'll take it
>I can't kill them but I can make a plan that's even more complex and less likely to work instead of just shooting them
>Bucky is free...to be put on ice
>also I have just made two seperate avengers team
>one set of avengers are wanted criminals though really that had nothing to do with my plan and was just an added bonus

Is Zemo the worst villain in marvel?

None of their plans worked anyway . I guess you missed that part

Maybe Zeno should have ordered pizzas to the avengers mansion? That would have been a good evil plan too

>>I'll frame Bucky even though there is already a manhunt out for him
The bombing drew the public eye to Bucky, which forced him from hiding.
>>this will cause captain America to go against his orders because he wants to save his friend for some reason that I know they are friends
There is literally a museum exhibit about Steve and Bucky's friendship.
Literally.
And besides, he's spent an entire year studying the Avengers.
>>also while its public knowledge no one told Tony his parents were killed by Bucky
It isn't.
>>also the UN wants to put the avengers under control which is unrelated to my plan
How is this a criticism of Zemo's plan?
>>half the team ends up in jail even though that was part of my plan I'll take it
The airport fight and it's aftermath was not a part of Zemo's plan.
In fact Zemo couldn't have possibly known the Avengers were fighting each other in Leipzig, Zemo being in the ass end of Siberia at the time.
>>I can't kill them but I can make a plan that's even more complex and less likely to work instead of just shooting them
>kill some of the Avengers
>the rest of the team unifies to defeat a common foe, becoming even stronger
>kill all the Avengers
>some other superheroes group up to form a new team of Avengers
Wew lad

What do you think Zemo's goal was, what did he strive for?

Big problems with Zemo's plans:

How did he get the resources to impersonate Bucky and bomb that building to frame him? Did he just happen to have one of those Mission Impossible face mask machines?

How was he able to know who was going to interrogate Bucky after his capture and have the resources to intercept said person? What kind of connections did he even have to know *when* Bucky would have been captured and where he would have been sent to.

How did he manage to time the EMP bomb perfectly with his interrogation?

Nah, you're just too fucking retarded to understand a superhero movie.

What would have happened if Falcon told Iron Man to fuck off towards the end and didn't tell him where Captain America was going? What if Zemo has this elaborate plan that involves Iron Man, but the only people who show up are Captain America and Bucky? Does he tell them to come back later with Iron Man?

How did he know about DEC 11 1991?

Why did he even need DEC 11 1991 if he already has the avengers fighting each other

Name a single scene in the movie before Siberia where the Avengers fight each other based on Zemo's actions.
You can't because the airport fight wasn't a part of Zemo's plan

I hope this is bait.

The scene where the cops, War Machine, and Black Panther try to arrest Bucky and Captain America fights them.

Black Panther isn't an Avenger, nor were the police.
War Machine fought nobody.

I still don't get why he doesn't want them dead if he blames them for his family's death.

If it's cos he knows he'll fail being non-powered, then that's shitty.

No the UN and general authorities are fooled by a wig and a mask

Because the existence of a vigilante group like the Avengers resulted in Sokovia and the shit that killed his family. Ultron was, directly or indirectly, a creation of the Avengers, and it was their unregulated "world police" mentality that resulted in that tragedy. They then prevented the world from being wiped out but fucked off once the dust settled.

How about the airport fight? That only happened because Zemo allowed Bucky to escape. I'm not saying he planned every little thing that happened after it, but it's not hard to figure out that Captain America and his sidekick would try to help Bucky and that Iron Man and his sidekick would try to stop them.

Boom! This guy's paying attention!

This Autist probably enjoyed bvs!

Nowhere does he say he doesn't want them dead.
He just knows he'll never be able to kill them himself, so strives to force the Avengers kill themselves, or at the very least completely destroy the Avengers as a team.

He knows he can't kill them, he's seen a literal god try and fail to do it. He just wants to break up the group.

It wasn't a part of Zemo's plan, nor did he have any idea it was even happening.

You're fucking awesome. Thank you.

So what makes a good villainous plan? Is it the complexity, the execution, or the success? Or all three?

Its also the viability of it. If the plan is bullshit but works anyway it comes off as bullshit

Fine but what's there to gain from "destroying" the Avengers? It's not they're glass and incapable of reforming. It's like his plan only works to dent the BFFiness of the team.

He should've released the soldiers then blew up the base while Cap and Bucky were fighting. Bang, evil wins.

He had nothing to gain other than the satisfaction of knowing two things:

1) That a broken Avengers could never be as devastating to the world as a united force of cunts;

2) That he has avenged his own family's death by conquering the Avengers and making them suffer from losing their "family" just like he did.

Bearing in mind his plan was suicide by the end anyway the long-term ramifications of his plan never really mattered to him.

The best villainous plan is the Xanatos Gambit. You never really see it in movies much though.