How do you feel about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

How do you feel about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

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Wish they'd stop ignoring me.

it's bizarro how they store so many records on people in a mountain

Howcome user?

Seems to me they decided Christianity wasn't good enough and started making up more to the story.

Plot thickener.

No more or less fucked up than any other religion. As long as they aren't trying to proselytize on Sup Forums don't give a fuck about them.

Are you refering to the golden plates?

More like filled in all the plot holes, in my opinion. Its like only watching Star War 1 , 3, and 6 and thinking you got the whole story.

Here's one right here user

A refuge for the weak-minded. Like all religions.

>inb4 fedora
Tongue my anus.

Fair enough

Finally, I pass you guys in the street, and you guys "nope" right out of there. You guys talk to everyone else though. What gives?

Can you explain how religion = weak mindedness? Im not attacking you im jw

I love their answer to the question of Homosexuality.

"It's ok to be gay, as long as you aren't actually being gay."

lol.

Are they missionaries? Have you approached them at all? Thats very odd, what country do you live in?

Racing Scientology for stupidest fucking religion.

I believe so, they had their bibles on had and were in pairs of two. I think you guys normally go in pairs of two? I approached one group who was talking to someone, and they ignored me. Like I didn't exist.

Country: Canada

no

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite_Mountain_(Utah)

no, im referring to the hundreds of pages that were transcribed from a few dozen plates.

Thats so not okay. Yeah, they are always with a companion. Would you be interested in getting to speak with missionaries? It is very easy to set up appointments online. You can also just walk in to any LDS church during a service, vistors are always welcomed.

I personally find it sad that there is indeed unrefutable evidence that the founder of their faith was a swindler, a man who is documented to have made up stories to get money & worship from other people. It is clear to anyone who reads the history of Joseph Smith, that he wrote The Book of Mormon, a work of Christian-Fanfiction, himself, in order to get money, women, & adoration. The book contradicts archaeology, & is proven to not be based in truth; I personally find that very sad.

Some languages get a lot of information across with very few charactors/space. Reformed Egyptian was simply one of them.

Well. it works on several levels. You get young-earth creationists, inteligent design and stuff like that (mormons generally belong here) who are just too ignorant and lazy to study basic facts about biology or geography.

The underlying aversion to coldness of scientific process, no matter how good it is at approximating the truth is present in pretty much all of religions.

Ah you know, I wanted to put an effort into writing a well thought out paragraph but it's 2 AM and the whole businiess of religious arguing on the internet is stupid. Let's just say it's nothing more but my mere opinion that it takes a particularly weak mind to believe that there is a being that unconditionally loves you but will condemn you to eternal suffering if you touch yourself at night, should we stick to abrahamic religions.

And g' night.

Well he certainly didnt get much profit from his prophethood user. It was very difficult being chased around the country like he was. Out of curiosity, can I see some of this evidence?

I don't want to argue and I know you aren't here but even touching yourself won't send you to hell. You only need to believe in Jesus, abstinence from sins is just adding on more points, if you will.

Thank you for your reply user. It was very insightful. Im not looking for a fight, I was curious. I encourage you to at least give our father in heaven ONE CHANCE via prayer, and he we testify to you via the Holy Spirt that he is true and that he loves you. Goodnight user.

Okay thanks!

Well firstly the book of Mormon mentions them riding on horses, event hough there is no archaeological record of horses of a size humans could ride on, in the Americas, until the Spanish arrived.

Secondly it talks about large armies with swords, except that any time in history there has been a battle with swords, where people died, archaeologists have always found swords, yet, there has never been any swords from that era found in the Americas.

It claims that they made such weapons by smelting steel, event though again archaeologists have found no smelting sites of any kind.

The chariots and the cities described have never been found either.

Genetics have shown Native Americans to be unrelated to Hebrews.

Therefore the conclusion is that the book is fiction, fake, untrue...to my deepist sadness.

What can I do to help you out?

I shall spit in the face of god.

I walk around with my arms out, touching everything I find, tracing it's contours until i understand how it really feels.

prove it motherfucker.

You're a witness? Batshit crazy religion but my gf is like an ex jw so all the shit she tells me fascinates me

Indeed, also the fact that there is no evidence in Egypt of any such language, shows that there never was such a language. Egyptian history shows Egyptian slowly blended with Greek to become Coptic before it was overtaken by Arabic.

> no swords in the Americas
I believe Aztecs or Mayans had swords made out of obsidian, just FYI.

youtube.com/watch?v=ef7ux6lvOeQ

youtube.com/watch?v=CtBe_nehW3A

youtube.com/watch?v=LdCEJISKWHc

The Book of Mormon tells us that there were several catastrophic events that took place in the Americas before the arrival of Europeans, almost on the level of the flood. This would have demolished a lot of it. Also, biblical stories dont necessarily leave evidence. For example, we havent found Noahs Ark but we know it existed. We know the tower of Babel existed, but dont have bits of it in a muesem. Not to say that it didnt happen, we just know that we dont really have to have "hard evidence" for everything. God wouldnt tell us about it if there was bc he wouldnt have to. Am I making any sense user? Im on mobile so sorry if my spelling and grammar are off.

But the book of Mormon says "Steel Swords" there is no evidence of such existing in the Americas from that time. Also what the Aztecs & Mayans had were daggers/knives, not swords, & making a dagger out of stone is completely different from smelting steel.

fine for whoever feels they need it, no use for it personally

ex member

served as a missionary for about a year and a half in japan. lost all faith by the end of the first year. tried to keep on b/c family fallout but couldent bear it to pretend i believed all of it.

AMA. Yes. they have a masonic blood oath. NO most don't know about it anymore since they took out the specific wording for it in 91. but kept the hand signs.

We do not know that Noah's Ark existed, there is no proof of such a ship.

I meant just wondering lol. Sorry about the confusion. Im OP btw

also a ship as the bible describes is physically impossible

Im going to reply to what I have left to reply to, then im off to bed. Thank you all for the conversation, I learned a lot from you all. Perhaps Ill start a thread tomorrow and we can resume

What wut? Masonic blood order? Explain

Hi, OP here. Im actually a recent convert, what made you fall away?

Failed masons

I'm an elder currently and my father is a high elder.

The church as a whole needs to reread the book of Alma and brush up on the meaning of the word "iniquity".
I live in Utah literally the LDS capital of the world and I can only say that the church is very misguided.
They've lost touch of what it means to do the lords work and completely forgotten that iniquity is the worst sin a man can commit.

The LDS church encourages a relationship with just that the church. When they should be teaching their children to form personal relationships with the lord.

true story: I was out fishing in upstate New York with three of my buddies. We found these golden tablets in the first and I told my buddies, "Hey, how about I read this and make a new Gospel, and you guys can be my witnesses?" So they all said cool, cuz we were all pretty drunk. Then I went into town and told everyone about it. Rounded up some underaged bitches and started marrying them and fucking like rabbits. Things were pretty cool for awhile until their parents chased us out of town with guns. So we went to Ohio, but the same shit happened there. Then we went to Indiana, same story. Fuckers chased us all the way to Utah and finally left us alone cuz there is nothing there. Then we met Howard Hughes and got some cash as his bodyguards and now we're a real religion.

God is capable of all things, and as a result he can defy physical laws to make a boat float. Note that I mean thay specific boat at that specific time.

Magic is all you guys got, but no proof

Not this faggot but do you have proof that it WASN'T magic?
Theists 1
Non-theists 0

you cannot prove that it didn't happen

>religion: the thread

Jack Mormon here in Utah, can confirm. The personal side of the religion is very meaningful to me, but the culture and the people I have difficulties getting along with.

The best source of proof is the Holy Spirit. I urge you to pray to God yourself, and ask him to testify of the truthfulness of his words to you. If you think thats just stupid, what have you to lose? Give him ONE CHANCE. Its all he needs.

ya its funny how the bible list places that were or are verified geographically... the book of mormon? Not a chance. It isn't remotely consistent with the book it is based off of.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

so to believe I must first trick myself into believing?

Ok gnight for real guys. Thank you for spending time in this thread.

A macuahuitl is hardly a sword, user. More closely it is a club with obsidian edges.
While most of the Mormons I know and have met tend towards being kind-hearted people, I do not support the Church in any way. I believe it is an oppressive institution that performs brainwashing on their members and uses social manipulation and pressure to ensure conformity in beliefs. Smith was a con-artist and desired power over anything, and the fact that Monson is considered to be a prophet on earth is viscerally disgusting to me.
Further, Yeshua Ibn Yussuf was probably a real person, but almost certainly was not the Rabbi depicted in the New Testament.

Why do Mormons make this girl cry?

That's all that the bible is for man. Taking knowledge from it you can apply to your own life.
The culture here is completely toxic and elitist. They're now making children who are converts from gay families renounce their parents and their ways before they can join.
Fucking fucked up man.
Exactly so shut the fuck up. Neither side has evidence that can discredit the other fully.
You're just buttmad because some christian girl wouldn't give you any fucky.

Interesting, never thought I would see this type of interaction on the Chan.

I did ask the Holy Spirit/God, & He told me that The Book of Mormon was not His words, but a bunch of lies written by a man who wanted wealth & women.

Ive been in the temple. Been there multiple times. know how things used to be from my Dad. MOst people who did this dont tell thier kids because it obviously causes them to doubt.

You do make several known masonic hand signs. One i find particularly interesting is when they hand the finger touch beyond the palm and into where the wrist is. We are taught this sign signifies where the second nails were driven into the christ.

If you notice in all Mormon depictions of the crucifiction they ALWAYS have each hand double nailed. This is because the skin started to tear thru his flesh and it was to keep him up.
It is called "The second Sign of the Nail"


What we are not taught however that when we make the sign where we close the fist and stick out the thumb and hold the other hand in an upward cupped form. this signifies us having our throat cut from ear to ear. across the chest and across the bottom of the belly. they used to have verbage that described what this meant in the ceremony and you would make the sign with your outstretched thumb across your throat, chest and lower belly. but now they just make you pose with the thumb out and cupped hand.

The aprons they wear are similar in concept to the masonic ones. but they are styled with leaves. seen several different styles. often if you have nicer looking leaves your a bit better off financially and more likely to come by more.

One of my companions was appart of a family that was very very deep into the church and his parents never told him. seriously doubted it. was a total chad who spilled lots of secret stuff most members wouldn't know either. His grandpa was the secretary of one of the old prophets that died ahwile back.

only wish i had a camera to take a pick of my nametag/timestamp

This is so bizarre. I've read the LDS book, I've meditated on the writings and the teachings, I've prayed, asking God directly for tutelage.
There is nothing there. An empty, yawning God-shaped hole which leads me inexorably to the conclusion that God doesn't exist outside of a function of the human mind in situ.
God only exists as a meme and perhaps as an evolutionary strategy, not in any sort of objective position.

Come on tripsman.
One can only use the evidence that one has to form conclusions. There is no good evidence for the existence of God, and scant evidence for the existence of prophets.
Therefore the rational action is to discard belief in God as having insufficient evidence.

>Exactly so shut the fuck up

Repent, faggot: James 1:26

Shit so that's like the part the church that not everyone can go into? Like if you're not baptized in the LDS then you can't go to the tabernacle or something

What i put in this postYear in was when i had Elder Chad as my companion. Absolute spoiled dickhead. Always bragging about hos he was dating the daughter of an apostle and how rich he was. Or all the "super spiritual" hoo ha he learned from hsi grandpa.

That and actually trying to go out there and convince people myself of it. If you just converted then in all honesty your not the problem.

Fucking /thread

going to further specify here. the hand sign with the supped hand and outstretched thumb means you would have made the cut form with the outstretched thumb. and have caught the contents that come out with your cupped hand.

>rational action without evidence
Now don't you feel like a theist?

Here's the reason why the PLAUSIBILITY of god exists. No matter how close we get with physics, astronomy, etc. we still cannot pinpoint exactly how all of this got here.
>big bang
Sure yeah that's the beginning but it still begs the question of how did it get here.
The possibility that some entity placed the initial materials for the big bang to happen seems rational to me.
That way you can have your god created the universe shit and science runs the universe.

It's called clockmaker theory and it's gaining ground.

How is it irrational thinking to believe something provided the initial materials then sat back to watch it go?

>It's called clockmaker theory and it's gaining ground.
Welcome to the 1500s, gentlefags.

If God does not need a creator, we do we?

fuck I meant
>why do we

Now you're just using circular logic.
IE who created god? what created that? what created that?
I can use your same logic.
what was before the big bang?
>This can sort of be answered
How did the materials get there in the first place?
What was before those materials?

Both theist and non-theist theories of creation butt heads because they both have circular logic.
I'm not saying God planned for all this to happen or even that he plays a part in it today. God if they exist is only the initial supplier of materials for the universe to exist.

The Clockmaker theory is very old. It's hardly a new theory and hardly without resistance.

Here are some other theories which do not require a creator-deity, let alone a prophet.

>the universe is merely epi-phenomenon from a function of the quantum foam
this means that our universe is about as important as the rainbow sheen on a bubble in terms of how it was created. Our whole universe might simply be a function of another cause which is only scantly related to the universe itself.
>we are in a simulation
This does require a creator-deity, but an entirely mundane one.
>the big bang was a function of a prior big crunch
this isn't very popular at the moment, but it allows for the 'initial materials' to be present before the big bang
>what we consider the big bang is in fact a mistake we've made with our science
science changes. Our data might be good, but our conclusions may be wrong.

Each of these, I feel, has about the same amount of evidence as a creator-deity, and therefore I'm going to give them similar credence until something more solid comes to my attention.

>the Big Bang happened, therefore God did it
is too much of a leap for me to be interested in making. Gotta keep Occam's Razor working.

> look our ridiculous theory have been disproven inside the context of the universe
> but what about outside of it? Surely there we must be right about a creator starting things
You just won't accept defeat, will you? It's the same lameass tactic religion has been following for centuries.
> turns out it wasn't God who made thunder, but surely he made our planet? No? Surely he made the sun then? No? How about our Galaxy? No? Do you known what made the universe? No? Then it surely must have been him.

That's not what I was saying at all faggot. Your religious brainwashing has taken away your abilities of critical thought. Let me repeat the question.

>If God does not need a creator, why do we

shit my super long reply didnt post for some reason?

YOu have to get whats called a Temple Recomend. Its not taken lightly. You only go there if you are about to go on a mission. Or about to be married. If you were just a convert and got baptized then they normally make you wait a year anyway. Its on a case by case basis with your local bishop for the area.

at the age of 14 you can go for something different. its called "Baptisms for the dead."
where they dunk you in a giant bowl held up by a dozen oxen symbolizing the 12 tribes of isreal. for and behalf of ______ who is dead. in da namada fada.n da sun. and yada yada. likea dozen times each. its a thing they do as a youth activity.

Hate it I live in the state it's known for

I agree with you that there are many just as valid theories to creation and existence.
I'm not arguing in favor of theist or non-theist ideas merely debating the point of "evidence".

Quantum mechanics states that once you measure the outcome of something it changes. Therefore, you can't measure any of the theorems you just listed because they don't have any more or less evidence than creationist theories and as well can't be given any more credibility until science can find a way to prove it.
See above.
We don't.
See above.

Roasted.

So like when mission time comes around people are probably fuck I got Guatemala and others are like nice I'm going to Berlin?

Never base your religion on events that happened recent enough for your grand father to say "Yeah that never happened"

I totally agree with you that scientist can't prove what happened before and so on.
It just seems to me that religion has been mostly wrong about a lot of things that we can now prove through scientific evidence. Therefore I think its unlikely they suddenly made the correct guess. Then again, even a blind chicken ...
Personally I believe our universe is simply defined by mathematics and existence is a side effect. Of course that doesn't exclude the simulation theory.

Im an inactive LDS member. I stop going there cus the marriage thingy. getting married asap cus we need to flood the earth with brats fuck that. Also members look at you like if you were a criminal If you have some deed on you

6th gen (ex)Mormon here.

The Book of Abraham was "translated" from a standard funerary scroll from 300 ad. Which btw had nothing to do with Abraham.

BoM was plagiarized from "View of the Hebrews" and a few other books which came out a few years before it.

When you realized the temple ceremony included a fucking video you should have realized you were in a cult mane.

Sure they perform it with actors in some Temples. But its just as culty. the video should have just made it more obvious.

What's a deed?

action or performance.

by deeds I mean the 'transgrssions' bs and stuff like coffee is bad

>a blind chicken
>a room full of monkeys will eventually write Shakespeare

Religion has been mostly wrong about a lot and that's why I don't put anymore weight in it than I do science.
>science is more prevalent though

There's just too much division and iniquity being committed over the butting of heads of religion and science.
Theists believe non-theists are all degenerates that need a life forced upon them in order for them to be happy and non-theists believe that theists are all crazed lunatics that can't think for themselves.
>This is mostly true though.
It's really the reaction and the "arguments" used to "discredit" the other that are more productive to debate.

What would it take for a non-theist to acknowledge that we all are wondering the same thing just looking for answers in different ways?
Whole church is totally a cult I can testify this. If you're not with them you're against them.
That whole mentality is just wrong and not very christian.

(=ﾟωﾟ)ﾉ

I think you're referring to the LaRouche PAC

Sure. some have a prefrence. Some don't want to leave the US. They say its "inspired" by god but that dosent mean putting 6years of Japanese on your form dosen't more or less guarantee a certain outcome. Lots of guys cant handle asianic languages or slavic ones. Very few Mormons are actually that smart. And if you are smart that means you probably make more money. which makes you more likely to be in leadership. I also think it had a bit to do with how much money your parents have put in with tithing over the years. All of the guys I was paired with were either in the upper middle class or higher, had experience with Japanese, or had family that was important in the church. But the first and last generally correlated. All of the upper leadership in the church is wealthy. The church ownes most of the buisness in Saltlake and Utah. Those apostles and quorum's of the 70 are put in as CEO's and heads of these companies when they are appointed. Publicly tho they don't receive any money by being in the upper leadership. something they will continuously brag about. given that most of the leadership of other religons get paid for being there. Albeit all of the bishops, stake presidents don't get paid. but they are already wealthy to start with or else they couldn't take so much time off to do church work for nothing. My dad is one of those stake presidents.

> monkeys
Got me there.
>What would it take for a non-theist to acknowledge that we all are wondering the same thing just looking for answers in different ways?
As a non theist I happily accept that premise. We're all looking for meaning in/of our lifes or existence.
I wouldn't want to force anyone to give up their religion and I understand that some people feel safer believing in something. But I also would rejoice if people spent less time and effort on something that might be false and focused on what they know is true.
> spent your time farming instead of praying
Also, I only have a real problem with organized religion. I don't care what you or some else believes, cause I'm probably as wrong about it as the next guy.
When that whole premise is used to enrich certain individuals however...
> inb4 scientist also earn money by selling books

>problem with organized religion
Hey hey looks like everyone can agree on something. Organized religion is a scam.
>gibs us tithe so we can give it to poor people (translation: our inner circles bank accounts)

I also agree that people should farm more than pray. Jesus helps those who help themselves he never wanted these sheep to throw themselves at him and expect him to give them everything they want.

I think the main problem is people need to stop using religion to justify their own hate and fear of the unknown.
>we're all scared to die don't use muh bible to beat your kids and tell them it's their fault for things they haven't done yet

The whole abstract idea of sin mixed with the contradictions of sin being allowed for prophet x's personal gain makes for a very toxic ideology that served a purpose once upon a time but now does nothing more than enable people to be ignorant.

I like you user but we're both going to hell if the theists are right.
There's a special place for people like us right next to the pedophiles and the sexy children that seduce them.

Heresy.

/thread

stop knocking on my god damn door